I really was rooting for Jan, and sure we can all say that the tour will be decided in the last week but I still cannot for the life of me understand why he is sitting back loosing time to Lance? If I were in Lances position I would feel even more than confident knowing my 'main rival' was happy to sit back and loose time....

What's Jans tactic? At this stage I would say he is not interested in 1st place at all and would be happy with second place yet again. Maybe thats the best he can do, even though he has won the Tour in the past? Perhaps he feels comfortable chasing rather than leading?

I was reading cycling news and Jan said something along the lines of not liking the rain on stage 12 as it caused his muscles to seize up or something? What type of excuse is that exactly? 99.9% of the peleton have big muscles and they do fine in the rain!

Is Basso a Podium contender now? What about Tyler? I didn't think the loosing of a dog could impact ones riding that much?

I really was rooting for Jan, and sure we can all say that the tour will be decided in the last week but I still cannot for the life of me understand why he is sitting back loosing time to Lance? If I were in Lances position I would feel even more than confident knowing my 'main rival' was happy to sit back and loose time....

What's Jans tactic? At this stage I would say he is not interested in 1st place at all and would be happy with second place yet again. Maybe thats the best he can do, even though he has won the Tour in the past? Perhaps he feels comfortable chasing rather than leading?

I was reading cycling news and Jan said something along the lines of not liking the rain on stage 12 as it caused his muscles to seize up or something? What type of excuse is that exactly? 99.9% of the peleton have big muscles and they do fine in the rain!

Is Basso a Podium contender now? What about Tyler? I didn't think the loosing of a dog could impact ones riding that much?
jan has a snowballs chance of catching lance now in my opinion. to even place second he's going to have to really pick it up for the rest of the race and really rock in the ITT. Basso might podium. Let's see how much he has left in the next few stages. Tyler is probably done for this year. He's not riding well at all.

jan has a snowballs chance of catching lance now in my opinion. to even place second he's going to have to really pick it up for the rest of the race and really rock in the ITT. Basso might podium. Let's see how much he has left in the next few stages. Tyler is probably done for this year. He's not riding well at all.

It's still early. They both have a decent shot at the podium, people have good days and bad... Roberto had a bad day, too. Basso had a good one... as did Lance.

Only time will tell!

Actually I am watching a replay at the moment, and frankly Tyler looks finished at this stage......

I really was rooting for Jan, and sure we can all say that the tour will be decided in the last week but I still cannot for the life of me understand why he is sitting back loosing time to Lance? If I were in Lances position I would feel even more than confident knowing my 'main rival' was happy to sit back and loose time....

What's Jans tactic? At this stage I would say he is not interested in 1st place at all and would be happy with second place yet again. Maybe thats the best he can do, even though he has won the Tour in the past? Perhaps he feels comfortable chasing rather than leading?

I was reading cycling news and Jan said something along the lines of not liking the rain on stage 12 as it caused his muscles to seize up or something? What type of excuse is that exactly? 99.9% of the peleton have big muscles and they do fine in the rain!

Is Basso a Podium contender now? What about Tyler? I didn't think the loosing of a dog could impact ones riding that much?

What??? I'm pretty offended by this post.

Jan got shelled today. He had nothing. He lost 2:30 minutes to his greatest rival, someone he could not afford to lose a second to. He fought with every fiber of his body. At the 5k mark, he had nothing while Lance had good tempo. Jan fought hard with a hideous grimace frozen on his face.

<img src="http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/tour04/stage12/20.jpg">

He's not sitting pretty back there happy with second place. Would you say that about about anyone who didn't come in first today? Jan gave it his all in defeat.

He's not making an excuse about the weather. In the post-race interviews, he's bitterly disappointed. He's just responding how the weather affected him. For many years now, he's sucked in the cold and rain more than most. It probably affected him today as it did some of the major players.

Sorry Trevor for getting on your case. I can accept Jan getting shelled but I'll defend his efforts and convictions any day. Don't give up on him so easily too.

francois

Yup. Jan got smoked. He wasn't holding back. That is kind of lame to even say. No one "holds back" when their main rival is up the road ;O) LOL!!! Feel bad for Tyler. I was really hoping he would at least finish on the podium if not actually win. Maybe the loss of his dog took a toll. I know how badly I felt and how it effected my work when I lost a dear pet.

What??? I'm pretty offended by this post.

Jan got shelled today. He had nothing. He lost 2:30 minutes to his greatest rival, someone he could not afford to lose a second to. He fought with every fiber of his body. At the 5k mark, he had nothing while Lance had good tempo. Jan fought hard with a hideous grimace frozen on his face.

<img src="http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/tour04/stage12/20.jpg">

He's not sitting pretty back there happy with second place. Would you say that about about anyone who didn't come in first today? Jan gave it his all in defeat.

He's not making an excuse about the weather. In the post-race interviews, he's bitterly disappointed. He's just responding how the weather affected him. For many years now, he's sucked in the cold and rain more than most. It probably affected him today as it did some of the major players.

Sorry Trevor for getting on your case. I can accept Jan getting shelled but I'll defend his efforts and convictions any day. Don't give up on him so easily too.

francois

I was waiting for your reply. :p

I know I know... Its early days and he only lost 2:30 but all the same thats reasonable time. He may be first across the line tomorrow but still I am concerned.

I still want him in first (as always) but at this stage I don't thing he is riding good enough...

I think tomorrow will be the test though. I suspect tomorrow is where the race really starts. I will be eagerly awaiting the result...

I think tomorrow will be the test though. I suspect tomorrow is where the race really starts. I will be eagerly awaiting the result...<!-- / message -->
The words of a true Jan fan. The problem is the race started last week :O) LA knows that and rides like that every day of the Tour. That is why he has won five times. 2:30 may as well be an hour. Even on his best day and LA's worst he was only able to gain 1:30 on him. I don't think Jan is any better tacticly than Georgie is and that isn't a good thing :O) It isn't enough to have brute strength as they both have proved time and again.

on one of the least demanding mountain stages does not fare well. I'm gonna bet he'll lose more tomorrow and his morale will be gone. PdB he missed in 2002 (Lance won) and it's where Pantani handed him defeat. His head must be swimming and I'm sure Lance is doing a rain dance. Jan isn't familiar with this stage and Lance's memories are of this stage propelling him out of reach on GC. I'm expecting the same tomorrow. I just find it funniest that all the naysayers who were calling last year the first signs of LA's demise instead of a anomoly brought on by physical and marital turmoil have turned silent. I find this especially funny as his own Dom now rival Roberto Heras was quoted as..and I paraphrase "remember he still won the tour and he was having a bad year', Eddy Merckx who knows more about bike racing than all of us combined didn't flinch in his beliefs and the doubting Thomases still were preparing the grave dance of the new millenium. As I've stated I'm no LA superfan but I watch this stuff with my mind and not my heart. It provides a much clearer perspective. Both haters and lovers of any riders get their perspective askew and I hope they don't or didn't wager based upon it.
Anais Nin said it best "we don't see things as they are, we see them as we are"

So true. He came back more focused than ever. Heras should know better than most what LA is capable of. I was kind of pulling for Tyler, but one cannot help look at LA in total amazement and awe. Once he got to the front of the bunch today, I doubt there was nary a person that didn't think "there he goes again" and wasn't surprised to see it!:O)

Ullrich's never struck me as a guy that hangs out false laundry for the media to sniff. I think his legs weren't good enough today and he admitted it. I also think that if Kloden really is a better a bet for the team he will ride in support.


On to CSC - Basso's ride was excellent! Five stars! Unfortunately, unless he's improved on his flat time trialling substantially he's going to need a 3-4 min lead over a guy like Armstrong or Ullrich, or even Hamilton and Moreau, if he expects to live thru Stage 19.

Yup. Jan got smoked. He wasn't holding back. That is kind of lame to even say. No one "holds back" when their main rival is up the road ;O) LOL!!! Feel bad for Tyler. I was really hoping he would at least finish on the podium if not actually win. Maybe the loss of his dog took a toll. I know how badly I felt and how it effected my work when I lost a dear pet.

I agree with LS on this one, though I'm not sure that as a pro and with all that's at stake, Tyler should have allowed Tugboat's death to bother him that much. You could see the other Phonak riders trying to pull Tyler up and it wasn't working today.

But we're all affected by things differently. Emotional pain can be much worse for some people than any physical pain Jan might have been having, for instance.

Somebody's going to have to step up and prove themselves pretty damned soon, and it doesn't have to be LA. The burden is on the rest of the bunch.