How ticked off would you be if you were Menchov? The team leader had to take a back seat to a rider that has been viewed as more a member of a team than a team member. Now that rider is out of the tour because he lied to the team management and he is too far out of contention because he had to ride in support of the yellow jersey.

What about the Boogieman? His last tour and all his work crumbles like this.

FYI - he just abandoned....wonder why....hmmmm?

I wonder if he rode just to have a chance to talk to the peloton?

This is too bad. I thought Rabo did a fantastic job in support of Raz. Dekker and Boogerd especially were amazing and, to me, the tempo riding that these guys put in was one of the highlights of the race so far. Menchov selflessly took the back seat when Raz got the yellow. I really feel bad for Mench and Boogerd because of the opportunity lost. Dekker as well but he's young enough and good enough to see more chances in future.

How ticked off would you be if you were Menchov? The team leader had to take a back seat to a rider that has been viewed as more a member of a team than a team member. Now that rider is out of the tour because he lied to the team management and he is too far out of contention because he had to ride in support of the yellow jersey.

What about the Boogieman? His last tour and all his work crumbles like this.

This is what I wrote to Eurosport...

"I sure hope Menchov had a good reason for abandoning! If he just quite because he didn't feel like riding anymore, than that would be awful and Rabobank should sack him for that. He is paid big bucks to ride. Many days I wish I could stay home from work even though I'm healthy. If Menchov says he has too much on his mind to continue, than he should change his diapers and find another line of work. There are many riders at home who wish they could be in his spot at the Tour. Just look ask any rider from Unibet. The show must go on not only in Hollywood, but in France as well!"

Kyle in Italy

They told all the riders individually they were free to go if they wanted to.

Who told what riders? If it was Rabo to it's riders, then it should have been done before the start and not during. What a dirtbag (Menchov)....

rabobank told the riders they understood if they did not want to continue. last night boogerd wanted to pack it all in and go home right then and there. he stuck it out and started, and it looks like will finish, todays stage.

im not gonna rag on menchov. i can see where he would be "whats the point?" right now. it doesnt look good for the leader to bow out, but the man was given the option.

maybe he is hoping he can rest up and go to the vuelta?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jul07/jul26news4

Tour de France organizers have said that the remaining Rabobank riders are welcome to stay in the race, and the team management has said that it will leave that decision up to the individual riders. But Michael Boogerd said last night that he wanted to go home.

"To ride for four more days in the Tour for nobody? I won't do that," he said, according to Sporza. "I don't know what I should think of all this. I want to go home immediately.

"And what do you think it will be like in the criteriums?" Boogerd continued, according to HLN.be. "At Boxmeer you come to the start and the announce will say, 'Look, here we have Michael Boogerd, who rode for Rasmussen for weeks.' I find it terrible."

"I don't want to think about it. This is a disaster, man. I hadn't held it for possible."

Boogerd has already announced that he will retire at the end of this season.

The Rabobank team is staying in the same hotel as the teams Euskaltel, Caisse d'Epargne and CSC, and while those three showed signs of live Thursday morning with the mechanics running around and getting the bikes ready for the stage, the Rabobank area was suspiciously quiet.

What a dirtbag (Menchov)....
Come on. He killed himself yesterday for absolutely nothing. Cut him some slack.

This is what I wrote to Eurosport...

"I sure hope Menchov had a good reason for abandoning! If he just quite because he didn't feel like riding anymore, than that would be awful and Rabobank should sack him for that. He is paid big bucks to ride. Many days I wish I could stay home from work even though I'm healthy. If Menchov says he has too much on his mind to continue, than he should change his diapers and find another line of work. There are many riders at home who wish they could be in his spot at the Tour. Just look ask any rider from Unibet. The show must go on not only in Hollywood, but in France as well!"

Kyle in Italy


Umm, they read that on the air. They at least had a decent response from what I remember.

This is what I wrote to Eurosport...

"I sure hope Menchov had a good reason for abandoning! If he just quite because he didn't feel like riding anymore, than that would be awful and Rabobank should sack him for that. He is paid big bucks to ride. Many days I wish I could stay home from work even though I'm healthy. If Menchov says he has too much on his mind to continue, than he should change his diapers and find another line of work. There are many riders at home who wish they could be in his spot at the Tour. Just look ask any rider from Unibet. The show must go on not only in Hollywood, but in France as well!"

Kyle in Italy

He walked off the job. That's immediate grounds for termination. No questions asked. If I was paying his paycheck to ride in the Tour then he better get on his bike and ride.

Rabo gave the team the option of starting or not...Menchov buried himself for Rasmussen yesterday. I don't blame him for calling it a day.

Umm, they read that on the air.

Yeah...I know. I wrote it to them. Look at the first 4 letters of my user name...

Who told what riders? If it was Rabo to it's riders, then it should have been done before the start and not during. What a dirtbag (Menchov)....
Dirtbag? Name-calling certainly elevates you above the likes of guys like him in my book.

Personally, I've had disheartening & bad days at the office. I've gone home early on some of those occasions, but I've returned to work another day. So, I'm a dirtbag by your definition?

He walked off the job. That's immediate grounds for termination. No questions asked. If I was paying his paycheck to ride in the Tour then he better get on his bike and ride.


He was given the option of starting the day or to not start the day by the team.

AFter riding a few, he decided otherwise. BFD.

A day at the office compared to the world's most watched sport (aside from soccer) are two different things...and I'm sure people didn't fly in and drive from all around the world to watch you at your office. I doubt you have fans cheering for you at work as well...How about quiter?

He walked off the job. That's immediate grounds for termination. No questions asked.
Termination is not nearly enough. He should have to return any pay he has received from Rabobank. And they should publicly flog him.

i can see where he would be "whats the point?" right now.

How about going for a stage victory in a break away? Are his legs broken? What's the point? How about showing the fans that came from all around the world to support him that he at least appreciates them...

A day at the office compared to the world's most watched sport (aside from soccer) are two different things...and I'm sure people didn't fly in and drive from all around the world to watch you at your office. I doubt you have fans cheering for you at work as well...How about quiter?
Analogies to our own jobs aside, from what I understand, his employer said he could go home after he and the team was deceived. Menchov has nothing to ride for: he won’t win a stage or get a good placing. Sure, he can tough it out, but he was bamboozled. You’re being overly harsh.

How about going for a stage victory in a break away? Are his legs broken? What's the point? How about showing the fans that came from all around the world to support him that he at least appreciates them...

He burned his legs out riding for Rass. There is not much left in the tank. While I would like to see a Rabo rider salvage something out of this, I don't think it will happen.

Kudos to Rabo for pulling the chicken out. Kudos to allow their riders to decide if they feel like finishing or not.

O.k. I apologize to all those who were offended by my remarks, but it's the way I feel and all of this madness going on has gotten a lot of us pro cycling fans feed up and it's been building year after year after year. As far as Menchov goes...I don't know...maybe it's just me. If I knew that I had fans and supporters out along the course that sacrificed their time and money to come out and watch me, then I don't think quiting would even be an option. Just the chance to ride in to Paris with all of the crowds cheering should not be taken for granted as well. Just to be in the peleton is a privilege the way I see it, but who knows. No statement has been released yet as to why he quit. Could be that he just had a hang nail or something...

Just the chance to ride in to Paris with all of the crowds cheering should not be taken for granted as well. Just to be in the peleton is a privilege the way I see it.

I see it that way too. But I also know what it's like to be lied to by someone that I burned the candles at both ends for.

The team leadership gave the members the choice. Ride or go home. No hard feelings.

And it's pretty easy to say that the show must go on until you're 50K into a 200K ride and you're hot and tired and completely demoralized.

If it was right for him to get off the bike, it was right for him. You'll never know how he feels.

If I knew that I had fans and supporters out along the course that sacrificed their time and money to come out and watch me, then I don't think quiting would even be an option. Just the chance to ride in to Paris with all of the crowds cheering should not be taken for granted as well.Seriously. We must teach these guys that the Tour de France is not about them, it is about us. If we tell them to jump, they better ask us "how high?", damnit.

I see it that way too. But I also know what it's like to be lied to by someone that I burned the candles at both ends for.

The team leadership gave the members the choice. Ride or go home. No hard feelings.

And it's pretty easy to say that the show must go on until you're 50K into a 200K ride and you're hot and tired and completely demoralized.

If it was right for him to get off the bike, it was right for him. You'll never know how he feels.

I would quit too if I was Menchov - what's the point?
I also strongly suspect there's more to the story than just lying about being in Italy. The Rabobank people knew about the lying early on, but kept telling Menchov - Denny, sacrifice yourself for Rasmussen, we need you to take one for the team. Now that his GC hopes are in the toilet, the team pulls Rasmussen out.

Thanks for nothing, Dennis. Just keep on riding.

Anyone who compares riding Tour de France to just another day in the office misses the point entirely. Go for a 6 hour ride today. Repeat for three weeks. Get back to me with your results. Remember - no quitting is allowed during this silly exercise...
:rolleyes:

Funny thing is he was supposed to be the leader in the first place. MMM this is tuff cause I'm not him but put your emotions aside. I think dude should have risen to the challenge and show he's a real leader and finish what he started for fans sake no matter what his standings be. Even if the guy comes in under the time limit. Look at Moreau. Dude let down his whole country as well as himself and is still fighting to finish everyday.

Good takes on VeloNews: http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/details/articles/12947.0.html

"The Tour field was further reduced in Thursday's feed zone, when Rabobank's Denis Menchov decided he'd had enough, climbing off his bike and into the team car. The Russian had come to France as his team's designated leader, but after faltering in the Alps - a fact Rasmussen callously pointed out, chiding his teammate for not "getting his ass over the Galibier" - Menchov faithfully slipped into what turned out to be a wasted supporting role.

"This wasn't Menchov's first brush with doping disappointment. In 2005, he was awarded the Vuelta a España title only after Liberty Seguros rider Roberto Heras tested positive for EPO."

Anyone who compares riding Tour de France to just another day in the office misses the point entirely. Go for a 6 hour ride today. Repeat for three weeks. Get back to me with your results. Remember - no quitting is allowed during this silly exercise...
No, you missed the point of my analogy. Mine was a point of morale, somehow, you interpreted the analogy mechanically. Metaphor much?

I would quit too if I was Menchov - what's the point?

How about just one of your fans standing out their under the heat for hours probably camped for a day or two?

If that isn't enough let's go with pride, unwillingness to fail or give up, intestinal fortitude, honor for family/friends/team/country, so on and so forth, but maybe that's just the military in me that's talking. I guess they don't instill the drive to never quit no matter what you are facing in cycling camp. Although I heard CSC has a military based training camp. "I SAID ATTENTION JENS!!! DROP DOWN AND GIVE ME 20":)

My thought is that the Rabbobank team should have sat down and said "anyone else doing anything that now or in the future will come back to haunt us, you are free to go now". Then, I would make a readable patch that could be worn on their jersey that says something to the effect of "we are clean and proud to ride". Then continue the race riding in solidarity of each other and see how much support from both fellow racers and the public would be generated. It ain't gonna happen, but it would be interesting to see.

My thought is that the Rabbobank team should have sat down and said "anyone else doing anything that now or in the future will come back to haunt us, you are free to go now". Then, I would make a readable patch that could be worn on their jersey that says something to the effect of "we are clean and proud to ride". Then continue the race riding in solidarity of each other and see how much support from both fellow racers and the public would be generated. It ain't gonna happen, but it would be interesting to see.

That patch thing would actually be nice. Really. Too bad I doubt it'd happen though.

That patch is not a half bad idea. I would have it that the peloton votes on who gets to wear it. That gets the riders policing themselves and I think there's enough of them ready for it.

That patch is not a half bad idea. I would have it that the peloton votes on who gets to wear it. That gets the riders policing themselves and I think there's enough of them ready for it.

A patch...just like the anti-doping charter. Rasumussen, Moreni, etc. would be the first ones lined up to sign on.

That patch thing would actually be nice. Really. Too bad I doubt it'd happen though.
I think the patch would be akin to the people that wore Livestrong Bracelets while SMOKING!

they already wear patches...
T patches on their balls, that's what's got them into this mess....

with a RFID chip in it so the team management can keep track of the whereabouts of their riders. :D

There are some strange people here with too much time on their hands LOL. My original thought was for the clean riders (if there are any) to show support of a drug free tour, and gain support of both the peleton and the public for a reversal of recent year antics. If they had done that today, I wouldn't have been surprised if the peleton let the remains of the clean Rabbobank team cross the line first holding hands (a kumbaya moment for sure). I love the sport too much to see it dragged down any more. Let's hope for change.

with a RFID chip in it so the team management can keep track of the whereabouts of their riders. :D


...maybe UCI can hire some veterinarians to insert those chips under the skin of the riders too...:rolleyes:...

...course Tyler would have switched Tugboats chip for his...:D:D:D

Kyler,

You must be kidding. If I was working for a team like that, and I was giving up my chance at winning the Tour so that a teammate could win, and my boss all of a sudden pulled the plug on the teammate I sacrificed my Tour for, you can bet that I would be pissed. As a rider, I would be pissed that the team didn't pull Rasmussen before the Tour started. As a rider I would be pissed that they made me support Rasmussen when he was in yellow, that it destroyed my chance of winning the Tour, and that they yanked him after I did all that work. Please, Rabobank did the right thing in allowing the riders to choose whether or not to continue riding.

Me, I would be thinking about quitting the team. Yeah, it sucks for the fans, but think about being in Menchov's shoes. It sucks for him too.

At the end of the day, I think Rabobank did the right thing in getting rid of Rasmussen and in allowing the riders to decide whether or not they wanted to remain in the race. Rabobank did the honorable thing, and I don't blame Menchov for not wanting to ride anymore. I don't think he has a clear enough head to continue racing right now, or enough motivation either.

You must be kidding. If I was working for a team like that, and I was giving up my chance at winning the Tour so that a teammate could win, and my boss all of a sudden pulled the plug on the teammate I sacrificed my Tour for, you can bet that I would be pissed. As a rider, I would be pissed that the team didn't pull Rasmussen before the Tour started. As a rider I would be pissed that they made me support Rasmussen when he was in yellow, that it destroyed my chance of winning the Tour, and that they yanked him after I did all that work. Please, Rabobank did the right thing in allowing the riders to choose whether or not to continue riding.

Menchov's hopes did not go down the drain because of Rasmussen. Menchov's hopes fizzled away because of Menchov. Where was he on the mountain stage when Ras took the yellow jersey? Huff'n and puff'n somewhere down the mountain behind Ras. I think the whole team knew Ras was the stronger rider and made the right choice for the team at the time. Ras looked to be more of a sure win than Menchov. A team win is most important not somebody's feelings.

Also, Rabobank didn't have any grounds to pull Rasmussen before the Tour started. When an eye witness stepped forward on Wednesday (Davide Cassani) to counter the claims of Ras (he was in Italy and not Mexico) is when Rabobank pulled his plug. For lying and deception. He was not pulled for not reporting where he was. He was sacked for lying about where he was and again, this did not come to light until a few days ago. Rabobank felt he could not be trusted anymore and bye bye Ras.

It's not the first time roles have changed for somebody in a Tour and it won't be the last. Contador was Discovery's protected rider once moving past Levi in the GC and Levi is supposed to be Disco's #1. I think Astana finally came around to helping Kloden once Vino was way down in the GC. So if you don't perform, don't expect to be treated like a king when there is another hope right in your own team. I think if you are selfish, then you would be upset to help a fellow teammate when you know you are weaker than him.

I do however want to say BRAVO to the 6 Rabobank riders that said they will finish to Paris.

Erik Breukink- "I think that these six boys will press through to Paris and they probably felt it was a good decision to continue."

From Cycling News- The morning after the departure of Rasmussen, Menchov started the stage, but then he too packed and went home, but De Groot wasn't quite ready to leave all the hard work. "We were a very close team," De Groot said, "we still are a very close team and we've been working for two weeks and it looked like we would make it to Paris with the yellow jersey. We should have been partying there," De Groot reflected on the plans the Rabobank team had in mind, "but that isn't the case anymore." The Dutchman talked slowly and seemed deeply affected by the departure of Rasmussen. "These are difficult days... there will be more difficult day coming up and that will continue for a while," De Groot continued but then tried to put things in perspective. There are worse things than this. There are people who are told that they have only a month more to live. What is this in contrast to that?"

I think if Menchov wants to quit, he can quit its up to him, and under the circumstances I understand that.
I cannot be judgemental on him.

Actually I think in one way it might be the best thing that he did, for his safety and the safety of others in the peleton. I know what it's like to ride with a lot on your mind. When that happens you can run into problems. I can only imagine what it would be like riding at 45km/h with guys all around you and your mind drifting from the task at hand....It can't be good...Maybe him retiring was the best thing for all....

And really, it was a his decision and an option he was given by the team.

Rich

Good post Kyler; however, I am still sticking with my initial repsonse that I think the decision was entirely up to Menchov. You and I have no idea what the man is going through, what his personal life is, or what is on his mind, so whether or not he decides to quit should be entirely up to him once he is given the option by Rabobank.

As far as the Italian ex-pro cyclist coming forward and telling people that he saw Ras in the Italian Dolomites (sp.) training, why didn't he come forward at the beginning of the Tour. Was he merely hoping that Ras wouldn't do anything in the Tour? Did he figure that it didn't matter that Ras lied to his team since Ras wasn't a favorite to win the Tour? By the way, Ras also admitted that he was in Italy training when his team confronted him about it a couple of days ago. He admitted that he lied. Not as good as being truthful to begin with, but a lot better than continuing to lie. Kind of like the Italian doper that was caught. He didn't even ask for a test of his B sample and admitted that he doped.

I digress. Cycling is not a sport like football, baseball, hockey, soccer, volleyball, etc. Cycling is a sport like Indy Car, Formula 1, NASCAR, target shooting, etc. Bike racing is an inherently dangerous sport. If your head isn't in the right place and you cause a wreck, you or your fellow riders could die. Yes, people actually die in bike races. Had somebody in a race end up paralyzed from a wreck in a race 20 years ago. Had a guy suffer a heart attack in a race a couple of months ago and die on the course. Bike racing is a tough, demanding sport, and if you aren't completely there physically and mentally, you shouldn't be racing because other people (i.e., the guys behind you) are counting on you not to screw up. We had plenty of big crashes this year in the Tour, so why have somebody race in it who's head is clouded. Heck, I had 5+ crashes in last week's race and I would love to know what those guys were thinking right before they wrecked. Probably worried about credit card bills or car payments, and wham, now they are worried about how they are going to fix their bikes and how good their health insurance is. LOL Anyway, I think I have made my point as best I can.

O.k. I apologize to all those who were offended by my remarks, but it's the way I feel and all of this madness going on has gotten a lot of us pro cycling fans feed up and it's been building year after year after year. As far as Menchov goes...I don't know...maybe it's just me. If I knew that I had fans and supporters out along the course that sacrificed their time and money to come out and watch me, then I don't think quiting would even be an option. Just the chance to ride in to Paris with all of the crowds cheering should not be taken for granted as well. Just to be in the peleton is a privilege the way I see it, but who knows. No statement has been released yet as to why he quit. Could be that he just had a hang nail or something...

The only one that should be offended by your remarks is you.

Kyler,

One of my sayings is that we all would like to think that we would step in front of a bullet to saved a loved one; however, until that bullet is fired and we are put into the situation, we have no idea what we would do. So, until we are actually put in Menchov's shoes, we will never know exactly what we would do. Be a pro athlete has its advantages, but it also has its disadvantages. Imagine being away from your family for half the year while racing your bike. That would suck.

Nowadays, if the race hurts too much and I get dropped, I don't even bother to finish riding. My brothers and sisters make fun of me about it and call me a quitter, but they have no idea how painful it is to be off the back in a race after hitting a wall. They have no idea what it is like to ride another 20 miles after having just finished the first 20 miles of the race. So, it is easy for them to call me a quitter. I get the same thing when I come in in the top 5, but not 1st place. "Oh, if it were me I would have found the extra strength/energy/speed to win." Right, like it is that easy to do because the other guys aren't trying to do the same thing. Who knows what Menchov has had to put up with this year, and even with the release of a statement from him, do you really think you will know why he quit? Probably not.