Been looking around for a while now for my first CF bike.
I like the look of the Pinarello F4:13 and Look 585.
Anyone have any experience with both of these??
Any good deals on frame/fork??
Looking for a 58 or preferably 59cm TT (is 59cm an option for Look??)

Plan is to build it up myself (hate buying off the floor), for general riding but also for doing some criteriums.
Build in my head is Ritchey WCS stem, bar and seatpost; SLR saddle; SRAM Force groupset and Ksyrium ES's
My current bike is a 1993 Colnago Master Olympic which is great but probably a little heavy for racing at nearly 20lb.
New bike will need to be capable of handling Crits but still comfortable enough for everyday riding.

I have ridden both. I think the Look has a more comfortable ride and is available stiff if you go the Ultra route. The Pinarello seemed to be a little quicker handling. Both are pretty good but I would go the Look Ultra if I had to choose.

I have not ridden the Look 585 or 595. But I just bought a Pinarello 4:13 a few weeks ago from a dealer who also sells Look. He said the Look was more race oriented and had a stiffer/harsher ride than the 4:13.

My 4:13 is built with Campy Chorus Carbon, Campy Eurus wheels,Deda Newton Stem, FSA K Force Carbon bar. etc.

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Weather has been uncooperative lately, so I haven't really been on too many long rides yet. But I've taken some rides that left quite a smile on my face! I agree the handling is very quick. Bordering on twitchy compared to my former Trek 5200 OCLV, or other more relaxed geometry bijes. I'm not a racer. Just a recreational rider, club rides, fitness, occassional tours and an annual Century. The handling might be a bit fast for me. The jury is still out. But I really love it. On looks alone, this bike is pure sexy!

QUOTE: He said the Look was more race oriented and had a stiffer/harsher ride than the 4:13.

I tested both. 585 was lighter, more agile, acclerated better, stiffer to me in rear but more comfy in road feel. Paris carbon is even more comfy to me--go that route. it is like a blend of 585 and time vxrs qualities.

at one time i had both a 585 and paris carbon--i liked the look of the 585 a bit more, and the comfort of the paris was a little better. but as i rarely ride over 2 hrs now i went with the 585 and sold the paris.
I think the 585 is a great deal and look usa (chas here on the forum service is awesome)

FWIW, i think you should use something else in a crit

good luck
jim

Figures the Paris is the more comfort oriented ride. I knew that, but it was also more expensive and they were making me a good deal on a 2007 4:13 that was my size and I loved how it was already spec'd. But who knows, maybe I'll upgrade to a Paris? The Looks seem equally awesome. Thanks for the info. It means a lot to hear from someone who has ridden or owned bikes that are being compared. That is the best! So thanks! I just hope I didn't make a bad choice since I am not, nor will I ever be a racer.

After a visit to a LBS the Paris is certainly on the list.
For some reason, over here the Paris is a limited edition in 30k weave and the price for the frame fork is only $3500 Australian vs over $4000 for the f4:13.
Price for the Look 585 is similar as is the Time Edge.
BMC SLC01 seems the best bang for buck at $2500.
These prices still seem stupid expensive to me when I see what I can get them from the US or Europe for.

Time Edge (First or Racer) are much cheaper than Look 585 here is Australia. Time Edge price is similar to Look 555. I know that because I priced all of them and bought Time Edge First in Jan 2007 (9000km so far in 12 months, no regrets). I also priced F4:13 which was closer to Look 585 price than to Time Edge price. I agree that prices in Australia are stupid high. www.Chainreactioncycles.com sells Time modules for much less than local AUS delivery but you may have warranty and build issues with foreign delivery.

IMHO Pinarello F3:13, F4:13 etc *look* the best even though Look and Time also look great, to me. The local magazine reviews said 3:13 and 4:13 had *relatively* harsh rides. Same magazines loved the ride qualities of Look and Time. I guess French know how to engineer a great ride after all! Enjoy it, whatever you buy.

IMHO Pinarello F3:13, F4:13 etc *look* the best even though Look and Time also look great, to me. The local magazine reviews said 3:13 and 4:13 had *relatively* harsh rides. Same magazines loved the ride qualities of Look and Time. I guess French know how to engineer a great ride after all! Enjoy it, whatever you buy.

Hmmm. Pinarellos would look great if they got rid of the freakin' acid trip forks and seat stays.

I think the Pinarello is more visually attractive, but after researching frame prices, I would go with a Look. It's a far better value....

Interesting to hear the comments on ride quality. The 585 is fast although not Look's criterium bike, that would be the 595 - much stiffer and more responsive. Further the 585 may be stiffer than the Pinarello, I have a 585 - have not ridden the Pino, but it is extremely comfortable over the long haul. The 585 Utra will give you a more responsive ride than the standard 585, but still not as stiff as the 595.

I'dove to have to make this decision - good luck

Interesting to hear the comments on ride quality. The 585 is fast although not Look's criterium bike, that would be the 595 - much stiffer and more responsive. Further the 585 may be stiffer than the Pinarello, I have a 585 - have not ridden the Pino, but it is extremely comfortable over the long haul. The 585 Utra will give you a more responsive ride than the standard 585, but still not as stiff as the 595.

I'dove to have to make this decision - good luck

Well, I'd have to say that I think any perceptions of responsiveness cannot be ascribed to any particular component and are the result of emotional bias. So very little energy is wasted in frames that it's highly debatable that anyone can detect that energy differential. One frame is as fast as another.

Well I am still torn as to which one I like best.
I have had a proper full bike fit and the recommendation is fo me to be on a 59cm TT with a 100mm stem but that I can get away with a 58cm TT with a 110mm stem which is what I am currently riding.
Look only has a 57.5cm TT or a 59cm TT so I am thinking that it is the XXL or nothing for me there. This may mean that ebay will be out of the question. Obviously the Pinarello should be easier to come across in either the 58 or 59cm frame.
The search continues.

Any thoughts on Cervelo Soloist carbon? That seatpost flipping option is so cool!

Well I am still torn as to which one I like best.
I have had a proper full bike fit and the recommendation is fo me to be on a 59cm TT with a 100mm stem but that I can get away with a 58cm TT with a 110mm stem which is what I am currently riding.
Look only has a 57.5cm TT or a 59cm TT so I am thinking that it is the XXL or nothing for me there. This may mean that ebay will be out of the question. Obviously the Pinarello should be easier to come across in either the 58 or 59cm frame.
The search continues.

Look at the head tube size to see if you will need spacers or not with your current saddle to bar drop. Choose the one that uses the least amount of spacers....

Check my use of words Forrest - a better way to say it may be road feedback is greater from the 595 than the 585 - 595 definitely stiffer. Although I will say when you jump on the 595 your efforts seem to make the bike jump faster than the 585. Certainly your speed doesn't change.

Well I am still torn as to which one I like best.
I have had a proper full bike fit and the recommendation is fo me to be on a 59cm TT with a 100mm stem but that I can get away with a 58cm TT with a 110mm stem which is what I am currently riding.
Look only has a 57.5cm TT or a 59cm TT so I am thinking that it is the XXL or nothing for me there. This may mean that ebay will be out of the question. Obviously the Pinarello should be easier to come across in either the 58 or 59cm frame.
The search continues.

That suggestion makes no sense to me. A 100mm stem is too short for such a large frame. A 110or 120 would be better. The seat tube angle also has to be considered, since it affects the frame reach. TT length alone does not determine reach.

Every bit as important is the head tube length, with the headset. Be sure you know how much spacer and what stem angle will be required to produce the desired bar height.