http://eurosport.yahoo.com/26102007/58/kashechkin-fights-ban.html

"The Kazakh claims he did not inject his own blood to enhance his performance, and has protested the legitimacy of the principle of being tested by the sports authorities."


He didn't inject his own as Vino mistakenly used it in the tour. :crazy:

He had used Vino's by mistake! :cool:

:cornut:

This is pretty much the same argument used by Lance... "I never tested positive".

Just tell a true statement, when denying anything.

It's taken 10 years from the initial movements to limit doping to return to the arguements of Jalabert and company which were basically we are professionals and should be allowed to do whatever we want to perform our job.

I don't understand Kashechkin's argument that drug testing is a human rights violation. Participating in cycling is completely voluntary, and he can decide not to participate at any time. Choosing to participate means accepting the rules, and the rules include drug testing.

Couldn't the same argument be made about driving? Nobody forces you to drive, but if you do want to drive, you have to accept and follow the rules of the road, which includes submitting to sobriety tests and may include financial requirements, such as mandatory insurance. Are these human rights violations?



I'm not sure how "I didn't do it" is pretty much the same as "I never tested positive," but at least you got to get Lance's name in there.

I don't understand Kashechkin's argument that drug testing is a human rights violation. Participating in cycling is completely voluntary, and he can decide not to participate at any time. Choosing to participate means accepting the rules, and the rules include drug testing.

your driving analogy is good. Bettini said the same thing, "that handing over a blood sample is akin to giving up one's basic human rights", last month. they're desperate. and desperate times call for desperate measures.

I'm not sure how "I didn't do it" is pretty much the same as "I never tested positive," but at least you got to get Lance's name in there.

I thought I made that clear?

Umm, Kashechkin said he didn't inject HIS OWN BLOOD.

I was saying - this is a TRUE STATEMENT, since he injected VINO's (something he might know). (And vino got Andy's at the TdF).

So saying TRUE statements like Lance Armstrong (I never tested positive), is a way to look good and appear to be telling the truth.

I am actually routing for him to win this case.

If he wins that will upon up the door for me to suggest my employees use "performance enhancing drugs" (crank). Production rates will go through the roof and the addiction means they'll never want to go home! MooooHAHAHAHAAHA!

I thought I made that clear?

I got ya.

"I never injected my own blood"(as it was actually Vino's)

Same as Lance's:

(I've put a load of illegal sh!t in my body but) "I've never tested positive"

Successful Lies 101.

Im glad he lost the first round, he could throw all sports drug testing to scrap heep. I say life ban if you dont like the testing that we are all subject to when we sign up for a licence then dont get a licence, no more racing for kas.

You do not have to submit to a breathalyser, though. Bad analogy.

I'm getting to the point where I'm wonder why can't we just take football's stance on doping. Don't check and give long announcements beforehand. At least it would be fascinating and might save the sport....

Here's the link: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/nov07/nov29news

He didn't really lose. The Belgians just told him to take the case to Switzerland, because they had no jurisdiction. They also said his case was silly and stupid, but that only counts if a Swiss court says it. Then they adjourned for frites with mayonnaise and beer made by Trappist monks.

There are good reasons why there are limits to authority in a free society. It's clear to me that these reasons are no longer understood or valued which allows the limits that do exist to be eroded.

I think there should be some limits on the governing authority.

There is only one sure way to stop doping in professional bicycle racing & that is to end professional bicycle racing.

Best of luck to those who support prohibition, it has such a fabulous record of success!

I am just getting back into cycling but I am deeply troubled by this whole problem. Cycling as a sport is getting drug through the mud and losing sponsors left and right. I wouldn't touch cycling with a 10ft pole if I wanted to spend marketing dollars right now.

What is the solution? Is there a point where enough people are caught that usage drops? Is testing this often just setting cycling up for failure by finding everyone is using?

I don't really know, but every time they catch someone and ban them or they are kicked off the team all it does is bring the sport down a notch and provide negative publicity for the sponsors. If they caught no one it actually would be better from the publicity point of view.

This just totally sucks. I would rather watch athletes on drugs duke it out in the tour then watch riders packing their bags mid-tour from a positive drug test and their entire team pull from the tour.

There is only one sure way to stop doping in professional bicycle racing & that is to end professional bicycle racing.
This would stop nothing. In amateur races they use more drugs, because there are fewer tests.

I don't think there should be limits on private bodies or persons over their own property or agreements. Government authority is what I worry about since theirs is always an offer you can't refuse, on penalty of death.

You could always start your own governing body for cycling if you don't like the rules of the current one. Though there have been denials from the likely rebels it seems we aren't too far away from that right now.

Of course Kash didn't inject his own blood. If he had he wouldn't have been caught. It definitely wasn't Vino's blood though. The whole point of using someone else's blood is that you avoid the down time from donating yourself and the EPO used to get back to normal quickly. I'm not sure if they were trying to penny pinch or just bet the wrong way on which route was more likely to lead to them getting caught. Either way it looks pretty stupid at this point.

There is only one sure way to stop doping in professional bicycle racing & that is to end professional bicycle racing.

This would stop nothing. In amateur races they use more drugs, because there are fewer tests.

If you interpret it correctly it will "stop doping in professional racing."
But really my point is no one is going to stop drug use. No government, not the UCI, DEA, Interpol.....
I may be wrong considering that some communist/totalitarian governments when so inclined have had better results on limiting and diminishing the use of illicit drugs, China’s handling of their opium problems would be a good example but that’s not a world I would want to live in not even if they are “doing it for the children”.

Im glad he lost the first round, he could throw all sports drug testing to scrap heep. I say life ban if you dont like the testing that we are all subject to when we sign up for a licence then dont get a licence, no more racing for kas.

That's allright with Kash losing the 1st round, but nobody wants him to take to the Court of European Human Righs. There his case looks a lot more better, due to the different way they might look at his case. The other trump card that he has got is that his lawyer is Luc Misson, who is very clever at getting his view point across. Misson revolutionised the way employees on sporting teams were treated from a contractual point of view. He created the (football/soccer) term free agent and kicked UEFA' and FIFA' (governing bodies) ass.

rjsd, you are of course right. My point is that the system has nothing to do with the problem. The racing brings us back to our roots and maybe that’s why we like it so much. There, the imperative to win, to exert one’s supremacy is so strong, that nothing else matters.

That's allright with Kash losing the 1st round, but nobody wants him to take to the Court of European Human Righs. There his case looks a lot more better, due to the different way they might look at his case. The other trump card that he has got is that his lawyer is Luc Misson, who is very clever at getting his view point across. Misson revolutionised the way employees on sporting teams were treated from a contractual point of view. He created the (football/soccer) term free agent and kicked UEFA' and FIFA' (governing bodies) ass.

You are correct, Misson is a smart guy who has changed sport....but he has no chance with this case

I think it takes a lot of money and effort to run a successful covert drug doping program. With the big sponsors out, that money won't be there and I actually do believe it will lessen the amount of doping in professional cycling.