And it's more like Apollo 13 than Apollo 11. There was zero, nada, zilch packing around the bike. It was just thrown in the box. The seller blames Candapost and Customs for the lack of packing. I might buy this but even customs would throw the packing stuff back in the box. There was nothing, two small cardboard boxes to help keep the box from crushing and some paper shop towels around the seat post. Otherwise the bike and wheels were just thrown in. The quick release skewers were thrown in the bottom of the box and didn't even have the nut end screwed on. A nut and eccentric washer were gone, probably out the holes in the box made by the axles poking through or through the open handle holes.

The cassette cogs rubbed on the seat tube creating a 1cm by 2cm abrasion. The front wheel hub rubbed on the downtube creating abrasions on the downtube. I'm concerned about the seat tube abrasion because the fiber is exposed and somewhat abraided. The white wrap is fiberglass, not carbon fiber, and doesn't contribute much to the strength of the tube. Any thoughts on the integrity of the tube?. The downtube abrasion seems to be only in the clear coat. I've tried to upload some photos but it doesn't seem to be working at the moment. I will add them when I can.

Yikes - was this a used or new purchase? If new, I'd be sending it back. If used, you might be out of luck. I wouldn't be to concerned about the abrasion, although I'd probably seal it with epoxy. But I'm not an engineer, so it's probably best to get a professional opinion.

And it's more like Apollo 13 than Apollo 11. There was zero, nada, zilch packing around the bike. It was just thrown in the box. The seller blames Candapost and Customs for the lack of packing. I might buy this but even customs would throw the packing stuff back in the box. There was nothing, two small cardboard boxes to help keep the box from crushing and some paper shop towels around the seat post. Otherwise the bike and wheels were just thrown in. The quick release skewers were thrown in the bottom of the box and didn't even have the nut end screwed on. A nut and eccentric washer were gone, probably out the holes in the box made by the axles poking through or through the open handle holes.

The cassette cogs rubbed on the seat tube creating a 1cm by 2cm abrasion. The front wheel hub rubbed on the downtube creating abrasions on the downtube. I'm concerned about the seat tube abrasion because the fiber is exposed and somewhat abraided. The white wrap is fiberglass, not carbon fiber, and doesn't contribute much to the strength of the tube. Any thoughts on the integrity of the tube?. The downtube abrasion seems to be only in the clear coat. I've tried to upload some photos but it doesn't seem to be working at the moment. I will add them when I can.

I take it that the frame and fork were purchased from a seller in Canada?

If so, why on earth would Canada Post have any reason to open the box???

Any time customs have opened one of mine they have re-packed all the padding and sealed the bike up tighter than the original shipper.

Sounds to me like the shipper f'd up and is trying to blame everyone else.

First, it's an ebay purchase and I'm aware of all the pitfalls. I did my homework on the seller and things looked ok. Worst that was said was that communication and shipping was slow. That was the case with me, too. The bike took three weeks to get here and I had to usually email a couple of times to get a response. But the seller has a 100% rating and deals in bikes and triathlon equipment. He's also got an ebay store but the merchandise is scant at times.

Second, I don't believe the seller for a moment that it's Canadapost or Customs fault. There was no packing and never was, that's obvious.

Third, I'm not looking to send it back but if it's damaged to the extent it's unsafe I will need to do something. I like the bike and it is as advertised, brand new. I'm most interested in opinions on the damage but it's pretty useless without pictures and the site kept timing out when I tried to post them over lunch. I'll followup with pictures, perhaps later tonight.

I haven't asked the seller for anything yet. I just let him know I wasn't happy with the way it was packed and told him about the damage.

The bike is new but it's an ebay purchase, see my post below in repsonse to toomanybikes. From the looks of things the abrasion is through the clearcoat and has somewhat abraided the fiberglas mesh wrap that makes it "white" carbon. It's my thought that the integrity of the frame isn't compromised but that may be just a hopeful buyer not wanting to acknowledge that his brand new frame is toast. I really want to believe it's ok but I have no experince with fiberglas wrapped carbon (who does?). Maybe I should contact Token. I bought one of their bottom brackets two years ago and had some questions on installation. They responded quickly and were real helpful. Maybe if I send them some pictures they can help?

This wouldn't be a seller that also has a place in upstate New York would it??

I bought a frame from that one, which actually came Fedex but I was atounded when I opened the box to see that the frame and fork had dropout spreaders and that was it, no other padding or anything else.

Here's the Ebay listing for my auction http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300140261721&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=020

Here's his Ebay store http://stores.ebay.com/Toronto-Sports-Discount

Not much in it right now but there was more about a month ago and it looks like he's been selling at auction pretty steadily since July .

I don't think he's got anything in NY. From his emails english might not be his native language but everything is understandable, just a few syntax errors.

I'm not out to diss the guy (yet). I'm more interested in making sure the bike is road worthy.

Here's the Ebay listing for my auction http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300140261721&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=020

Here's his Ebay store http://stores.ebay.com/Toronto-Sports-Discount

Not much in it right now but there was more about a month ago and it looks like he's been selling at auction pretty steadily since July .

I don't think he's got anything in NY. From his emails english might not be his native language but everything is understandable, just a few syntax errors.

I'm not out to diss the guy (yet). I'm more interested in making sure the bike is road worthy.


Not the same guy.

Hope it works out.

Pictures of the damage. Not concerned about the downtube scruff marks but take a look at the seat tube abrasion. Seat tube is the first picture.

...Second, I don't believe the seller for a moment that it's Canadapost or Customs fault. There was no packing and never was, that's obvious...Third, I'm not looking to send it back but if it's damaged to the extent it's unsafe I will need to do something...I haven't asked the seller for anything yet. I just let him know I wasn't happy with the way it was packed and told him about the damage.

Contact the seller and let him know this is unacceptable. Keep all emails between you and the seller. Your emails should be succinct and professional.

Give the seller one - and only one - opportunity to respond with a satisfactory resolution.

If the seller does not cooperate, contact Pay Pal and file a claim. There may be a small deductible; regardless, you will get most of your money back.

You can also file an "item not as described" claim with eBay. There is a time limit involved (it may be no less than 10 days after the auction ended and no more than 60 days).

Since eBay owns Pay Pal, there may be a certain amount of redundancy between filing a claim with eBay and Pay Pal.

Do not build up the bike.

Show the bike and packaging to your lbs. If necessary, Pay Pal may require a verified letter from them to support your claims. This will carry a lot of weight.

Even if the damage is only cosmetic, I'd be pissed every single time I looked at the scuffs.

With that on the seat tube, from what I can see, I wouldn't ride that bike. Ask the seller to replace it, or take it back.

yeah, do all you can to not buy it... awhile ago I got a ss mtn bike from a guy and it was sent packed like crap with no packing material and was damaged (dropouts poking through the box and bent, chain was left on and slapped around and f'ed up the paint, etc)... fedex took care of it I was out nothing... you might look into filing a claim w/ CanadaPost as well

Since the e-bay listing said nothing about bike being sold "as is", and since (quite interestingly!) shipping insurance was not offered as an option, it's the seller's responsibility to get a frame in new condition to you. Didn't happen, so seller should be responsible for either replacing or fully refunding your payment.

yeah, do all you can to not buy it... awhile ago I got a ss mtn bike from a guy and it was sent packed like crap with no packing material and was damaged (dropouts poking through the box and bent, chain was left on and slapped around and f'ed up the paint, etc)... fedex took care of it I was out nothing... you might look into filing a claim w/ CanadaPost as well

The only problem is that it really isn't Canada Posts's fault. However, they do offer insurance on the parcels but it depends on the declared value of the parcel at the time of mailing - Just out of curiosity - what did the seller declare it at ??

I sent an inquiry to Token, the manufacturer of the frame, and they responded very promptly. From my description of the problem they said I could simply buff out the area and put some clear coat over it and it would be fine. I'm still somewhat nervous so I sent them a picture and asked them to take a look at it (couldn't attach a picture to their contact form for my initial contact). I also emailed Calfee to see what they would do and how much it would cost. If in the opinion of Token and Calfee the damage does not compromise the structural integrity of the frame I think I'll keep it and try and get the seller to pay for repairs.

BTW, I bought a Token bottom bracket two years ago and had a question on installation. I emailed Token and they were equally prompt and helpful that time. I am impressed by their customer service.

I agree with EVERYONE here - there is NO WAY I would keep that bike. Not sure how you paid for it, but I would #1 ask the seller for a refund and pay to return ship the bike back, file a claim with Paypal, ebay and your credit card company. With Paypay and Ebay - you have a time limit to file a claim so pay attention. Damage to carbon fiber could be cosmetic or structural - you have no way of telling.

I had a Felt F2C carbon frame that had a small scratch on the drive side chain stay - I wanted to sell the frame so I sent it back to Felt to let their "Engineers" determine if it was cosmetic only or possible structural.....you have no way to determine this (nor does Token) unless they see the bike and run it thru their structrual test machines...or something like that.

If you decide to keep the bike - make sure your current on your dental insurance :eek:


just my opinion though
Michael
www.MLKimages.com