anyone that has used both, can i get a review of pro/cons?

I have 595 and C50. I didn't want EP because I don't like bike to feel that stiff. When comparing c50 with 595 I would say that c50 is great all around bike, plenty of stiffness and very comfort, perfectly balanced and I have it in custom geometry so it suits me perfect. On the other hand 595 is more explosive and lively bike, light and fast, my origin has just enough stiffness as I like (ultra was a little to much for me) and it's king of comfort with ISP. So it really depend what do you want from a bike, I had a same problem and resolve it by buying both frames :-)

Here are some pictures from my look galery :-) :

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/i.milun/Look

ICO, thank you for the reply. i currently have a Cervelo SLC-SL. it is a great bike, but a little too stiff for my back ( i had surgery a few years back, herniated disk). i ride about 150 miles/week with my club and we do some races through the year. i really like how responsive the Cervelo is, but, like i said, it is a little too stiff for my back after a couple of hours. I like the Look (595), but, i saw the EP and i really liked it. i want to make sure that i get something reasonably light but a good climber, lively feeling and a BB stiff enough for my weight. i am about 185 lbs. i like the way of the Cervelo BB feels and that is something i am looking for in the Look or Colnago.
what BB feels stiffer for you the 595 or EP?
when climbing, what takes off faster, the 595 or EP?
in a group ride. which bike do you think will react to a sprint quicker?



let me know.

I have only seen one side-by-side review and that was in a respectable australian bike magazine review as part of a 5 bike shoot-out. The other bikes weren't in the same league (price-wise or other wise) and so they dropped off and in the end it was between the two and the reviewer picked extreme power without giving a valid reason so I guess the two of them were neck and neck according to him, perhaps someone knows the link to this and will post it. I would have thought the ultra would have been a better bet to pitch against the Power (unless memory fails me and it was the ultra). Anyway the one advantage with 595 is that you have a clever membrane in the Saddle clamp assy that you can change to get the right comfort stifness effect according to your personal choice - I think you get a pick between 3 types from soft to hard which of course can be swapped later too.

what BB feels stiffer for you the 595 or EP?
when climbing, what takes off faster, the 595 or EP?
in a group ride. which bike do you think will react to a sprint quicker?

let me know.

let me know.

the bike with the quicker rider on it.

Seriously, there is no meaningful difference in acceleration between bikes. Rotating mass is likely to yield a more noticeable difference, yet the difference in acceleration between various wheels is minimal at most.

As for what frame feels stiffer, that's really a function of the rider and how that rider interprets things. Energy losses in frames are very, very small, and there has never been any data that's shown that a stiffer bike frame performs better.

Still, you should ride what feels best to you. So with that in mind, you should beg, borrow, or steal to get a test ride on each of these bikes. I'll bet Chas could direct you to a place near you that would let you take a test ride on a 595. I dunno what Colnago dealers usually stock, but it would be worth a bit of a drive to test ride an EP. The cost of gas would be minimal compared to the cost of either frame.

I have a copy of the 2007 race bike of the year article which almost ties the 595 and EP. The EP "won." whatever that means. PM me for a a pdf copy.

I have a copy of the 2207 race bike of the year article which almost ties the 595 and EP. The EP "won." whatever that means. PM me for a a pdf copy.

Is 2207 the year it was printed?

ICO, thank you for the reply. i currently have a Cervelo SLC-SL. it is a great bike, but a little too stiff for my back ( i had surgery a few years back, herniated disk). i ride about 150 miles/week with my club and we do some races through the year. i really like how responsive the Cervelo is, but, like i said, it is a little too stiff for my back after a couple of hours. I like the Look (595), but, i saw the EP and i really liked it. i want to make sure that i get something reasonably light but a good climber, lively feeling and a BB stiff enough for my weight. i am about 185 lbs. i like the way of the Cervelo BB feels and that is something i am looking for in the Look or Colnago.
what BB feels stiffer for you the 595 or EP?
when climbing, what takes off faster, the 595 or EP?
in a group ride. which bike do you think will react to a sprint quicker?



let me know.
Is the tubular out of the question?
A nice set of handmade tubulars with a set of custom wheels w/box rims may do the trick....

I have a copy of the 2007 race bike of the year article which almost ties the 595 and EP. The EP "won." whatever that means. PM me for a a pdf copy.

That's almost identical to the review I read - except the one I read was placed in Australia and the colnago EP wasn't crashed ... I wonder if the fact that they crashed colnago's most expensive bike had a bearing on the result - its a nice way to say sorry!

i read the reviews and it made it easy for me to pick the EP. i have always liked Colnagos. but, i have called 5 different shops and they do not have anything in stock. i am looking for sloping 54 with a 55cm TT in ST02 or STRD, but nothing in stock for 12 to 16 weeks. every shop i talked to hated the new distributor here in the US. Some of the shops went as far as saying that the new distributor is going to cost Colnago a lot of sales. their complaints were customer service and lack of inventory. if i do not find one by today, i will have to get the 595. i know that either way i will be happy, i just had my heart set on the EP.

i will let you know.

CBike has a 54cm ST01and WX02 in stock. non sloping though.

I haven't ridden 595 but C50s are more comfortable frame in terms of ride quality and handling then Looks IMO. Don't get me wrong here as I love my Looks. It's just purely my own feeling and probably have nothing to do with real world facts. Another light of seeing this is, perhaps or definitely irrelevant, but it is just my feeling owning both Look and Nag that Nag frame tech and look of their bikes don't change a whole lot over the years whatever that might suggest... Whereas Look frames go thru some radical changes often compared to nags. For example unchanging C40 was a great frame with some serious staying power in the desirable highend frame heirarchy until C50 came along and especially the superficial difference between C40 and C50 isn't as radical as what Look's top horses go thru. However you interpret that it is a small factor after you own the bike for a few years. As trite as it maybe the desirability of your current bike can make you feel kinda okay at times whereas seeing completely different bike put out by the company that you bought your top dog frame the very next year could leave you with a bit of sour taste in your mouth. But then who knows, Colnago might put out a radically different C60 next year.

..... every shop i talked to hated the new distributor here in the US. Some of the shops went as far as saying that the new distributor is going to cost Colnago a lot of sales. their complaints were customer service and lack of inventory. ....

Problem is not so much the distributors but Colango themselves - colnago does not carry stock and the way they present their range makes it almost impssible for distributors to keep a reasonable stock. You are looking at the EP - their top of the range model and most expensive and obviously the one with the least expected unit sales. It comes in 20 sizes (7 sloping + 13 str8) with a choice of 12 colourways that means if the distributor just orders 1 in each size and colour they will have to get 240 frames and as soon as they sell a single one that's it the range in no longer complete ......... but that's just the top end frame don't forget they have a total of 16 frames so even if the distributor ordered thousands of frames in reallity they would only stock one or two in each size/colour combo! They have done this to provide options for the customer because their manufacturing technique allows them as they are buying tubes from belgium and then using lugs which means they can produce unlimited variety in terms of size as one could in the old steel days but they have to look at the business side of things too.

Italian frame makers are not the best in after sales service - again its not a disty issue - all they have to do is to hold colnago to their word for the guarantee as the distributor is not replacing the frame out of their own pocket - colnago is. If you look at the colnago forum you will see lots of disappointments over the years with their after sales service and huge wait when things do go wrong.

These were the main reasons I went down the 595 route too.

Have owned a C40 in the past and now riding a 595 Ultra. Based on this experience, this is what I would expect out of the Extreme ccompared to the 595.

Extreme:
+ comfort, forgiving, relaxed steering
- slow steering, lack of "snap", gaudy graphics

595
+ quick, extremely precise steering, stiff/responsive, elegant understated looks
- unforgiving, stiff/harsher ride

Personally prefer the 595 as I like a bike that is demanding and keeps me on my toes!

[quote=Johnnysmooth
Extreme:
+ comfort, forgiving, relaxed steering
- slow steering, lack of "snap", gaudy graphics

595
+ quick, extremely precise steering, stiff/responsive, elegant understated looks
- unforgiving, stiff/harsher ride
[/quote]

You could leave out "Gaudy graphics" & "elegant understated looks," you think, as they are matter of personal, cultural, and national taste?

IF you are leaning towards a Nag you can pick and order a vast amount of different color schemes from current and past Colnagos including nude CF finish (or did they stop doing that? but if they are, I highly recommend maestro if you can deal with the wait... price's great as well but then I'm not sure how the exchange rate thing works out these days as it's only gettin worse.) Luv the looks of Looks as well. They are all different and it's all good. Ride quality is personal taste issue as well. Depending on where and what kinda ride I'm going for I pick different bike and I appreciate them all as they are all St.Ghisallo's children. Otherwise they are on ebay.

Ah ... I forgot i had this review by clark tanner.

Normally we like testing these bikes for a few weeks, but I wasn’t about to pass on a chance to ride the 595 at the Tour of California – which I did (and wrote about) on the second half of stage 4 from Stockton To San Jose. The 40 mile jaunt included a gradual climb, varied road surfaces, some super twists and turns, a big grunt up Sierra road, and some fast descending – the perfect micro-test circuit.

The road surface was rough, and we started out into a stiff headwind that lasted for the next hour and a half. I was immediately struck by the ride quality of the 595 – stiff like I expected, but comfortable like I didn’t expect. Pedalling up the gradual climb along Calaveras Road with tired legs from the two previous days’ rides, it was clear this is a race bike. My pedaling energy seemed to flow directly into forward motion generated at the rear wheel.

The Calaveras Road is a great ride - even better when you're on a nice bike like the Look 595.

The Calaveras Road has nary a straight section over ten miles, with lots of shallow ups and downs so that you’re constantly one your toes, shifting positions and changing direction. The LOOK VO2 carbon bars and stem on my test bike were set up lower than I normally ride, but even in this slightly more aggressive position, the turning characteristics were “point & shoot”. The bike goes exactly where you tell it, responds fast, and needs minimal body English to coax it through turns. It inspired moto-gp style confidence through the fast twisters and the fast, steep, two-mile descent.

Onto the big climb that the race would take a few hours later – 3 miles up the twisting and unrelentingly steep Sierra Road. There are few places in cycling where us non-pros can really stress a frame – and a super steep climb like this is one of ‘em. The first pitch is outta the saddle straight up – and once again the laterally stiff frame was a pleasure to propel. We’re talkin’ hands on the hoods, bottom gear, pushing and pulling with everything you got steepness here – and as the bike rocked back and forth, I never felt for a second my energy was going anywhere but to push me higher. The Dura-Ace wheels never rubbed the pads – a testament to their stiff design AND the 595 frame and fork.

Our last few miles pedaling into the finish in San Jose were fast and easy – partly because my cohort and photog for the day (Allen from LOOK-USA) were stoked from the awesome ride, partly because we finally had a tailwind, and partly (mostly?) because I still felt great on the 595 – like I could go for another 3 hours.

This is a bike I want to ride more – sure it looks cool – big graphics and crisp white paint scheme – but now because of the way it feels – fast AND comfortable… that my friends is a nice combo.

the bike with the quicker rider on it.

Seriously, there is no meaningful difference in acceleration between bikes. Rotating mass is likely to yield a more noticeable difference, yet the difference in acceleration between various wheels is minimal at most.

As for what frame feels stiffer, that's really a function of the rider and how that rider interprets things. Energy losses in frames are very, very small, and there has never been any data that's shown that a stiffer bike frame performs better.

Still, you should ride what feels best to you. So with that in mind, you should beg, borrow, or steal to get a test ride on each of these bikes. I'll bet Chas could direct you to a place near you that would let you take a test ride on a 595. I dunno what Colnago dealers usually stock, but it would be worth a bit of a drive to test ride an EP. The cost of gas would be minimal compared to the cost of either frame.

there is no difference in my time at any given distance on the kg 381 I'm riding now or a 595?

there is no difference in my time at any given distance on the kg 381 I'm riding now or a 595?

You'll go faster on the one which is most comfortable. Any weight difference has a minimal effect. Sure there is some difference, but that difference is small, in the real world.

You'll also go faster--for a while at least--on the one that pushes your buttons the most.

You'll go faster on the one which is most comfortable. Any weight difference has a minimal effect. Sure there is some difference, but that difference is small, in the real world.

You'll also go faster--for a while at least--on the one that pushes your buttons the most.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. I bought another kg 381 from a bike shop on ebay and the guy from the shop was raving about the 595 after I asked him for a comparison. I guess I'm still susceptible to enthusiastic reviews although my logical side puts little stock in them.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. I bought another kg 381 from a bike shop on ebay and the guy from the shop was raving about the 595 after I asked him for a comparison. I guess I'm still susceptible to enthusiastic reviews although my logical side puts little stock in them.

Yeah, you always have to take reviews--especially, it seems, LBS reviews--with a rather large grain of salt. In a few weeks, I'll be on a new 595. My current ride is a Ti frame. After a longish test ride on the 595, the difference between the two was not so huge, but the 595 was slightly better. I'd say that's because of the more favorable geometry.

When I moved from a custom steel frame to the current Ti frame, again the difference was a hair more than subtle but not so much as to prompt a "yo, mama!" Again, geometry was a bit better on the Ti frame. There was a 2 lb weight loss going from the steel to the Ti frame, but that weight loss isn't noticeble on the road.

[QUOTE=veloci1]
>what BB feels stiffer for you the 595 or EP?

like I said, I have c50 not EP, but still c50 feels little stiffer in BB then 595 origin, I think EP is something you should compare with 595ultra regarding stiffness.

>when climbing, what takes off faster, the 595 or EP?

595, no doubt about that

>in a group ride. which bike do you think will react to a sprint quicker?

I'm a lousy sprinter, but I suppose EP, after all they made that frame for sprinters

One more thing is to consider, you can get custom geometry in colnago for just 200euros more, like I did, and the bike that fits you like tailor-suit is something you will enjoy most :-) on the other hand 595 (L) has almost perfect geometry for me (except low head tube, I need almost 3,5 cm of spacers) so I feel very good on both frames.