I'm looking at Neuvation M28 1720 grams and the Neuvation R28SL3 1540 grams.

I want strong wheels as I'm 215 lbs. and I don't want broken spokes or cracked aluminum rims at the spokes. I have an inexpensive bike that came with inexpensive wheels and one rear wheel, Alex R500, I've broken 13 spokes and then the wheel was replaced with a Mavic Open Pro 1? 2? 3? and I had a cracked rim in around 3 different spokes plus I've broken 5 spokes on that wheel. That wheel was replaced by another Mavic Open Pro and I've also broken 4 spokes on that wheel. Since I bought a Park Tensionmeter to make sure the tension is uniform and correct and broke 2 spokes.

I'm wondering would I feel the difference pedaling a set of wheels with 1540 grams versus a pair that weighed 1720 grams. Is that a lot of weight? or enough to feel the difference?

II'm wondering would I feel the difference pedaling a set of wheels with 1540 grams versus a pair that weighed 1720 grams. Is that a lot of weight? or enough to feel the difference?

http://www.biketechreview.com/archive/wheel_theory.htm

I'm wondering would I feel the difference pedaling a set of wheels with 1540 grams versus a pair that weighed 1720 grams. Is that a lot of weight? or enough to feel the difference?

Given your experiences, I think you are an excellent candidate for some Deep Vs with plenty of double butted spokes. You need some strong wheels. Light rims may "feel" lighter but the actual speed difference is pretty small... even when climbing, which is where weight matters.

Given your experiences, I think you are an excellent candidate for some Deep Vs with plenty of double butted spokes. You need some strong wheels. Light rims may "feel" lighter but the actual speed difference is pretty small... even when climbing, which is where weight matters.

What he said. You can find Mavic Cosmic Carbones on eBay for 'round $1000, and that's a stellar wheelset: aero, strong, and aero.

I seriously doubt you would feel that difference in weight. Check asgelle's link to biketechreview for a great analysis. I ride 4k miles/yr and honestly cannot feel a 200g weight difference between similar wheels. OTOH- I can readily appreciate a 600+g difference between 2 of my otherwise similar wheelsets. (older Gipiemme T3's 30mm rim @2300g vs Neuvation R28aero's 27mm@1630g). Even that is not a huge effect, but it is noticeable.

As far as the Neuvations you mention, with your size the M28's might be a better choice. Stouter rim so it should hold up better. You might just e-mail John at Neuvation and ask for his opinion. My Neuvation R28aero's are great wheels at a very fair price (although I ride at 165#). BTW- It's not fair to compare those with Cosmic Carbones or other deep-V's at multiples of the Neuvation's price ($3-400 new vs $1000+ used). BTW- Most objective testing suggests the difference in aerodynamics between a moderately aero set up (e.g. 25-30mm rim with 18-20 bladed spokes) and top-line deep V's is significantly smaller than most would have you believe (small fraction of 1mph at 25+mph assuming same power by the cyclist). Important to serious racers, but essentially bling to the recreational rider.

I sent John 2 emails with the same info. About a month or two ago he said the R28SL3 would be fine for me. Now in a recent email he said the M28 would be the wheels and the R28SL3 wouldn't do. I think he doesn't want a returned wheel and any complaints about his company. Of course I want the lightest wheels possible that will do the job.

Of course I want the lightest wheels possible that will do the job.

Confucius says: "man who 'want the lightest wheels possible that will do the job' is on a fool's errand." How on earth could one define this magical point? In practice, as this forum will attest, there are a lot of people who are on (for them) stupid light wheels and are having all kinds of problems with them. Since these wheels offer only the barest minimum of performance improvement and often cost a lot of money, one has to wonder what the point of pushing this particular envelope might be.

Here's something to think about: the weight difference you're asking about is 180 grams, or about 6.5 ounces. That's less than half a pound. I weigh myself every day, at the same time and under the same conditions, and my body weight can easily change by 2 pounds from one day to the next. I don't feel any faster on my "light" days than my "heavy" days.

The lighter wheels may very well feel different, but to quote someone writing in a different context, "does the difference make a difference?" That is, is the difference important to you? Only you can answer that, but for me, breaking spokes reduces the enjoyment of my ride a lot more than being a little faster increases it.

HTH

I understand what you are saying about body weight but is bike weight different? I can feel that I'm faster on a carbon bike with light wheels and minimal accessories attached to it compared to my heavier aluminum bike with 2 cyclometers, 2 water bottles and holders, rear rack, aluminum seat post, al stem, al handlebars, heavier wheels, 700x25 tires. The heavier bike I am expending a lot more energy. So having a 5 pound or 10 pound heavier bike is a substantial difference than carrying an extra 5 or 10 pounds of weight on your body.

I weight 215 pounds now, down from 225 in the spring. I use to do a lot of boxing, 5-7 days a week. Early this summer when I lost 5 pounds to 220, I did a little boxing in my yard with a friend and I felt much much lighter on my feet with the lost of 5 pounds. I'm now 215 and I even feel lighter on my feet.

1/2 pound? The bike is heavier but it's rolling weight. I'm not sure.

I understand what you are saying about body weight but is bike weight different?
Maybe. It's possible that my daily body weight fluctuations are due to hydration, so the days when I'm heavier I'm actually better hydrated, and maybe the weight penalty is offset by the positive effects of better hydration. Conversely, any weight on the bike is just dead weight.

Still, I think most of us put way too much emphasis on the weight of our bikes. Three Powerbars weigh 180 grams. Do you really feel slower riding with three Powerbars in your pocket?

So having a 5 pound or 10 pound heavier bike is a substantial difference than carrying an extra 5 or 10 pounds of weight on your body.

Actually no... there is no difference.

well what you are trying to change by getting a lighter wheel is its moment of inertia. If mass is decreased closer to the axis of rotation (hub, spokes) it would be less noticeable in terms of acceleration than if that mass is further away (rim, tire, tube). At sustained speeds though I'd assume the weight wouldn't be noticeable at all.

Given your experiences, I think you are an excellent candidate for some Deep Vs with plenty of double butted spokes. You need some strong wheels. Light rims may "feel" lighter but the actual speed difference is pretty small... even when climbing, which is where weight matters.

+1. If you've broken more than 20 spokes, wouldn't you be more concerned about reliability than weight? 100-200 grams would be the last thing on my mind if I was stranded in the boonies with no cell reception.