Some data I found interesting is a list of the TDF podium finishers from 1995 forward listed with associated positive doping information. I think the results speaks for themself.


TDF PODIUM FINISHERS

1995
1. Miguel Indurain
2. Alex Zulle (Festina – EPO)
3. Bjarne Ris (EPO admitted)

1996
1. Bjarne Ris – (EPO admitted)
2. Jan Ullrich – (Blood Doping, caught)
3. Richard Vrenque (EPO, Festina caught)

1997
1. Jan Ullrich (Blood doping, caught)
2. Richard Virenque (EPO, caught)
3. Marco Pantani (60% hematocrit - suspected drug cheat)

1998
1. Marco Pantani (60% hematocrit - suspected drug cheat)
2. Jan Ullrich (Blood Doping, caught)
3. Bobby Julich

1999
1. Lance Armstrong (EPO, 6 positive blind samples later ID’ed as LA’s)
2. Alex Zulle (Festina, EPO caught)
3. Fernando Escartin

- Test for recombinant EPO implemented -

2000
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Jan Ullrich (Blood Doping, caught)
3. Joseba Beloki (Operation Puerto, blood doping)

2001
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Jan Ullrich (Blood Doping, caught)
3. Joseba Beloki (Operation Puerto, blood doping)

2002
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Joseba Beloki (Operation Puerto, blood doping)
3. Rainondas Rumsas (HGH, caught)

2003
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Jan Ullrich (Blood Doping, caught)
3. Alexander Vinokourov (Blood doping caught)

2004
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Andreas Kloden
3. Ivan Basso (Blood Doping, caught)

2005
1. Lance Armstrong
2. Ivan Basso (Blood Doping, caught)
3. Jan Ullrich (Blood Doping, caught)

2006
1. Floyd Landis (Testosterone, caught)
2. Oscar Pereiro
3. Andreas Kloden

Results
36 finishers

23 known dopers (excluding LA)
64% of the podium finishers were known dopers

30 known dopers (including LA)
83% of podium finishers were known dopers

So what is your point?

The point is that to be a top GC rider in the TDF one has no choice but to break the rules.

I don't disagree with your conclusion. It may, however, be worth pointing out that few of the podium finishers on your list have a positive result from the tour in which they achieved the podium finish. Some will say, once a doper, always a doper, but that is speculative.

The point is that to be a top GC rider in the TDF one has no choice but to break the rules.

If there was no choice, how come your statistics don't come out to 100%? Clearly, there is a choice.

Kloden - career with Godefroot.
Escartin - podiumed for Kelme
Indurain - Festina trial testimony about systematic doping at Banesto
Pereiro - Urko in Puerto? Won't give dna

Only Julich is left on that list.

The point is that to be a top GC rider in the TDF one has no choice but to break the rules.
I think I could agree with that in terms of past tours. But the past does not always predict the future...

I think I could agree with that in terms of past tours. But the past does not always predict the future...

Yes, there is hope for the future. This years tdf was a joke though, with puertodor winning and leipheimers ridiculous final tt. Hopefully this was the last year we'll see Bruyneel at the tdf. who knows about Evans but I wouldn't bet a penny that he's clean. Maybe someday we'll see realistic power outputs and times up the famed climbs.

"It may, however, be worth pointing out that few of the podium finishers on your list have a positive result from the tour in which they achieved the podium finish."

You raise a very valid point Harlond. In the case of some athletes (B. Bonds) the doping obivously occured later in career and there was a demonstrated increase in production after the age of 35. An easy speculative example from this TDF list would be Ullrich. Early in his career he could use rEPO without fear of getting caught since there was no test for rEPO. Hence the great results early on. Post ~2000 one had to turn to more complex blood doping involving drawing blood, separating out the red blood cells, etc. To do this a rider would need to pay a doping doctor and this is how he was (finally caught). Pure speculation on my part, but it seems unlikely that Ullrich could ride hard without doping early in his career and only turn to doping to stay at that level later in his career.

I think the point here is that it is HIGHLY unlikely that a non-doper makes the TDF podium. Ergo, LA is a doper (which we all freaking know already)