I had an MRI last week, and it appears i've got an annular tear in a disc. I'll be seeing a back doctor next week, but just out of curiosity, has anyone had this? Did you have a full recovery?

do a search for disc problems, lots of threads on this topic. Annular tear is closely related to a herniated disc. My advice is to see an orthopidic surgen. Stay away from chiropractors, they are great for alignment issues but can be harmful with torn disc. Just my experience.

Thanks for the advice, redjeep. I'm waiting for the ortho to call me back, i'm glad it's not any worse than a tear and some normal degenerative stuff.

How is your disc now?

So I read the title of the thread, and thought to myself, "How'd he do THAT to his wheel?!?"

I agree with Jamie - the "back doc" really ought to be an orthopod. He may recommend PT, perhaps with an aquatic component, to alleviate symptoms and promote core strengthening before jumping right into sugery. At what level is the tear, if I may ask? The MRI report will usually say something like L1-L2, referring to the disk between the first and second lumbar vertebrae.

Thanks Fast Eddie
My GP didn't go into that, he told me to get to the orthopedic surgeon (back doc), and quit the PT they had me on for a strained muscle. It's in the lumbar, but not too low, so i'm guessing between L3 and L5. I can get more details soon.
My office has a nice sports center, with pools, acupuncture, yoga classes, PT, etc..

Honestly, it hasn't hurt much at all. However, ever since lifting a heavy chunk of cast iron in September, i've had this feeling that it's 'not so right'.

I'm happy there's no sciatica or anything.

So I read the title of the thread, and thought to myself, "How'd he do THAT to his wheel?!?"

I agree with Jamie - the "back doc" really ought to be an orthopod. He may recommend PT, perhaps with an aquatic component, to alleviate symptoms and promote core strengthening before jumping right into sugery. At what level is the tear, if I may ask? The MRI report will usually say something like L1-L2, referring to the disk between the first and second lumbar vertebrae.

From what I understand, the vast majority of problems happen between L5 and S1. I have a herniation there accompanied by degenerative disc disease and grade 1 spondylotlistehesis as indicated by the radiologist on the mri. The D.O. at the spinal surgeon disputes the spondylolisthesis and tells me he doesn't know who the radiologist is and doesn't use him. BTW, this is a workers comp case. This D. O. also disputes another one of the findings of the radiologist. He wants to do some epidural steroid injections, I guess between the facets. That's how I understand it.

I will tell you this. These guys act as if they are dealing with a transmission, and are all business, which is very disturbing to me. I had been doing the PT which at the time mainly consisted of stretching, and that had been a great help. This D.O. guy wants me to do the strengthening extension stuff which he says will be too painful without the injections, according to him the muscles won't fire properly without them. I'm skeptical.

My problem is I have a job which requires very unsafe, heavy lifting and quick loading of trucks for 45 minutes to an hour and a half early each morning and then intermittant heavy lifting throughout the day. I work for Fedex in a very wealthy high rise condo community and these people send their very heavy luggage with us back and forth mostly between NY and Miami. With these people(Fedex) you're either going at 150mph or zero with no in between.

I wouldn't expect a complete recovery either. From what's been explained all around this is a mileage thing. The primary issue seems to be pain management. I may be wrong, but even this D.O. was of that opinion.

The sad thing about this is the whole money, investment issue... Obviously if I were Tiger Woods or some other prominent athelete or wealthy person the advice I received and the attitudes I encountered would be completely different.

These people just want to get me back to work. If I break down, that's life...:sad: :sad: :yikes: :mad2:

Riders who can't ride.

I'm at home in bed right now because of my back too. I'm scheduled for surgery on Monday to have a Lumbar Microdiscectomy. I've a herniated disc at L5-S1 and it's pressing on a nerve causing me a great deal of pain. This started out as a small herniation that was treated with a steroid injection last winter. It relieved the pain but I had not been able to resume full-scale cycling activities. Earlier this fall I started to have some more significant pain (Chi to LA flights do that to a person) and upon seeing my doc he suggested surgery.

I'm told I should be able to resume cycling following the cutting, PT and some rest. We'll see. I just want to not spend every night in pain. It really colors your world when you have to deal with it all of the time. I can see how people can get hooked on painkillers, that's fo sho.

Riders who can't ride.

I'm at home in bed right now because of my back too. I'm scheduled for surgery on Monday to have a Lumbar Microdiscectomy. I've a herniated disc at L5-S1 and it's pressing on a nerve causing me a great deal of pain. This started out as a small herniation that was treated with a steroid injection last winter. It relieved the pain but I had not been able to resume full-scale cycling activities. Earlier this fall I started to have some more significant pain (Chi to LA flights do that to a person) and upon seeing my doc he suggested surgery.

I'm told I should be able to resume cycling following the cutting, PT and some rest. We'll see. I just want to not spend every night in pain. It really colors your world when you have to deal with it all of the time. I can see how people can get hooked on painkillers, that's fo sho.

All I can say is thanks for that post.. Pm me and I'll explain

Thanks lookrider, i appreciate your advice. I'm very bummed because i'm unable to get to the orthopedic surgeon until January 15. So until then, no yoga, weights, or snowboarding! Oh, i'm doing a little riding, not much major stuff tho. I'm designing soccer shoes right now, so it's not like my job is bound to suffer. I don't think i'll have a full recovery, and like you, i'm guessing that it will end up being a pain mgmt thing. I just don't want anything to get worse.

Ride and work safely!



From what I understand, the vast majority of problems happen between L5 and S1. I have a herniation there accompanied by degenerative disc disease and grade 1 spondylotlistehesis as indicated by the radiologist on the mri. The D.O. at the spinal surgeon disputes the spondylolisthesis and tells me he doesn't know who the radiologist is and doesn't use him. BTW, this is a workers comp case. This D. O. also disputes another one of the findings of the radiologist. He wants to do some epidural steroid injections, I guess between the facets. That's how I understand it.

I will tell you this. These guys act as if they are dealing with a transmission, and are all business, which is very disturbing to me. I had been doing the PT which at the time mainly consisted of stretching, and that had been a great help. This D.O. guy wants me to do the strengthening extension stuff which he says will be too painful without the injections, according to him the muscles won't fire properly without them. I'm skeptical.

My problem is I have a job which requires very unsafe, heavy lifting and quick loading of trucks for 45 minutes to an hour and a half early each morning and then intermittant heavy lifting throughout the day. I work for Fedex in a very wealthy high rise condo community and these people send their very heavy luggage with us back and forth mostly between NY and Miami. With these people(Fedex) you're either going at 150mph or zero with no in between.

I wouldn't expect a complete recovery either. From what's been explained all around this is a mileage thing. The primary issue seems to be pain management. I may be wrong, but even this D.O. was of that opinion.

The sad thing about this is the whole money, investment issue... Obviously if I were Tiger Woods or some other prominent athelete or wealthy person the advice I received and the attitudes I encountered would be completely different.

These people just want to get me back to work. If I break down, that's life...:sad: :sad: :yikes: :mad2:

"Let's form a club!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Riders who can't ride."

We already have a club within our club. It's called Team OFFA That's:

Old Farts Falling Apart

I am a P.T. and I would never let an Ortho doc touch my back. I tell anyone who will listen to go to a Neurosurgeon. From what I've seen clinically, the outcomes are most always better when using a neurosurgeon. Just my two cents.

I'd like to thank all of you for your valuable input.

I have one more question for you regarding my back: Since i've got almost a month of waiting until i see my back dr, do you reckon it's ok to ride? No climbing, just smooth stuff at a pretty relaxed pace.

Honestly, the hanging out and drinking beer is fun, but i NEED to be doing something physical.

Anyway, thanks again. I appreciate your help.

Riders who can't ride.

I'm at home in bed right now because of my back too. I'm scheduled for surgery on Monday to have a Lumbar Microdiscectomy. I've a herniated disc at L5-S1 and it's pressing on a nerve causing me a great deal of pain. This started out as a small herniation that was treated with a steroid injection last winter. It relieved the pain but I had not been able to resume full-scale cycling activities. Earlier this fall I started to have some more significant pain (Chi to LA flights do that to a person) and upon seeing my doc he suggested surgery.

I'm told I should be able to resume cycling following the cutting, PT and some rest. We'll see. I just want to not spend every night in pain. It really colors your world when you have to deal with it all of the time. I can see how people can get hooked on painkillers, that's fo sho.

I'll join.

I'm due for surgery on a left inguinal hernia this Friday. Haven't been riding for a month since it was discovered, and won't be riding for three months afterwards.

Its hard to deal with, I commiserate with you guys.

In 1990 I had surgery on L4-L5 by a neuro and have done well since. I'm 58 y.o. and my back does'nt hurt any more than the rest of me. Normal? The two things I've learned are; don't shovel gravel and keep the hamstrings flexible. I also rode 30 miles on Sunday and got the knife on Monday. Best of luck, I'm sure you'll be fine in time.

dead flag blues,
check this link out. this is what i had done for my herniated L3 about 5 years ago. this is by far the best thing i have done. i am about 95 % better. it will never be 100%. no pain, it is just i do not like to push my luck with my activities. i reide everyday if i can. i feel no pain due to biking. i have talked to people that had the traditional surgery done and they are no better than me, sometimes they are a little worse due to scare tissue build up after a few years. this doctor sees a lot of traditional surgery patients in order to remove the scare tissue build up from tradiaonal surgery.

http://www.spineonline.com/movie3.swf

this is from the back institute here in Los Angeles. i was in a lot of pain before my surgery, but, i did not want to have someone cutting through my muscles and having to re attach the muscles to my spine. that is where most of the rehab time comes from. i only had 2 little cuts. not stiches or the like.

From what I understand, the vast majority of problems happen between L5 and S1.

I agree - most findings are at the lumbosacral junction. I was just using L1-L2 as a reference for the terminology.

BTW, this is a workers comp case...I work for Fedex...With these people, you're either going at 150mph or zero with no in between.

...Obviously if I were Tiger Woods or some other prominent athelete or wealthy person the advice I received and the attitudes I encountered would be completely different.

These people just want to get me back to work. If I break down, that's life...:sad: :sad: :yikes: :mad2:

Being a worker's comp case does not mean you should expect a lower standard of care. Not sure about everywhere, but in the state I work in, patients can see whichever docs and specialists they please, as long as the proper referrals go through etc.

Several of my former patients are FedEx employees - no light duty available is as frustrating for providers as it is for patients, I can assure you.

am a P.T. and I would never let an Ortho doc touch my back. I tell anyone who will listen to go to a Neurosurgeon. From what I've seen clinically, the outcomes are most always better when using a neurosurgeon. Just my two cents.

I, too, am a Physical Therapist, and I'm not looking to get into a pissing match, but unless the inital visit is in pre-op, I think the OP would be well-served by having wither an orthpedic surgeon or a neurosurgeon take a look. Any good doc, ortho or neuro, should know if he were in over his head and refer appropriately.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree - most findings are at the lumbosacral junction. I was just using L1-L2 as a reference for the terminology..

ok


Being a worker's comp case does not mean you should expect a lower standard of care. Not sure about everywhere, but in the state I work in, patients can see whichever docs and specialists they please, as long as the proper referrals go through etc...

I think you are being naive about reality here. When Barry Bonds decides he needs a year to rehab his knee he gets a year. When he tells Felipe Alou he needs a day off he sits. Tiger Woods plays 20 tournaments a year tops. These guys make millions of dollars a year. I made 42k last year and which is less than I've made in the last 8 years. I'm not talking about a lower standard of care here, but, the spinal guy I went to acted like I will get epidural steroid injections as a matter of course. He talked of most of his UPS and Fedex patients as being motivated to get back to work. I'll tell you this, they aren't motivated to get back to work, they're motivated to pay their bills and provide for their families. In Florida you are assigned doctors or you can choose amongst a couple but it's an uninformed choice. You are in the medical field and I'm not. I don't know the philosophies of these doctors before I choose them.

Several of my former patients are FedEx employees - no light duty available is as frustrating for providers as it is for patients, I can assure you....

I have no idea what you mean by this. Where is the frustration.?I get 66 and 2/3 percent of my last 13 weeks avg. weekly wages whether I'm on light duty or not. The time I'm on light duty makes me work a job that I'm not familiar with and is a deduction from the 2/3 of wages I'd get anyway. Also people with leg injuries have their leg hanging and swelling for the 5 hours they would have it up.



I, too, am a Physical Therapist, and I'm not looking to get into a pissing match, but unless the inital visit is in pre-op, I think the OP would be well-served by having wither an orthpedic surgeon or a neurosurgeon take a look. Any good doc, ortho or neuro, should know if he were in over his head and refer appropriately.

Just my 2 cents.

Oh, I could see why the other PT said exactly what he said. The whole idea is to ease pain and keep the nervous pathways open. I can visualize the ortho being a lot less sensitive to that than aneurosurgeon, and this is exactly my experience, as the guy I went to seemed a lot less interested in my opinion than getting on with shooting steroids in my spine.. Even he admitted that my job is a young mans game and that I would not get better. He might just slow down the inevitable.

I'd like to thank all of you for your valuable input.

I have one more question for you regarding my back: Since i've got almost a month of waiting until i see my back dr, do you reckon it's ok to ride? No climbing, just smooth stuff at a pretty relaxed pace.

Honestly, the hanging out and drinking beer is fun, but i NEED to be doing something physical.

Anyway, thanks again. I appreciate your help.

The riding works nicely for me with no limitations.

One I the major things for me is body awareness. I'm at the point where I don't lift anything carelessly or bend without thinking about it.

You are the owner of your body and you know how it feels to do any activity. My personal problem is that my job requires me to go full blast very early in the morning (6am to 8am) after which I am intermittently lifting heavy stuff throughout the day under a very strict time schedule. It's a recipe for back disaster.. Fast, heavy lifting, first thing in the morning is the worst thing you can do..then I tighten up and have to lift heavy stuff a again. My job is like "I Love Lucy," in the chocolate factory except with heavy chocolates. LOL

From my (very limited) research, it seems that 85% of back injuries and pain involve extending the spine with loads. Straightening the back.. The others involve more pain or problems with flexion, ie bending.

Cycling actually helps my back feel better. Then again, if I go down, who knows? lol...

My advice is this. You really have to take responsibility for your own treatment, and I would always go for the most conservative treatment to alleviate your pain. People are kidding themselves if they think invasive surgery isn't a risk.. If you have to get it done there is nothing you can do, but explore all your options.

When you go into a gym and see people using fast explosive movements in lifting, do exactly the opposite. Momentum, jerky movement, and speed are not your friends. Always move as smoothly as possible.

You have to keep moving. If you can do an activity without pain, I myself would do it..

That's why I'm worried about these steroid injections. I don't want something that makes me feel like a million bucks but lasts for a couple of months up till maybe a year. As of now I'm slightly limited, and the pain, when I feel it, lets me know what I shouldn't be doing.

These clowns (spinal guys) want to get me back to work,(which they admit is dangerous)and if I blow something out, then they'll weld some sh*t together in my lower back.. NO thanks....

Thanks again to all for their great responses.

Lookrider, i watched 'Sicko' a few days ago. Very eye-opening.

Anyway, now i always think twice before lifting anything, which is kinda weird, but good. I've been riding a good 25-40 flat miles/day on weekends. I'm hopeful that i can spend a lot of the coming season road racing and cross racing, but will leave it up to the doctors to figure out. i'm hopeful that i can get to europe this summer to ride in the alps for a few weeks, but that also depends on the docs.

Oh no, i've got to heft a 50lb suitcase through O'Hare airport tomorrow!!!! Hoping you all have a great holiday!

Lookrider, i watched 'Sicko' a few days ago. Very eye-opening.



Thanks, I forgot about that one and I'll have to check it out..