Was wondering what road tires offer the best ride quality and also cover the protection and wear issues???

I would think that it would be very difficult to quantify the differences in ride that is due to the tires, assuming you are comparing the same tire sizes and air pressures. You would need to use the same bike and then change wheels with others with a set of different tires.

There have been other threads that asked about "favorite" tires but this is a somewhat subjective viewpoint; different bikes, riding styles, riders, etc. I think that the protective qualities are a little better documented with tires like Gatorskins et al being highly rated.

Generally, any tire that doesn't say Tufo on the sidewall.

700 x 23 or 25 where the sizes I meant mention...

Ride quality (good) usually means a tire that won't last forever.

The BEST riding tires are Vittoria Open Corsa CXs or Conti 4000S. Both of these have superior ride and handling, but will only last your @ 1500-2000 miles...

Only done a short spin around the neighborhood on the new Michelin Pro3 Race so far but I would say it has the best ride feel of any clincher yet.

I'm a fan of Veloflex - very nice supple ride qualities.

I used to train on GP4000s but had issues with sidewall cuts. Then I used Specialized All Condition Pro tires. They wore great and all the specialized tires have extra sidewall protection due to the extra tread on the corners. Then I got some 25mm Armadillos, and they felt great at 80 PSI, but it took noticeably more power to push them down the road. I still have them, but decided to use Gatorskins this winter. They actually have a ride on par with the Michelins, but are holding up far better. I won't claim they corner well enough to race crits on, but I'd consider them for a RR with questionable pavement.

If I get sidewall cuts with the gatorskins, I'll go back to the Spec AC Pros, or even the cheaper sport model.

Michelin Pro Race and Lithion cut too easily in the tread even with only a few hundred miles. Great race tires, roll fast, but I don't pretend that they give good mileage for training. Come spring I'll buy a few pairs and mount them on my TT and race wheelsets but there's no reason to train on them.

Train on tires made for training. Race on tires designed for racing.

I used to train on GP4000s but had issues with sidewall cuts.
If I get sidewall cuts with the gatorskins, I'll go back to the Spec AC Pros, or even the cheaper sport model.

Michelin Pro Race and Lithion cut too easily in the tread even with only a few hundred miles.


What seems to be the primary cause of cuts? I have never had one and do not have anyone I know that has had a problem with cuts. I only ride road bikes recreationally on surface streets so maybe you are talking more about mountain bikeing which would make more sense since you imply that cuts are a constent problem.

Most people I ride with train on michelins, I ride the lithion but most seem to like the pro2race. They both hold up fine, and they are very fast and comfortable. I guess some people have more stuff on the road where they live, so michelins won't hold up for them.

Try some michelin lithions and see how they hold up. Worst case scenario they only last 1000 miles or so because there is lots of road debris where you live. But the tires are fast and they ride smooth, and they aren't very expensive ($25-30 per tire). Michelin krylions will hold up better if that's what you need.

I've had similar sidewall damage to both GP4000s and Michelin Pro Race. If you do any amount of riding on the roads, the time will come when you will hit a rock or piece of glass at an angle that will not puncture the tread of the tire, but cut or abrade the sidewall of a tire to the extent that it either ruptures (just hope its the rear on a flat straight road when that happens) or it will damage the sidewall to the extent that the tire is no longer safe to ride. That said, I keep using those two tires as they are my favorites for fast group rides. I use Specialized Mondo Pro on my TT training wheels and Road training wheels and they have been surprisingly resistent to sidewall or even tread cuts, but they don't have the same feel of a ProRace 2 or a GP 4000.

Sorry about the dual post, I was responding to "azchris" above about sidewall cuts and hit the wrong reply button.

I've had great luck, no flats and great ride quality, with Vredstein Fortezza's and also Maxxis Re-Fuse. Both are about $30-$35.

I'm running Maxxis Re-Fuse tires (25c) that give an excellent ride -- and they won't wear out.

I've had zero flats, going on 1,600 miles.

What seems to be the primary cause of cuts? I have never had one and do not have anyone I know that has had a problem with cuts. I only ride road bikes recreationally on surface streets so maybe you are talking more about mountain bikeing which would make more sense since you imply that cuts are a constent problem.

This is why I usually avoid posting here for months at a time. Someone asks a question, I share my experience, and someone tells me that I must have made it all up.

At 12k miles per year, I don't train on tires that picture. I don't do it. I hate having flats. If I flat, it's time to use a different tire. I've flatted twice this year. Once, the tire was worn thin and I was trying to get extra mileage out of it. A tiny piece of glass got pushed through the breaker belt. Usually happens when the tread rubber gets thin. Another time was a pinch flat when bombing down a gravel road on brand new Michelins. Not their fault, was just going too fast. Never took them on gravel again, but retired those tires prematurely because of many tiny but deep slits in the tread. They were pretty visible because I had the light blue color tire. Two other sets of tires were retired flat free and worn out. None of my race tires ever flatted. Armadillos with thornproof tubes, yeah, they never flat either.

My sidewall cuts are probably the result of gravel on the roads, or the occasional piece of glass or metal. From time to time I ride gravel roads, but only on tires I know can handle it. Sometimes it's just the best way to get to Skyline Drive. Continentals seem to be more succeptible than Michelins, which are more than Specialized. Just my experience. My father works for Michelin. I get them for below wholesale, but unless you can reason with changing them every 1500 miles (six weeks) then it's not worth it. Races sure, training, no.

I'm glad someone can back me up on the fact that sidewall cuts happen. I suppose if you ride 500 miles a year and never leave the smooth asphault of your neighborhood, then one could perhaps go without ever having them.

Sure, you like Michelins, I do too. My girlfriend generally has good luck with them, but then again she's 120 pounds. Then again, I've also seen some nasty punctures she's had too. But just like I've experienced, if you're going to find what works best for you (especially if durability and treadlife is of concern) then you're going to have to try a few different tires. Just offering my suggestion on the half-dozen models of tire I've used this year. Otherwise, plenty of homers willing to say "I like what I have." I'm perfectly willing to admit that I've never ridden a Verdenstein, Veloflex, Schwalbe, Bontrager, or a clincher Vittoria. I've got a friend as a pro cyclist that has had good luck racing and training across the Maxxis line, but then he also carried two tubes and patches when he trained. There was a reason for that...

By the way, I'm familiar with mountain biking. No hard feelings, but my experiences are just that. Why would I make it up?

This is why I usually avoid posting here for months at a time. Someone asks a question, I share my experience, and someone tells me that I must have made it all up.

I did not mean to imply that you made anything up; it is just that I do not see many cut tires. As I mentioned, I thought that it was probably due to my type of riding on mainly good paved roads. A post above says not even a flat in 1600 miles. So, I assume this rider, like me, rides on fairly decent surfaces. As you explained, you do a different type of riding.

Get a grip, I was just asking what seemed to be the primary cause of cuts.

I've had a great season on hutchinson Fusion Comps. They "feel" great, corner very well, and after almost 2K miles, still pretty decent.
I'm in central jersey and weigh 195, tough roads, and I'm big, if that helps.

Ride quality will depend on pressure, construction, rim design, bike/rider weight,

for me (170lbs.): I like a stiff tire, staying away from the high "tpi" tires, I like the Bontrager Race Lite dual compound folding tires, 60tpi, in 700x23c size, aired to 120psi., nice sturdy platform below me,

I'm glad someone can back me up on the fact that sidewall cuts happen. I suppose if you ride 500 miles a year and never leave the smooth asphault of your neighborhood, then one could perhaps go without ever having them.

I ride my Michelins on rocky dirt roads as fast as I can go. I did get a cut in the sidewall once that was bad enough to toss the tire, but I sure wouldn't call them fragile. I think a lot of people who complain about cuts are just getting cuts in the rubber which doesn't hurt anything.

I have been riding on the standard GP4000 tyres this year. Average 100-200km per week. I will upgrade to GP4000 'S" when these tyres eventually wear out. The only flats I have had have been as a result of the lightweight tubes I use getting cut on the valve holes - Problem now hopefully fixed by placing some rim tape around valve hole.

There is a fair bit of glass on the roads I ride (but I don''t ride on gravel roads - so no one I ride with gets sidewall cuts). The glass gets embedded in the tyres but touch wood nothing has penetrated the vectran layer of the Conti GP 4000's so far this year. I used to ride exclusively on the top end very expensive Vittoria open corsa clinches (ovbviously punctured a lot on the glass) but I think the GP4000 are more comfortable (not a popular consensus) plus they don't puncture and cost a little less.

The GP4000s are light weight at around 200-210 gram per tyre and I think they are very comfortable to ride on at 110'lbs (I am 150'bs).

Everyone says the new GP4000 S black compund version (that I haven't tried yet) is an even better tyre.

I believe the latest version of the GP 4000 in black only (chili compound) is the exacte same tire as the GP 4000S the only difference is the patch.

If you find that the Michelin Pro2 Race, which is being replaced by the Pro3 Race this year, can cut up on you, your best choice is to make the move to the Krylion Carbon tires. Same great casing, 127 TPI, but the material used to make the tire is different. The Pro2 Race is a co-extruded Silica Energy rubber mix while the Krylions are made out of a, you guessed it, carbon based material. The other major difference between the 2 is the P2R tire has a nylon based puncture protector just under the tread area while the Krylion Carbon has a Kevlar based puncture protector that goes from bead to bead.

Hope this helps

I believe the latest version of the GP 4000 in black only (chili compound) is the exacte same tire as the GP 4000S the only difference is the patch.

Definitely not the case at my local bike shop. (The two different types of black rubber both look and feel very different to the hand)

This is not to say that they have the latest shipment in stock. Where did you get your information from?

Just had a look on the Conti German site. Your are right the GP4000 (in black only) now seems to be an identical tyre to the GP4000 S. Obviously some dealer have the old stock.

Source: http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/de/continental/fahrrad/allgemein/innovation/blackchili_de.html

I see that Tune magazine has just rated these as these as the optimimum compromise tyre.

source: http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/de/continental/fahrrad/allgemein/news/tourtest_2007.html

Hopefully the new stock packaging now states 'black chili'.

I

bump....

Michelin Man,
I'm glad we've someone from tire manufacturer posting here. Can you give us some insider technical update on the Pro3 race? what's the differences between the 2 and the 3's? are the casing different? the rubber compound? what do you use on flat protection? what's the number of Crr? compare to 2? durability mileage? psi rating? tpi spec?
What's the ride compare to 2?

Thx
Kwan


If you find that the Michelin Pro2 Race, which is being replaced by the Pro3 Race this year, can cut up on you, your best choice is to make the move to the Krylion Carbon tires. Same great casing, 127 TPI, but the material used to make the tire is different. The Pro2 Race is a co-extruded Silica Energy rubber mix while the Krylions are made out of a, you guessed it, carbon based material. The other major difference between the 2 is the P2R tire has a nylon based puncture protector just under the tread area while the Krylion Carbon has a Kevlar based puncture protector that goes from bead to bead.

Hope this helps

Veloflex clincher tires is basically the same tread as Vittoria Open Corsa, but Veloflex clincher tires are a ***** to put on my tirpavee, new out of the box. But Veloflex are skinnier than most Open Corsas, not by much - Pave is 700X22, the other tires are 700X20, I have yet to see in any LBS a 700X20 Open Corsa ever...

Specialized Mondo S-Works 700X23 is a pretty smooth tire - and it has flak protection from bead-to-bead.

I prefer Continental GP 3000/4000 on my rear wheel - it has lasted me over 4,000 miles - GP 3000. But the sidewalls can be fragile - so are the sidewalls on the Open Corsa EVO.

The new GP4000's in black only do have the "Chili" on the boxes...

I've been riding with Vittoria Diamante Pros which are 220 TPI and maximu PSI of 140. I was thinking about trying something different. How do the ProRace 3 tires compare the Diamante Pros?

I don't understand why the maximum PSI for both tires is so different. Can someone explain?

Any opinions about making the switch? The Vittorias have been a nice tire although I do get a fair amount of flats. Is one tire faster than the other?

I own Vittoria's (Rubino Pro's/Diamante Prolight's) and haven't had any flats (knock on fiber) in the last year since I've had both pairs. I usually go through two tires on the rear before replacing the front tire, which means buying them in three's.

They seem to wear and ride well and are relatively light (both 23/25).

Only done a short spin around the neighborhood on the new Michelin Pro3 Race so far but I would say it has the best ride feel of any clincher yet.

Pro3 Race's? This is the first time I have heard of them! :O I have a pair of Pro2 Race tires right now and love them with all of my heart.

I fell in love with the butter-like smoothness and lack of rolling resistance of the Continental Grand Prix Supersonics (700x22), but the pricetag shied me away just a tad—they do afterall state on the sidewall: FOR RACE USE ONLY, but it’s like crack for a crackhead I suppose. I am now rolling along nicely on Vittoria Diamante Pro Light tires (700x23). I have been a fan of Continentals since the early 1990s, from the days of the 700x18 wire beaded Grand Prix tires @ 150PSI (which was a lot back then but I was a young lad at the time and weighed less), but fast-forward to today’s technology the Vittorias seem to be a tad more resistant to flats than the fastest offerings from Continental. The longest I’ve ever gone on a set of Grand Prix Supersonics (standard commute riding) without a flat was just around 400 miles (by sheer luck), but with the Vittorias I am going somewhere around 1100 miles. Before either of the two I lasted on average under 200 miles per flat on (wait for it--------) Hutchinson Fusion Craptaculars which lose air when you look at them funny.

From reading about the trials and tribulations of others, it seems that the Vittorias are highly regarded for the price/performance/longevity/etc. factors.

I've been pretty happy with the GP4000S. Pretty much all the roads here are chip/seal or have chip/seal sections. While not a "gravel road" this leaves a lot of gravel on the road and these tires seem to mostly deal with it and other TX road hazards like busted beer bottles fairly well. I've had staples stuck in the tire tread and I was sure it would flat when I pulled it out, but it did not. Also, ran over a box of sheet-rock knife blades that somebody had scattered on the shoulder of the road. That was exciting, but luckily, no flats.

I run at 100psi front and 110psi rear and that makes for a reasonable comfortable ride on these crappy roads. I'm 185lbs.

Virtually anything that doesn't say "Tufo" on the side.

I had pretty good luck with 4000's and Michelin Pro2Race.
IMO, they provide good combination of ride quality, grip, durability and light weight.