Hi

I am happy we have lots of supporters here on RBR
and I am glad we have advertising here for several year and plan to continue that

We are offering an insane deal on the 2007 LSL starting in August
I wanted to post it here prior to its start; before we run out of some sizes

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/lechamp420_sale.htm

One way of looking at this deal is:
Buy American Classic 420 wheels at list and FSA Carbon Crank at half off
AND GET FOR FREE
AL Frame
Full Carbon fork
Ultegra Shifters
Ultegra FRT & RR DER
Ultegra Cassette
WCS bars
WCS stem
WCS post
Cane Creek brakes
tires; headset; tubes; saddle; etc

this is a bike hundreds of customers have really loved; at the promotional deal
it is a fantastic value

have fun
mike
bikesdirect

That's pretty impressive components, and a great starter bike for someone wanting something "affordable" to race crits in.

I wouldn't see it as a starter bike. Unless you wanted to upgrade to something with a more expensive name on the downtube.

haha, i like the thread title.

nice deal, too.

I had never seen one these until I was in Bend, Oregon on a vacation.

There was one outside Deschutes Brewing, on a car rack.

I gave it a look over, thought it was a pretty nicely put together bike.

Good deal at this price.

Somewhere on your website you should list your top tube lengths and stem lengths for each frame size.

PS. I would not have a problem recomending this deal to people who want a nice (under $1500) bike. If they didn't like it, after a while, they could strip off the parts and put them on a different frame.

Somewhere on your website you should list your top tube lengths and stem lengths for each frame size.

PS. I would not have a problem recomending this deal to people who want a nice (under $1500) bike. If they didn't like it, after a while, they could strip off the parts and put them on a different frame.

I think you are correct
many customers look here

http://www.motobecane.com/lsl_geometry.html

A surprising number of riders buy this bike for the parts; then after they ride it are unwilling to give up the frame. It rides very nice if you like quickness of aluminum. Of course, we think many customers will buy this and then later get a new carbon frame from us when we have the Bottecchia CF frame in at $399.

mike

...and those who like deals.....


No question that the AC's add a bling factor to this bike that is not matched anywhere else. They do make this bike an incredible deal for people looking to part it out to get the wheels or the build kit cheap.

However claiming these are $900 wheels maybe a little over the top. chainreaction (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=19915) sells them for $375 although they seem to be out of stock. Maybe BD got for them all.

I also think you add should link the AC web page that talks about weight limits (http://www.amclassic.com/pdfs/WheelWeights.pdf). While most of your buyers would most likely be less than 220 lbs a few (like myself) are well over that.

For lard asses like me or for people that are more interested in durability the Neuvation M28 Aero is a better fit. These are listed (http://www.neuvationcycling.com/faq/faq.html) as the strongest wheels they sell and suitable for riders 250lbs + and I for one don't care that they are 3/4 of a lbs heaver

P.S.
Is it true (as mentioned in your ad) that some companies are still spec'ing their bikes with 9 speed Ultegra? I have not seen that spec one a new bike in a few years. There are still some 105 9 speed bikes around. That is crazy if it is true.

I suspect you will sell out of the popular sizes very quick.

420s price is accurate. They're usually right where BD specs them.

800 at txcyclesport http://txcyclesport.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=AM-CLS-420
879 at 3athlon http://www.3-athlon.com/product.php?productid=366

Nashbar has the *rear wheel* for 349.99.

Wisecycle wants 895.00

etc

420s price is accurate. They're usually right where BD specs them.

800 at txcyclesport http://txcyclesport.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=AM-CLS-420
879 at 3athlon http://www.3-athlon.com/product.php?productid=366

Nashbar has the *rear wheel* for 349.99.

Wisecycle wants 895.00

etc

You are right about the Nashbar quote and after a little more googling it appears the the chainreaction price must be wrong or since they are out of stock maybe it's a classic bait and switch. Not sure but I will edit my original response.

Let me start by saying I fall in the camp of a BD supporter, as my gf just ordered a Fantom Cross Pro to commute to work and start riding with me. It was a nice bike at a great price and I'm glad she could get some good quality stuff for a great price. Thanks.

A question on the "Tour de France winning Ultegra 6600 10 Speed technology" statement. Do you mean that 10 speed technology has won the tour or that Ultegra has won the tour? I don't keep up with it as much as I'd like but I thought all the pros that ran Shimano were on DA.

Also, as was mentioned before, are any companies still speccing 9sp Ultegra or DA on new bikes?

These previous two statements seem a little over the top and unnecessary.

Finally, on the wheels, I remember reading another of your posts stating that Reynolds was were the value was at in wheelsets right now. Why AC (I have heard a good amount of negative stuff about their hubs as far as durability) and when you say they are "Guaranteed 100% by them" it might help if you told what that guarantee was.

Thanks for your responses.

I have looked at the BD site and the deals look very good, maybe too good to be true. I highly recommend reading reviews on the individual components before ordering. I looked at a bike and then read reviews telling me that the crankset was poor quality, the wheels were flawed and of course the frame is generic. If you plan on upgrading to quality parts you will end up spending as much or more than you would have to begin with at your LBS.

And to top it off...I have sent 2 e mails to BD in the past week asking specific questions about bike geometry and fit and have not recieved any response. Is that the kind of service you should expect from a company you intend to do business with? Not me!

That's my $00.02 worth, now I am off to the LBS.

Hi

I am happy we have lots of supporters here on RBR
and I am glad we have advertising here for several year and plan to continue that

We are offering an insane deal on the 2007 LSL starting in August
I wanted to post it here prior to its start; before we run out of some sizes

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/lechamp420_sale.htm

One way of looking at this deal is:
Buy American Classic 420 wheels at list and FSA Carbon Crank at half off
AND GET FOR FREE
AL Frame
Full Carbon fork
Ultegra Shifters
Ultegra FRT & RR DER
Ultegra Cassette
WCS bars
WCS stem
WCS post
Cane Creek brakes
tires; headset; tubes; saddle; etc

this is a bike hundreds of customers have really loved; at the promotional deal
it is a fantastic value

have fun
mike
bikesdirect

Sure, most people like a deal, but you still suck for advertising in the forum section

an ad to me.

An ad that's a good deal, maybe -- but even so. I know most of us use firefox to block out the banner ads, but ...

My Little Brother is looking for a bike. I might recommend this one to him. Does anyone know if one either color model you can take the Motobecane stickers off for a more stealth look?

Of course, we think many customers will buy this and then later get a new carbon frame from us when we have the Bottecchia CF frame in at $399.

When will you begin selling this frame? Is the quoted price for the frame or frameset? Let me know if you need someone as a "test" market ;)

Off and related topic...when will you be selling the 29'r SS rigids on the website?

+1 for 29ers.

The SLK crank is an ISIS version? Man that's old.

Nice deal, but the crank...and I'm looking to buy a bike like this for someone.

+1 for 29ers.

The SLK crank is an ISIS version? Man that's old.

Nice deal, but the crank...and I'm looking to buy a bike like this for someone.


At least the ISIS crank do not have a problem with the left crank arm coming loose.....

Off and related topic...when will you be selling the 29'r SS rigids on the website?

Those sold out before we could get more

The next order is due in about 5 weeks from now [around Sept 5th]

This time we ordered way more and will have them on the site [last time our stores and ebay seller sold them before we could get them up]

thanks for your interest

mike

Let me start by saying I fall in the camp of a BD supporter, as my gf just ordered a Fantom Cross Pro to commute to work and start riding with me. It was a nice bike at a great price and I'm glad she could get some good quality stuff for a great price. Thanks.

A question on the "Tour de France winning Ultegra 6600 10 Speed technology" statement. Do you mean that 10 speed technology has won the tour or that Ultegra has won the tour? I don't keep up with it as much as I'd like but I thought all the pros that ran Shimano were on DA.

Also, as was mentioned before, are any companies still speccing 9sp Ultegra or DA on new bikes?

These previous two statements seem a little over the top and unnecessary.

Finally, on the wheels, I remember reading another of your posts stating that Reynolds was were the value was at in wheelsets right now. Why AC (I have heard a good amount of negative stuff about their hubs as far as durability) and when you say they are "Guaranteed 100% by them" it might help if you told what that guarantee was.

Thanks for your responses.

I think you are right; 9-speed Ultegra maybe thru the system. I do not write the ad copy and sometimes do not have time to read it all.

Of course, as an off list price seller; we compete with lots of discounted stuff. I saw a post on another forum comparing a 2008 Windsor we just put up to a 2005 Jamis that was on sale at another site. Many sites and shops rountinely have on sale 2 and 3 year old stuff.

We get e-mails about that all the time asking us to compare our 2007 bike that is 20 or 30 speed; to bikes that a 18 or 27 speed that are either in the same price range [new Tiagra] or to an older bike that might be 9-speed 105 or Ultegra. Maybe that is the reason for the ad copy as is.

AC wheel issues on negative posts mainly is from them being for light riders 220 or under [200 and under might be better] -- plus a recall that was some wheels a couple of years ago. It is true the 2008 LSL will have no weight limit Ritchey WCS Protocals -- but the AC420 are still a kick-ass set of wheels and MUCH better than you would see on any other bike at $1095

thanks

mike

It needs a head tube length listed (which is on the bike is on the short side.)

I think you are correct
many customers look here

http://www.motobecane.com/lsl_geometry.html

A surprising number of riders buy this bike for the parts; then after they ride it are unwilling to give up the frame. It rides very nice if you like quickness of aluminum. Of course, we think many customers will buy this and then later get a new carbon frame from us when we have the Bottecchia CF frame in at $399.

mike

. I know most of us use firefox to block out the banner ads, but ...


THANK YOU

This is one of the more interesting posts I have read lately.

I did not know you could block out banners with firefox [I have never used it]

This really effects the traffic count figures and how they should be viewed by advertisers.

And if your statement that 'most of us use firefox' is true -- then advertising rates and traffic count claims are greatly effected.

again
thank you for this information

mike

THANK YOU

This is one of the more interesting posts I have read lately.

I did not know you could block out banners with firefox [I have never used it]

This really effects the traffic count figures and how they should be viewed by advertisers.

And if your statement that 'most of us use firefox' is true -- then advertising rates and traffic count claims are greatly effected.

again
thank you for this information

mike

I love how you are all on top of finding ways to weasel your ad rates lower, yet you still post an ad in the forum section (which in my opinion shows a lack of respect to the site), and you still avoid the question from posters on how "with the Tour de France winning Ultegra 6600" is a true statement?

So you don't have time to "write the ad copy and sometimes do not have time to read it all." (and evidently, you don't have time to fix the lie when it is pointed out to you) but you do have time to investigate your ad rates with RBR? IMO, you have your priorities mixed up.

you still avoid the question from posters on how "with the Tour de France winning Ultegra 6600" is a true statement?

.


Sorry, I did not know that was a question
I already ask the web guys to adjust the text to 10 speed technology; which is what they meant to start with

there are copies of that listing; so we can track who came thru our site directly and who came thru rbr and bikeforums -- more research on traffic patterns -- I hope the web guy changed both -- I'll check later


mike

I love how you are all on top of finding ways to weasel your ad rates lower, yet you still post an ad in the forum section (which in my opinion shows a lack of respect to the site), and you still avoid the question from posters on how "with the Tour de France winning Ultegra 6600" is a true statement?

So you don't have time to "write the ad copy and sometimes do not have time to read it all." (and evidently, you don't have time to fix the lie when it is pointed out to you) but you do have time to investigate your ad rates with RBR? IMO, you have your priorities mixed up.

I'm not a BD hater or supporter...

I'm just curious as to why you think that a site sponsor "shows a lack of respect" for the forum by posting a deal? Most forums I frequent allow site supporters to post "ads" to the forum...especially if it's a "deal".

I can see how one could debate whether or not the bike in the original post is, indeed, a "deal". I don't see it as disrespectful, however.

As for the "with the Tour de France winning Ultegra 6600" is a true statement?" part...again, this can be debated. IIRC, Shimano follows the basic industry "trickle down" practice. The newer Ultegra is basically the same "technology" that was once Dura Ace.

I know, that's "picking nits" but, so is the the fact that you bothered to post in this thread instead of just ignoring it.

I'm just curious as to why you think that a site sponsor "shows a lack of respect" for the forum by posting a deal? Most forums I frequent allow site supporters to post "ads" to the forum...especially if it's a "deal".

I think your question is fair:
1. There is a "Hot deals" forum, which is where good deals go. But this is just BD retail pricing. Also, since the post comes from the seller, it is now an advertisement for his own product. BD abuses this policy regularly, but thankfully they are one of the few that does. This site, or esp. the general forum, is not intended for every company, website store, or classified ad, to have a posting for thier product. If it did, RBR would quickly suck, as you would be wading through countless ads to read a real question.

Also, this is just free advertising for BD. RBR is a company, they have a posting for a new job now, they need to make money, to support the services that I freely use. This is an abuse of RBR's good will in my opinion.

As the "with the Tour de France winning Ultegra 6600" is a true statement?" part...again, this can be debated. IIRC, Shimano follows the basic industry "trickle down" practice. The newer Ultegra is bascially the same "technology" that was once Dura Ace.
An Ultegra group set never won a tour. If you start using your logic, I don't see why you couldn't say that all 23mm tires are "Tour winning" as the winners were all on 23's. The old Ultegra stuff might use some pieces here and there from Dura Ace, but it is not just the old stuff re-badged. That makes it a lie.

so is the the fact that you bothered to post in this thread instead of just ignoring it.
I posted b/c I don't want BD to start posting this junk all the time, like they have in the past. And I don't want them using shill accounts to talk about how good their products are, as they have in the past. I want this forum to stay free of salesmen, and more towards reviews and technical advice. :D

Didn't BD used to say when pressed that the "TDF winning ultegra" was really just the downtube shifters that lance used sometimes. And they don't sell bikes with dt shifters.

That being said I'm on a bd bike now. The wheels I got were garbage (vuelta), but upgrading those I've got a decent ride though I will change frames for a different geometry later.

I think your question is fair:
1. There is a "Hot deals" forum, which is where good deals go. But this is just BD retail pricing. Also, since the post comes from the seller, it is now an advertisement for his own product. BD abuses this policy regularly, but thankfully they are one of the few that does. This site, or esp. the general forum, is not intended for every company, website store, or classified ad, to have a posting for thier product. If it did, RBR would quickly suck, as you would be wading through countless ads to read a real question.

Also, this is just free advertising for BD. RBR is a company, they have a posting for a new job now, they need to make money, to support the services that I freely use. This is an abuse of RBR's good will in my opinion.

Fair enough though I'd be much more inclined to have a problem with it IF they weren't a site sponsor. I'm only a site participant...not a site supporter so I'm inclined to accept (and ignore if I choose to) "ad" type posts.


An Ultegra group set never won a tour. If you start using your logic, I don't see why you couldn't say that all 23mm tires are "Tour winning" as the winners were all on 23's. The old Ultegra stuff might use some pieces here and there from Dura Ace, but it is not just the old stuff re-badged. That makes it a lie.

Big difference between "technology" and "size". If the logic used was what you stated, then all bike makers who made a 56cm bike could say that their 56cm bike was the same size as a Tour winner.

I posted b/c I don't want BD to start posting this junk all the time, like they have in the past. And I don't want them using shill accounts to talk about how good their products are, as they have in the past. I want this forum to stay free of salesmen, and more towards reviews and technical advice. :D

I can understand your position and support it to a degree. As I stated earlier, normally a site sponsor is given some latitude in this regard on most forums I frequent. In the end, it's up to the RBR powers that be to decide how they want to run the site.

In the interim...I'll just ignore 'ad" posts...unless they're for a really good DEAL! :D

I have a Fantom Cross Pro frame waiting to be built up, so I probably somehow fall into the category of BD supporter.

That said, since you do have prices that are bargains relative to the competition, why the cheesey sell job? Why the cartoonish amateur web site and grandiose marketing?

As a long-time web developer, I may be more sensitive to these issues.

Nah, Chili, I feel the same way.

Conceptually, the price to performance ratio of the Bikesdirect bikes is pretty solid. I have no problem with what they sell, and I don't care about "sticker brands."

But, Mike and BD, if you're listening, the ad-copy really does sound like one of those used-car lots. It puts me off for that reason.

If a part breaks on the bicycle, will bikesdirect service the part? Or write another whiny letter to Bicycle Retailer?

If a part breaks on the bicycle, will bikesdirect service the part? Or write another whiny letter to Bicycle Retailer?


We service parts all the time
and send out replacement parts all the time
and sell people parts they have crashed at cost all the time
it is just part of the business

I have no idea what a whiny letter to Bicycle Retailer is - I have not ever written a letter to bicycle retailer that I recall -- but I have felt like it at times

There have definitely been the odd ultegra components used on bikes in the Tour over the last couple of years (eg - cassettes and bottom brackets). Never a whole Ultegra groupset though,

We service parts all the time
and send out replacement parts all the time
and sell people parts they have crashed at cost all the time
it is just part of the business

I have no idea what a whiny letter to Bicycle Retailer is - I have not ever written a letter to bicycle retailer that I recall -- but I have felt like it at times

Is David Sander still affiliated with bikesdirect.com?

Is David Sander still affiliated with bikesdirect.com?

I'll take your silence as a yes.

Take a gander at the 2nd to last issue of Bicycle Retailer. I have a hard time believing you didn't know that a partner in your business was writing an inflammatory letter.

Sander has done your business no favors within the cycling industry.

:mad: I'll take your silence as a yes.

Take a gander at the 2nd to last issue of Bicycle Retailer. I have a hard time believing you didn't know that a partner in your business was writing an inflammatory letter.

Sander has done your business no favors within the cycling industry.

Do you have a link or is it only in the printed version?

If in print I'd love to see a PDF

I'll take your silence as a yes.

Take a gander at the 2nd to last issue of Bicycle Retailer. I have a hard time believing you didn't know that a partner in your business was writing an inflammatory letter.

Sander has done your business no favors within the cycling industry.


Silence? thanks - people have called me many things - but never silent
Sometimes on line I take awhile to answer - of course

I do not have the 2nd to last issue of Bicycle Retailer or any copy of that publication
I have never read the letter you refer to
and NO ONE has ever mentioned it to me before

David Sander is an employee that has worked for me for over 20 years; he was involved in the BD project in the early days -- for the last 7 years he has been on other projects unrelated to BD

The Cycling Industry is very board - customers, factories, distributors, retailers, component makers, media, racers, governemnt, advocacy groups and so on -- No one I know of has had any issue supplying us or buying from us due to the article. If so, I have sure never heard about it

I could certainly write a letter complaining about things to Bicycle Retailer or anyone else - But I never think that gets me very far. Lots of things I would like to see improved; but no one is going to listen to me about that. So I just keep doing what I know how to do in terms of bringing great products at even greater prices.

And I try to learn things too: and I have learned a lot from this thread that will help me

Thanks to everyone who posted

mike

I did end up ordering the bike in the original post for My brother. It seems to be a real good deal. The bike came shipped similar to how I remember bikes coming from the manufacturer when I worked in a bike shop during high school. The bike built up easy of course. The only thing I noticed was the bearings were a little loose on the rear wheel. The cranks were 172.5. I would have preferred 175's for my brother but I kind of felt lucky they weren't 170's since I never thought about that when ordering it for him. He will probably replace the frame either with my CR1 Warranty replacement I should be getting or something else. The frame actually looks pretty decent I just cant get over the huge decals.

...Thanks to everyone who posted

mike


You are so very welcomed!

And I try to learn things too: and I have learned a lot from this thread that will help me



Now if we could just get you to understand why purchasing from grey market distributors is an ethically poor business practice and how it skews the market for honest retailers then we'd be making progress.

Oh yeah, I know about you and your business practices and where you purchase from - and something will be done about it.