I'm thinking of moving up to carbon but don't want to spend too much. My brother, the expert in the family, tells me I should get a bike with Campy. I'm sure he has Record in mind, but I'm cheap. The Onix TDI has Campy Mirage and, at $2100, is about the price I'm willing to spend. I'll be test riding an Onix in the next couple of weeks, but it will have to be one outfitted with Shimano. The bike shop has no floor models of any kind with Campy. I've never tried Campy, and I know that Mirage is way down the Campy pecking order. Assuming that I like the Orbea w/ Shimano, would I be foolish to take the plunge and order the TDI?

Although I'm strictly a Campy user, I wouldn't go lower than Veloce in the Campy line or 105 in the Shimano line. Below those lines, you're getting into some really cheap parts. Shimano Tiagra is still 9 speed. I you ride several thousand miles a year, you'll probably wish you'd moved up the line.

What Shimano group is the LBS putting on the frame that you will be testing? Campy is all i have ridden (and ever will), so perhaps I am a bit biased. Basically they all do the same thing, just in a different fashion. I personally prefer the shifting and feel of Campy to Shimano. That being said, the Mirage is probably not a great choice if you are dropping 2100.00 on the bike. You can basically compare the two companys products as follows (based on weight/performance):

Campy Veloce = Shimano 105
Campy Centaur/older Chorus = Shimano Ultegra
Campy Chorus (carbon/UT) = Shimano DA
Campy Record = ?

The Mirage is a bit heavy and slow shifting. If you are getting Campy, I would spend up and AT LEAST get Veloce, especiallay if you are spending that much on a bike. Ultimately, the best thing to do is ride boht Campy and Shimano, get a feel for the shifting differences, ergonomics, and feel of the mechanism, and choose which company feels best and fits the budget.

They say Campy wears in and ShimaNO wears out. I can't talk about ShimaNO but I can confirm my Campy Chorus from 2001 is going strong despite being ridden most days, has needed very very little service. If anything wears out small spare parts are readily available. This may be the case for the alternative too, but as I say I don't know.

I agree, do not go below Veloce or 105 if you can avoid it.:thumbsup:

I guess it's unanimous. I'll stay away from Mirage. I still want to ride an Onix, though. The shop has an TDF, which is all Ultegra, and a TDA (I think), which is 105. As far as trying a bike with Campy, they're few and far between around here.

Even in a large metro area, most shops will have 99% (or more) of their bikes equipped with Shimano. Since that's their choice, I respond by buying nothing from any of them. There's not much difference in setting up a Campy bike, except for properly mounting the brake/shift levers and doing a proper job of taping up the hidden cables.

In the price range you're looking at I'd consider a LOOK 555 frame from E-bay and build it up myself.

Pretty much anything below veloce in the campy lineup sucks beyond suckage. If you want the best bang for your buck go with shimano 105. I would choose 105 over centaur any day as well.
I don't know why everyone hates shimano so much on these forums. It essentially weighs the same, works just as well- if not better in the lower end gruppos, costs less and has a far better track record on reliability.
Everyone rides Shimano because shimano built a better product for less money than Campy up until about 10 years ago. Campy was utter garbage in the late 80's and early 90's allowing Shimano to dominate the market. Not saying that Campy is bad, but all the Shimano hate is misplaced. .

I've had several Campy & Shimano euipped bikes. IMO, there's nothing that beats Chorus or Record. Shimano Ultegra and Dura Ace are also very excellent. You'd love either one. Below Chorus level, I'd personally go with Shimano 105. It's an excellent bargain for the $$. Below the 105, I'd probably wait & save my money until I could afford it, or look for something used.

My $.02.

If you can find an 07 somewhere, try to find the Onix TDE. It has SRAM RIval, which is a groupset worth trying. I like its ergonomics, though the shifting takes a little getting used to...

I went to a local shop recently and compared Ultegra bikes to the one Centaur equipped bike in the shop and got the exact opposite impression. Centaur brakes, for instance, have a better finish and metal cable adjusters instead of cheap plastic. Campy did make a big mistake in '07, downgrading the shifters so they work a lot more like Shimano. No thank you. I'll pay more for Chorus or Record shifters.

Most people who get into cycling go to a LBS to buy their first bike and all they see is Shimano, so it may be many years later before they even know Campy exists. I rode for about 10 years before I considered Campy, but when I bought a Tommasini Sintesi in 1995, I couldn't put Shimano on it.

I switched to Campy in 1995 after three years of riding Ultegra STI. What Campy was like before 1995 is really irrelevant to me. I liked Campy from the start and never had a desire to return to Shimano. It's really a matter of preference in the brake/shift levers for me. Campy hoods have a shorter reach and fit my small hands better. I've always liked the hidden cables. I liked having a 10 speed drivetrain in 2000, four years before Shimano finally caught up. I'm starting my 9th season on 10 speed. I've never had a single problem related to 10 speed.

Each brand has it's advantages, but in the long run, it costs no more to own a Campy equipped bike, unless you have to depend on the LBS to perform all of your service work. Some parts like cassettes cost more, but with a little searching you can get Campy cassettes for very little more. The cost of using the cassette can be cut in half with proper chain management. Campy chains will last a lot longer and they should work fine on a Shimano 10 drivetrain. Shimano users toute the fact that Ultegra cassettes are cheap, so they are often used very few miles and tossed. Actual operating costs with that method are probably higher than mine, using Chorus cassettes. If a Campy user wants to minimize cassette costs, a Veloce cassette can be bought for $70.

I think I'll look for a frameset and build it up with the components from my Tourmalet (mostly 105). Hopefully, in the near future I can do some comparison tests and decide what to finally put on the new bike. Thanks again.

I test rode the Mirage build and was truly disappointed in the shifting. To be honest, I found the latest Tiagra/Sora combination to shift better.

Just my view.

That is pretty sad that it couldnt even compare with Tiagra/Sora. I am actually a bit shocked that Mirage is even showing up on a CF frame, much less a bike that costs more than 1500.00. I am presently building up a CF frame with Chorus that I spent 5 months specing out on the internet. I ended up saving over 1100.00 by doing it on my own and finding the right components at the right prices. It may be worth taking your time, JEC, and specing it out/building it up on your own as you find the right deals on parts and components.

I agree kcdoc, I was sorely disappointed in the quality. I was very excited about the opportunity to test ride campy and it left a bad taste in my mouth. Note to Campy believers, I have not given up hope but I realize I need higher quality. Having said that, I was shocked what I view as poor components was on a 2-grand plus bicycle.

I'm thinking of moving up to carbon but don't want to spend too much. My brother, the expert in the family, tells me I should get a bike with Campy. I'm sure he has Record in mind, but I'm cheap. The Onix TDI has Campy Mirage and, at $2100, is about the price I'm willing to spend. I'll be test riding an Onix in the next couple of weeks, but it will have to be one outfitted with Shimano. The bike shop has no floor models of any kind with Campy. I've never tried Campy, and I know that Mirage is way down the Campy pecking order. Assuming that I like the Orbea w/ Shimano, would I be foolish to take the plunge and order the TDI?
The issue is that if you want this bike you only have three options. $2500 Ultegra SL, Campy Mirage or a 105 mix.

The question is a complete campy Mirage group worth $200 more than a mix of 105 and hose brand parts?

Ive ruled out the Ultegra SL as it is more than I want to spend. I found a good deal on a Campy model that would make it a bit less than the 105 mix. So assuming I could get this Campy Mirage for a little less than a 105 mix is it a good choice?

"I'm thinking of moving up to carbon but don't want to spend too much...."

What do you have now? Why do you think that carbon is "moving up" from what you currently have? Perhaps you can upgrade the components on your current bike. You can get the top Campy group on your current frameset for less money than buying a completely new bike.

Ive ruled out the Ultegra SL as it is more than I want to spend. I found a good deal on a Campy model that would make it a bit less than the 105 mix. So assuming I could get this Campy Mirage for a little less than a 105 mix is it a good choice?

I'm a Campy guy (because I like the hoods and the appearance - absolutely nothing at all against Shimano, which is very good stuff), and I would NOT go with Mirage. It's a big step down, and I don't think compares at all well with 105. Beyond me why Orbea specs that bike with Mirage.

Campy Veloce is fine, I recently built up a bike for my brother-in-law using Veloce, and it was perfectly decent. But I wouldn't go below Veloce in Campy's line. Given the choice of Mirage or 105 (and the Campy gods may strike me down for this), I'd go with 105 any day.

To the OP, a suggestion for fully built up bike at around the same price as that Orbea. Depending on your size, there are a few places around that still have 2007 Look 555 with 105 on closeout. Around $1900. Great bikes (I'm also a Look guy - truth in advertising), much better component kit.

my vote....go for the Onix TDF with full Ultegra. the Onix TDI is a step down as it has mostly 105 with some Ultegra.

my primary ride has Centaur so I would consider myself a Campy guy, however, Mirage is at the very low end of their range. I'd stay away from it. Ultegra, on the other hand, is very good and will serve you well for thousands of miles. I would say Ultegra has a very good reputation.

compromising on the components will leave you frustrated at some point. it's worth getting it right.

What qualities are you using to compare the groups (assuming weight isn't a primary factor). Shift quality, braking feel and distance, durability?

So you both are saying that even if the Campy model were a little cheaper than the 105 mix you'd still buy the 105?

Sorry if I am being dense it just seems that the if it would end up being less than the 105 bike it would be a fair compromise.

What qualities are you using to compare the groups (assuming weight isn't a primary factor). Shift quality, braking feel and distance, durability?

So you both are saying that even if the Campy model were a little cheaper than the 105 mix you'd still buy the 105?

Sorry if I am being dense it just seems that the if it would end up being less than the 105 bike it would be a fair compromise.

I think you're asking good comparison shopping questions, not being dense - that's what these forums are supposed to be for. Good on you for doing your research.

Here's my perspective. I've ridden the following groups extensively: Campy Chorus and Centaur (riding a mix of those now), and Shimano Dura Ace and Ultegra. Have test ridden bikes with Shimano 105 several times, when I was testing out frames that happened to be set up with 105. And have ridden a friend's bike with Mirage (same size as I ride) a couple of times when helping him with tune ups. My issues with Mirage are very clearly in shifting - it was clunky and slow, felt cheap. It is a huge step down from the shifting of Chorus and Centaur. Even a very clear step down from the Veloce components when I built up bike for my brother-in-law. No clue about Mirage durability.

105, on the other hand, compares quite nicely in my experience to the higher end Shimano groups in shifting. I didn't notice a lot of difference from Ultegra shifting at all. And I've never heard of any issues with 105's durability, including with some pretty hard core triathletes who run 105 on their tri-bikes. Lots of people consider 105 to be a very solid "workhorse" group, and I think that's perfectly accurate. I've never heard anyone say that about Mirage.

Just checked Orbea's website regarding the Onix. It truly amazes me that their MSRP for the Onix with Mirage is higher than for the 105 spec. Note, by the way, that the 105 spec'd Onix has an Ultegra rear derailleur, so it's an up tick from pure 105. That pricing is crazy in my opinion, and seems to me to be an upcharge just for the Campy name. It certainly isn't because Mirage is comparable to or better than 105.

Even though you can get a deal on the Mirage equipped bike, I'd spend the extra for 105, every day and twice on Sunday. 105 will serve you well for years unless you decide you want to decrease the bike's weight. I don't think that's true of Mirage - you'll wind up spending a good bit more in the long run to upgrade the parts, unless you're willing to settle for sub-par performance.

Something significant to note - several Campy riders like me have replied on this thread, and not one has recommended going with the Mirage groupset. That tells you a lot.