So as many of you here know I have quite a passion for French cycling related travel. I do my best to dispense what I have learned to you all. I have been thinking of striking out on my own to start a small side business. I am self-employed now in the cycling industry (sales rep) so I have money coming in and flexible schedule.

I'd like to parlay my years as a guide and such into a Professional Guide for Hire/Trip Travel Consultant for hire job. I realize that there are specific bespoke companies that offer this, but with my company it will be a primary focus. I have a few friends that can assist me if I get a larger group but for now I'd like to focus on smaller groups.

I have some special offerings up my sleeve that I won't divulge here, but the offerings will go above and beyond what many offer.

Has anyone here ever done a bespoke or considered doing one?

More than anything I suspect that the trip consulting would be the bigger part of the business, but maybe I'd be wrong. Basically, helping people to dodge the major pitfalls like trying to fly into smaller airport where the planes aren't big enough to handle 6 bicycle boxes, or networks of hotels that are bike friendly that I can pre-arrange to store your bike cases.

Aside from price what would sway you to a smaller custom planned trip over a bigger company? The personal service? The ability to be more flexible while traveling because of smaller group size?

Build me up or tear me down.....all thoughts welcome

So as many of you here know I have quite a passion for French cycling related travel. I do my best to dispense what I have learned to you all. I have been thinking of striking out on my own to start a small side business. I am self-employed now in the cycling industry (sales rep) so I have money coming in and flexible schedule.

I'd like to parlay my years as a guide and such into a Professional Guide for Hire/Trip Travel Consultant for hire job. I realize that there are specific bespoke companies that offer this, but with my company it will be a primary focus. I have a few friends that can assist me if I get a larger group but for now I'd like to focus on smaller groups.

I have some special offerings up my sleeve that I won't divulge here, but the offerings will go above and beyond what many offer.

Has anyone here ever done a bespoke or considered doing one?

More than anything I suspect that the trip consulting would be the bigger part of the business, but maybe I'd be wrong. Basically, helping people to dodge the major pitfalls like trying to fly into smaller airport where the planes aren't big enough to handle 6 bicycle boxes, or networks of hotels that are bike friendly that I can pre-arrange to store your bike cases.

Aside from price what would sway you to a smaller custom planned trip over a bigger company? The personal service? The ability to be more flexible while traveling because of smaller group size?

Build me up or tear me down.....all thoughts welcome

Ted,
For me, I'd be hard pressed to pay somebody for consulting advice on this kind of trip. I'd be much more likely to buy a book and glean other information through free sources like RBR. For me, I'd only pay for "on trip" guidance in an organizied tour. Please be aware that I've had good experiences with organizied trips and I don't have a big requirement for freedom and flexibility that a self guided tour offers over an organizied one. That's my preference but others are just the opposite.

Please keep us posted on your plans, I for one would love to join TEO Tours (or whatever you call it) for a trip.

Scot

Sounds like a good way to make a small fortune..... provided you start with a large fortune
:D

Aside from price what would sway you to a smaller custom planned trip over a bigger company? The personal service? The ability to be more flexible while traveling because of smaller group size?



1. Knowing exactly who would be guiding me -- that is teo rather than one of teo's many employees. This is one of the selling points that I have as a lawyer in a small firm as opposed to being in a large firm. One of my most significant clients uses major law firms around the country. One of the client's complaints is that even though he calls Lawyer A at Firm X, he often ends up having his case assigned to Lawyer B or Lawyer C at the firn. When the client calls me, he knows I will be doing the work.

2. Not having to be part of a larger group with people that I don't know and do not care to know. I only have been on two guided tours in my life. Neither were cycling trips. One of the trips was fine -- I was in high school and all of us in the group knew each other. The other trip was the trip from hell. I was part of a larger group of people that I had known previously. There were several people in the group that drove me crazy, incluidng one person who decided that he wanted to be my best friend. I would be tempted to do a guided cycling tour if the tour group was composed of people that I already knew rather than a random group.

3. Being able to stay in smaller and more interesting places. As you know there are lots of great small hotels and restaurants in France. If you have a group of 15 or 20, some of these places would be too small. But, a group of 4 or 6 would fit easily into such places.

Sounds like a good way to make a small fortune..... provided you start with a large fortune
:D


I come from the cycling industry would you expect less, not to mention I'd have helluva good time losing it!

Seriously though, the start up costs and such are pretty low really. Now with the Euro clobbering us that is another matter. I guess I've have to wait a long time before I can justify my own base of operations in Provence, or Philipe will have to rent me out some barn space when he takes the dive!

A couple things:

(1) my background: I have attended and worked at a camp in northern Wisconsin that does wilderness trips for Backpacking, Canoeing, and Kayaking. These trips are from 3 to 55 days in places like Saskatchewan, Northern Territories, Alaska, Lake Superior, Sweden etc. All trips have a maximum of 6 people, (1 councilor and 5 campers)

(2)Crossing latitudes sounds similar to what you are trying to do only a little more generalized. (I actually don't know a whole lot about them so don't take my word for it)

(3) The things that I would look for in a smaller, more personal cycling trip would be: knowing the people beforehand, if I am only going to have 5-10 people to talk to I better be sure that I won't hate them by the end. I would also like to have some flexibility, I personally don't want to spend lots and not be able to see something that I'm interested in that's only a little ways away.

Maybe you could offer some activities other than biking. Not everybody has been to France maybe have some relaxed, walk around Paris days, or some hiking and photo taking in the mountains. If you were a photographer and made slide shows of your pro-quality pics for us to take home, I'd give you my check right now.
Thats the kind of personal stuff that I would look for anyways.

How long are you planning on making these trips? or is that built into the flexibility thing?

worked for 3 summer / spring seasons as a tour guide across Europe - am now a lawyer

success for that business model would be achieved by word of mouth reccomendations - long term viability would be linked to disposable income - the first thing that gets axed in a downturn is foreign travel / solo holidays

you would be targeting guys who are serious enough about their riding to enjoy, or think they would enjoy, that sort of trip but who do not have the time, ability or confidence to arrange an independent trip - a strange combination of clientele

I would consider actively targeting serious corporates - banks, Fortune 500 companies etc. rather than just hanging your shingle out - you'll need very focused marketing to turn up the kind of rider who'd want to pay for a small, intimate, high end guided cycling tour - a corporate focus could be sold as team building and would get rid of the knowing other riders problem - I have a buddy who works in London in exactly this field and is plugged in - PM me if you want his details - (I am assuming you don't care where the riders come from...) - he works on commission so it won't cost you nothing

mebbe I don't understand everything but I think trip consulting would be tough to pull off in that I am doubtful people would pay you money for the kind of help you'd be offering

The only way I could justify doing this type of trip if there were a parallel trip for the rest of my family that did not involve bikes, at least not as heavily. If there is a non-biking wife and kids option including some sightseeing and shopping excursions, then I would think about it. Otherwise, I just can't justify going on vacation and leaving my family home. Perhaps this could be something to think about if you are serious about this venture. Good luck.

M.J.'s got it right...no matter what you offer, you are going to need the marketing expertise to get the word out about what is unique, because this is a very crowded space. You need a niche. Racers, cycling families with kids, CEOs, wine lovers, whatever. Otherwise, the well-established companies will eat you for lunch.So whatever your "special offerings" are, might as well spill them now and get some free market research.

On the guide-side business: So you are going to show me and my group around France? Do you have SAG support, mechanical skill, the ability to make healthy, tasty meals? As a serious cyclist, am I going to go with some guy who says he knows the country and posts on RBR, or am I going to go with a well-established company that may even allow me to ride with a former pro? What makes you unique and valuable?

On the consulting business, maybe. I know a woman who runs a successful Italian travel consulting business for parents with small children. She tells parents where to go (Venice has too many steps for strollers, for example), where to stay, where to eat, how to find babysitters, etc. You might be able to do something similar with cycling, but it would have to be much more than just logistics. People want "experiences" too. You'd have to tell them: "In Nice, on Rue de Rivoli, is a great little bike shop. Ask for Pierre, tell him I sent you and check out the basement full of vintage Campy parts."

worked for 3 summer / spring seasons as a tour guide across Europe - am now a lawyer

success for that business model would be achieved by word of mouth reccomendations - long term viability would be linked to disposable income - the first thing that gets axed in a downturn is foreign travel / solo holidays

you would be targeting guys who are serious enough about their riding to enjoy, or think they would enjoy, that sort of trip but who do not have the time, ability or confidence to arrange an independent trip - a strange combination of clientele

I would consider actively targeting serious corporates - banks, Fortune 500 companies etc. rather than just hanging your shingle out - you'll need very focused marketing to turn up the kind of rider who'd want to pay for a small, intimate, high end guided cycling tour - a corporate focus could be sold as team building and would get rid of the knowing other riders problem - I have a buddy who works in London in exactly this field and is plugged in - PM me if you want his details - (I am assuming you don't care where the riders come from...) - he works on commission so it won't cost you nothing

mebbe I don't understand everything but I think trip consulting would be tough to pull off in that I am doubtful people would pay you money for the kind of help you'd be offering

I have been on four trips to Europe. Three in France, one in Italy. All have been slightly different.

My first was with a large tour. Never again. We were actually given a fair amount of freedom in how what we did in terms of riding and how we chose to get to our destination but the large number people with wide abilities proved to be clumsy. The non-riding members that "My Own Idaho" mentions including in the trip actually led to me enjoying the trip less. They never seemed terribly happy about being left out and dampened my enjoyment. However, my impression is that it is difficult to include non-riders in a Tour. The good riding is often in more remote areas of the countries. Locations that may be very pretty but not always conducive to much shopping and sightseeing. It is probably possible but it makes the trip more difficult.

The second and third trips were with the same company. About 12 the first time and then 8 riders the second. These trips were geared to serious riders. They were much more nimble and personal and the main reason I would never go with a bigger group again.

My last trip, to Italy, was this past spring. I had done a lot of research into hotels and transportation in anticipation of doing the trip on our own. Ultimately we decided to go with another small group just for the convenience of having them handle most of the little stuff and help deal with the language barriers. This company actually provided a good amount of assistance with hotels and car rental in helping me and a friend tack on a few extra days to our trip. Something similar to what you are proposing, it seems. Their assistance was a definite help and I can see where a service that works through the details but still provides a good amount of freedom would be appealing.

Thanks to all that have posted so far, you have hit on a lot of things that I have thought of in great detail and one or two things that I haven't. I have never been one to jump in and do something where I felt had shortcomings. I spent 10 years in the cycling business and never had one desire to open a shop, and never do. But with the travel thing it was very natural feel for me. People that know me have never said you should open a shop, but many have said I should start my own travel company. I don't want this to sound cocky, as I know hard work is involved in any venture that is successful. Lots can go wrong and I've been around a few times when it did.

It took me years of guiding just to get the notion that I was near ready. I also don't consider my self outstanding in any one catagory of what is important in a good guide but I always got paying jobs based on being solid in all facets. I was an easy pick for my boss because I would ride, wrench, drive, schlepp luggage, kiss ass, kick ass and anything else he needed.

I feel like I have a genuine passion for sharing all that I have learned (I have plenty more learn), because what I have learned so far is useless if I keep it to myself. Right now I see this as something small that I can build upon, and if do things right, treat it seriously (though it is part time for now), then rest should fall into place with some time. I want to make customers first and formost.

Thanks again to all of you. Its obvious that many of you put a good deal of time into your posts. It means alot to me.

The only way I could justify doing this type of trip if there were a parallel trip for the rest of my family that did not involve bikes, at least not as heavily. If there is a non-biking wife and kids option including some sightseeing and shopping excursions, then I would think about it. Otherwise, I just can't justify going on vacation and leaving my family home. Perhaps this could be something to think about if you are serious about this venture. Good luck.

Great points, having hosted lots of non-cyclists on trips AND playing tour guide for my fiance,our daughter, and my mother I learned a great deal on these fronts. The me of 10 years ago would have been woefully underprepared for this facet. As it is I have some pretty unique stuff up my sleeve. I want to roll things out before I give away all my best ideas for non-cycling guests.

A couple things:

(1) my background: I have attended and worked at a camp in northern Wisconsin that does wilderness trips for Backpacking, Canoeing, and Kayaking. These trips are from 3 to 55 days in places like Saskatchewan, Northern Territories, Alaska, Lake Superior, Sweden etc. All trips have a maximum of 6 people, (1 councilor and 5 campers)

(2)Crossing latitudes sounds similar to what you are trying to do only a little more generalized. (I actually don't know a whole lot about them so don't take my word for it)

(3) The things that I would look for in a smaller, more personal cycling trip would be: knowing the people beforehand, if I am only going to have 5-10 people to talk to I better be sure that I won't hate them by the end. I would also like to have some flexibility, I personally don't want to spend lots and not be able to see something that I'm interested in that's only a little ways away.

Maybe you could offer some activities other than biking. Not everybody has been to France maybe have some relaxed, walk around Paris days, or some hiking and photo taking in the mountains. If you were a photographer and made slide shows of your pro-quality pics for us to take home, I'd give you my check right now.
Thats the kind of personal stuff that I would look for anyways.

How long are you planning on making these trips? or is that built into the flexibility thing?

The trips would be flexible but would have some easy "best of " options wher you could pick the real highlights of France. Alps, Pyrenees, and Provence, then lesser known gems like Vercors, Dordogne, etc

The photo thing is something I already considered, also being a part time journo I considered doing trip blog/reports real time for your friends back home. During several TdF's I was guiding and submitting daily journals to websites on top of my regular work.

Send your check to...... (laughs)

1) As others have said, an individual, a couple or a family travelling to France for a bike tour has daunting logistics. You must solve them for those who want their own bikes and those who want yours.

2) Non-cyclists - already mentioned. A must solve unless you intend to target the serious cyclist niche exclusively. For my family, the trip must be a non-cyclist trip with a great cycling option, not a cycling trip with a non-cyclist option. Note the emphasis, this is crucial. My wife will not be dragged along on my vacation experience, watching me have fun (and I don't blame her, I just wish she liked cycling.)

3) Scenery - the trips must provide those PhilippeC quality views and vistas for all.

4) La Vrai France - you must go to the must see places and the places off the beaten path.

5) Small vs. big - I like the small family run hotels of rural France. I'm not everyone, but it's hard for me to imagine how a group of 50 can share the personal experience of market day at the town square or many of the small but interesting monuments, churches, chapels, castles, etc.

6) Stay at least one night in a chateau (or offer the option.)

7) Include at least one 2 star dinner (or offer the option.)

8) Make provisions for non-French speakers (probably the majority) to do it all, either with your help or with your instructions.

9) Provide good road maps for the cyclists and attraction maps for the vacationers, both cyclists and non-cyclists, to allow for independence. I don't think people want to be ferried around in a bus and led as a group. You'll need to put on paper all the "things to do" and "places to see". An earlier comment about bakeries was right on point. Broaden those lists to include other recreational shopping experiences.

10) If you offer more than one region or trip, market their differences and similarities. Themes wouldn't hurt, e.g. an Normandy invasion theme, a Middle Ages Castle theme, a Romanesque and Gothic Church theme, Van Gogh theme, Napoleon theme, even a Tour de France theme, Gastronomy, winemaking themes, etc. As a cyclist, I'd want some climbing to spice up the trip, but I don't think too many family vacationers want an Etape du Tour experience. They can get that elsewhere.

My favorite vacation ever was the week I took an unescorted, unaccompanied bike trip in the Dordogne. I planned the route using Michelin maps I bought in the US, Michelin and other tourist guides, NY Times travel section articles (it was the Winter before the French bicentinnial so it got a lot of NYT coverage) and advertising materials from tour operators. It took a lot of planning and was a blast (even getting rained on wasn't too bad.) I did things the books didn't mention and had experiences I'll never forget. This trip was possible for me for 2 reasons: I speak passable French and, at the time, my father and stepmother lived in France so I had a base from which to operate, store my non-cycling stuff (including the bike box), etc.

Good luck. I think there's room for newcomers in the business. You need a business model that incorporates the right product, marketing and operations so it works for your clients and for you.