1. The '07 Langster rear hub is pretty crappy

Considering the whole bike was $600, I guess it's not *that* surprising. I'd noticed that the concentricity of my rear hub wasn't too good because when I held the cranks still and spun the rear wheel, I could see the chain rise and fall about 1/4". In talking to someone at a bike shop they said it was most likely the Shimano BMX freewheel, because they were generally not all that concentric. Is that true or was I being fed a sales pitch? I found a White Industries Dos Eno freewheel for a decent price elsewhere and put it on tonight. Not only was the chain deflection as bad or worse, but if I looked straight down at the freewheel with the wheel spinning I could *see* it wobble! Fortunately, I've got a new set of wheels coming from Milwaukee Bike Company (when they get around to building them), so I guess I won't worry about it.

2. The White Industries freewheels are LOUD.

I was surprised how loud the White Industries freewheel is compared to the Shimano. It's probably not going to get any quieter, is it?

In talking to someone at a bike shop they said it was most likely the Shimano BMX freewheel, because they were generally not all that concentric. Is that true or was I being fed a sales pitch?
At $14 retail, I''m guessing they're not especially well-crafted, but I'be been running them for years on BMX cruisers and they're certainly more than adequate.

The White Industries freewheels are LOUD.
Louder than ACS Claws?

Fortunately, I've got a new set of wheels coming from Milwaukee Bike Company (when they get around to building them), so I guess I won't worry about it.


Why? Will you be using different freewheels?

At $14 retail, I''m guessing they're not especially well-crafted, but I'be been running them for years on BMX cruisers and they're certainly more than adequate.


Louder than ACS Claws?

The White is louder than the claws. More pawls and ratchets I suppose. But the white is quality. One of the reasons I ride fixed is the silence.

Why? Will you be using different freewheels?

I'll be using either the Shimano or White Industries freewheels that I've got, but I was assured that the threading on the Milwaukee Bike rear hub is done correctly, so the worst of the problem will be corrected just by using a better hub. The threads on the stock hub were not only ragged looking, they weren't even cut on axis with the axle. Thus the wobble.
I've got a feeling that either freewheel is going to be fine on a decent hub.
If the White freewheel is too noisy, I'll just pack it with some heavy truck axle grease. That'll quiet 'er down! Yeah... that'll work... :shocked: :out:

......If the White freewheel is too noisy, I'll just pack it with some heavy truck axle grease. That'll quiet 'er down! Yeah... that'll work... :shocked: :out:

A couple or three tack welds ought to cure the problem.

I can't be trusted with a real welder. I'll just pack the innards with JB Weld.

Completely off topic, but is that the Brockway Mountain stage of LSPR in your avatar? Or, is it something from WRC. Looks like it could be Brockway...

No, it's just a WRC photo I grabbed off the net. Wish I was driving it though. So you know Brockway Mountain Drive? My son just graduated from MTU, so we've been up that way a lot. I used to have a WRX and there's a stretch of 41 between Delaware and Lake Medora that was a *blast* to drive. So much so that we went back and forth several times. That was at the last LSPR that included the Subaru and Mitsubishi factory teams. Got to stand right at the pits in Copper Harbor and watch the crews working on the cars. Pretty cool stuff.

No, it's just a WRC photo I grabbed off the net. Wish I was driving it though. So you know Brockway Mountain Drive? My son just graduated from MTU, so we've been up that way a lot. I used to have a WRX and there's a stretch of 41 between Delaware and Lake Medora that was a *blast* to drive. So much so that we went back and forth several times. That was at the last LSPR that included the Subaru and Mitsubishi factory teams. Got to stand right at the pits in Copper Harbor and watch the crews working on the cars. Pretty cool stuff.

My first trip to LSPR was in '96. Maybe '95... I don't remember. Different sport back then. The first time we showed up (knew nothing about rally... it was basically an underground sport at that time) we walked into the competitor registration room asking where we could see the rally cars. They threw the stage maps at us, warned us that we would need a 4x4 to get to some of the stages, and asked that we not wander on to a hot stage and get killed. It was great.

I was at the top of Brockway when Pat Richard launched his car over the top (and nearly off the edge) resulting in the top being closed to the masses.

Your son made a good choice on MTU. I'd go there if I could turn the clock back. I love Houghton and the U.P.!

I love Houghton and the U.P.!

Michigan needs to give the U.P. to Wisconsin, its only connected to the rest of Michigan by a bridge. And I don't think that all the yoopers would be all that upset, we could even keep calling them yoopers.

Sure, they root for the Packers and drink Leinenkugel's anyway. Can we still visit though? We love the western U.P.

I was at the top of Brockway when Pat Richard launched his car over the top (and nearly off the edge) resulting in the top being closed to the masses.

Your son made a good choice on MTU. I'd go there if I could turn the clock back. I love Houghton and the U.P.!

After a couple crashes at other rallies a few years ago, the SCCA only allows spectators in a couple of designated areas. If the race marshals see spectators anywhere else during a stage now they'll delay and/or cancel the stage. I guess I can understand it. The liability expenses must be astronomical as it is.

We were all sad to leave Houghton when my son graduated in May. It had become home for him and it meant we wouldn't be going up there much anymore. They have some really nice trails 5 minutes from his house and I never did get to do any road riding up there.

If the cost of health care ever changes enough that I actually get to retire before I croak, we'll be heading for somewhere in northern Michigan.

1. The '07 Langster rear hub is pretty crappy

Considering the whole bike was $600, I guess it's not *that* surprising. I'd noticed that the concentricity of my rear hub wasn't too good because when I held the cranks still and spun the rear wheel, I could see the chain rise and fall about 1/4". In talking to someone at a bike shop they said it was most likely the Shimano BMX freewheel, because they were generally not all that concentric. Is that true or was I being fed a sales pitch? I found a White Industries Dos Eno freewheel for a decent price elsewhere and put it on tonight. Not only was the chain deflection as bad or worse, but if I looked straight down at the freewheel with the wheel spinning I could *see* it wobble! Fortunately, I've got a new set of wheels coming from Milwaukee Bike Company (when they get around to building them), so I guess I won't worry about it. Check out the below instructions. BTW the guy @ your LBS was blowing smoke. A Shimano freewheel, due to its diminutive size has little to do with your problem. More likely it is the chainring and it's attachment to the crank. Track chainrings and cranks are rated by roundness. Use the below technique which should mitigate the tension problem.

From Sheldon Brown.

Chain Tension With Straight Chain

Ideally, a singlespeed should have a frame with horizontal dropouts or track-style horizontal fork ends.

With this type of frame, the chain tension is regulated by moving the rear axle back and forth in the fork ends. If the chain is too tight, the drive train will bind, perhaps only at one angle of the pedals (chainwheels are not usually perfectly concentric). It should be tight as it can be without binding. If the chain is too loose, it can fall off, usually at the most inconvenient possible time.

Set the rear axle so that the chain pulls taut at the tightest part of the cranks' rotation. One at a time, loosen up each of the stack bolts, and tighten it back just finger tight. Spin the crank slowly and watch for the chain to get to its tightest point. Strike the taut chain lightly with a convenient tool to make the chain ring move a bit on its spider. Then rotate the crank some more, finding the new tightest spot, and repeat as necessary.

This takes a little bit of your hands learning how hard to hit the chain, and how loose to set the stack bolts, but it is really quite easy to learn.

Tighten up the stack bolts a bit and re-check. Tighten the stack bolts in a regular pattern, like the lug nuts on a car wheel. My standard pattern is to start by tightening the bolt opposite the crank, then move clockwise 2 bolts (144 degrees), tighten that one, clockwise 2 more, and so on. Never tighten two neighboring bolts in a row. You may prefer to go counterclockwise, but try to get in the habit of always starting at the same place and always going the same way. This reduces the chances of accidentally missing a bolt.

Once you have the chainrings centered and secured, adjust the position of the rear axle to make the chain as nearly tight as possible without binding. Notice how freely the drive train turns when the chain is too loose. That is how freely it should turn when you are done, but with as little chain droop as possible.

Brad

Yes, I've read that before, but like I said in the original post, "when I held the cranks still and spun the rear wheel, I could see the chain rise and fall about 1/4". With the cranks held still, any lack of concentricity there is effectively neutralized for the purpose of my statement. Now that I've seen the same amount of variation with the White Industries freewheel, I don't doubt that the Shimano freewheel wasn't the main cause. If the threads are off axis enough that I could even see the freewheel itself wobble, that's a crappy hub.
After checking the variation at the chainring I found that it's not too far off, but I'm not going to bother adjusting that until I've got a better hub to work with.

The chain rising and fall isn't hurting anything. It's a cheap freewheel, run it until it gets grungy and toss it. I have had (on my SS mtb) Shimano, ACS, and WI, and I go the same speed on all three. Slow.

Anyways, riding w/o a freewheel is much more fun.

Anyways, riding w/o a freewheel is much more fun.

That's the plan. Eventually.
I'm not about to try a fixed gear maiden voyage on the hilly route I usually ride. If I were still young and crazy I might give it a shot, but now my body breaks easier and doesn't heal very fast anymore...

I'm not about to try a fixed gear maiden voyage on the hilly route I usually ride. If I were still young and crazy I might give it a shot, but now my body breaks easier and doesn't heal very fast anymore...

Hey, lots of us are old-timers around here. The only thing "crazy" would be to try that maiden voyage brakeless. The myth of the out-of-control fixed gear rider barrelling down a hill, his life passing before his eyes and his legs spinning at 200 rpm is greatly exaggerated. I'm not saying it can't happen, but if you squeeze that little lever, it's not going to.

The sooner you go fixed, the sooner you can kiss those annoying freewheels goodbye.

Good point about the brakes. In my head I keep equating fixed gear with no brakes, but if I just flip my rear wheel around I'll still have 'em. I'm used to bombing down the hills on the SS thinking that there's no way I could keep it under control with a fixed gear, but I'll still be able to control the speed (and pedal cadence) with the brakes. All right dammit, I'm game. I'll give it a shot tomorrow if the rain stops. I'll remember you in my will. :eek:
Is it worth it to put the bike on my trainer for a while to get a feel for fixed gear, especially putting back pressure on the pedals to slow down, or should I just dive in and hope for the best?

I built my first fixed gear road bike this spring, hopped on, and been riding it ever since with a learning curve of nearly zero although every once in a while I forget I'm riding fixed and try and coast.

Now I have 4 fixed gear bikes (3 road bikes and a mountain bike) and two of those bikes used to be singlespeeds.

I have another bike in the works and it will be an SS mountain bike as if I'm going to ride one gear on the road it will certainly always be fixed.

For the record...all my fixed gear bikes run at least one brake and a couple of them have two.

Is it worth it to put the bike on my trainer for a while to get a feel for fixed gear, especially putting back pressure on the pedals to slow down, or should I just dive in and hope for the best?

I'd get out on the road, but take it slow. Get a feel for it, and learn what it's like to be reminded not to coast. Do some neighborhood cruises, then try some easy hills - both down and up. Your legs will fatigue faster, and you'll know firsthand how backpressure feels to quads used to only pushing forward, so I wouldn't commit to a 40-miler right off the bat! The beauty of the flipflop is that it only takes a minute to make the switch, so maybe do part of a longer ride fixed, and then flip to the freewheel side for awhile.

Yes, I've read that before, but like I said in the original post, "when I held the cranks still and spun the rear wheel, I could see the chain rise and fall about 1/4". With the cranks held still, any lack of concentricity there is effectively neutralized for the purpose of my statement. Now that I've seen the same amount of variation with the White Industries freewheel, I don't doubt that the Shimano freewheel wasn't the main cause. If the threads are off axis enough that I could even see the freewheel itself wobble, that's a crappy hub.
After checking the variation at the chainring I found that it's not too far off, but I'm not going to bother adjusting that until I've got a better hub to work with. My Bad..What! You actually expect me to read your post?? Yep, sounds like Specialized came up with their own version of an ENO hub. Oh and BTW, if you ever want to use a Flip/Flop hub your going need to keep the brakes or your end up like this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH5W1Z23wPg

Brad

I can't be trusted with a real welder. I'll just pack the innards with JB Weld.

Or, you could just give me that ENO freewheel and I'll get you a fixed cog...

Or, you could just give me that ENO freewheel and I'll get you a fixed cog...

Saw this applicable quote somewhere recently... :D
Approached properly, a genuinely bad idea can have the same look and feel as a brilliant one right up to the point where things start to go all wobbly and you start eyeing the location of the nearest emergency exit. -Gregory Taylor

Ok, I'm hooked. I got to do my first real fixie ride today and once I got into the groove I really liked it. The brakes were a huge help on the first few downhills, but I remembered the tips about pedaling harder and pretending that you're pedaling 2" cranks and it really helped me smooth out and spin faster on the last few hills. Most of the time I ride at a nearby state park with only 2 stop signs in the whole 15 mile loop and there's so little traffic I can usually just slow down and cruise through 'em, so I didn't have frequent stops to contend with.
I got the Milwaukee Bicycle Company wheels last week and they did solve the chain tension problem since the threads are actually on axis, so it's pretty easy to set the chain tension now. I still need to tweak my chainline a little, but I'm waiting until a co-worker gives me an almost a Dura-Ace crankset this week that he's had in a box in his attic for a few years. It's nice to have generous friends...

White freewheels last no longer than any other freewheel. I have several broken ones to proove it. The one to get is harder to find but worth the weight and bux. Its the white modle designed for trials riding.

Its crazy loud, but enguages really fast, solid and shouldnt let go if your just riding streets on it.