I have Paul neo-retro front, touring rear canti's. No complaints. I'm simply curious about cable hangers, as I've seen the same brakes with alternate cable hangers (see attached pic). I believe I've also seen other brands of cantis w/non original hangers. What are the advantages - better leverage/performance, less weight, both?

Thanks,

are you talking about the straddle cable yoke? wider is to get low-profile cantis to work better (I'm sure someone else can/will provide the details)... not sure why it would be needed with those neos

are you talking about the straddle cable yoke? wider is to get low-profile cantis to work better (I'm sure someone else can/will provide the details)... not sure why it would be needed with those neos

Yes, I guess I meant to say "straddle cable yoke". Like you, I wasn't sure why it was being used w/the neos. I could see it more w/the touring, but surprisingly, the Speedvagen shows it using the stock straddle cable yoke. Go figure.

The stock hardware supplied with the Pauls is functional, but kind of cheap looking and not that easy to set up. The Salsa's pictured on the Speedvagen look nicer. I also have a set of Spookys which I like because they do not require two box wrenches to set-up. I am currently using the TRP style which have a few more anchor points to keep your adjustments from getting tweaked.

I have a set or Paul Moon Units which I do not use because I found that the soft aluminum body could not hold the cable without overtightening and mashing the cable. Even on the display board that Paul Comp puts up at trade shows, the cables are mashed and frayed. :skep:

None of these offer a significant performance advantage with Neo Retros, but some look nicer and isn't that what it is all about? :D

Actually, wideer would provide less power and more modulation if I am thinking correctly (I have had my coffee). If you look at the rear brake setup (barely visible) it has the standard yoke that is supplied by Paul - with the Touring Canti you have less power (than the Neo Retro) so you would want a narrower yoke to compensate.

The way a mechanic at my lbs explained it to me was this:

They increase cable pull. You can set your pads wider and have the same amount of power or you can set you pads in the same place and have more power.

I got a pair for my Shimano cantis and they allowed me to set the pads noticeably wider (more mud clearance) and still have power that is as good or better than the same brakes with the stock hangers. I agree they would be more beneficial with a low profile rather than wide profile canti, but I've only tried them with my Shimanos.

Exactly the same result as a long(er) straddle cable.
Less power, but better modulation/feel/cable pull/brakepad clearance (depending on the setup).

But sometimes you don't have the space to make the straddle cable long (enough) due to the position of the outer cable stopper (on frame, fork, stem, headset, etc), so the wide "thing" may help you out.

Exactly the same result as a long(er) straddle cable.
Less power, but better modulation/feel/cable pull/brakepad clearance (depending on the setup).

But sometimes you don't have the space to make the straddle cable long (enough) due to the position of the outer cable stopper (on frame, fork, stem, headset, etc), so the wide "thing" may help you out.


EXACTLY. Cable set up is not rocket science. Its vector mechanics/forces. Whats your vector Victor? Having spent a semester having to solve mechanical engineering problems GRAPHICALLY (yes, with pencils and rulers and protractors) I think I can say that it all comes down to the angle of the straddle cable relative to the arm and the braked cable (well, ok, we can assume the brake cable is vertical and thus constant).

Max power is going to occur with max "X" direction force translaion. The brake cable is "Y" axis force, and converts into two vector forces at the brake arm/post. The Y component goes into your fork and is wasted energy. The X component pushes the brake arm into the rim. The magnitude of these two forces is defined by the angle of the straddle cable. At 45 degrees they are equal. The steeper the straddle cable, the greater the Y force (wasted) and the flatter the straddle cable, the greater the X force (hence the V brake/linear pull brake with noodle and no straddle). When added, with their tensions and angles, they equal the brake cable tension and direction (in a vector mathmatics world). That is, for an MTB style canti.

The Cross/Euro cantis like the Spooky/Mafac/Empellas have the cable pull below the post, creating a rotating mechanism to convert the cable tension into force on the pad. In the case of these brakes, the Y component of the cable pull is dominant on brake pad force. If you could pull straight up on the arm (assuming its horizontal/max lever length) then you would convert almost all the cable tension into brake force as the pivot converts the Y force into an X force and thus brake pad force on rim. Thus, you see these brakes set up with HUGE straddle cables making the angle of the straddle cable relative to the horizontal plane GREATER then 45 degrees. This is the exact opposite of the MTB style canti where you would want the straddle cable as close to horizonal as possible.

Now, you have to factor in tire clearance, pad clearance, cable pull feel, etc to optimize your setup. That is where the wide hanger comes in. It makes the straddle cable angle more vertical without needing more stack height from fork brake post to head tube cable hanger, as it chops off the top of the triangle formed by the straddle cable. Thus, in my opinion, this is the type of hanger to use for a neo retro type brake. In fact, if you were clever (Pauls) you could make a CNC'd hanger that was say 4" wide which would allow almost vertical cable pull at the neo retro with a VERY short straddle cable stack height. Ok, it would probably rip your head tube/fork off cause you would have so damn much power, but it illustrates the forces involved.

Conversely, that is why V brake arms are so TALL. The straddle cable is horizontal so the only thing giving you tire clearance is the arm length. This also increases the mechanical advantage/power of the brake which should translate into better modulation (simplistically).

It is also why I launched over the bars, breaking my carbon handle bar and bruising my collarbone on my first ride after upgrading from XT cantis to V brakes...

Jerry

It is also why I launched over the bars, breaking my carbon handle bar and bruising my collarbone on my first ride after upgrading from XT cantis to V brakes...

Jerry


...and why you should have used a dedicated brake lever.

and he chooses a CF bar for cx

tsk, tsk

...and why you should have used a dedicated brake lever.

i should clarify that i was refering to my mountain bike, many moons ago. _start smack_ I dont fall off my cross bike _end smack_

and he chooses a CF bar for cx

tsk, tsk


again to clarify (and defend my sense of cross-riteousness) - that was on the mountain bike. First and last time...bar ends and carbon bars dont play well together. That was like 10 years ago! Vbrakes are the old school now!

J