Is there a measurable difference between the neo primato and say the viner comp 12.5.
They both are handmade, same tubes Lugs (who knows) and both are brazed but the Viner is $1300.00 less So my question is tell me why the premium ?

This thought extends past this frame alone I have a masterlight and it is very beautiful to look at but Iam afraid to ride it ...which is just plain crazy. So is it a premium with substance or not ...I don't know...any thoughts:idea:

Why is a DaVinci worth more than the painting by that old guy in your local park?

You are paying $1300 for a little red heart.

Me ... I could never ride a Viner but check ebay everyday waiting for a good deal on a Neo. $1800 is just a little to much, but a new 55cm red and white "Faema" for $1200 would only take me about 10 seconds to hit the "Buy It Now" button.:D

It kinda depends on how the bike is equipped. I'm a DeRosa fan. Every time I get "new bike fever" I go our & look at and ride some new ones. Then I go home & ride my DeRosa. This has been going on since 1994 when I bought the DeRosa. I still have the DeRosa. Nuff said.

With DeRosa you are buying magic, with Viner, you are simply buying a frame.

Man no one shows the love for Viner

Man no one shows the love for Viner

True, but they do show love for, say, Gios and their steel offering costs $895 and not $1800. IMO, no steel frame is worth that much, not De Rosa, not Merckx, not Colnago...

Ned

I spent hours riding a late 90s Primato that i was considering buying from a friend-he paid about $1000 new for it.I recently saw a new Neo Primato in a shop and it was not as nicely crafted or painted as the original Primato I rode.The Primato was a nice stiff steel frame but there was nothing especially magical about it-I passed on the deal feeling it was overpriced.I ended up buying a new Pinarello Vuelta on a team deal for $700 that I felt was superior to the DeRosa.At $1800 the Neo Primato definitely seems overpriced.In fact all the new high end Italian steel frames I have seen seem to have slipped in build quality and paint since the 90s.I get the feeling you are now paying big bucks for a legacy when you buy the new Italian steel.The Viners appear to be very nice without the legacy pricing.

IMO, no steel frame is worth that much, not De Rosa, not Merckx, not Colnago...

Oh come now, how about a Richard Sachs steel frame? I can guarantee you that you put a lightly used Sachs frame on Ebay and it will sell for over $2500.

Why don't you think steel is worth $1800 - is any frame worth $1800? What makes a frame "worth" $1800? How is worth defined? Is it defined by what you can sell it on Ebay for?

Is a Chinese fabricated CF frame sold by Giant, Specialized or Cervelo really worth $1800? I'm pretty certain 5 years from now, that same Cervelo frame would be worth much less than a Sachs frame of the same vintage, if both were NOS.

I think when it comes down to it, worth is simply a function of your personal desire that nobody can really answer for you, because what is worth something to one may be absolutely worthless to another.

Oh come now, how about a Richard Sachs steel frame? I can guarantee you that you put a lightly used Sachs frame on Ebay and it will sell for over $2500.

Why don't you think steel is worth $1800 - is any frame worth $1800? What makes a frame "worth" $1800? How is worth defined? Is it defined by what you can sell it on Ebay for?

Is a Chinese fabricated CF frame sold by Giant, Specialized or Cervelo really worth $1800? I'm pretty certain 5 years from now, that same Cervelo frame would be worth much less than a Sachs frame of the same vintage, if both were NOS.

I think when it comes down to it, worth is simply a function of your personal desire that nobody can really answer for you, because what is worth something to one may be absolutely worthless to another.
+1 Well said.:thumbsup: