HI all,

I have a 2006 Firenze and just recently noticed something about the rear wheel alignment and wanted to run it by the experts. With the rear wheel fully seated in the dropouts it is perfectly centered in the seatstays but approximately 1/8" closer to the left chainstay than it is to the right side. I can loosen the quick release and pull the wheel over to center and lock it in place but eventually it will go back to the original position...where it naturally seems to want to be. I have not had any problems and don't know if it is the wheel, frame or dropouts causing it. Anybody have a similar experience or know if there is any reason to be concerned about this?

Thanks.

T

That's normal IME.

You have a slight frame misalignment. It could be bumped out of alignment, or it's possible that the left chainstay is very slightly longer than the right (by 1/2 mm or so.)

I don't think it's the wheel, but you can take it out and flip it over to check. If the misalingment stays to the left, it's the bike. If it swaps, it's the wheel.

It probably doesn't matter a heck of a lot. If you decide to get it fixed, it'd be best to have a pro check the alignment first. However a bit of filing on the rear of the right dropout should correct the problem. Alternately, the left drop could be filled a small amount, though that's obviously trickier. Of course on a Ti drop that's not going to be an easy task, and one you'd want to go slowly at in any case.

One last thing: look carefully at the design. Sometimes the chainstays aren't centered perfectly on purpose, are different diameters, and similar tricks. It might be that the alignment of the bike is fine as is. I don't think that's the case with the Firenze, but worth a check.

However a bit of filing on the rear of the right dropout should correct the problem. Alternately, the left drop could be filled a small amount, though that's obviously trickier. Of course on a Ti drop that's not going to be an easy task, and one you'd want to go slowly at in any case.


Filing the dropouts is not a solution for a frame with vertical dropouts; the dropout slot will become wider than the axle which can allow the wheel to shift during use.

Filing the dropouts is not a solution for a frame with vertical dropouts; the dropout slot will become wider than the axle which can allow the wheel to shift during use.

I'll give you that it's not the best solution, but it most certainly is a solution.

There are a hell of a lot of fixed gear conversion bikes bearing loads that geared bikes' drivetrains never see, which are using this exact solution to an only slightly different problem.

If this was not a viable solution, horizontal (Campy-style) dropouts would not work at all, which is obviously not true.

Filing the dropouts is not a solution for a frame with vertical dropouts; the dropout slot will become wider than the axle which can allow the wheel to shift during use.

That is the solution. At least, that's the way the Ti builders I've worked with have done it. But I wouldn't recommend doing it yourself: a professional will do it right the first time, and prevent any excessive distortion that could lead to the problem Nessism describes. (Although, if your wheel moves about in the dropouts, your QR levers suck: my Record hubs don't come popping out of the semi-horizontal RS/Technociclo dropouts on my race bike, and under power, according to Nessism, they should do exactly that. Sheldon Brown has some things to say about QR clamping forces, I think...) Litespeed should have done this before the frame left the factory; in my opinion, it's their responsibility.

Having said all that, make sure your wheel is in dish.

That is the solution. At least, that's the way the Ti builders I've worked with have done it. But I wouldn't recommend doing it yourself: a professional will do it right the first time, and prevent any excessive distortion that could lead to the problem Nessism describes. (Although, if your wheel moves about in the dropouts, your QR levers suck: my Record hubs don't come popping out of the semi-horizontal RS/Technociclo dropouts on my race bike, and under power, according to Nessism, they should do exactly that. Sheldon Brown has some things to say about QR clamping forces, I think...) Litespeed should have done this before the frame left the factory; in my opinion, it's their responsibility.

Having said all that, make sure your wheel is in dish.


Filing a vertical dropout to compensate for chainstay length descrepencies is not a good solution since the axle slot will be wider than the axle. With the dropout slot too wide, each time the wheel is installed into the frame the wheel will have to be manually aligned to center it between the chain stays (like a fixed gear). I never said the wheel will "come popping out", but the wheel may shift during use bringing the misalignment back.

I'm a little embarassed to admit this but I've done the file job on a couple of frames I made - leading to the egg shaped dropout slot. I went back and filled the slot with filler metal on one side and smoothed it back out by more filing. In the end, the axle fit snugly, like it should, and did not require any manual involvement to get the wheel properly centered. That's the beauty of vertical dropouts; slam the wheel in the dropout and pushdown on the seat or frame - the wheel will seat itself in the slot and be properly aligned. No fuss.

Filing a vertical dropout to compensate for chainstay length descrepencies is not a good solution since the axle slot will be wider than the axle. With the dropout slot too wide, each time the wheel is installed into the frame the wheel will have to be manually aligned to center it between the chain stays (like a fixed gear). I never said the wheel will "come popping out", but the wheel may shift during useage bringing the misalignment back.

I'm a little embarassed to admit this but I've done the file job on a couple of frames I made - leading to the egg shaped dropout slot. I went back and filled the slot with filler metal though on one side and smoothed it back out by more filing. End the end, the axle fit snugly like it should and did not require any manual involvement to get the wheel properly centered. That's the beauty of vertical dropouts; slam the wheel in the dropout and pushdown on the seat or frame - the wheel will seat itself in the slot and be properly aligned. No fuss.

In practice, it's not all that bad. You simply have to tug backwards when clamping and all is good. With a decent QR adjusted well, it's unlikely to slip. On my fixie, I needed a chainlength solution for vertical drops. I chose to slightly flat one side of the axle rather than messing with the frame. Same effect though, and it works fine. No slipping, and a fixie gets a bunch more stress than a road bike.

As you mention, the front can be filled to compensate, and the problem is solved. But the filing still has to happen.

It's only a problem if it's a problem. Does riding with the wheel 1/8th inch closer to the left chainstay cause any tracking or handling problems? If it doesn't just leave well enough alone. If there's really a problem with tracking or handling I'd contact Litespeed or go through the shop you bought the bike from because this would be a manufacturing defect. From the way you describe the "problem", "I have a 2006 Firenze and just recently noticed something..." it doesn't seem like it's affected anything with the ride of the bike. If that's the case I wouldn't do anything.

Thanks for all the input and ideas. I visited a couple LBS's today and looked at a few bikes sitting on the floor. Here is what I found. On the bikes with close clearances, a difference in spacing from side to side is much more noticable. My bike has very close clearances between the chainstays and the wheel. Many of the bikes I looked at were very much like mine with uneven spacing here. I am talking high end and not so high end frames. I feel a little better now and will just ride with it as is for now.