I am getting ready for my second season of road riding and racing and want to focus this winter on getting my fitness where it needs to be to compete in cat 4/5 races. Last year was kind of a learning (read getting my ass kicked) experience. I did 5 races and only managed to stay with the pack in two of them.

That said, here is where I stand. I definately got better in later summer and fall. I have been less consistent with training the last month or so but havent been doing any racing either. I am 5'11" and 155# and I am a fairly good climber. Which is great for group hill rides, but most of the races I plan to do are either crits or flatter road races.

I get into trouble when the pace ramps up to 25+ for any period of time and I find myself struggling to hold on. Not to mention if I ever get out in the wind.

What types of intervals should I be doing to help improve power on the flats? Is it just a matter or riding more? I really didnt start riding consistently until May which obviously didn't leave much time to build a base, but I want to do things right this year. I am considering picking up a Powertap this winter also to aid my training. Just want to make sure I am doing the right thigns to address my weakness. Thanks

You are considering a purchase of several hundred dollars but don't know if your training plans will actually accomplish your goals? Hire a coach.

You are considering a purchase of several hundred dollars but don't know if your training plans will actually accomplish your goals? Hire a coach.
He doesn't necessarily need to hire a coach. In fact, the Power Tap is an excellent idea. With a Power Tap, you will see a couple of things -- for one, you'll find out what level of exertion equals what level of power output equals how long until you blow. You also will learn that climbing is less a specific skill than it is a power-to-weight issue (and a mental issue). You probably have pretty good power to weight; when you are on the flats, absolute power is more the issue (and aerodynamics). I'll bet you will see that the power demands on the flats are more than going uphill, and you blow on the flats because you can't sustain that level of power.
So, you need to sustain that level of power.
Power is as power does, or something like that. Do intervals that mimic your power output when you blow, and do them as long as you can. Soon you'll be able to do them longer.
It really isn't that hard as some people would like you to think it is.

+1 on the powertap--I started using one this year and it has really changed how I train. Since you describe yourself as a climber, you probably spend most time training in hills. For your race-specific training, you should find a few good flat circuits to train on and add a few interval sessions/week focusing on getting fast on the flats. Use a power-based approach with the powertap. The Allen/Coggan book is a good place to start (even if you buy the powertap you'll most likely want to buy the cyclingpeaks software since it's much better than poweragent). For the flatland interval sessions, you could build a few different ones, from anareobic capacity, vo2max, to neuromuscular power. If you have a business park type area around that doesn't have much traffic, you could make a little circuit with a series of right hand turns and practice coming into the corner at speed (through corner at 20mph) and accelerating up around 30mph out of the corner, then recovering until the next corner. That's a good race skill where beginning racers have a tough time with the speed changes. Good also to have a training partner you can paceline, accelerate around, etc in that drill.

Get the PowerTap, the book and a copy of CyclingPeaks. You just can't fake power output and its WAAAYYYYY more reliable than HR. The first thing you will learn with it is how to "conserve" power. Between my first two rides, I increased my time in the 0-100 watt range by 15%, hence I had the energy left to win the sprint. I normally get dropped before the sprint because I didn't ride smart.

Flash

Arnie Baker, smart cycling. He has very especific workouts, a drills and anything else you can think off. I dont think anyone under cat 1 needs a power meter. A nice bike computer, a quality trainer and time on the bike will get you speed.

Also the book by Dave Morris is great, no real training program just principles. But great stuff in there. You will have to read it at least twice.

After that get any power meter you need and even a coach.:thumbsup:

I am getting ready for my second season of road riding and racing and want to focus this winter on getting my fitness where it needs to be to compete in cat 4/5 races. Last year was kind of a learning (read getting my ass kicked) experience. I did 5 races and only managed to stay with the pack in two of them.

That said, here is where I stand. I definately got better in later summer and fall. I have been less consistent with training the last month or so but havent been doing any racing either. I am 5'11" and 155# and I am a fairly good climber. Which is great for group hill rides, but most of the races I plan to do are either crits or flatter road races.

I get into trouble when the pace ramps up to 25+ for any period of time and I find myself struggling to hold on. Not to mention if I ever get out in the wind.

What types of intervals should I be doing to help improve power on the flats? Is it just a matter or riding more? I really didnt start riding consistently until May which obviously didn't leave much time to build a base, but I want to do things right this year. I am considering picking up a Powertap this winter also to aid my training. Just want to make sure I am doing the right thigns to address my weakness. Thanks

This one is easy. Get the Powertap. It will change the way you train and race. You need to increase your functional threshold power (FTP). Winter rides on the trainer are the perfect place to do this. When you get the powertap, do a FTP test. Then for intervals it is simple, 2 X 20 minutes at your FTP. 10 min warm up, 20 min at FTP, 2 minutes easy, 20 min at FTP, 10 min cool down....done. Repeat 2 times per week and you will emerge in the spring with a much improved FTP. It absolutely works. In fact, Andy Coggan (guy who wrote the training with power book) recommended the very thing over on www.slowtwitch.com. The powertap is gold for TT racing also.

Mike

What types of intervals should I be doing to help improve power on the flats? Is it just a matter or riding more? I really didnt start riding consistently until May which obviously didn't leave much time to build a base, but I want to do things right this year. I am considering picking up a Powertap this winter also to aid my training. Just want to make sure I am doing the right thigns to address my weakness. Thanks

Hi

I'm one year ahead of you, and in the sthn hemisphere, I have similar dimensions to you and the same conundrum, I considered a powertap - I decided against it and invested instead in a coach - it has been fantastic, have massively improved my performance, won a C grade 2-day tour (where last year I was pack fodder) and have all the guys in the club wanting to know what I'm on (I'm on my bike, busting my a$$). I have a family and busy job, and intervals have been time efficient and have made the difference. Very hard mentally to face hard intervals though.

I've read everything I could find - the most helpful to me have been:
Arnie Bakers High intensity cycling - this is updated and has more info than Smart cycling recommended earlier (also a good read)
http://www.roadbikerider.com/hit_excerpt.htm
Maximum performance for cyclists - all about intervals, but you'll have to modify them, his are too hard for mere mortals.
http://www.amazon.com/Maximum-Performance-Cyclists-M-D-Michael/dp/193138262X

But after reading it all and trying to work out my own program I tried a coach, money well spent in my experience... Hope you have a good winter...

Get the PowerTap, the book and a copy of CyclingPeaks. You just can't fake power output and its WAAAYYYYY more reliable than HR. The first thing you will learn with it is how to "conserve" power. Between my first two rides, I increased my time in the 0-100 watt range by 15%, hence I had the energy left to win the sprint. I normally get dropped before the sprint because I didn't ride smart.

Flash


HR is very reliable.... Cant fake power but you also cannot fake a HR reading either.

With HR you need to learn how to "conserve" as well.

HR is very reliable.... Cant fake power but you also cannot fake a HR reading either.

With HR you need to learn how to "conserve" as well.
but you can be faked out by HR -- HR increases lag well behind increases in effort, and can change, literally, with the weather. On hot days, your HR will be considerably higher for the same effort.
HR isn't useless, as some say, but it can be unreliable.

but you can be faked out by HR -- HR increases lag well behind increases in effort, and can change, literally, with the weather. On hot days, your HR will be considerably higher for the same effort.
HR isn't useless, as some say, but it can be unreliable.

Same holds true with power.... Just because you can output 'X' power today for a given workout dosent mean that you can do the same next week. Just like your (my HR doesnt do this) HR goes up for the same effort on hot days your power would go down as well. Also its not a big deal that your HR takes seconds (10 to 30) to change when the effort goes up and down.

I am not a power/watts hater but think one to many think power training is the only way to get better... drinking too much of the PT kool-aid if you will. It all comes down to PE zones and being honest with them.

Same holds true with power.... Just because you can output 'X' power today for a given workout dosent mean that you can do the same next week. Just like your (my HR doesnt do this) HR goes up for the same effort on hot days your power would go down as well.

The difference is power is an objective measure of the stress on the body and heart rate is a measure of the strain. In other words, power is the input and heart rate is the response. As an input, power is independent of extraneous factors such as heat, rest, hydration, etc. Riding at 300 W puts the same strress on the body whenever one does it. Heart rate on the other hand, since it is a measure of the response of the rider incorporates all external stresses, not just power; and these other factors can't be subtracted out. Similarly the ability to maintain a certain power is a response (better than heart rate since it incorporates all systems not just cardiovascular) to all stresses. So the reason you can't maintain that 300W on a hot day is the body can not tolerate the stress from the elevated temperature in addition to the stress from generating 300 W.

So the question everyone has to answer for themselves in deciding between measuring power or heart rate is whether they want a measure of the exercise stress or cardiovascular strain caused by that stress.

The difference is power is an objective measure of the stress on the body and heart rate is a measure of the strain. In other words, power is the input and heart rate is the response. As an input, power is independent of extraneous factors such as heat, rest, hydration, etc. Riding at 300 W puts the same strress on the body whenever one does it. Heart rate on the other hand, since it is a measure of the response of the rider incorporates all external stresses, not just power; and these other factors can't be subtracted out. Similarly the ability to maintain a certain power is a response (better than heart rate since it incorporates all systems not just cardiovascular) to all stresses. So the reason you can't maintain that 300W on a hot day is the body can not tolerate the stress from the elevated temperature in addition to the stress from generating 300 W.

So the question everyone has to answer for themselves in deciding between measuring power or heart rate is whether they want a measure of the exercise stress or cardiovascular strain caused by that stress.

Yeah...what he said!

Either you can make the power or you can't....HR is too variable....

Flash

HR is very reliable.... Cant fake power but you also cannot fake a HR reading either.

I just noticed this. When I first got my power meter, I had been doing 7 minute uphill intervals at 178 bpm. I did an experiment where I first did an interval at the same constant effort with roughly constant power and averaged 178 bpm. I then repeated the interval including short bits of coasting that were short enough not to show up in my heart rate. I ended up with the same 178 bpm for the interval but averaged 10 W lower.

I just noticed this. When I first got my power meter, I had been doing 7 minute uphill intervals at 178 bpm. I did an experiment where I first did an interval at the same constant effort with roughly constant power and averaged 178 bpm. I then repeated the interval including short bits of coasting that were short enough not to show up in my heart rate. I ended up with the same 178 bpm for the interval but averaged 10 W lower.

Interesting.....

We have a hill around here that I use for repeats. Sometimes I do it with a high cadence at around 300w and end up with a pretty high heart rate ~185bpm. When I do it with a low cadence, at about the same power, I see a HR that is about 10-15bpm lower....

This has helped me with my TT's this year. Going with the bigger gear in the beginning of the race has saved me some aerobic capacity to finish strong...

Flash

I am getting ready for my second season of road riding and racing and want to focus this winter on getting my fitness where it needs to be to compete in cat 4/5 races. Last year was kind of a learning (read getting my ass kicked) experience. I did 5 races and only managed to stay with the pack in two of them.

That said, here is where I stand. I definately got better in later summer and fall. I have been less consistent with training the last month or so but havent been doing any racing either. I am 5'11" and 155# and I am a fairly good climber. Which is great for group hill rides, but most of the races I plan to do are either crits or flatter road races.

I get into trouble when the pace ramps up to 25+ for any period of time and I find myself struggling to hold on. Not to mention if I ever get out in the wind.

What types of intervals should I be doing to help improve power on the flats? Is it just a matter or riding more? I really didnt start riding consistently until May which obviously didn't leave much time to build a base, but I want to do things right this year. I am considering picking up a Powertap this winter also to aid my training. Just want to make sure I am doing the right thigns to address my weakness. Thanks

I am going to suggest that you skip the Powertap for now, but I'm kind of old school. A simple cycling computer is also a decent measure of "output". Of course there are environmental variables like temperature and wind, but it will definitely give you lo-tech feedback. For example, if you ride a loop 1x per week and do it at a certain perceived effort (ie. moderately hard), your average speed will also indicate your improvement. I know this sounds like heresy to the wattage crowd, but many elite racers have done without and do fine without a powermeter.

Since you are relatively new to the sport, I would suggest you not get too focused on power numbers, fitness testing, etc, etc. The most important thing for you at this stage is to ride as much as possible over the winter to build up your base fitness. In terms of addressing your flatland power, you can begin to work on this in the new year. There is a good thread on the "Coaching" forum about sweet-spot training. Basically this is a training method to build a strong aerobic base and the concept is to do longer mid-intensity rides where you are hitting the mid-upper end of your aerobic effort but not so high in intensity and/or volume that you can't do it again the next day. The thread I am referencing also loves to talk about watts and functional threshold power, but long before anyone had a powermeter and an acronym a ride like this was called a tempo ride. Doing these types of efforts will help to give you a powerful aerobic system before you start hitting it with high-intensity efforts.

Probably the best bang for your money is to get involved with a racing club (if you have not done so), and ideally one that has a coach. You will learn so much about racing and training this way, plus your winter training is much easier done in a group than solo.

I am going to suggest that you skip the Powertap for now, but I'm kind of old school. A simple cycling computer is also a decent measure of "output". Of course there are environmental variables like temperature and wind, but it will definitely give you lo-tech feedback. For example, if you ride a loop 1x per week and do it at a certain perceived effort (ie. moderately hard), your average speed will also indicate your improvement. I know this sounds like heresy to the wattage crowd, but many elite racers have done without and do fine without a powermeter.

Since you are relatively new to the sport, I would suggest you not get too focused on power numbers, fitness testing, etc, etc. The most important thing for you at this stage is to ride as much as possible over the winter to build up your base fitness. In terms of addressing your flatland power, you can begin to work on this in the new year. There is a good thread on the "Coaching" forum about sweet-spot training. Basically this is a training method to build a strong aerobic base and the concept is to do longer mid-intensity rides where you are hitting the mid-upper end of your aerobic effort but not so high in intensity and/or volume that you can't do it again the next day. The thread I am referencing also loves to talk about watts and functional threshold power, but long before anyone had a powermeter and an acronym a ride like this was called a tempo ride. Doing these types of efforts will help to give you a powerful aerobic system before you start hitting it with high-intensity efforts.

Probably the best bang for your money is to get involved with a racing club (if you have not done so), and ideally one that has a coach. You will learn so much about racing and training this way, plus your winter training is much easier done in a group than solo.
the only problem with this advice is that, until a rider knows his body and his recovery needs and relative intensity effort levels better than a beginner does, it's not very useful. It's like saying to a cook, you don't need to use a probe thermometer for the steaks, just take them out when they're done. Well, that's sort of exactly the question isn't it?

I certainly agree that you can do a lot of good work without a power device. Some of the best riders I know, Cat 1's, don't ride with any computers at all, particularly on a group ride. But they know their bodies really, really well. And if the rider has the monetary means and the desire to make it work (rather than to work solely for the device, which can be a problem, I agree), training with power is good advice and can be world-changing. Perceived exertion has been shown to be a remarkably accurate gauge of performance, but until you have enough background and experience, you don't know what you're perceiving.

the only problem with this advice is that, until a rider knows his body and his recovery needs and relative intensity effort levels better than a beginner does, it's not very useful. It's like saying to a cook, you don't need to use a probe thermometer for the steaks, just take them out when they're done. Well, that's sort of exactly the question isn't it?

I certainly agree that you can do a lot of good work without a power device. Some of the best riders I know, Cat 1's, don't ride with any computers at all, particularly on a group ride. But they know their bodies really, really well. And if the rider has the monetary means and the desire to make it work (rather than to work solely for the device, which can be a problem, I agree), training with power is good advice and can be world-changing. Perceived exertion has been shown to be a remarkably accurate gauge of performance, but until you have enough background and experience, you don't know what you're perceiving.

I agree 100% with what you say. I would likely estimate most novice riders will over-extend the effort with respect to perceived exertion, that is go too hard rather than too easy. If the OP has the money to spend, sure get a Power Tap or even better get the SRM. But if comes down to a choice between coaching or power device, I say that coaching is a better investment because it will help address the training needs as well as the tactics/thinking needs of a novice racer. I see many cat 4 riders who train diligently with a Powertap or even SRM, but at the same time they don't really seem to THINK about what they are doing when they are racing nor do they understand their actions well enough when discussing the results afterwards. But this is getting into another thread.

the mental aspects of racing are the toughest. some guys are so strong that they can ride away from the field, and that gets a number of Cat 4's into 3's and even some 3's into 2's. For most of us, though, even if we have some physical talent, our bodies can't carry the day completely, and it's our minds that fail us and end up putting our bodies in trouble (or just out of contention). Many times, our bodies could have done it had we known what to ask our bodies to do.
that's where I am. I need to be developing my mental focus.

Just a little update on where I ended up. I have ordered a PowerTap, and joined a team at the local shop. Unfortunately they don't have organized group rides until the spring, so I have been riding with a few other groups as weather permits.

I should of mentioned, that I had tried working with a local coach toward the end of last year, and didn't feel I got much out of it. I think it was a combination of circumstances that lead me to that conclusion, among them:
- I signed up late in the year, and I know it takes time for coaching to work.
- I didn't feel like I was getting the explanation I needed in order to understand what I was doing and why.
- The coach is a Cat 1 racer, and I felt like the plan was based on what would make him fast, and not catered toward my level.
- Like Bill mentioned, I really didn't feel like I was able to measure my effort with any consistency or accuracy. Mostly, I felt like I wasn't pushing myself hard enough, but it could of been the opposite.

Until the Powertap arrives, I have been getting to the gym, doing some 2x20s on the bike to get an idea of what wattage I can hold. Its pretty sad, but improving. It will be interesting to see how it correlates to actual on bike wattage.