Swiss citizenship system 'racist'
By Imogen Foulkes
BBC News, Geneva

Switzerland makes it very difficult for foreigners to become Swiss
An official report into the process of naturalisation in Switzerland says the current system is discriminatory and in many respects racist.

The report, from Switzerland's Federal Commission on Racial Discrimination, recommends far-reaching changes.

It criticises the practice of allowing members of a community to vote on an individual's citizenship application.

Muslims and people from the Balkans and Africa are the most likely to be rejected, the report points out.

Switzerland has Europe's toughest naturalisation laws. Foreigners must live for 12 years in a Swiss community before they can apply, and being born in Switzerland brings no right to citizenship.

Under the current system, foreigners apply through their local town or village.

They appear before a citizenship committee and answer questions about their desire to be Swiss. After that, they must often be approved by the entire voting community, in a secret ballot, or a show of hands. This practice, the report says, is particularly likely to be distorted by racial discrimination.

It cites the case of a disabled man originally from Kosovo. Although fulfilling all the legal criteria, his application for citizenship was rejected by his community on the grounds that his disability made him a burden on taxpayers, and that he was Muslim.

The report recommends that decisions on citizenship should be decided by an elected executive and not by the community as a whole. But such a move is likely to encounter stiff opposition.

Foreigners are a key issue in the run-up to Switzerland's general election next month.

The right-wing Swiss People's Party, currently leading in the opinion polls, claims Swiss communities have a democratic right to decide who can or cannot be Swiss.

The Swiss system: a thoroughly democratic way to manage immigration and retain a cohesive society...or 'racist'?

It seems to me this criticism of 'racism' is typical from relativist liberal-left media types (that is why it is on the bbc site)...clearly the Swiss value their condition of citizenship....it is a club nobody has an unconditional right to join....in is not just a matter of 'ticking the right boxes' as it would seem to be for immigrants to most western countries.

Switzerland is a cohesive society with a strong sense of civic values and responsibilities.

Thoughts?

The Swiss system: a thoroughly democratic way to manage immigration and retain a cohesive society...or 'racist'?

It seems to me this criticism of 'racism' is typical from relativist liberal-left media types (that is why it is on the bbc site)...clearly the Swiss value their condition of citizenship....it is a club nobody has an unconditional right to join....in is not just a matter of 'ticking the right boxes' as it would seem to be for immigrants to most western countries.

Switzerland is a cohesive society with a strong sense of civic values and responsibilities.

Thoughts?

Sounds pretty democratic, it's hard to call it racist without a good look at the results. Those two things are not exclusive in any way though...

The article skips over any statistics that would indicate racism, but they say that the report describes Muslims having a lower likelihood of citizenship, so it would be interesting to see how that contention is being made. Also, I wouldn't call it a racist system due to the lack of acceptance of Muslims. That is not a race, as far as I can tell.

Sounds pretty democratic, it's hard to call it racist without a good look at the results. Those two things are not exclusive in any way though...

The article skips over any statistics that would indicate racism, but they say that the report describes Muslims having a lower likelihood of citizenship, so it would be interesting to see how that contention is being made. Also, I wouldn't call it a racist system due to the lack of acceptance of Muslims. That is not a race, as far as I can tell.

Well if the outcome is that ethnic minorities are more likely to be rejected then the outcome is arguably 'racist'....of course it may still be democratic.

Seeing as Switzerland is a soverign nation, they can set their citizenship requirements however they wish. I say good on them. I kinda like their process. It'd never work in the States though nor would I want it here.

Is it racist? Who cares. People have a right to be racist if they wish. Even on a nationally sanctioned level.

Is it racist? Who cares. People have a right to be racist if they wish. Even on a nationally sanctioned level.
Not here they don't, and I would guess Switzerland has anti-discrimination laws for employment and schools and other areas that aren't too dissimilar to the US.

Not here they don't, and I would guess Switzerland has anti-discrimination laws for employment and schools and other areas that aren't too dissimilar to the US.

So then the only way to guarantee that immigration outcomes are not 'racist' is to have the decisions made by a regulated and transparent 'institution'....on behalf of the people...but not by them?

Another example of how people can favor democracy until it does not yield the outcome they desire.

Interesting as I'm considering becoming a swiss citizen. Should be much easier for me since my wife is already one.

Not here they don't, and I would guess Switzerland has anti-discrimination laws for employment and schools and other areas that aren't too dissimilar to the US.

Racism and discrimination based on it are two seperate issues. In the US, People have a right to be racist but they don't have a right to discriminate based on race/etc under most, not all, circumstances.

It's their party and they can invite anyone they want. It does say you can't work there it's just has a bunch of rules about becoming a citizen. Good for them.

The Swiss system: a thoroughly democratic way to manage immigration and retain a cohesive society...or 'racist'?



The system, from what I can see, is not racist. Race is not a factor in the rules of the system.

The people however, seem to be. It seems not to be an anti-foreigner effect, but rather an anti-dark skinned foreigner effect.

Does the state have an interest in mitigating the racism of it's citizens? Changing the outcomes of racist actions, if not changing the mind of racists? Different question.

If I recall correctly, it's nearly impossible for non-Japanese to become Japanese citizens. I remember reading an article about a white American who married a Japanese national, and still had trouble becoming a citizen. Japan's xenophobic immigration policy is one factor in their negative birth rate.

Regardless, I agree with KenB that a soverign nation has a right to choose it's own immigration policies, and, as a result, must live with its consequences.

Also, I might be going out on a limb, but I think countries (particularly socialist ones like Switzerland) want to be certain that a new citizen will be able to assimilate and contribute to their new homeland as opposed to being a drain on their society. It's unfair and arrogant to think that the American way is the best way.

If I recall correctly, it's nearly impossible for non-Japanese to become Japanese citizens. I remember reading an article about a white American who married a Japanese national, and still had trouble becoming a citizen.

Japan is a very extreme case, and they put huge weight on being native. Japanese will consider a Japanese native to be "less Japanese" if they live overseas for too long, like 5-10 years. Their attitudes go very, very deep.

So then the only way to guarantee that immigration outcomes are not 'racist' is to have the decisions made by a regulated and transparent 'institution'....on behalf of the people...but not by them?

Sounds suspiciously like a court system to me and it's been done that way in the good ol USA for centuries. I don't see how it's democratic or undemocratic. Besides, the US is a republic.

Do they allow dual citizenship? If not, why bother? I think they are Schengen and they probably honor an EU visa without being a member state. What is the upside to Swiss citizenship? voting in their federal elections?

Interesting as I'm considering becoming a swiss citizen. Should be much easier for me since my wife is already one.

What is the upside to Swiss citizenship? voting in their federal elections?

A free knife, and a map to the chocolate river.

Do they allow dual citizenship? If not, why bother? I think they are Schengen and they probably honor an EU visa without being a member state. What is the upside to Swiss citizenship? voting in their federal elections?

My wife is a dual citizenship. The reason I want to become one is that the citizenship is passed down paternally so that my children and possibly generations more would continue that on. Seems pretty cool to me and I've always thought about living in Europe for awhile. After I become a doctor I'll be a much more attractive candidate.

"Awhile?" Why not forever? Once you live in europe, you will not want to live in the US again (but it is a great place to visit). My kid has dual citizenship, but he was born here (Norway).

My wife is a dual citizenship. The reason I want to become one is that the citizenship is passed down paternally so that my children and possibly generations more would continue that on. Seems pretty cool to me and I've always thought about living in Europe for awhile. After I become a doctor I'll be a much more attractive candidate.

It may turn out to be forever, we'll see. Just trying to get through all these stupid molecular pathways for right now. :)

Does the state have an interest in mitigating the racism of it's citizens? Changing the outcomes of racist actions, if not changing the mind of racists? Different question.

It is part of liberal-secular doctrine that this is correct is it not? You asked a rhetorical question.

A few interesting thoughts:

If the outcome of the Swiss immigration system is less favorable to people of different race/religion etc, is this necessarily a function of race/religion or a less tangible one of 'values' (for want of a better word)?

If the Swiss value a cohesive society it would be logical that they desire a certain uniformity of 'values' amongst the citizenry. Is it not possible, that taken as a whole, Muslims and people from North Africa are less likely to share those 'values'?

"Awhile?" Why not forever? Once you live in europe, you will not want to live in the US again (but it is a great place to visit). My kid has dual citizenship, but he was born here (Norway).

I'm jealous my friend of you living in Norway. After visiting Sweden and Norway a few years back for about a month or so for work, I didn't want to leave. Unfortunately, I'm still stuck here in the US, which isn't that bad really. Still, I think I'd dig living in Scandinavian type countries.

So then the only way to guarantee that immigration outcomes are not 'racist' is to have the decisions made by a regulated and transparent 'institution'....on behalf of the people...but not by them?

Another example of how people can favor democracy until it does not yield the outcome they desire.
So if the majority of people in the south want to legalize slavery again, the democracy has spoken and they should be able to do it? :rolleyes:

So if the majority of people in the south want to legalize slavery again, the democracy has spoken and they should be able to do it? :rolleyes:

On what grounds would you prevent it......assuming it is constitutional?

On what grounds would you prevent it......assuming it is constitutional?


If there was enough support to amend the Constitution....

If there was enough support to amend the Constitution....

True, and one is either in favor of democracy or one is not? Surely ones favor cannot be conditional upon outcomes?

True, and one is either in favor of democracy or one is not? Surely ones favor cannot be conditional upon outcomes?

I agree. Part of the price of democracy is that, sometimes, stupidity wins the day.

I agree. Part of the price of democracy is that, sometimes, stupidity wins the day.

Yep..

http://www.shelleytherepublican.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/mission_accomplished.jpg