In the post-Lance era, here are the GT winners

2005 Vuelta - Heras - suspended for EPO
2006 Giro - Basso - suspended for ties to Fuentes
2006 Tour - Landis - suspended for abnormal T/E ratio
2006 Vuelta - Vino - suspended for blood doping
2007 Giro - DiLuca - suspended for dies to Cecchini
2007 Tour - Contador - suspected ties to Puerto, Rasmussen fired
2007 Vuelta - Menchov - ????

In the post-Lance era, here are the GT winners

1995 Vuelta - Heras - suspended for EPO
1996 Giro - Basso - suspended for ties to Fuentes
1996 Tour - Landis - suspended for abnormal T/E ratio
1996 Vuelta - Vino - suspended for blood doping
1997 Giro - DiLuca - suspended for dies to Cecchini
1997 Tour - Contador - suspected ties to Puerto, Rasmussen fired
1998 Vuelta - Menchov - ????

Wow....Contador won the Tour when he was what?....14 years old?

Are you sure those are not from the 2005, 2006, 2007 Vuelta, Giro and Tour?

Wow....Contador won the Tour when he was what?....14 years old?

Are you sure those are not from the 2005, 2006, 2007 Vuelta, Giro and Tour?

the words "post-Lance" might have been a clue.

DiLuca was suspended for collaborating with Santuccione not Cecchini.

Rasmussen's blood in the Tour had Dynepo in it in later testing.

Lance was still racing in 2005.

the words "post-Lance" might have been a clue.

One would think....Post = After...

However, all the dates he listed are "PRE" Lance.....:D

Rasmussen's blood in the Tour had Dynepo in it in later testing.

We have no idea what was in Rasmussen's blood. All we know is that a report was leaked saying an unproven test with no recognized protocol showed a positive result. That data is as reliable as flipping a coin. Wait, I just flipped one twice, negative both times. Does that mean the Dynepo wasn't there after all?

Where do the decades go? Or, am I truly living in the future?

I don't approve of doping, but the temptation has to be overwhelming. Most forum contributors here just aren't anywhere near good enough for European GT racing no matter how much we doped, but an analogy (which I didn't come up with) that might be a bit easier to relate to- imagine you're a stock broker, and by just taking a pill you could become the world's greatest stock broker. Would you be tempted?

Ooops. Fixed the dates now. Not sure what I was thinking there!

so whats your point? menchov btw has a pretty clean bill of health...rasmussen i believe was screwed over and this business of a false positive for some drug in his blood is bullshit. it seems pro cycling is the only sport that is allowed to violate your human rights. fired with no proof(he could have lied about his whereabouts based on fear of the reaction by the uci and his team which is exactly what happened)and these reports of false positive drug tests is like saying "WE THINK THERE ARE DRUGS BUT CAN'T POSITIVELY SAY YES THERE ARE DRUGS BUT WE'RE GONNA SAY YES BUT ITS ACTUALLY MAYBE AND IN THE MEANTIME WHETHER THERE ARE DRUGS OR NOT THE MEDIA WILL GET NOTIFIED AND THE SUSPECT WILL BE VILIFIED REGARDLESS OF HIS GUILT OR INNOCENCE"

so whats your point? menchov btw has a pretty clean bill of health...rasmussen i believe was screwed over and this business of a false positive for some drug in his blood is bullshit. it seems pro cycling is the only sport that is allowed to violate your human rights. fired with no proof(he could have lied about his whereabouts based on fear of the reaction by the uci and his team which is exactly what happened)and these reports of false positive drug tests is like saying "WE THINK THERE ARE DRUGS BUT CAN'T POSITIVELY SAY YES THERE ARE DRUGS BUT WE'RE GONNA SAY YES BUT ITS ACTUALLY MAYBE AND IN THE MEANTIME WHETHER THERE ARE DRUGS OR NOT THE MEDIA WILL GET NOTIFIED AND THE SUSPECT WILL BE VILIFIED REGARDLESS OF HIS GUILT OR INNOCENCE"

he was fired because he misled his DS and was creating problems for the bank-you'll recall it was they who initiated his firing. if you lie to your boss regarding a substantive matter and make your sponsors look bad while doing so you'll get fired in any other occupation too.

so whats your point? menchov btw has a pretty clean bill of health...rasmussen i believe was screwed over and this business of a false positive for some drug in his blood is bullshit. it seems pro cycling is the only sport that is allowed to violate your human rights. fired with no proof(he could have lied about his whereabouts based on fear of the reaction by the uci and his team which is exactly what happened)and these reports of false positive drug tests is like saying "WE THINK THERE ARE DRUGS BUT CAN'T POSITIVELY SAY YES THERE ARE DRUGS BUT WE'RE GONNA SAY YES BUT ITS ACTUALLY MAYBE AND IN THE MEANTIME WHETHER THERE ARE DRUGS OR NOT THE MEDIA WILL GET NOTIFIED AND THE SUSPECT WILL BE VILIFIED REGARDLESS OF HIS GUILT OR INNOCENCE"

Blah, blah, blah....
BLAH! BLAHBLAHBLAH!

Yep, nothing here.... just move along folks.

True believers are kind of sweet.

don't get me wrong here guys...doping sucks and so do those who cheat...but the people who run this sport are trying so hard to clean it up that everybody seems to be getting tarred and feathered at the mere hint of wrong doing.

Dynepo is extremely easy to detect because it is NOT molecularly the same as endogenous EPO. The problem is every molecular change requires a new test and it takes time to develop and validate, and then increasing amounts of money to run an ever larger panel of tests, which is one of the reasons they have started using watch lists and targeted testing of suspicious riders.

If you are going to bet on these things the odds of false positives in dope testing are quite low because the standards for positive results are skewed in the athlete's favor. Even with Hamilton's blood transfusions the samples weren't declared positive until there was above a certain % showing foreign (I think they used >1% as the cutoff).

Antigen based tests are hard to foul up too. Either it binds to its target or it doesn't. Gross miscalibration would lead to the majority of samples tested being positive, not just one rider, which hasn't been the case. Contamination would be the most likely way for a false positive result but since everyone is innocent there is no place for the positive contaminant to come from. ;-)

don't get me wrong here guys...doping sucks and so do those who cheat...but the people who run this sport are trying so hard to clean it up that everybody seems to be getting tarred and feathered at the mere hint of wrong doing.

Amen.