Made a decision after way too much contemplation to go with a custom Seven. Agonized over it far more than I probably needed to. Understand that I almost gave up on road bikes. Raced mountain bikes for years and every time I tried road riding, I could never get comfortable on a bike, no matter what I tried - figured I had some bizarre body geometry. I'm 5'10-1/2" tall...

Bought a beautiful 57cm Ti LeMond Tete De Course. By all calculations and measurements, the bike's fit was spot on, slam dunk right? Wrong! Couldn't ride that thing for more than 10 mi. and my back, shoulders, neck, wrists would scream. Bike handled funny, felt like the bike was riding me if you know what I mean. Beautiful bike but sold it for a loss.

Went to the Trek store for more punishment. They fit me on a 58cm. carbon 5200. I said to the salesman, "thing feels big, too stretched out." "Nope, nope, that's what you should be on" he tells me. "Gotta be laid out over that top tube ya know, that's what's fast." Same thing...rode the bike for a month or two. I really tried. Hated that bike, riding it was physical torture. Again, beautiful bike but sold it for a loss.

Must be a freak, gave up on road bikes and climbed back on to my Klein mountain bike to ride for hours in complete comfort...

Friends harass me, "get a road bike and ride with us you sissy." "They don't make one I can ride." It was suggested I try something custom and there just happened to be a well respected outfit here in Madison, Wisconsin. Just money, I'll give this nonsense one last try.

Long story short, went through the whole ordeal of building a custom Seven Alaris and, until the end I was still skeptical.

Seven put me on a 54.5cm effective top tube with about a 6 degree slope. Huh? Can't be? No bike shop in the known universe would have put me on that bike. Waaayyyyy too short! I understand that many, many dimensions come into play here, not just inseam, tob tube, stack height, whatever. I figured I would trust the process and had the bike built.

Damn thing is pure magic. I've been in the saddle on this bike for over five hours, and yes I was fatigued for sure, but not hurting If you know what I mean. No back pain, no neck pain, no shoulder pain - nothing. Felt almost fresh, could have went longer.

How can this be? This geometry goes against every fit system I've found. The best way to explain it is that if I were to put myself in the most natural riding position, it's like the bike was drawn in under me. The bike's not a factor anymore - don't even notice it's there.

So what does Seven know that others don't? What system are they using? Why isn't it more common or widely used?

"thing feels big, too stretched out."

You said it yourself above. The mtb bikes aren't trying to stretch you out over the top tube. Road bikes are suppose to stretch you over the bike. It sounds like your torso is small relative to you leg length. The frame you're currenty happy with would be equivalent to the 53cm lemond frame instead of the 57 you had. Having the wrong sizes gives you the problems you described. Not for all people, but it does.

I'm 5' 11". I went to a Serotta Certified Fitter recently. His calculations were that a 54cm was right for me. I think that's a little small and I'm going to go to another Serotta Certified Fitter before I order a custom Ti frame. I think I'm a 55 or 56cm. My current ride is 57cm and it's relatively comfortable, no pain, I've done 105 miles on it, regularly ride 40-70 miles several times a week without any pain and I'm not flexible but feel the bike is a little long.

So compare your height to mine, a 54.5cm may not be far off. Unless you are taller than me, the two bikes you've had are much too long. The Seven fitter may be right.

:D It's not that Seven knows anything unique to their brand, it's just a different and more organic way at looking at how a body moves thru space on a bike frame. But it certainly sounds lilke the guy/gal who sized you in beautiful Madison knows his stuff and got you on the perfect ride.

One would "hope" that this 'magic system' would be more widely used, as we all know, true knowledge in bike shops can be an elusive thing.

Don't get hung up on the seat tube/inseam measurement as the sole arbiter of what is 'right' for you. Rev. and Lawrence are correct in saying that your Lemond was too long in the top tube, and the Trek staff were only looking at an inseam number to determine your frame size. Cervelo has good info on how they look at fitting (stack and reach); similar techniques are utilised by Serotta/SICI certified fitters too.

However, torso/inseam proportion, arm length, and above all, pelvic flexion are huge factors in how you want to ride. I'm only guessing, but I'd say you have a 100mm or 110mm stem on your lovely new Seven? On the Trek/Lemond, they probably suggested putting shorter and shorter stems on to make it 'fit'; this is the wrong way of looking at true fit, and only accomplishes causing fits.

I'm 5' 11". I went to a Serotta Certified Fitter recently. His calculations were that a 54cm was right for me. I think that's a little small and I'm going to go to another Serotta Certified Fitter before I order a custom Ti frame. I think I'm a 55 or 56cm. My current ride is 57cm and it's relatively comfortable, no pain, I've done 105 miles on it, regularly ride 40-70 miles several times a week without any pain and I'm not flexible but feel the bike is a little long.

So compare your height to mine, a 54.5cm may not be far off. Unless you are taller than me, the two bikes you've had are much too long. The Seven fitter may be right.

You have the same reservations I did. I'm a bit shorter at 5' 10-1/2" and also suspected that a 56cm would be about right. However, it's clear, based on my purchases up to that point that I knew nothing about bike fit. What's even more strange, is that I wasn't fitted with a setback seatpost, so I'm additional 2.5cm forward yet on a 54.5cm frame.

In the end, it turned out well and I couldn't be more happy with the build. Oddly, the shop that built my Seven is also a Serotta dealer.

:D It's not that Seven knows anything unique to their brand, it's just a different and more organic way at looking at how a body moves thru space on a bike frame. But it certainly sounds lilke the guy/gal who sized you in beautiful Madison knows his stuff and got you on the perfect ride.

One would "hope" that this 'magic system' would be more widely used, as we all know, true knowledge in bike shops can be an elusive thing.

Don't get hung up on the seat tube/inseam measurement as the sole arbiter of what is 'right' for you. Rev. and Lawrence are correct in saying that your Lemond was too long in the top tube, and the Trek staff were only looking at an inseam number to determine your frame size. Cervelo has good info on how they look at fitting (stack and reach); similar techniques are utilised by Serotta/SICI certified fitters too.

However, torso/inseam proportion, arm length, and above all, pelvic flexion are huge factors in how you want to ride. I'm only guessing, but I'd say you have a 100mm or 110mm stem on your lovely new Seven? On the Trek/Lemond, they probably suggested putting shorter and shorter stems on to make it 'fit'; this is the wrong way of looking at true fit, and only accomplishes causing fits.

Yes, most clairvoyant! 100mm on my Seven and 90mm on the Lemond...

I'd say this is yet another reason to find a good fitter and stick with them. Even though at 5'10" you are supposedly in the wheel house of "stock sizes", it didn't work for you because of your unique situation. It's likely that you could have fit on a smaller Lemond or Trek, but the guys who sold you the bike were a little lazy in their fit analysis. I'm happy you are now riding the road. If you can ride a mtn bike for hours, no reason you can't do it on the road too.

FWIW, I'm 6'5" and the $100 I spent on the Serotta fit system was the best $100 I've spent on cycling since I've been riding.

And don't you know that if you get a new bike, you MUST post pics! You also didn't tell us what frame you got or how you fitted it out. Tsk, tsk, tsk. :)

Yes! Please do post pics of your Seven.

And don't you know that if you get a new bike, you MUST post pics! You also didn't tell us what frame you got or how you fitted it out. Tsk, tsk, tsk. :)[/QUOTE]

For sure...pics soon.

I'm 6' tall and I ride a 53 custom Serotta with 57 top tube with 110mm stem
I also have a Time VXR Proteam (medium with 120mm stem) and it fits me very well.
I think the size of the seat tube is important but so are the top tube length, stem length, st/ht angle, reach, fork rake and last but not least your flexibility.

Glad to hear that you found the bike that fits you.

cpark,

53 custom Serotta with 57 top tube with 110mm stem

Sounds like your proportion is mostly torso?

Sort of. I know that 56 to 57 top tube fits me fine.
In order for me to get that that usually take 58 frame which I find it just too big.
That's why I used to get custom bike but the compact geometry changed all that.
The bike just feels siffer and snappier with the smaller triabgle (shorter seat tube and shorter head tube). One other thing, I was gifted with the great flexibility (just about only thing I was gifted with in terms of cyclng physiology). Therefore, I tried to get the bike with shortest head tube possible.

:D It's not that Seven knows anything unique to their brand, it's just a different and more organic way at looking at how a body moves thru space on a bike frame. But it certainly sounds lilke the guy/gal who sized you in beautiful Madison knows his stuff and got you on the perfect ride.

One would "hope" that this 'magic system' would be more widely used, as we all know, true knowledge in bike shops can be an elusive thing.

Don't get hung up on the seat tube/inseam measurement as the sole arbiter of what is 'right' for you. Rev. and Lawrence are correct in saying that your Lemond was too long in the top tube, and the Trek staff were only looking at an inseam number to determine your frame size. Cervelo has good info on how they look at fitting (stack and reach); similar techniques are utilised by Serotta/SICI certified fitters too.

However, torso/inseam proportion, arm length, and above all, pelvic flexion are huge factors in how you want to ride. I'm only guessing, but I'd say you have a 100mm or 110mm stem on your lovely new Seven? On the Trek/Lemond, they probably suggested putting shorter and shorter stems on to make it 'fit'; this is the wrong way of looking at true fit, and only accomplishes causing fits.
So in an era where head tubes are too low/short for real world flexability of most of us, how would you suggest getting the right fit on a stock bike? Small bike with a real tall stem? - TF

Hi Celt, Just curious whats your inseam lenght? I am your same hight.

Hi Celt, Just curious whats your inseam lenght? I am your same hight.

Geez, I think it was 33-1/2"

And don't you know that if you get a new bike, you MUST post pics! You also didn't tell us what frame you got or how you fitted it out. Tsk, tsk, tsk. :)

I'll catch some grief for the dirty mess it's in, but some pics of my Alaris...

Nice bike. Beautiful welds on those drop-outs and, the overall craftsmanship looks really good on this bike - as it does on all Sevens that I have seen.

Nice bike. Beautiful welds on those drop-outs and, the overall craftsmanship looks really good on this bike - as it does on all Sevens that I have seen.

What's really strange is that even non-cyclist know Ti is something special. We have a bike to work week like many offices. Whenever I bring a Ti bike in co-workers look at the the frame and somehow know that's it's not aluminum, it's not steel, or that it's something different than anything they've seen. One geek told another that it was "Mithril"

"All folk desired it. It could be beaten like copper, and polished like glass; and the Dwarves could make of it a metal, light and yet harder than tempered steel. Its beauty was like to that of common silver, but the beauty of mithril did not tarnish or grow dim."

Yeah, same impression I get when I see Ti frames...at least the desire part.

I'll catch some grief for the dirty mess it's in, but some pics of my Alaris...


That bike is FAR too dirty and you have been deemed unfit to own a Seven! SEND IT TO ME NOW!!! ;)

That bike is FAR too dirty and you have been deemed unfit to own a Seven! SEND IT TO ME NOW!!! ;)

I'm a short fat guy, probably wouldn't fit you...

lol I hear you, so am I. Well, for now anyways. I just got a new id8 myself, so hopefully the fat will be going going gone soon.

Hey Celt, just who is this great fitter in Madison? A buddy of mine just went to Mad-town and got fit for an Independent Fabrication bike & raved about the shop. Wundering if it iz the same...

I'm looking at Specialized Tarmac SL & love that bike, but an intrigued by what you said

Hey Celt, just who is this great fitter in Madison? A buddy of mine just went to Mad-town and got fit for an Independent Fabrication bike & raved about the shop. Wundering if it iz the same...

I'm looking at Specialized Tarmac SL & love that bike, but an intrigued by what you said

It was Cronometro...

http://www.cronometro.com/