10 seconds?

In a sport that's in danger of losing all but its mall fans -- people that would be shopping in their local mall if an American weren't in contention -- it's really frustrating to witness a rider as outspoken as LL is [read his comments on doping] cheating the way he did during Stage 8 on 7/15/07. I've watched every available second of the T de F since 1985 and I've never actually SEEN a worse case of cheating in all those years.

To be fair, there are definitely other sports that have been badly damaged by the infusion of the US dollar over the years, but I can't think of another, based as much on INDIVIDUAL effort, that’s as suspect as cycling is. As an American cyclist who truly believes in the better man taking the day, I must say that the tour organizers have missed yet another great opportunity to treat an ailing sport. By not severely sanctioning a high-profile competitor who was actually filmed while receiving mechanical assistance -- during a climb no less -- the organizers have effectively endorsed the wrong message: the individual is bigger than the sport itself. If I believed in greed-based motor sports, I'd of become a NASCAR fan ...

A small penalty is better than none at all, as was the previous case. ten seconds can also be significant.

You must have missed Vino being pushed by someone in his team car over and over again.

Part of the sport and not even cheating, just a small infraction along the lines of an offside in football or a time clock violation in basketball. Relax and enjoy.

I've watched every available second of the T de F since 1985 and I've never actually SEEN a worse case of cheating in all those years.

You obviously not watched every available second since 1985 if that was the worst case you've seen. Clearly you missed the 1996 Tour. In more recent action, did you missed Vino drafting the team car <i>forever</i> after he had burned through his team after his crash the other day?

...the tour organizers have missed yet another great opportunity to treat an ailing sport...

I'll borrow a word from one of the replies above to write that you're clearly missing the point. Come up with whatever media-created name you wish -- The Professor, The Badger, The Chicken or even Vino -- it's really irrelevant. Put very simply, if the people organizing and/or representing the largest event in cycling don't wish to see this great sport go the way of the NBA, they'll punish whomever they catch cheating.

Once again, the sport is bigger than the individual. The personal references I've read here are all about individualism, an all too common trait of the modern day. If anyone would care to think a little less about certain individuals and a bit more about the sport itself, perhaps this might be understood.

It's also worth noting that fans having difficulty in comparing, and subsequently making an honest assessment of, the receipt of assistance from a man hanging out of a car during a climb with a rider drafting a car on a flat doesn't bode very well for the sport either ... Hey, I heard that they're having a clearance sale on Floyd posters down at the mall!

You obviously not watched every available second since 1985 if that was the worst case you've seen. Clearly you missed the 1996 Tour. In more recent action, did you missed Vino drafting the team car <i>forever</i> after he had burned through his team after his crash the other day?


To add a little to that; at least levi's incident was after a mechanical...vino did it after a crash. Obviously he deserved a penalty, but the UCI should be penalizing teams accordingly.. I am sure it happens all the time when the camera isn't on after a mechanical, ect...it was LL so the camera was right on him. Of course if that was Lance he would have been DQ'd

cheating? The car maneuver? What a load of crap.

when you have a mechanical or crash, it's expected that you use some assistance to get back on. Levi used just a bit too much, and that's why he was hit with a 2x50 CHF fine and a 10-second penalty. It's all he deserved.

To be fair, there are definitely other sports that have been badly damaged by the infusion of the US dollar over the years, . ......

Are you saying that it is American money that is responsible for the "win at all costs" attititude that drives riders to cheat. Or that it is just the case for Levi.

Or am I missing your point entirely??

10 seconds?

In a sport that's in danger of losing all but its mall fans -- people that would be shopping in their local mall if an American weren't in contention -- it's really frustrating to witness a rider as outspoken as LL is [read his comments on doping] cheating the way he did during Stage 8 on 7/15/07. I've watched every available second of the T de F since 1985 and I've never actually SEEN a worse case of cheating in all those years.

To be fair, there are definitely other sports that have been badly damaged by the infusion of the US dollar over the years, but I can't think of another, based as much on INDIVIDUAL effort, that’s as suspect as cycling is. As an American cyclist who truly believes in the better man taking the day, I must say that the tour organizers have missed yet another great opportunity to treat an ailing sport. By not severely sanctioning a high-profile competitor who was actually filmed while receiving mechanical assistance -- during a climb no less -- the organizers have effectively endorsed the wrong message: the individual is bigger than the sport itself. If I believed in greed-based motor sports, I'd of become a NASCAR fan ...

please do.

10 seconds?

In a sport that's in danger of losing all but its mall fans -- people that would be shopping in their local mall if an American weren't in contention -- it's really frustrating to witness a rider as outspoken as LL is [read his comments on doping] cheating the way he did during Stage 8 on 7/15/07. I've watched every available second of the T de F since 1985 and I've never actually SEEN a worse case of cheating in all those years.

To be fair, there are definitely other sports that have been badly damaged by the infusion of the US dollar over the years, but I can't think of another, based as much on INDIVIDUAL effort, that’s as suspect as cycling is. As an American cyclist who truly believes in the better man taking the day, I must say that the tour organizers have missed yet another great opportunity to treat an ailing sport. By not severely sanctioning a high-profile competitor who was actually filmed while receiving mechanical assistance -- during a climb no less -- the organizers have effectively endorsed the wrong message: the individual is bigger than the sport itself. If I believed in greed-based motor sports, I'd of become a NASCAR fan ...

If you' had really watched "every second" of Tour coverage since 1985, you would've seen the same scenario acted out countless times.

Nice first post, btw.

Well, if that was the "Worst" violation of the rules you've seen and you have been watching every second since 1985, I'm guessing you are "Blind" because I've only been watching for about 10 years and not every second at that and have seen similar situations happen pretty much every year.

Usually they try and hide it a little better as the rider grabs onto the car and the "Mechanic" hangs out the window basically doing nothing to the bike until they get back to the Peleton.

LL received what was an adequate penalty for what they did. Vino wasn't penalized anything and his was every bit as blatant a violation as LL's was.

Being your 2nd post every on RBR, I'm guessing you either don't like Team Discovery, LL or Americans in general and this post was more directed at them in general than an actual violation that took place during the race.

If you have a problem with the rules or enforcement of the rules, send an e-mail to the Tour directors, I'm sure they will take your criticism seriously.

What bugs me most is the mistranslation that has given Hinault the nickname "badger". Blaireau has a double meaning, badger, and made of the hairs of the badger: the shaving brush. He was called "The Shaving Brush" because of his unruly hairdo.

Blaireau:
http://www.private-avenue.com/images/rep_articles/moyennes/t8._150x150.jpg

Blaireau:
http://paternoster.canalblog.com/albums/bernard_hinault/m-hinault_vimoutiers.jpg

See?

was that supposed to be a joke? Hinault owned a stuffed badger and used to groom it for media interviews.

So, if it's cheating to use a team car after a mechanical to get a little help, which that wasn't-fine and time penalty issued, get a push up hill for a sprinter (Super Mario in Georgia). it must be okay to attack in the feed zone or after a crash. I've always understood that a sportsman(woman) wouldn't want to lose because his opponent had mechanical difficulties. Sorry, I have to agree with the group, Fine, Time penalty and let's race.

I have to agree that Levi's "help" was a bit undignified for a rider of his stature. I don't know how fast the team car was going, but if Levi wore a rug it would have been flapping out the back of his helmet. IMHO, drafting behind the caravan for a longer time period under your own power just isn't the same as being flung back to the peleton at whatever speed they were going.

10 second penalty seemed light to me, too.

Finally, OP, thanks for the education on the root of all evil in the world. I'll ask the misses tonight if we can burn all of our dirty, green american $. Feel free to forward any dirty, green amerian dollars to us and we'll burn it, too. Oh, wait. Scratch that last comment, we'd just spend it on NASCAR or NBA tickets.

Bill

10 seconds?

As an American cyclist who truly believes in the better man taking the day, I must say that the tour organizers have missed yet another great opportunity to treat an ailing sport. ...

You're not an American....you're a troll trying to start some ****

I've only been seriously paying attention to the tour for three years and I know that the sort of help Levi received is generally accepted. Now Levi and Disco might have pushed the limit of leniency.

Even Phil and Paul noted that it was a calculated risk. They knew the penalty if they got caught, and they also new the cost of Levi not making back to the peleton.

If anything I would say that Levi probably got it worse than most just because of his high profile and amount of TV time.

Its funny, the judges seem to make decisions as they please. The water bottle pass is used by all the riders, you see it in every stage. You see riders who fall off the back, crash, mechanical get slipstreams from the cars and yes the occasional seat adjustment. Yet you only see fines and penalties when they "see it" and decide not to look the other way. I think velonews show who has been fined for the day. Levi did what most all riders would do in that situation. I see the fine as just. Hopefully it wont be the deciding factor.

There is so much cheating in the tour....I would focus on the big stuff before taking it out on Levi for that move. It wasn't really that big of deal.

Nice way to make an entrance, Troll...

Rider assitance has been going on for a LONG time in the tour...rider has trouble (for mechanical or medical reasons) help him up to the last group. Now high GC riders get a lot of camera time no matter where they are on the course so they have to give some time of penalty if it's noticed.

Eugene Christophe was once penalized heavily for having a boy pump the bellows of a forge while he fixed his own fork.

(Back when Tour stages were over 400km long and had to be ridden on fixed gear bikes with absolutely no assistance)

10 seconds?

In a sport that's in danger of losing all but its mall fans -- people that would be shopping in their local mall if an American weren't in contention -- it's really frustrating to witness a rider as outspoken as LL is [read his comments on doping] cheating the way he did during Stage 8 on 7/15/07. I've watched every available second of the T de F since 1985 and I've never actually SEEN a worse case of cheating in all those years.

To be fair, there are definitely other sports that have been badly damaged by the infusion of the US dollar over the years, but I can't think of another, based as much on INDIVIDUAL effort, that’s as suspect as cycling is. As an American cyclist who truly believes in the better man taking the day, I must say that the tour organizers have missed yet another great opportunity to treat an ailing sport. By not severely sanctioning a high-profile competitor who was actually filmed while receiving mechanical assistance -- during a climb no less -- the organizers have effectively endorsed the wrong message: the individual is bigger than the sport itself. If I believed in greed-based motor sports, I'd of become a NASCAR fan ...
Saaaay.... Is this.....Greg Lemond?? :skep:

Hmmm, over 20 replies ... Did I accidentally stumble into the Leipheimer family web page? :) I've only read the first three replies, but, considering the general trend here, most of you must've grown up with LL.

Well, I'm merely a person that's been following the T de F for many years and thought this venue a logical place to share one's thoughts with others that follow pro cycling. Other than actually seeing some of the greats of the sport at certain Tour stages I was fortunate enough to attend, I don't actually know any of them. I find that this allows one to remain impartial and, more importantly, to develop a love for the sport itself.

So, instead of being blinded by an emotional allegiance to a media-generated persona I'll never know, I think I'll stick to thinking about the Tour ... Once again, it shouldn't really matter who the rider is. If the guy's caught cheating, a genuine example should be made of him. Monetary sanctions will effect certain riders more than others, so, obviously, this is not a consistent way to handle cheating. Disqualifications and/or long-term suspensions, on the other hand, have teeth! In other words, taking away the privilege of participating in the greatest event in cycling is the only way to handle cheats. After all, the event itself will live on. The riders, on the other hand, will always come and go.

In the end, I can only hope that my thoughts provoked a few of you to drop your joysticks and to think about the sport for a minute or two. If, on the other hand, I interrupted some of you from your latest "jack" while playing Grand Theft Auto, you have my apology. You guys stick with watching lots of television commercials, worshiping whichever individual Madison Avenue tells you to and living the creed: Get Rich or Die Tryin.'

Hmmm, over 20 replies ... Did I accidentally stumble into the Leipheimer family web page? :) I've only read the first three replies, but, considering the general trend here, most of you must've grown up with LL.

Not only have you failed to read this thread, you have clearly failed to read much of anything else on this board if you think there are a bunch of LL fans here.

If you are going to troll, try to be better at it at least. :rolleyes: