I have built a couple of Look carbon frames before and did not face the HT or the BB shell - I will be building a third frame soon but this time everything has to be perfect as its a very expensive frame so just want to cover all the bases - please don't ask me to measure it and then face if required - all I want to know is has anyone faced a high end carbon bike, is it recommended or was this done on older steel and alu frames only?

There's absolutely no guarantee that the faces of the BB shell don't need facing. This is kind of a silly question, IMO. You're expressing great concern that the build be done right, but you're too lazy to check the BB shell to see if it needs facing? I guess you better have it faced. Personally, I'd remove any paint from both faces, screw the cups in until they contact an .010 feeler and then use feelers in the .008-.012 range to hunt for high or low spots. I really don't trust most shops to do this job properly.

I agree with your response, but I'm curious.. have you ever had issues with your LOOK frame(s) requiring facing?

I agree with your response, but I'm curious.. have you ever had issues with your LOOK frame(s) requiring facing?

I've only owned three LOOK frames and only put an outboard bearing crank on one of them, but I've never had a problem.

Actually, I've never had a BB faced in 23 years of riding and about 15 frames from Centurian, C'dale, Litespeed, Schwinn, Tommasini, Fondriest, Colnago and LOOK .

That's what I am talking about, I have never heard anyone needing to face a high end carbon frame!

I have built a couple of Look carbon frames before and did not face the HT or the BB shell - I will be building a third frame soon but this time everything has to be perfect as its a very expensive frame so just want to cover all the bases - please don't ask me to measure it and then face if required - all I want to know is has anyone faced a high end carbon bike, is it recommended or was this done on older steel and alu frames only?

I ALWAYS face my BB's before any build. At least then, after its completed, I know its done correctly. And it gives me many miles of worry free riding. High-end or not, no BB is perfect. Not even on the most expensive frames.

I ALWAYS face my BB's before any build. At least then, after its completed, I know its done correctly. And it gives me many miles of worry free riding. High-end or not, no BB is perfect. Not even on the most expensive frames.

So, your message is that you have the skills, but the bike companies don't. Full stop? Your statement seems a bit over the top to me. Just saying.

So, your message is that you have the skills, but the bike companies don't. Full stop? Your statement seems a bit over the top to me. Just saying.

No Kerry. What I said is that each BB is different on every frame. I spent the money on the tools, might as well put it to good use. (If you use new SRAM Force or Red BB's I think any mechanic will appreciate this statement) After facing the BB area the build process goes very smoothly. It's not uncommon for me to spend 75% of my build time prepping everything and the other 25% acutally wrenching. Some may share your opinion Kerry. Maybe I am a liitle over top. But I'll take that as a compliment. From my personal experience, taking the extra time to get certain areas of a frame ready pays big dividends in the long run. Just saying...:thumbsup:

From my personal experience, taking the extra time to get certain areas of a frame ready pays big dividends in the long run. Just saying...:thumbsup:

Time invested in prep is time saved trying to figure out where that creaking sound is coming from in 3mo. No matter who does it, facing/chasing the BB and facing the HT is something I always do on new frames, new or used.

I've never seen a non-custom, non-prepped bike with surfaces that are as clean as a newly faced surface. Mass production just ain't an exact science.

Time invested in prep is time saved trying to figure out where that creaking sound is coming from in 3mo. No matter who does it, facing/chasing the BB and facing the HT is something I always do on new frames, new or used.

I've never seen a non-custom, non-prepped bike with surfaces that are as clean as a newly faced surface. Mass production just ain't an exact science.

Neither is facing at home.

So how about throwing some figures my way on modern carbon frames BB shell dimensions that indicated facing was required.

The way I look at it is that if the BB requires facing, the problem goes beyond that - it means the BB shell was not aligned properly which leads to greater problems in Geometry, alignment and residual stress of the frame - facing it is not going to solve any of that!

Neither is facing at home.

Exactly why I pay a qualified wrench with the right tools do it for me.....

Toon, which Look frame are you working with? Is the face of the BB shell clean/bare Al/Ti or covered in paint?

If the shell is clean and appears like it has already been prepped, measure it up and see if there's a problem. If the shell isn't clean, find a shop with the tools who know what they're doing.

Exactly why I pay a qualified wrench with the right tools do it for me.....

Toon, which Look frame are you working with? Is the face of the BB shell clean/bare Al/Ti or covered in paint?

If the shell is clean and appears like it has already been prepped, measure it up and see if there's a problem. If the shell isn't clean, find a shop with the tools who know what they're doing.

My point was there isn't much, at all, that is an exact science. In fact, in the world of physics, there are very few exact solutions.

Bike manufacturers can certainly face a BB just as well, if not better, than any LBS. Whether they do, or not, depends on the manufacturer. My Ti frame's BB faces were dead nuts parallel, at least to the resolution of the measurement. I'm also willing to bet that frames from small builders--Parlee, Crumpton, Ruegamer, et al--are faced properly. Likely, a fair number of the larger builders face their BB's well, too.

That's not to say that checking is out of order, but it is a bit hasty to say that they all need faced.

So how about throwing some figures my way on modern carbon frames BB shell dimensions that indicated facing was required.

The way I look at it is that if the BB requires facing, the problem goes beyond that - it means the BB shell was not aligned properly which leads to greater problems in Geometry, alignment and residual stress of the frame - facing it is not going to solve any of that!

That's a big leap that doesn't follow, and none of those are necessarily related or bound to follow one after the other.

So how about throwing some figures my way on modern carbon frames BB shell dimensions that indicated facing was required.

The way I look at it is that if the BB requires facing, the problem goes beyond that - it means the BB shell was not aligned properly which leads to greater problems in Geometry, alignment and residual stress of the frame - facing it is not going to solve any of that!

My first response detailed how to check the alignment, after carefully scraping off the paint. Keep in mind that only the faces of the BB shell can be made perpendicular to the threads. It is possible to have the threads misaligned and that can't be fixed without oversizing the threads.

You're overthinking the significance of a BB shell needing a few thousandth's of an inch removed. Residual stress??? From what?

From my personal experience, taking the extra time to get certain areas of a frame ready pays big dividends in the long run. Just saying.

And from my personal experience, the last 9 frames I've dealt with were all dead on from the factory/builder, not needing any facing whatsoever before installing the BB.

I wouldn't mess with or worry about facing a bb on any high end carbon frame these days. BB's are a machine cut pices of pipe threaded and ready to be welded/lugged/glued into place in most cases today. As long as the jig is right things are right. That said even if things are off a chasing/threading tool won't necessarily get things right.

I try to add a new tool to my kit every year and its a new year, but as I will be building up a few bikes over the next few months I though I add two - don't really want to invest in a facing tool when its unlikely that I will ever use one - better to spend the dough on something more practical - currently looking at a an alignment tool and a truing stand (while on topic of wheels and tools whats the purpose of a dishing tool - is it to straighten a bent rim? Does it work in real life or better to replace?).

So I guess I could phrase my initial post differently and ask which 2 tools would be the best to add to the basic tool kit (I already have all the basics to build a bike - except the facing tool).

Facing and chasing tools are very expensive compared to truing stands and dishing tools. You need to spend some time at www.parktool.com to get a better understanding of cycling mechanics.

Truing stands come in cheap, basic versions that do nothing but hold the wheel and provide a pointer to set near the rim, allowing the spokes to be adjusted, so the rim has little side to side runout. The rim also needs to be checked for roundness, with a pointer near the OD of the rim.

Fancy truing stands, like Park's top model can also insure that the rim is centered between the ends of the axle. I have this model, but it's not foolproof. The centering feature can be knocked out of adjustment and provide an incorrect reading if not corrected.

Any stand can tell you if the rim in centered, just by placing the pointer close to the rim, then flipping the wheel so the ends of the axle change from left to right. If the distance from the rim to the pointer changes, the rim is not centered. For the best accuracy, check the dish at about the same point around the rim, like near the valve stem hole or some reference decal on the rim.

A dishing tool takes the same centering measurement, off the truing stand. It's placed on the rim with the pointer very close to the axle. The wheel is flipped and measured from the other side. If the pointer is not the same distance from the pointer, then it's not centered.

I'm building up a Specialized Roubaix module that came with BB installed. But looking over instructions, it clearly states that their frames should not be faced.

For what its worth:
I purchased a new Colnago Extreme Power frameset from my LBS. When it came in, I asked them to face the BB before I picked it up (I was going to do the build myself).
When I went to the shop the next day, they told me they had called the US distributor, Veltec, and they had said that you were not supposed to face the BB shells on this frame. Not sure if it is because you'd be scraping away carbon? Anyway, didn't face it, and haven't had any issues.