Relatively new to cycling, it amazes me how fast these riders can go..

Comparing to those out there, swimmers and runners, how fast is a TdF cyclist?

is it the sub 4 minute miler? or 4:30? 3:30? Comparing fitness levels.

It just seems like theres a lot of professional cyclists and perhaps its easier to get to that level.

Relatively new to cycling, it amazes me how fast these riders can go..

Comparing to those out there, swimmers and runners, how fast is a TdF cyclist?

is it the sub 4 minute miler? or 4:30? 3:30? Comparing fitness levels.

It just seems like theres a lot of professional cyclists and perhaps its easier to get to that level.

It's like any sport, the best are the best, the top guys have ridiculous genetic talent. I will say this, I've run cross country and played soccer at decent levels and Road racing for me is by far the most physically brutal sport I've ever done. The kicker with road racing is you have to be physically gifted but you have to be able to deal with pain, it's a constant of the sport. From the physical pain of the effort to the inevitable pain of hitting the pavement it's something racers have to deal with, and especially the crashing aspect keeps a lot of people out of the sport.

189 dudes started the tour and there are over 6.7 billion people on earth. its not easy.

there are 750 or so major league baseball players, just in the US (not counting A, AA, and AAA clubs).

im not sure about running and swimming, i dont really do or follow those, but lance ran a sub 3 hour (just barely) marathon.

i know pro cyclists normally ride 1 minute/1k and 3 minutes/1k climb. before you reach the pro level, you've to gp through " minor league levels " racings like local club race, state and on upward.

OP said "comparing those to swimmers and runners."

And, I have no idea. But there are ~20 protour teams, each with <30 riders. That is 500-600 top-level cyclists in the world.

There is a local protour-level cyclist who attends local races when he is not with his team. In europro races, he is a low-average level; he's on his team's B-squad most of the time.

He will race local 1/2 races and crush the field into dust.

I dont think you can't compare sports. But I do believe that these cyclists represent 1% of the world's cyclist, just like in any other sport where the individuals represent 1% of their field. When Lance finished his sub 3 hour marathon, he said it was harder than anything he's ever done. Harder than winning the TDF 7 times?

But in my opinion, if you want to see a more impressive athelete, then look at the Hawaiin Ironman winner Stadler. In 06' he broke the time record for the bike portion averaging 26 mph for 112 miles without a peleton. He then got off his bike in 95 degree temperature and ran a marathon in something like 2 hours and 45 minutes. (I'm sure his actual time is off a few minutes, so don't go off on me anal police).

yeah Hawaiian ironman marathon is tough but i heard that " badwater marathon " is the hardest in the world specially for runner only. it's 125 miles in a 135 degree heat. OUCH!! my brain just fried of thinking the images.

im not sure about running and swimming, i dont really do or follow those, but lance ran a sub 3 hour (just barely) marathon.

Well Lance became a pro triathlete when he was 17... and Lance is, well, Lance.

is it the sub 4 minute miler? or 4:30? 3:30? Comparing fitness levels.

It just seems like theres a lot of professional cyclists and perhaps its easier to get to that level.

I think it's very hard to compare across sports because in cycling there are different traits that can get you in the pros. Obviously they are all, relatively speaking, aerobic animals but not all of them are at the level of say the handful of elite marathoners that can run sub-2:15 marathons. Some of them might be pros because they sprint well but might only have an aerobic ability similar to a 2:30 marathoner.

189 dudes started the tour and there are over 6.7 billion people on earth. its not easy.

there are 750 or so major league baseball players, just in the US (not counting A, AA, and AAA clubs).

im not sure about running and swimming, i dont really do or follow those, but lance ran a sub 3 hour (just barely) marathon.

300 million+ usa residents? and only 1 president of the usa? buhahaha some how this comparison does not compare.

Comparing to those out there, swimmers and runners, how fast is a TdF cyclist?

is it the sub 4 minute miler? or 4:30? 3:30? Comparing fitness levels.

It just seems like theres a lot of professional cyclists and perhaps its easier to get to that level.
You really can't compare apples and oranges. They're all fruit. Highly specialized and trained fruit. We only dream that we could be so juicy and tasty.

Your second remark is statistically unfounded and absurd, as others have pointed out. There aren't many professional windsurfers. Does that therefore mean that windsurfing is harder? There's a lot of professional soccer players across the world. Does that mean it's easy? Of course not.

Yeah. It amazes me how fast those guys are. I know there are guys in my club ride that I have no hope of keeping up with. They aren't even the top level racer in the US. And most of the top US racers aren't as fast as the Eurpoeans. So it amazes me to think of how much faster they are than me. Of course, I may not be a fair comparison - I'm slower than everyone...

Relatively new to cycling, it amazes me how fast these riders can go..

Comparing to those out there, swimmers and runners, how fast is a TdF cyclist?

is it the sub 4 minute miler? or 4:30? 3:30? Comparing fitness levels.

It just seems like theres a lot of professional cyclists and perhaps its easier to get to that level.

If you talk about runners, imagine 45-second 400m sprinters, sub-1:50 800m runners, sub-3:50 milers, sub-13 5K, sub-27 minute 10K and sub-2:07 marathoners all mixing it up together. In addition to uphill specialists, ultramarathoners, and an occasional pure 100m sprinter. Everyone has their specialty, and they are all in one way or the other among the best in the world, and everyone is in the same race!

When the peloton drops McEwen, it's just as if Paul Tergat or Gebrselassie dropped Michael Johnson or ElGuerrouj in a 10K race.

Similarly, Khannouchi can't compete with Asafa Powell in 100m or even 400m race.

"what sport is harder"

there is no such thing. A sport isn't hard. What you do in that sport can be hard. It's only as hard as you make it.

that said lets look at some diffrences...

Triathleates, runners are a no brain sport (for the most part)
hit your VO2 max and keep it steady.

cycling is as much mental as it is physical. Then you toss in a 'team' aspect to it.

But if you want to look at the numbers and see who is toughest...

from what i've seen in terms of VO2 scores, you'll see the highest in Nordic Skiing, next, in cyclists, next in runners. But of coures none of this is worth anything really. The guy with the best set of lungs could be a free diver, rock climber, or even a billards player. All that matters is what you bring to the plate.

right but none them compete in a 135 degree dead valley heat. i remember one time here in Nor Cal, it was 110 degree and i couldn't even walk outside and get my mails. WHEW!! and some " HAVE " to run 125 miles. god bless those runners.

May be the most famous cyclist in the world but not necessarily the best.

What Joe and Jane Public do NOT realize is just how difficult winning a one-day classic is.

For my money, Bettini is every bit as talented - in a different way.

And although Boonen is getting some props in the green jersey, many (even those who claim to be cycling fans) do not realize that he won the Flanders-Roubaix double ( and the Worlds, unless I'm mistaken). This impresses me more than taking yellow in Paris.

Another gripe - the TdF does not give the sprinters enough respect - and those monsters take the biggest risk.

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With regards to how tough cycling is, someone mentioned that nordic skiers have higher VO2. This may or may not be true. However, they simply do not risk the injuries that roadies do - even on a training ride!

A climbing buddy of mine played college basketball and even did some pro kickboxing (before mixed martial arts got so huge). He swears it's not nearly as hardcore as television makes it out to be. There's a ref to stop the fight immediately. There's a doctor ringside. There's your corner to throw in the towel if necessary. He watched the tour during the Lance era (like many non-cycling Americans). His comment went something like, "Holy F#@K! Those dudes have to suffer like dogs for a hundred miles and THEN break bones. At least our rounds were three minutes each."

I can tell you first hand that road racing is indescribably harder than rock climbing in terms of volume of work needed to be competitive as well as the sheer length of time that you suffer as well as the unpredictability of the injuries. If you know what the hell you're doing (rope management, gear placement, etc), rock climbing is relatively safe. Also, when I go to the crags for an all day session, I only spend about 45 to 120 minutes actually climbing; the rest of the time, I'm belaying or resting. When I go on a three to five hour training ride, I am working my D!%K off for almost all that time. And, of course, racing is even harder than that.

There is a local protour-level cyclist who attends local races when he is not with his team. In europro races, he is a low-average level; he's on his team's B-squad most of the time.

He will race local 1/2 races and crush the field into dust.

Didn't Levi enter some Pro/1/2 race in Cali early this season and win by like 38 minutes riding all by himself? That's an indication as to how good these guys are.

To the OP, don't kid yourself that anyone here has any chance to ride the Tour or that it's "easy". There are very select few who are good enough to compete as a pro cyclist at any level. Argy is well on the way though.

and don't get anything wrong, I've known and am still friends with several NFL players, and you can't believe how fast and strong those guys are. I played some pick up ball with them a few times, and I used to think of myself as pretty quick, not blindingly fast, but quick nonetheless, and they made me feel like the slowest most inept guy on the field...AND THEY were just screwing around. It's like that with any sport, the difference with any endurance sport...Tri's, road racing, marathons, nordic skiing or even distance swimming is the pain involved. You HAVE to be able to endure pain in order to even be moderately successful. I would suggest to the OP that if he thinks it is easier to become a pro in cycling that he enter some local races...even Cat 5's, or hell, even a tri, and then tell me how easy it was. And then remember that the pro's are 50 times faster than that. At the olympic tri I just did this last saturday, watching the pro's was breathtaking, those guys are FAST. The first guy swam the 1500 meters in like 16:45, which is SMOKING. Your top amateur tri guys are doing it in like 22-25 minutes, and those are THE TOP amatuers, most people average about 28-40 minutes. So yeah, they're fast.

Relatively new to cycling, it amazes me how fast these riders can go..

Comparing to those out there, swimmers and runners, how fast is a TdF cyclist?

is it the sub 4 minute miler? or 4:30? 3:30? Comparing fitness levels.

It just seems like theres a lot of professional cyclists and perhaps its easier to get to that level.

They are faster, train harder, have supreme dedication, freak genetics, and face it, have tools that most of us do not as far as recovery.

And if you think you are fast and can do it, do what iothers have said and just for grins, go to an unrated event where seniors show up. These are the old folks who "slow down" the higher end young guys.

After you give up your luch and arrive many many minutes later, the bare hard truth shines through. Be the best you can, not what you think you want.

Americans seem to be more prone than most to a major delusion regarding equality, that with enough work and a little luck they could have been a...

The best at any human endeavor are so much better than the average that it is truly hard to comprehend (and in the case of intellect impossible). Even morphology, which is severely restricted by having to pass through the female pelvis at birth, shows a very large range and traits without such hard physical contraints can vary even more dramatically.

At the dawn of the TdF it was certainly possible for Joe Kegger to compete simply because it was so new there were only a few dozen participants worldwide. But in modern sports where virtually the entire world population is selected from the pros are the freaks of the freaks of the freaks of nature (and with quite a large helping of pharmaceutical nurture on top of it too).

Americans seem to be more prone than most to a major delusion regarding equality, that with enough work and a little luck they could have been a...
Maybe so, but American optimism's paid other dividends, although that's besides the point.

Apparently you don’t have to be a Pro to compete in the TdF as alluded by Levi Leipheimer in a post VS interview of today’s stage. He was shocked that upon his groups chase [so disorganized and fragmented he is tv captured lecturing a couple of riders to line up and work] in the last few K he has one rider tell him ‘he does not have it’. Levi said in the post interview that ‘these guys are supposed to be Pros’. So…I suppose it’s a matter of perspective that of which defines a true Pro. :rolleyes:

One thing I believe that everyone failed to mention was luck. It is so true that the guys competing at this level are freaks of freaks of freaks. They have the natural ability first, then the dedication to the sport, then the tools and people to get them into contention. But there is also the luck aspect. Managing to stay away from life-threatening accident or illness, having a supportive family to back them, and the ability to overcome the everyday distractions that curtail a lot of the very best athletes into lives of obscurity.

To become a TDF level rider, I think it's one of those "stars-aligning" type things. To be a contender to win it the TDF....well, let's just say that the odds are 1, 2, or 3 in 6 Billion.....

To get more pro, I would suggest the Purina Hi Pro Diet.

One thing I believe that everyone failed to mention was luck. It is so true that the guys competing at this level are freaks of freaks of freaks. They have the natural ability first, then the dedication to the sport, then the tools and people to get them into contention. But there is also the luck aspect. Managing to stay away from life-threatening accident or illness, having a supportive family to back them, and the ability to overcome the everyday distractions that curtail a lot of the very best athletes into lives of obscurity.

To become a TDF level rider, I think it's one of those "stars-aligning" type things. To be a contender to win it the TDF....well, let's just say that the odds are 1, 2, or 3 in 6 Billion.....

You forgot about the luck that got them into contact with the sport, there's more than one story about a pro getting into cycling after they had an accident and were adviced to hop on a bike as part of the rehabilitation. There's a lot of would-be contenders out there in terms of natural ability and most of them never get to see a serious roadbike in real life...

One thing I believe that everyone failed to mention was luck. It is so true that the guys competing at this level are freaks of freaks of freaks. They have the natural ability first, then the dedication to the sport, then the tools and people to get them into contention. But there is also the luck aspect. Managing to stay away from life-threatening accident or illness, having a supportive family to back them, and the ability to overcome the everyday distractions that curtail a lot of the very best athletes into lives of obscurity.

To become a TDF level rider, I think it's one of those "stars-aligning" type things. To be a contender to win it the TDF....well, let's just say that the odds are 1, 2, or 3 in 6 Billion.....

And opportunity. The opportunities in the US which would allow one to turn Euro pro are very limited.

300 million+ usa residents? and only 1 president of the usa? buhahaha some how this comparison does not compare.

http://www.buckfush.com/images/bush_Stay_the_Course.jpg

If you talk about runners, imagine 45-second 400m sprinters, sub-1:50 800m runners, sub-3:50 milers, sub-13 5K, sub-27 minute 10K and sub-2:07 marathoners all mixing it up together. In addition to uphill specialists, ultramarathoners, and an occasional pure 100m sprinter. Everyone has their specialty, and they are all in one way or the other among the best in the world, and everyone is in the same race!

When the peloton drops McEwen, it's just as if Paul Tergat or Gebrselassie dropped Michael Johnson or ElGuerrouj in a 10K race.

Similarly, Khannouchi can't compete with Asafa Powell in 100m or even 400m race.

This is a very good analogy, although I would throw out the 400 meter runners and ultra marathoners and would put the 800 times around 1:45. You could also say that it is very much like a high level cross country race, however internationally cross country is no where near what it once was.

I have done both sports seriously for 25 years, I alternated seasons when I was a kid then bounced back and forth in college. Possibly because of this I did not get that far in either, 32 minute 10k and about the same level on the bike. Plenty of 90 miles weeks and 25 hour weeks. I found that running was harder on your body but overall cycling was much harder. The impact side of running limits your ability to push yourself to the limit every day, you get a stress fracture etc. With cycling you can push yourself close to the limit everyday, especially when you are young.

we americans might be delusional with respect to the idea that hard work and dedication can overcome much but consider that the ability to dream at least gives you a chance. if at the dawning of an idea, that being a professional bike racer, some half informed but respected bozo(you know they are out there in droves) simply destroyed the dream by saying that the chances, due to some percieved physical limtation, was not long but nonexistant would be a disservice to the hope of any competitior. true, these people are a slim sliver of any group but the beginning is hope and an unbelievable capacity for work, pain, and the sacrifice of almost anything else in your life. the us hopeful faces many more obstacles than those in european countries(no idea about NZ, aust. , SA etc) little in the way of a program to train and promote talented ameteurs, little infrastructure for an experienced pro to mentor a hopeful, hit or miss location of scientific individual training, and frankly what appears to be a healthy dose of predjudice against us riders by the europeans

This is a very good analogy, although I would throw out the 400 meter runners and ultra marathoners and would put the 800 times around 1:45. You could also say that it is very much like a high level cross country race, however internationally cross country is no where near what it once was.

I have done both sports seriously for 25 years, I alternated seasons when I was a kid then bounced back and forth in college. Possibly because of this I did not get that far in either, 32 minute 10k and about the same level on the bike. Plenty of 90 miles weeks and 25 hour weeks. I found that running was harder on your body but overall cycling was much harder. The impact side of running limits your ability to push yourself to the limit every day, you get a stress fracture etc. With cycling you can push yourself close to the limit everyday, especially when you are young.

As a non-impact sport, cycling is really unique (and perhaps highly unnatural) in a sense that our bodies weren't really designed to sustain a condition so close to aerobic limit for so long (many hours, day after day). As scavangers, humans have evolved to be exceptionally good at running - better in many ways than dogs and even horses, if you include ultra distances. But impact factor of running is a bit like those speed locks on U-Haul trucks that don't let you go above 60 mph or whatever - you can train 100 miles a week, which translates to about 10 hours a week or less for a trained athlete. This is a relatively small amount of time investment, and a lot of it at relatively modest pace/effort.
Trying to go above 10 hours will put most people at a risk of injury. I personally have done 100+ mile weeks, but the diminishing returns vs. risk of injury make it a delicate balance.
In cycling, however, one could easily keep putting in 20, 30, 40 hours a week and keep training aerobic system without much physical breakdown.

Finally, as to Nordic skiers vs. rowers vs. bikers vs. runners VO2 max tests - it's comparing apples and oranges, since VO2 is measured while athletes are performing at their sports, and use of more muscle groups will lead to higher VO2max. This doesn't mean that Nordic skiers are more talented than runners or cyclists - in fact I would expect skiers to score (VO2 max) much lower on the bike compared to cyclists, and some cyclists or runners can probably increase their VO2max while tested in skiing VO2max tests, especially if they train to get better at skiing. A lot of it this is highly sport-specific.

Relatively new to cycling, it amazes me how fast these riders can go..

Comparing to those out there, swimmers and runners, how fast is a TdF cyclist?

is it the sub 4 minute miler? or 4:30? 3:30? Comparing fitness levels.

It just seems like theres a lot of professional cyclists and perhaps its easier to get to that level.

Just another angle here... these are NOT the 189 best riders in the world. This is the best, biggest race but there's a special blend that occurs.

First you have to be in a team that gets selected. The teams need to be good and have a good reputation. It's a French race so it pays to be French and in a french team.

More than half the riders are slave/workers/domestiques. They are role players so they have to fit in a role in the team and help the team leader win. So, they might not be the fastest rider but they might have a good fit. A team of 20+ is shaved down based on fit.

There's other big tours like Spain and Italy and no one can win all three. Thus some other heavy hitters are saved for the other tours. For example, Di Luca, Simoni, Cunego are better than half these TDF riders but they do another tour.

fc

OP said "comparing those to swimmers and runners."

And, I have no idea. But there are ~20 protour teams, each with <30 riders. That is 500-600 top-level cyclists in the world.

There is a local protour-level cyclist who attends local races when he is not with his team. In europro races, he is a low-average level; he's on his team's B-squad most of the time.

He will race local 1/2 races and crush the field into dust.

A while back, didn't Armstrong did a local crit on a last minute decision? don't know about the result of that race but I don't think he won. Of course he wasn't really trying (don't want to risk a season for a silly local crit). Maybe he wasn't even in top form.
But it's not like a TdF pro can just ride away from a pack and win.

Just another angle here... these are NOT the 189 best riders in the world. This is the best, biggest race but there's a special blend that occurs.

First you have to be in a team that gets selected. The teams need to be good and have a good reputation. It's a French race so it pays to be French and in a french team.

More than half the riders are slave/workers/domestiques. They are role players so they have to fit in a role in the team and help the team leader win. So, they might not be the fastest rider but they might have a good fit. A team of 20+ is shaved down based on fit.

There's other big tours like Spain and Italy and no one can win all three. Thus some other heavy hitters are saved for the other tours. For example, Di Luca, Simoni, Cunego are better than half these TDF riders but they do another tour.

fc

yup. It depends on how to define what "best" is. If Marty Nothstein were to race against Boonen/McEwen/Zabel on the track sprint, I'll put money on Marty any day.

189 dudes started the tour and there are over 6.7 billion people on earth. its not easy.
Thats all well and good, but how many of those 6.7 billion have ever even thought about racing as a pro? Most people wouldn't even think to try, in fact there are a good number that don't even know cycling exists as a pro sport.

This is just a messed up way of looking at things, not everyone wants to be a pro cyclist, just as not everyone wants to be a doctor, lawyer, whatever.

My whole, probably missguided point is that the talent pool for cycling dosen't extend to 6.7billion people. Your probably looking at more like 50million, IF that.