Why ohbama for president:mad2:

Why ohbama for president:mad2:

Why not?

At least you could spell the man's name correctly. Next you'll be telling us he shouldn't be president because his middle name is Hussein.

You said it not me:D

Impressive debut for ralph1968.

Impressive debut for ralph1968.

Indeed it is.

I'm sure he'll next state something about his "real" name being Barack Mohammed Hussein Obama, as the conservative talk show hosts started calling him today.

Nice job Ralph!

Now, tell us why you don't think Obama should be President. I'm still waiting for an explanation.

Impressive debut for ralph1968.
Well thank you very much.

Well thank you very much.

Do you have anything of substance to add?

Why, again, don't you think Obama would be a good president?

Just trying to get your thread moving and flowing, and it sounds like you might not be interested in discussing your viewpoints. Yes? No?

IIIIIIIIIIIIII might not get therrrrrrre with youuuu!

Actually, Mr. B Hussien Obama just sounds like MLK. His message is pure Duval Patrick, aka Governor of Mass.

Pacificst, open borders, tax raising, socializied medicine preaching man of the people Obama is a messenger of hope if you're a can't get out of your own burden on the economy way. If you are a producer, not so much.

If change is becoming a socialist nation where Uncle Sam takes care of you from cradle to grave, Obama/Hillary/Edwards are your candidate.

But, if you'd like to stay an actual American, ask yourself what the definition of change is.

Barack Ohhhbaaaama!. Sorry, just using the OOOOOOPrah prunuciation.

Indeed it is.

I'm sure he'll next state something about his "real" name being Barack Mohammed Hussein Obama, as the conservative talk show hosts started calling him today.

Nice job Ralph!

Now, tell us why you don't think Obama should be President. I'm still waiting for an explanation.

On account of he's a Democrat. Duh!

Indeed it is.

I'm sure he'll next state something about his "real" name being Barack Mohammed Hussein Obama, as the conservative talk show hosts started calling him today.

Nice job Ralph!

Now, tell us why you don't think Obama should be President. I'm still waiting for an explanation.
Simple who is he and what has he done:thumbsup:

Do you have anything of substance to add?

Why, again, don't you think Obama would be a good president?

Just trying to get your thread moving and flowing, and it sounds like you might not be interested in discussing your viewpoints. Yes? No?

than one that is synomomous with puking?

IIIIIIIIIIIIII might not get therrrrrrre with youuuu!

Actually, Mr. B Hussien Obama just sounds like MLK. His message is pure Duval Patrick, aka Governor of Mass.

Pacificst, open borders, tax raising, socializied medicine preaching man of the people Obama is a messenger of hope if you're a can't get out of your own burden on the economy way. If you are a producer, not so much.

If change is becoming a socialist nation where Uncle Sam takes care of you from cradle to grave, Obama/Hillary/Edwards are your candidate.

But, if you'd like to stay an actual American, ask yourself what the definition of change is.

Barack Ohhhbaaaama!. Sorry, just using the OOOOOOPrah prunuciation.

So do you use roads? If so, better stop. The government maintains those things that you most likely use. I mean, it is a government thing and all.

I hope that your house doesn't burn down. Turns out the government provides fire protection as well.

Hope that your house doesn't get broken into. Cops are government provided.

Have any tainted drug issues? Hope not, once again, government regulation watching over you.

You guys like to say that you're for "personal freedom and self reliance" but it doesn't really ever occur to you that there are lots of things that you government, local and federal, do for all of us. And you make it sound like EVERYONE in the country having healthcare is a "bad" thing? I don't get that.

Let me ask you this. Do you pay for your entire health insurance? Or does whatever company you work for pay for some of it, and you pay for some of it like most Americans? Because if you do have company paid for health benefits, in order to fit into your description of self reliance, you'd better tell your company that they shouldn't contribute any money to that cause, because you'll pay for it all your own, being self reliant that you are and all.

Guess what? Our borders are pretty darn open already and who is running the show and has been for quite a few years now? Yes, Bush, a republican.

Obama wants to raise taxes, on the richest folks, who are not paying their fair share. Do you think it's fair that someone making a ton o' money pays about 15% of their income, while folks in the middle and lower classes are paying more than 25%? Hmm... OK then. Unless you're one of those top earners, guess what? Tax increases aren't going to affect you, and once again, your republican president has been spending out of his arsehole for over 7 years, and has done what? Cut taxes, and we have what? A huge deficit. How do we get out of that? Raise more money, or do you want to be beholden to foreign countries like China who hold a lot of our loans right now, and do you want the American dollar to keep losing value? Cause, guess what? Keep Bush's tax cuts in place, that's what is going to happen, but hey, don't worry about it right?

Don't worry, we're so far from socialism, it's not even funny, and we'll never be a socialist country, but we can be a country that takes care of its own people, and especially the ones who can't take care of themselves. I'd be an even prouder American if we were that type of country, instead of the one where we currently allow the "rich to get richer, and the poor to get poorer".

Aside from that, all of your ascertains hold what we like to call, no water.

IIIIIIIIIIIIII might not get therrrrrrre with youuuu!

Actually, Mr. B Hussien Obama just sounds like MLK. His message is pure Duval Patrick, aka Governor of Mass.

Pacificst, open borders, tax raising, socializied medicine preaching man of the people Obama is a messenger of hope if you're a can't get out of your own burden on the economy way. If you are a producer, not so much.

If change is becoming a socialist nation where Uncle Sam takes care of you from cradle to grave, Obama/Hillary/Edwards are your candidate.

But, if you'd like to stay an actual American, ask yourself what the definition of change is.
.

have you ever actually checked to see how the 'producers' did under Clinton?

but I guess you prefer tax cutting to the top 5%, spending like a crack addict with a stolen SS#, open borders with 'guest visas' so we can undercut our own workers, lying to start wars, spying on our own people, wiping their bottoms with the Constitution....

Ain't no black man running this country. Maybe in 30-40 years. See, the old school democrats still hate the black man. They grew up in an era that they did not like them. They also grew up in an era where women did not have authority.

Times have changed, but the mind-set of a lot of older democrats has not. So what are their options??? A black or a women.

Now, the younger generations are familar and accustomed to minorites in power and females. Osama Bama will be the "rock-star" like Kerry and every rich celebrity will say it is cool to vote for him. If you are a celebrity like Oprah and Baldwin, they have so mcuh god dam money that they can take 1/2 of what you have and you would never know.

So, when the liberal media gives Osama Bama all the coverage over the Rep. nominee, they will make it like he is winning. When it is time to vote, most of the younger generations--18-25 who said they would vote when they were getting their free Ipod at the Pearl Jam concert at their college for Moveon.org, they will be hung-over or trying to score some weed or playing WII all afternoon and they will forget to vote,.

All along, the old school democrats are watching every debate and they realize that this guys really doesn't know sh$t, rather just a pretty face that can speak well. Then, they will start listening to the Rep candidate and realize he actually knows what he is talking about.

It is that simple. If they couldn't find a way to beat Bush, then I doubt they will find a way out of a paper bag

for 2008.

either it is puppet season or we better go shopping cause we don't have enough cheese to go around

first post and my guess, lifetime ban

Ain't no black man running this country. Maybe in 30-40 years. See, the old school democrats still hate the black man. They grew up in an era that they did not like them. They also grew up in an era where women did not have authority.

Times have changed, but the mind-set of a lot of older democrats has not. So what are their options??? A black or a women.

Now, the younger generations are familar and accustomed to minorites in power and females. Osama Bama will be the "rock-star" like Kerry and every rich celebrity will say it is cool to vote for him. If you are a celebrity like Oprah and Baldwin, they have so mcuh god dam money that they can take 1/2 of what you have and you would never know.

So, when the liberal media gives Osama Bama all the coverage over the Rep. nominee, they will make it like he is winning. When it is time to vote, most of the younger generations--18-25 who said they would vote when they were getting their free Ipod at the Pearl Jam concert at their college for Moveon.org, they will be hung-over or trying to score some weed or playing WII all afternoon and they will forget to vote,.

All along, the old school democrats are watching every debate and they realize that this guys really doesn't know sh$t, rather just a pretty face that can speak well. Then, they will start listening to the Rep candidate and realize he actually knows what he is talking about.

It is that simple. If they couldn't find a way to beat Bush, then I doubt they will find a way out of a paper bag
AND HOW:thumbsup:

AND HOW:thumbsup:


Clearly explained. Seniors are a very large portion of the voting population and they are not voting a black man or a women. I couldn't make it much easier. I can talk all big and use big words, and throw in Iraq and immigration, but that means nothing.

It is still alive and it exists.

Simple who is he and what has he done:thumbsup:

I use a thing called THE GOOGLE when I surf the interwebs. It has all the answers you are looking for. I don't think I would use a forum for my factual information.

I predict great things for this thread.

Ain't no black man running this country. Maybe in 30-40 years. See, the old school democrats still hate the black man. They grew up in an era that they did not like them. They also grew up in an era where women did not have authority.

Times have changed, but the mind-set of a lot of older democrats has not. So what are their options??? A black or a women.

Now, the younger generations are familar and accustomed to minorites in power and females. Osama Bama will be the "rock-star" like Kerry and every rich celebrity will say it is cool to vote for him. If you are a celebrity like Oprah and Baldwin, they have so mcuh god dam money that they can take 1/2 of what you have and you would never know.

So, when the liberal media gives Osama Bama all the coverage over the Rep. nominee, they will make it like he is winning. When it is time to vote, most of the younger generations--18-25 who said they would vote when they were getting their free Ipod at the Pearl Jam concert at their college for Moveon.org, they will be hung-over or trying to score some weed or playing WII all afternoon and they will forget to vote,.

All along, the old school democrats are watching every debate and they realize that this guys really doesn't know sh$t, rather just a pretty face that can speak well. Then, they will start listening to the Rep candidate and realize he actually knows what he is talking about.

It is that simple. If they couldn't find a way to beat Bush, then I doubt they will find a way out of a paper bag



Dude, chill. The war is over. Wait, sorry, no it is not.

Clearly explained. Seniors are a very large portion of the voting population and they are not voting a black man or a women. I couldn't make it much easier. I can talk all big and use big words, and throw in Iraq and immigration, but that means nothing.

It is still alive and it exists.
iAGREE 100%:D

Dude, chill. The war is over. Wait, sorry, no it is not.
My son the war is not even close to being over just a little hidden

My son the war is not even close to being over just a little hidden


Hopefully some day. For the safety of our troops. For it or against it, people still need to support them and find a way to bring our heros home safely where they belong. At home with their familes.

Meh......

is simply comical......OH.....I am just sitting here laughing.....thinking about socks and all.

Anyhoo, I am a republican, and I am definitely not voting for any of the current republican candidates. McCain is simply Bush v2.0, and Huckabee is the most dangerous man in politics with his stringent religious right viewpoint. Religion is the most dangerous thing man has ever created, and it certainly has no place in the WH.....Romney I could maybe stomach, but he won't win, and has never really clearly defined what he is, or what he is about. He's kinda like a conservative version of Kerry.

The problem is the current admin calls itself republican, when in fact it is so far from the party that Roosevelt and then Goldwater represented, that I don't recognize it anymore. This neocon bastardization needs to die a quick and hopefully painful death.

So, I think I will vote either dem or indepedent this election. Of course the RNC sheep will continue to vote without thought, and it'll probably be Huckabee nominated. :rolleyes:

So do you use roads? If so, better stop. The government maintains those things that you most likely use. I mean, it is a government thing and all.

I hope that your house doesn't burn down. Turns out the government provides fire protection as well.

Hope that your house doesn't get broken into. Cops are government provided.

Have any tainted drug issues? Hope not, once again, government regulation watching over you.

You guys like to say that you're for "personal freedom and self reliance" but it doesn't really ever occur to you that there are lots of things that you government, local and federal, do for all of us. And you make it sound like EVERYONE in the country having healthcare is a "bad" thing? I don't get that.

Let me ask you this. Do you pay for your entire health insurance? Or does whatever company you work for pay for some of it, and you pay for some of it like most Americans? Because if you do have company paid for health benefits, in order to fit into your description of self reliance, you'd better tell your company that they shouldn't contribute any money to that cause, because you'll pay for it all your own, being self reliant that you are and all.

Guess what? Our borders are pretty darn open already and who is running the show and has been for quite a few years now? Yes, Bush, a republican.

Obama wants to raise taxes, on the richest folks, who are not paying their fair share. Do you think it's fair that someone making a ton o' money pays about 15% of their income, while folks in the middle and lower classes are paying more than 25%? Hmm... OK then. Unless you're one of those top earners, guess what? Tax increases aren't going to affect you, and once again, your republican president has been spending out of his arsehole for over 7 years, and has done what? Cut taxes, and we have what? A huge deficit. How do we get out of that? Raise more money, or do you want to be beholden to foreign countries like China who hold a lot of our loans right now, and do you want the American dollar to keep losing value? Cause, guess what? Keep Bush's tax cuts in place, that's what is going to happen, but hey, don't worry about it right?

Don't worry, we're so far from socialism, it's not even funny, and we'll never be a socialist country, but we can be a country that takes care of its own people, and especially the ones who can't take care of themselves. I'd be an even prouder American if we were that type of country, instead of the one where we currently allow the "rich to get richer, and the poor to get poorer".

Aside from that, all of your ascertains hold what we like to call, no water.

You don't really think that raising taxes is necessary to pay for roads, fire protection, the police, and the FDA do you? 3 out of 4 which are paid thru municipal taxes btw.

Government health care for everybody is by definition Socialized medicine. Hillary wants to take 10 Billion from oil corporations? Good idea, I'm sure that won't have any unintended consequences on Wall Street.

Let me guess, you're not one of the richest types that you think should be soaked by the government. Where is it in the constitution that the top producers have to pay the way for everybody else? All created equal unless you make alot of money then you have to pay for people that would rather have a big screen TV and a new car instead of paying for their doctor's help: doesn't seem to be on of the amendments that I a familiar with.

So, if I am clever enough to bankroll a bunch of money then the government should take half of it when I die? Land of the free, home of the brave, indeed.

The rich and the poor get what they get according to what they produce. Incidently comrade, The poor don't pay the freight in this country. The rich do. The rich also create the jobs, risk the capital that creates new opportunities, and more often than not pump their dollars into the economy.

Rich people paying 15% of their income? Wow, that's a deal that I have to get. Urban legend or liberal winnie trust fund babies. Rich folks that I know pay alot higher percentage. It's real easy to point to some rich boogeyman for one's personal shortcomings, but it's another thing to pull yourself up and make a difference.

How do you know what taxes do to me? BTW, Einstein, revenue is out the roof thanks to lower taxes. Want to raise more money, than lower taxes. Tax cuts are not the problem. Of course China wants to invest in the US. There isn't a better bet out there than us.

I do agree with you about spending. While its true that we're at war, which was declared upon us, we are spending too much, Want my opinion, we've paid for our nukes lets use them, and save some money in this useless ground struggle.

Irregardless, spending is out of control. Let's cut it drastically. We can cut spending drastically and still maintain roads, fire service, police service, and even the FDA.

I'd be a prouder American if half the country wasn't caught up in some fantasy class war struggle, and instead took advantage of the incredible opportunity that is available to Americans.

Telling people that they're being held down by the man is not helpful. It's simply a way to gain electoral victory.

We've heard that "the rich create jobs for the poor" BS since Reagan. The only poor peeps who are getting jobs are Chinese.

have you ever actually checked to see how the 'producers' did under Clinton?

but I guess you prefer tax cutting to the top 5%, spending like a crack addict with a stolen SS#, open borders with 'guest visas' so we can undercut our own workers, lying to start wars, spying on our own people, wiping their bottoms with the Constitution....

Thank you for your concern about my preferences. I will now outline them because you asked so nicely.

I prefer making the tax cuts permanent, cutting spending, building a fence, cracking down on employers who hire illegals, making health care a competitive enterprise, fighting back against poeople who claim cultural superiority, and ignoring these whackjobs who preach that the sky is falling concerning climate change.

I prefer that religious types enjoy their church services and respect the strength that their belief gives them while they keep their mouths shut about it. I prefer that the government allows women to control their bodies while respecting the fact that sticking a screw driver into skulll of a seven month old fetus is just slightly icky to alot of people, I prefer that municiple governments stop getting inbetween juveniles and theif parents. I'd like to see certain folks stop trying to explain away personl short comings because of race, sex, or any other social excuse mechinism.

But, it's not about what I want, it's about the best we can do at anytime. And I know that we can get my the first paragraph done pretty damn easily, but not if we elect a Socialist, uh hum, I mean Democrat.

What lies about starting a war, and who's wiping their butts with the constitution?

Bush lied, the rich get richer, oil companies and SUV's are destroying the world, America is the root of all evil. etc etc. All that crap is in the tin foil spectrum. I don't buy it and if your party's ideas were any good you wouldn't have to either.

Grow up!

We've heard that "the rich create jobs for the poor" BS since Reagan. The only poor peeps who are getting jobs are Chinese.

Good one!

Say, how many jobs do you think have been created since Regan left office? Surely, you aren't going to answer none.

How about this question. How many more jobs have been created by poor people than rich people since Regan left office? 25% 50%. Sound absurd yet?

How many jobs have Americans created for Chinese? Europeans? What country has the largest economy?

You see Kram, all this class war BS is..... well, BS. The United States is the country of opportunity. That's why countries invest in our economy, and that's why individuals leave the land of their birth to come here.

America's top producers, you know the folks who the Socialists want to punish for their success, keep the opportunities happening. They've been doing it for a long time. And they will continue to do it, until and unless our government makes it worth their while not to.

The only BS since Regan is the BS that Regan had/has nothing to do with our current success.

Most Chinese peeps would give their left nut to be a poor peep in the US, despite what your college professor tells you.

is simply comical......OH.....I am just sitting here laughing.....thinking about socks and all.

Anyhoo, I am a republican, and I am definitely not voting for any of the current republican candidates. McCain is simply Bush v2.0, and Huckabee is the most dangerous man in politics with his stringent religious right viewpoint. Religion is the most dangerous thing man has ever created, and it certainly has no place in the WH.....Romney I could maybe stomach, but he won't win, and has never really clearly defined what he is, or what he is about. He's kinda like a conservative version of Kerry.

The problem is the current admin calls itself republican, when in fact it is so far from the party that Roosevelt and then Goldwater represented, that I don't recognize it anymore. This neocon bastardization needs to die a quick and hopefully painful death.

So, I think I will vote either dem or indepedent this election. Of course the RNC sheep will continue to vote without thought, and it'll probably be Huckabee nominated. :rolleyes:

Calm down. You're a doctor right? Deep breaths doc. Easy, keep breathing.

Of course religion is the devil incarnate, but it gives alot of folks hope, a sense of community, and something to do before the games come one Sunday afternoon. It's actually a good thing in bad thing disguise. (yes, I'm serious)

Of course v2.0, there are alot of things to find fault with the Repub candidates. But look at it this way, it could be worse, they could be the dumbocrats. What's worse a bad guy who busts into your house with a gun, or a bad guy who busts into your house with a gun and carrying a tax collector?

See my point!

Keep the faith self proclaimed republican doctor man. Huckabee is in the race to spoil Romney's chances for McCain. Problem is you can't spoil a guy who can write his own checks. This thing is going to work out. No, we won't have a perfect, or even a decent nominee, but at least our nominee won't be a socialist.

Think silver lining friend. Don't give up. I'm counting on you.

Night of the Living Sock.

We've heard that "the rich create jobs for the poor" BS since Reagan. The only poor peeps who are getting jobs are Chinese.


I love you.

Someones got to step in here and break this up.

It is getting ugly, jbrumm is sticking it to the board Liberals, and they are on the ropes, arms down, dazed, taking first body blow, then nasty uppercut, then jab...left...right...left right...jbrumm works the body again...then back to the face...Oh that's got to hurt!

Please stop this!

for 2008.

either it is puppet season or we better go shopping cause we don't have enough cheese to go around

first post and my guess, lifetime ban

First post? I don't think so. It's a sacrificial username, kinda like disposable contacts, short lifespan, but easily replaceable.

IIIIIIIIIIIIII might not get therrrrrrre with youuuu!

Actually, Mr. B Hussien Obama just sounds like MLK. His message is pure Duval Patrick, aka Governor of Mass.

Pacificst, open borders, tax raising, socializied medicine preaching man of the people Obama is a messenger of hope if you're a can't get out of your own burden on the economy way. If you are a producer, not so much.

If change is becoming a socialist nation where Uncle Sam takes care of you from cradle to grave, Obama/Hillary/Edwards are your candidate.

But, if you'd like to stay an actual American, ask yourself what the definition of change is.

Barack Ohhhbaaaama!. Sorry, just using the OOOOOOPrah prunuciation.


a socialist state like... Norway? That would be horrible.:)

Just so folks know, liberal mediator and ridin at 4:20 have been banned, because it was the same person. No sock puppets! If that person comes back, they best not call attention to themselves again for a while.

Why do newbies think this stuff will work?

As for the OP, different IP. And ralphie has gotten you all worked up very, very easily by saying very, very little.

EDIT. After seeing this thread...

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=1358490

...liberal mediator and ridin at 4:20 will NEVER be welcome back at rbr at any time. Banned on first sight. I am making sure all the other moderators know about this one.

Someones got to step in here and break this up.

It is getting ugly, jbrumm is sticking it to the board Liberals, and they are on the ropes, arms down, dazed, taking first body blow, then nasty uppercut, then jab...left...right...left right...jbrumm works the body again...then back to the face...Oh that's got to hurt!

Please stop this!

Hardly.

What jb has proven is that he can repeat the republican talking points I hear on talk radio every single day. It doesn't mean that there is any substance behind what he's talking about.

It's pretty easy. Go back a few years. The best economy we had in a long time came under who? Clinton.

The economy has taken a downturn under? Bush II.

We had a balanced budget under? Clinton.

We had a budget surplus under? Clinton.

We've had hugely expanded government and spending under? Bush.

All of his fears about a democrat becoming President were manifested in George W. Bush, and not any democrat that I can remember. His fears about "socialized" medicine are also unfounded, as most if not all of the candidates who are calling for universal health care are also saying you can opt out, and continue with your private coverage, but I'm willing to say that if we did have universal coverage, I'm sure jbrumm and his fellow "personal responsibility" crowd will no doubt continue to pay their own way, yeah, right. They'll jump on the ship as well.

His whole premise is bunk, for the simple fact that he keeps saying things about personal responsibility, when in fact, government (local and federal) provide many things in his life that he probably takes for granted. But he'll always fail to recognize that, mostly because he lives in this fantasy world where as long as he's got his, nobody else seems to matter.

i heard Obama is the lost twin brother of Saddam Hussein. he wasn't accepted in the family cause he was born black...
is this true?:D

Funny how the Republicans gloss over so many things...like the 4,000 dead Americans and thousands of innocent Iraqis in a war that should never have been fought, like the fact all their big talk hasn't dampened terrorism one bit or brought ObL to justice for his crimes, like the fact the moron in the White House has spent us to the brink of recession. That doesn't mention the simpleton's damage to the environment, his simplistic failing policies in education, his inability to promote American industry or protect the value of the dollar, his Texas friends are reaping historic profits while claiming supply and demand is forcing gasoline over $3, his failure to address social security woes, etc., etc., etc. But, what could be expected from C student and a Vietnam-era deserter? How can anyone take him seriously or view him as other than the buffoon he is.

So much talk about "illegal immigrants." You are the probably the one who needs to get over that and grow up. They are here because America needs them. Our immigration laws just haven't kept pace with our need for foreign labor to take low paying jobs. And, logistically, we can't keep them out. The failure of the so-called war on drugs to stop illegal substances from flowing across the borders despite billions of dollars devoted to the cause is proof of that. In all the years I've been a reporter, the cost of cocaine and marijuana on the street hasn't changed significantly because of short supply. In fact, drugs are one commodity that the price has probably dropped over time based on what inflation has done to the dollar. Our borders leak like dikes in New Orleans. Republicans haven't done anything about it but throw good money after bad.

As far as Americans failing to bounce the jerk out, well that's a function of the fact that half of the voting age public doesn't care enough to bother to register. We talk of democracy and majority rules when in fact a shade over one quarter of voting age Americans call the shots. Even when the conservatives are forcing our best young people to die in a senseless war once again, six years after Sept. 11, one out of two Americans just don't care. All the noise during election years gives the impression of wide spread interest. Ask your buddies. How many are registered? How many voted in the last election?

I don't know how liberals feel. I'm not one. But, as a member of the American middle class, I know its my people - white, black, Hispanic, American Indian and Asian - who are asked to fight the wars, take fewer benefits for more work, and work for less as we watch corrupt corporate executives take millions from company coffers when they quit. And, I suspect they are Republican. They can buy a hospital while many of their workers have to depend on a over-priced over worked medical system where people who rely solely on Medicare die younger than those with insurance. (My new corporate owners just took away the option from me to extend my insurance into retirement. It was an option for 25 years here before they bought the place. They also took away pensions and told me to start saving at age 56.)

The subtle and sometimes not-so-subtle racism in some of the posts here is very Un-American, I think. If you don't like Americans of color, why don't you leave? This country believes in equality. People of color will soon be the majority. If we don't have a black or mixed-race candidate like the very qualified, intelligent and American-principled Obama win president this go around, it won't be long. I think Clinton would be terrific too. Time for a woman, and as has been said, I've lived for more than 50 years and the best 8 years of that time were under a Clinton.

for 2008.

either it is puppet season or we better go shopping cause we don't have enough cheese to go around

first post and my guess, lifetime ban

At the risk of pissing you off and eliciting a blistering response, this here is exactly the problem Democrats face. There is so much PC speak among them that real life rhetoric is something to be banned and ignored rather than heard and dealt with. It's why they keep scratching their heads and wondering why the "polls" didn't fit the reality of the election. He's pretty much spot on for a large portion of the population of this country, maybe not the majority but maybe enough to swing an election. Put them with the much hated and maligned Christian base and you got yourself a formidable obstacle to truth and justice as you see it.

Ain't no black man running this country.

I think you are wrong.

Hardly.
What jb has proven is that he can repeat the republican talking points I hear on talk radio every single day. It doesn't mean that there is any substance behind what he's talking about.
It's pretty easy. Go back a few years. The best economy we had in a long time came under who? Clinton.
The economy has taken a downturn under? Bush II.
We had a balanced budget under? Clinton.
We had a budget surplus under? Clinton.
We've had hugely expanded government and spending under? Bush.
All of his fears about a democrat becoming President were manifested in George W. Bush, and not any democrat that I can remember. His fears about "socialized" medicine are also unfounded, as most if not all of the candidates who are calling for universal health care are also saying you can opt out, and continue with your private coverage, but I'm willing to say that if we did have universal coverage, I'm sure jbrumm and his fellow "personal responsibility" crowd will no doubt continue to pay their own way, yeah, right. They'll jump on the ship as well.
His whole premise is bunk, for the simple fact that he keeps saying things about personal responsibility, when in fact, government (local and federal) provide many things in his life that he probably takes for granted. But he'll always fail to recognize that, mostly because he lives in this fantasy world where as long as he's got his, nobody else seems to matter.

tax rate on the top tier was at 90% for over half the 20th Century. we still had rich folks doing just fine and the most potent era in the US economic History (1950s)

tax rate reduced to 70% by Ike, economy still robust, still rich folks doing just fine

Reagan takes it down to around 20%, ruling class starts to develop, middle class stagnates, poor suffer. The rich use their newfound discretionary income to influence more politicians

Clinton raises to 30%, still rich folks doing fine. Nation makes huge dent in the debt created by Reagan Bush, gets in full swing, middle class thrives, economy thrives

Bush 2 , cuts it again, rich get much richer everyone else pretty much sucks it. Nation piles on massive debt. Also govt. now suffers from record levels of corruption, lobbying, influence selling

furthermore 'help themselves" what a load of BS. Cons create more welfare programs than Dems. They just go to people who don't need them.

S&L Bailout under Reagan/Bush was over double the $ amount of the 69 year (at the time) sum total to AFDC (aid to families with dependent children). You know where the mythological welfare mom got her cadillac

Bush 2's "Healthy Forests" has turned into a multi hundred million dollar handout to the timber industry

The War itself has been a boon for those industries with no bid contracts, no audits, missing billions of dollars

lastly it was a Republican named Teddy Roosevelt who saw taxation on the top as a way to protect Democracy. Having lived through the robber baron era, Teddy saw how a ruling class would buy out the Govt and corrupt our great experiment. Sadly this genius was lost in the GOP Gestalt.

so wow, on the ropes by Brumms little tantrum of RTPs

funny, as brumm economically has more in common with folks on the welfare line than he does with the top 10% (as do, by my assessment, all of us)

funny, as brumm economically has more in common with folks on the welfare line than he does with the top 10% (as do, by my assessment, all of us)

Good little ad hom there. :p

B. Hussein Obama is an articulate and likable guy. He can certainly stir up a crowd and he has mastered the ability to relate to others. But, he does have some significant flaws. I think that the biggest flaw is that he doesn't recognize that free enterprise and industriousness are the keys to gaining equality. He is still locked up in this idea that social programs are the solution to poverty and low wages.

A big character flaw has been his acceptance of oprah’s support. He really stooped on that one. Is that how we choose our presidents now, by using oprah? I can’t see Reagan or Kennedy or FDR or other great presidents accepting the support of such an uninformed and misguided celebrity who willingly supports such trash as the "Secret" and "davinci code". I mean, come on! Not even W would stoop so low.

I also find it interesting that Obama won in Iowa where caucuses are held in the open where any show of racism can easily be exposed. But, he lost in New Hampshire where he was projected to win big. The ugliness of racism can easily be exposed in a caucus forum but it cannot be exposed in a voting booth.

:blush2:

Good little ad hom there. :p

How so? He didn't make a value judgement about it--just stating facts.

I also find it interesting that Obama won in Iowa where caucuses are held in the open where any show of racism can easily be exposed. But, he lost in New Hampshire where he was projected to win big. The ugliness of racism can easily be exposed in a caucus forum but it cannot be exposed in a voting booth.

:blush2:
Make no mistake...racism is alive and well in the midwest. Today it's mostly aimed at Hispanics, but it's there.

How so? He didn't make a value judgement about it--just stating facts.


do you know the difference between $16,000 - $1,000,000? factor of 62.5

what is the difference between $1,000,000 and $100,000,000? factor of 100

now go to a billion, or even $500,000,000.

if your net income is $1,000,000 a year you are closer to poverty than to the top 5% who are making money in the hundreds of millions.

not an ad hom, just a simple economic fact, and as I stated, most likely ALL of us fall into it, so did I ad hom myself?

reality is, the people who make enough cash to really experience the benefits of Bush's economic plan have better things to do than poast on the intrawebs

Funny how the Republicans gloss over so many things...like the 4,000 dead Americans and thousands of innocent Iraqis in a war that should never have been fought, like the fact all their big talk hasn't dampened terrorism one bit or brought ObL to justice for his crimes, like the fact the moron in the White House has spent us to the brink of recession. That doesn't mention the simpleton's damage to the environment, his simplistic failing policies in education, his inability to promote American industry or protect the value of the dollar, his Texas friends are reaping historic profits while claiming supply and demand is forcing gasoline over $3, his failure to address social security woes, etc., etc., etc. But, what could be expected from C student and a Vietnam-era deserter? How can anyone take him seriously or view him as other than the buffoon he is.

So much talk about "illegal immigrants." You are the probably the one who needs to get over that and grow up. They are here because America needs them. Our immigration laws just haven't kept pace with our need for foreign labor to take low paying jobs. And, logistically, we can't keep them out. The failure of the so-called war on drugs to stop illegal substances from flowing across the borders despite billions of dollars devoted to the cause is proof of that. In all the years I've been a reporter, the cost of cocaine and marijuana on the street hasn't changed significantly because of short supply. In fact, drugs are one commodity that the price has probably dropped over time based on what inflation has done to the dollar. Our borders leak like dikes in New Orleans. Republicans haven't done anything about it but throw good money after bad.

As far as Americans failing to bounce the jerk out, well that's a function of the fact that half of the voting age public doesn't care enough to bother to register. We talk of democracy and majority rules when in fact a shade over one quarter of voting age Americans call the shots. Even when the conservatives are forcing our best young people to die in a senseless war once again, six years after Sept. 11, one out of two Americans just don't care. All the noise during election years gives the impression of wide spread interest. Ask your buddies. How many are registered? How many voted in the last election?

I don't know how liberals feel. I'm not one. But, as a member of the American middle class, I know its my people - white, black, Hispanic, American Indian and Asian - who are asked to fight the wars, take fewer benefits for more work, and work for less as we watch corrupt corporate executives take millions from company coffers when they quit. And, I suspect they are Republican. They can buy a hospital while many of their workers have to depend on a over-priced over worked medical system where people who rely solely on Medicare die younger than those with insurance. (My new corporate owners just took away the option from me to extend my insurance into retirement. It was an option for 25 years here before they bought the place. They also took away pensions and told me to start saving at age 56.)

The subtle and sometimes not-so-subtle racism in some of the posts here is very Un-American, I think. If you don't like Americans of color, why don't you leave? This country believes in equality. People of color will soon be the majority. If we don't have a black or mixed-race candidate like the very qualified, intelligent and American-principled Obama win president this go around, it won't be long. I think Clinton would be terrific too. Time for a woman, and as has been said, I've lived for more than 50 years and the best 8 years of that time were under a Clinton.

That's it, thead over!

i heard Obama is the lost twin brother of Saddam Hussein. he wasn't accepted in the family cause he was born black...
is this true?:D

if you said this in ernest, like you really meant it and dropped the question (change 'is this true', to 'this is true') at the end you could find a job on Conservative Talk Radio
and gather a large following

Funny how the Republicans gloss over so many things...like the 4,000 dead Americans and thousands of innocent Iraqis in a war that should never have been fought, like the fact all their big talk hasn't dampened terrorism one bit or brought ObL to justice for his crimes, like the fact the moron in the White House has spent us to the brink of recession. That doesn't mention the simpleton's damage to the environment, his simplistic failing policies in education, his inability to promote American industry or protect the value of the dollar, his Texas friends are reaping historic profits while claiming supply and demand is forcing gasoline over $3, his failure to address social security woes, etc., etc., etc. But, what could be expected from C student and a Vietnam-era deserter? How can anyone take him seriously or view him as other than the buffoon he is.

So much talk about "illegal immigrants." You are the probably the one who needs to get over that and grow up. They are here because America needs them. Our immigration laws just haven't kept pace with our need for foreign labor to take low paying jobs. And, logistically, we can't keep them out. The failure of the so-called war on drugs to stop illegal substances from flowing across the borders despite billions of dollars devoted to the cause is proof of that. In all the years I've been a reporter, the cost of cocaine and marijuana on the street hasn't changed significantly because of short supply. In fact, drugs are one commodity that the price has probably dropped over time based on what inflation has done to the dollar. Our borders leak like dikes in New Orleans. Republicans haven't done anything about it but throw good money after bad.

As far as Americans failing to bounce the jerk out, well that's a function of the fact that half of the voting age public doesn't care enough to bother to register. We talk of democracy and majority rules when in fact a shade over one quarter of voting age Americans call the shots. Even when the conservatives are forcing our best young people to die in a senseless war once again, six years after Sept. 11, one out of two Americans just don't care. All the noise during election years gives the impression of wide spread interest. Ask your buddies. How many are registered? How many voted in the last election?

I don't know how liberals feel. I'm not one. But, as a member of the American middle class, I know its my people - white, black, Hispanic, American Indian and Asian - who are asked to fight the wars, take fewer benefits for more work, and work for less as we watch corrupt corporate executives take millions from company coffers when they quit. And, I suspect they are Republican. They can buy a hospital while many of their workers have to depend on a over-priced over worked medical system where people who rely solely on Medicare die younger than those with insurance. (My new corporate owners just took away the option from me to extend my insurance into retirement. It was an option for 25 years here before they bought the place. They also took away pensions and told me to start saving at age 56.)

The subtle and sometimes not-so-subtle racism in some of the posts here is very Un-American, I think. If you don't like Americans of color, why don't you leave? This country believes in equality. People of color will soon be the majority. If we don't have a black or mixed-race candidate like the very qualified, intelligent and American-principled Obama win president this go around, it won't be long. I think Clinton would be terrific too. Time for a woman, and as has been said, I've lived for more than 50 years and the best 8 years of that time were under a Clinton.

Reading your posts here I can find some empathy for some of your thoughts but I am pretty much opposed to most of your expressed conclusions. I think you have focused your blame for the turns in life pretty narrowly and most of it wrongly. You lament the situation of the "middle class" which I'm not sure how to define, and defend the illegal flood of workers into this country that helps suppress wages for those who work for them. The benefits you lost are also part of that package. When there is a glut of SUV's on the market, the prices drop and labor is no different. Corporations don't have to compete in many areas today, they have a buyers market. The changes in the benefit structure began many years ago and one of the factors was the corporate raiders and hostile takeovers. I worked for a company that had a fully funded pension fund and during one of those buyouts, that pension fund got raped, it was one of the big reasons for the takover. I am fortunate enough to be allowed to retain my insurance upon retirement but at twice the cost and for how long? I don't believe electing a Democrat will change that, they aren't working night and day on it now and they own the legislature. The role played by government hasn't been confined to one side of the aisle either. If government is your enemy, it is a generic government and includes both of our political parties.

if you said this in ernest, like you really meant it and dropped the question (change 'is this true', to 'this is true') at the end you could find a job on Conservative Talk Radio
and gather a large following

the Obama campaign needs loads of black and muslim jokes. it's the best way to disarm your opposition. what do you think?:D

... we can be a country that takes care of its own people ...
The problem is everyone on the planet, even those who hate us, we take care of. Check to see how much in foreign aid is doled out (money, food, etc) each year, and I'm not included private sector money, donations, to nations who, in some cases, are openly hostile to the US. Our open borders have greatly strained our social systems and resources too.

So to get back to your point, "our own people" is very undefined and subjective. Everyone likes to be "our people" when they need something. Case in point - my good friend and riding buddy's wife was born in Peru and rased in LA. Sge came to the US when she was 2. That was 40 years ago. She is a school teacher here in NYC. She is not an American citizen and pretty much settled on not becoming one - why? because she hates the United States. However her plan to no become a citizen has hit a snag. She is not eligable to collect her pension unless she is a citizen. Ha! Catch 22 here for her. Oh she never votes obviously because she is not a citizen, but she works for Moveon.org and hates bush. Shes likes to think she is a conscientious lib, but just ask her husband and he'll tell you she would make a good dictator :)

Oh her parets became citizens 30+ years ago. However after selling their house in LA, they moved back to Peru for the last 10 years or so. Now they're back. Know why? They get Medicare here. They get squat in Peru. Well maybe not squat, but no where near the healthcare they get here. They have health issues and they know where they can get the better healthcare. So again, our people is whom ever decides they need us at the time. After that, they do not consider themselves our people. Hey I had older relatives from Italy that did similarly. Trash the US and use it when it served them. Thankfully not all were or are like that. Many appreciate everything this contry afforded them to earn.

the Obama campaign needs loads of black and muslim jokes. it's the best way to disarm your opposition. what do you think?:D

Yep he should probably campaign in Arab head gear.

Ironic? Provocative?

Sure to endear him to the ME. :rolleyes:

http://www.lynchs.com/images/2208.jpg

The problem is everyone on the planet, even those who hate us, we take care of. Check to see how much in foreign aid is doled out (money, food, etc) each year, and I'm not included private sector money, donations, to nations who, in some cases, are openly hostile to the US. Our open borders have greatly strained our social systems and resources too.

So to get back to your point, "our own people" is very undefined and subjective. Everyone likes to be "our people" when they need something. Case in point - my good friend and riding buddy's wife was born in Peru and rased in LA. Sge came to the US when she was 2. That was 40 years ago. She is a school teacher here in NYC. She is not an American citizen and pretty much settled on not becoming one - why? because she hates the United States. However her plan to no become a citizen has hit a snag. She is not eligable to collect her pension unless she is a citizen. Ha! Catch 22 here for her. Oh she never votes obviously because she is not a citizen, but she works for Moveon.org and hates bush. Shes likes to think she is a conscientious lib, but just ask her husband and he'll tell you she would make a good dictator :)
Oh her parets became citizens 30+ years ago. However after selling their house in LA, they moved back to Peru for the last 10 years or so. Now they're back. Know why? They get Medicare here. They get squat in Peru. Well maybe not squat, but no where near the healthcare they get here. They have health issues and they know where they can get the better healthcare. So again, our people is whom ever decides they need us at the time. After that, they do not consider themselves our people. Hey I had older relatives from Italy that did similarly. Trash the US and use it when it served them. Thankfully not all were or are like that. Many appreciate everything this contry afforded them to earn.


did you say she is a teacher? it means she gave some pretty good years of her life to educate and take care of american children. a teacher deserves a great deal of respect in my book.
she has done a lot for the society. opinions schminions she deserves a lot back.
just my 0.2c.

Yep he should probably campaign in Arab head gear.

Ironic? Provocative?

Sure to endear him to the ME. :rolleyes:



c'mon... he will be bombarded w/arab this and negro that. if his supporters could make some fun of it they would lessen the diffamation.

not an ad hom, just a simple economic fact, and as I stated, most likely ALL of us fall into it, so did I ad hom myself?


Absolutely wrong.

It was a circumstantial ad hom...not all ad homs have to be abusive.

Jbrumm's arguments about tax or economics stand (or fail) on their own logic irrespective of his personal taxable income.

2+2 = 4 whether one is a billionaire or pauper.

You don't really think that raising taxes is necessary to pay for roads, fire protection, the police, and the FDA do you? 3 out of 4 which are paid thru municipal taxes btw.

Government health care for everybody is by definition Socialized medicine. Hillary wants to take 10 Billion from oil corporations? Good idea, I'm sure that won't have any unintended consequences on Wall Street.

Let me guess, you're not one of the richest types that you think should be soaked by the government. Where is it in the constitution that the top producers have to pay the way for everybody else? All created equal unless you make alot of money then you have to pay for people that would rather have a big screen TV and a new car instead of paying for their doctor's help: doesn't seem to be on of the amendments that I a familiar with.

So, if I am clever enough to bankroll a bunch of money then the government should take half of it when I die? Land of the free, home of the brave, indeed.

The rich and the poor get what they get according to what they produce. Incidently comrade, The poor don't pay the freight in this country. The rich do. The rich also create the jobs, risk the capital that creates new opportunities, and more often than not pump their dollars into the economy.

Rich people paying 15% of their income? Wow, that's a deal that I have to get. Urban legend or liberal winnie trust fund babies. Rich folks that I know pay alot higher percentage. It's real easy to point to some rich boogeyman for one's personal shortcomings, but it's another thing to pull yourself up and make a difference.

How do you know what taxes do to me? BTW, Einstein, revenue is out the roof thanks to lower taxes. Want to raise more money, than lower taxes. Tax cuts are not the problem. Of course China wants to invest in the US. There isn't a better bet out there than us.

I do agree with you about spending. While its true that we're at war, which was declared upon us, we are spending too much, Want my opinion, we've paid for our nukes lets use them, and save some money in this useless ground struggle.

Irregardless, spending is out of control. Let's cut it drastically. We can cut spending drastically and still maintain roads, fire service, police service, and even the FDA.

I'd be a prouder American if half the country wasn't caught up in some fantasy class war struggle, and instead took advantage of the incredible opportunity that is available to Americans.

Telling people that they're being held down by the man is not helpful. It's simply a way to gain electoral victory.

that a huge capitalist WallStreet won't adjust to changing economies...?
like they haven't before right? Wall Street is still operating on the principles of the 1920's
or 30's? I highly doubt the economy will so suffer as you believe...new companies and industries will also grow out of change...your opinion negates and almost insults the maleability of the citizens of this country. if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

lets do this...you don't have to take free health care when its given to you, how's that?
QYB.

Most anyone who "works" contributes something to society. I did say she wasn't entitled to her due when she retires. He union said she wasn't unless she is a citizen. She can take the money and spend it anywhere she likes, but she must first swear her allegiance to the US of A :)

Most anyone who "works" contributes something to society. I did say she wasn't entitled to her due when she retires. He union said she wasn't unless she is a citizen. She can take the money and spend it anywhere she likes, but she must first swear her allegiance to the US of A :)

my personal opinion... i find teachers to be in a special place.

c'mon... he will be bombarded w/arab this and negro that. if his supporters could make some fun of it they would lessen the diffamation.

what's "diffamation" ?

:confused:

Most anyone who "works" contributes something to society.

Britney?:p

B. Hussein Obama is an articulate and likable guy. He can certainly stir up a crowd and he has mastered the ability to relate to others. But, he does have some significant flaws. I think that the biggest flaw is that he doesn't recognize that free enterprise and industriousness are the keys to gaining equality. He is still locked up in this idea that social programs are the solution to poverty and low wages.

A big character flaw has been his acceptance of oprah’s support. He really stooped on that one. Is that how we choose our presidents now, by using oprah? I can’t see Reagan or Kennedy or FDR or other great presidents accepting the support of such an uninformed and misguided celebrity who willingly supports such trash as the "Secret" and "davinci code". I mean, come on! Not even W would stoop so low.

I also find it interesting that Obama won in Iowa where caucuses are held in the open where any show of racism can easily be exposed. But, he lost in New Hampshire where he was projected to win big. The ugliness of racism can easily be exposed in a caucus forum but it cannot be exposed in a voting booth.

:blush2:

you are really going to bash him because Oprah supports the "DaVinci Code" Superfluous indeed....

FWIW, I thought it was one of the best books I've ever read, and would be far more inclined to believe that, than some piece of trash like "teh bible or bubble, or bubble gum" or whatever the RR is calling it nowadays.....:rolleyes:

A goodly portion of my good friends are teachers and professors. They all seem to think of themselves in that same place too :)

At the risk of pissing you off and eliciting a blistering response, this here is exactly the problem Democrats face. There is so much PC speak among them that real life rhetoric is something to be banned and ignored rather than heard and dealt with. It's why they keep scratching their heads and wondering why the "polls" didn't fit the reality of the election. He's pretty much spot on for a large portion of the population of this country, maybe not the majority but maybe enough to swing an election. Put them with the much hated and maligned Christian base and you got yourself a formidable obstacle to truth and justice as you see it.

yes, we should listen to and cater to the bigoted racist scumbags among us, instead of calling them for what they are-bigoted racist scumbags.

B. Hussein Obama is an articulate and likable guy. He can certainly stir up a crowd and he has mastered the ability to relate to others. But, he does have some significant flaws. I think that the biggest flaw is that he doesn't recognize that free enterprise and industriousness are the keys to gaining equality. He is still locked up in this idea that social programs are the solution to poverty and low wages.

A big character flaw has been his acceptance of oprah’s support. He really stooped on that one. Is that how we choose our presidents now, by using oprah? I can’t see Reagan or Kennedy or FDR or other great presidents accepting the support of such an uninformed and misguided celebrity who willingly supports such trash as the "Secret" and "davinci code". I mean, come on! Not even W would stoop so low.

I also find it interesting that Obama won in Iowa where caucuses are held in the open where any show of racism can easily be exposed. But, he lost in New Hampshire where he was projected to win big. The ugliness of racism can easily be exposed in a caucus forum but it cannot be exposed in a voting booth.

:blush2:

Again, you continue to invoke his middle name, Hussein. For what purpose? Just what are you trying to accomplish by continually referring to the man in this manner?

what's "diffamation" ?

:confused:

slander [ˈslaːndə] noun
(the act of making) an untrue spoken, not written, statement about a person with the intention of damaging that person's reputation

yes, we should listen to and cater to the bigoted racist scumbags among us, instead of calling them for what they are-bigoted racist scumbags.

his first post said simply, and I'm paraphrasing from memory

"Because America ain't gonna elect no N------ to the white house"

in another post also edited he said

I hate N____z, add derogatory term for Viet Namese, derogatory term for Mexican, derogatory term for Chinese.......

which he later edited to "I hate them all equally"

but yeah in this case I'm glad I'm standing on the sensitive, politically correct side

and that would leave you on the side of these racist, cracker-azzed bigots if we applied your neocon black and white rule. You are either with us oir agin us right?

Again, you continue to invoke his middle name, Hussein. For what purpose? Just what are you trying to accomplish by continually referring to the man in this manner?

You are taking the bait...

...but would you like to stop people referring to the 'Hussein' part of his name?

I.m not taking any bait. just interested in what he believes he's accomplishing by continually using his middle name.

I mean, I know why the wingnuts do it. Hussein, Saddam, I get it. he;'s not just a n^&%er, he's a terrorist too. He's a Muslim. He hates America.

seems awful juvenile to me. But if he thinks it's scoring him points in the debate, by all means continue doing so. Doesn't hurt me any, just demonstrates how childish and ignorant his views are.

I.m not taking any bait. just interested in what he believes he's accomplishing by continually using his middle name.

I mean, I know why the wingnuts do it. Hussein, Saddam, I get it. he;'s not just a n^&%er, he's a terrorist too. He's a Muslim. He hates America.

seems awful juvenile to me. But if he thinks it's scoring him points in the debate, by all means continue doing so. Doesn't hurt me any, just demonstrates how childish and ignorant his views are.

that in 08 the Cons would play the racist card

they were already tossing out the trial balloons weeks after the election

Absolutely wrong.

It was a circumstantial ad hom...not all ad homs have to be abusive.

Jbrumm's arguments about tax or economics stand (or fail) on their own logic irrespective of his personal taxable income.

2+2 = 4 whether one is a billionaire or pauper.

and all this does is show you r lack of understanding of our tax breaks in the last 6 years

for folks not in the upper few percentiles we may have saved a bit of money. sadly we lost more in services than the savings provided. It is an actual neg sum game. Whether it is more extra fees for once free extra curricular school activities, increased rates at National Parks, Collapsing infrastructure, and increased national debt which we'll be paying until we are dead.

for the folks in the top 5% it has been a windfall. They have little use for the infrastructure items we will all feel the pinch over. They are in a HUGE positive sum game. Look at W's last big challenge, the DEATH TAX (actually the inheritance tax)

Oohh it was your families money, why be taxed twice? Do you understand the level it is at already? You pay no tax on an amount somewhere between $3 and 6 million. That just about covers everyone in this country. His death tax will only effect about 400 people in this countr and their benefit upon it will be in the hundreds of millions at the expense of everything else.

so here's the point. There are heaps of people in upper middle class or middle class who actually think the Con tax agenda is benefitting them. It is not, they are as mislead as the Religious folks who think the Cons are seeking their moral agenda.
If they broke out a calculator they would find out it is not, or if it is it is so marginal it is worthless. Go seek that last chart showing the economic improvement in this country. See how all but the top 20% are treading water or sinking, then see how the level of increase is exponential in that top 20%. If you apply the value of the top 10 or top 5 and subtract it from the whole 20% grouping you'd find that those from 80-90% had just so-so growth while those from 90-95% did really well and the last 5% made an absolute killing.

now gee with 6 years of absurd profit they should be making lots of jobs right? Isn't that how trickle down is supposed to work? Well it isn't. It didn't under Reagan and it isn't now. I can't believe people got suckered into this lemon twice in one lifetime.

so there is no ad hom, my guess is J isn't making 10 million a year, if he is great. But since I doubt he is, the reality is we ALL have more economically in common with the bottom 5% than we do with the top 5%. Simple math

his first post said simply, and I'm paraphrasing from memory

"Because America ain't gonna elect no N------ to the white house"

in another post also edited he said

I hate N____z, add derogatory term for Viet Namese, derogatory term for Mexican, derogatory term for Chinese.......

which he later edited to "I hate them all equally"

but yeah in this case I'm glad I'm standing on the sensitive, politically correct side

and that would leave you on the side of these racist, cracker-azzed bigots if we applied your neocon black and white rule. You are either with us oir agin us right?

No, I didn't see it in it's original form but that really doesn't change what I said. To refuse to hear things like this and acknowledge that they exist leaves you vulnerable to a blindside. Even in the original form, lots and lots of people use that terminology, even some that aren't militant racists. Many of them do vote. while you might not wish to allign yourself with those folks, you want to be careful who you offend enough to drive them over there. In all honesty, I don't believe you know what "side" I'm on. I wasn't choosing sides in this.

slander [ˈslaːndə] noun
(the act of making) an untrue spoken, not written, statement about a person with the intention of damaging that person's reputation

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/defamation

sorry, didn't mean to be the spelling police, just curious what you were trying to say..

I take a certain possession over this forum, that those of us of all sides take a certain bit of ownership. that this is 'our' house

I don't tolerate that level of bigotry in my house, I dunno about you

Snake, the other part. I'm using the same logic that you cons have used for 6 years. With Us or Against US.

we all railed against an obvious troll who was clearly using bigotry to incite

you are either with us or agin us

you chose to defend his right

therefore by NeoCon Logic: you are agin us. You have sided with the bigots.

doesn't leave a nice taste in your mouth does it?

welcome to our world. You know, because we called W a putz you called us unpatriotic

taste of ones own medicine

No, I didn't see it in it's original form but that really doesn't change what I said. To refuse to hear things like this and acknowledge that they exist leaves you vulnerable to a blindside. Even in the original form, lots and lots of people use that terminology, even some that aren't militant racists. Many of them do vote. while you might not wish to allign yourself with those folks, you want to be careful who you offend enough to drive them over there. In all honesty, I don't believe you know what "side" I'm on. I wasn't choosing sides in this.

oh, we know it exists. It doesn't make their viewpoint any more valid, or demand that reasonable people should have to tolerate that view.

If people want to go through life being bigoted racists, then fine, let them. Just don't expect me or anyone else to commend them for it, or to accept that view as normal.

Turn the equation around, and would you expect these very same people to accept gays and homosexuality as normal? Do you think they ever would? Do you think it wrong for them to not even consider the views of those homosexuals?

They wouldn't. So why should we accept their blatant racism, find some worth to that view?

Just so folks know, liberal mediator and ridin at 4:20 have been banned, because it was the same person. No sock puppets! If that person comes back, they best not call attention to themselves again for a while.

Why do newbies think this stuff will work?

As for the OP, different IP. And ralphie has gotten you all worked up very, very easily by saying very, very little.

EDIT. After seeing this thread...

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=1358490

...liberal mediator and ridin at 4:20 will NEVER be welcome back at rbr at any time. Banned on first sight. I am making sure all the other moderators know about this one.
Are you for real?:eek:

Are you for real?:eek:

Yes. I moderate this board, and others on RBR.

Do you have some problem understanding what what's going on here? Do you think that someone who posts things like "I hate them all equally---niggrs, spics, gooks and sand nigrs." will be welcome here?

Have you read the sticky post on the top of the PO forum? I suggest you read that if you plan on sticking around.

and all this does is show you r lack of understanding of our tax breaks in the last 6 years
....for the folks in the top 5% it has been a windfall.
you are familar w/ pareto right? while i agree w/ your view on tax breaks, the flip side of that argument is pretty compelling. The richest 20% provide overwhelimingly the bulk of the nation's wealth. Why should they not recieve a cut in economically good times? Poor people are effecitively in their eyes moochers...:idea:

I take a certain possession over this forum, that those of us of all sides take a certain bit of ownership. that this is 'our' house

I don't tolerate that level of bigotry in my house, I dunno about you

Snake, the other part. I'm using the same logic that you cons have used for 6 years. With Us or Against US.

we all railed against an obvious troll who was clearly using bigotry to incite

you are either with us or agin us

you chose to defend his right

therefore by NeoCon Logic: you are agin us. You have sided with the bigots.

doesn't leave a nice taste in your mouth does it?

welcome to our world. You know, because we called W a putz you called us unpatriotic

taste of ones own medicine

I think you misunderestimate what I mean. You can't counter what you don't see and banning this kind of message makes it impossible to counter it. Blindness can give a false sense of security in a room full of snakes. I would rather have it posted and discussed than have it ignored and it's influence unknown. The worst examples of bigotry I have ever seen were as a guest in someone else's house. Calling W a putz doesn't make you unpatriotic and I have never said anything even close to that. There are statements made about this country, it's policies and how those charged with carrying out that policy do so that are not all that supportive and I take exception to some. Not unlike how you feel about bigotry but I face it and fight rather than hide or ignore.

oh, we know it exists. It doesn't make their viewpoint any more valid, or demand that reasonable people should have to tolerate that view.

If people want to go through life being bigoted racists, then fine, let them. Just don't expect me or anyone else to commend them for it, or to accept that view as normal.

They wouldn't. So why should we accept their blatant racism, find some worth to that view?


We all accept that there are racists out there, but let me buckle down my tin foil hat for a second. The polling numbers for the democrats in NH were way off. Conspiracy theorists might say that Hillary stole the election, I don't believe that. Maybe the pollsters didn't take a certain demographic into account, maybe. Or could it be that a portion of the likely democratic voters said that they support Obama when interviewed but decided that they didn't want a black man as President when they got in the booth? I hope that this isn't true, but it seems odd that the republican pre-election polls came out pretty accurate while the dems were way off.
\

I think it was Zogby who said he had some last minute polling info that showed voters breaking a lot toward Hillary at the last minute, but his sampling was too small, and it was coming too late, for him to go public with it.

So while i'll admit that the possibility for the vote to be affected by racist attitudes among the NH populace(I do live here after all, and I see how quite a few of a certain type think), I don't think that was the whole reason to it.

I think it was Zogby who said he had some last minute polling info that showed voters breaking a lot toward Hillary at the last minute, but his sampling was too small, and it was coming too late, for him to go public with it.

So while i'll admit that the possibility for the vote to be affected by racist attitudes among the NH populace(I do live here after all, and I see how quite a few of a certain type think), I don't think that was the whole reason to it.

No disrespect intended but how do you explain it? What happened so late in the game?

No disrespect intended but how do you explain it? What happened so late in the game?

Off the top of my head, and without any real close analysis having been done....

First, many polls had the number for Obama dead on. The classic racial effect is to get votes in lower numbers than the polls (closet racists).

Second, Obama saw a HUGE surge in support from Iowa to NH voting. So he got a big bump, and the polls showed him where he ended up. Clinton started with a much bigger lead.

Third, if you look at the polls, they differ greatly in terms of how they model "soft support". They basically ask for preference levels for the "undecided". Most models assumed a breakdown in NH near where the "undecideds" in Iowa broke.

Things broke different. Mostly women, who Obama won in Iowa, broke more for Clinton.

The media coverage of the "breakdown" plays a major role there, I think.

Lots of minor issues, strategic voting, crossover voting by Rs who wanted to stop Obama, etc.

That's my best, brief, underinformed input.

Magnolia,

I only made it half way through your post before I decided that made no sense. If somebody is driving on a road, they are probably paying for that road with the taxes on gasoline, unless they are driving a solar or alternative fuel powered car. I believe half the price of gasoline is taxes that are used to build and maintain roads.

Again, requesting police and fire help is also paid for by taxes. There are some things that government is better suited to deal with (e.g., police, fire, EMS, military) and that should be paid for as a whole. Why should health care? If health care, why not legal representation? Oh yeah, then again, legal representation in criminal matters is paid for via the public defender, if somebody is poor. However, why shouldn't a poor person charged with murder get the same representation as OJ? How about the poor person being kicked out of his rental unit unfairly that has no idea how to represent himself? Maybe all attorneys should be subsidized by the taxpayer's dollars.

If somebody works for an employer that provides partial, or even full, health care coverage, don't blame them. The employer is doing that to attract good employees. If you aren't a good employee (i.e., no skills, etc.), don't expect your employer to pick up the tab for health care. If you could get a job with a company that offers health benefits, then why haven't you.

How about companies that offer 401(k)'s, and other retirement plans. Maybe we should make that government only sponsored so that everybody can have a retirement plan. How about employers that offer disability insurance to their employees for free or a reduced cost. Might as well make that government regulated too. Oh yeah, we already have something like that called social security/SSI disability. Now, are you counting on social security to retire? Why not, the government has done such a bang up job with it that they don't even know if it will be around after 2040, which is about when I am supposed to be of retirement age.

Next, we might as well target salaries. If an employer is offering somebody a higher salary than somebody else, that shouldn't be allowed either. However, wouldn't that be like communism?

Do you guys really think that the government could run a health care system? Look at all the problems it has just with Medicare and Medicaid. It cannot even keep up with the level of fraud out there.

The government has done such a great job running this country that we might as well just pay more in taxes and allow them to control everything. Then, the national debt might not be $9 trillion, but $90 trillion. My Lord, can you even imagine how much $9 trillion is? When are we ever going to pay that back?

Personally, I think the less that government has to do with things, the better off we will be. People need to start understanding that they need to work to get things, including food, shelter, retirement, health care, a shiny car, etc.

Let's just try phasing out welfare programs and see if that gets people motivated. That might even help to pay off the deficit. Less money going out, and more money coming in from taxes. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for assistance for those down on their luck, but can people really be down on their luck for decades, or generations?

No disrespect intended but how do you explain it? What happened so late in the game?

her door to door canvassing, especially in the more metro areas, was much stronger than the other candidates.

and there's some anecdotal evidence that the old white men in the media extrem misogyny towards her pi$$ed a lot of women off.

our elected representatives seem to like their government run health care just fine.

And Medicare works a lot better than the private provider prescription drug program this administration created.

our elected representatives seem to like their government run health care just fine.

And Medicare works a lot better than the private provider prescription drug program this administration created.

I bet that was what did it, canvas and massages.

Yep. Game. Set. match.

Again, requesting police and fire help is also paid for by taxes. There are some things that government is better suited to deal with (e.g., police, fire, EMS, military) and that should be paid for as a whole. Why should health care? If health care, why not legal representation? Oh yeah, then again, legal representation in criminal matters is paid for via the public defender, if somebody is poor. However, why shouldn't a poor person charged with murder get the same representation as OJ? How about the poor person being kicked out of his rental unit unfairly that has no idea how to represent himself? Maybe all attorneys should be subsidized by the taxpayer's dollars.

If somebody works for an employer that provides partial, or even full, health care coverage, don't blame them. The employer is doing that to attract good employees. If you aren't a good employee (i.e., no skills, etc.), don't expect your employer to pick up the tab for health care. If you could get a job with a company that offers health benefits, then why haven't you.

.....

Do you guys really think that the government could run a health care system? Look at all the problems it has just with Medicare and Medicaid. It cannot even keep up with the level of fraud out there.
Why not healthcare? Some ask why, I ask why not.

Other countries run health care programs. I think we should give it a shot. no pun intended.

"Just because everybody is doing it doesn't mean that we should do it." Russia and a lot of other countries were communist, but that doesn't mean we should do it.

From what I have heard about it in Italy and Canada, the wait times are pretty long and the care isn't that great. If you want better care, you have to pay out of your pocket for it. So, how is that going to be any different? Taxes will have to be raised to put this program in place, which will leave the middle class even poorer. The poor barely pay taxes, so they will be getting free health care. As far as I am concerned, it is just another step towards socialism, which I know doesn't work. The government cannot take care of everybody, especially when everybody doesn't want to do their share by working and contributing to society.

Honestly, I think this entire health care issue could be solved if most people got their priorities straight, but who really knows.

Wow, and to think I was called a racist earlier in the week for my post on illegal immigration. This guy has got to take the cake.

strange lot the republicans... Here we have a born again christian that won't move on healthcare, and whose unashamed role is to cut taxes to the rich....

wait, isn't christianity s'posed to be about caring for the weak and the poor. What was it about a donkey having a better chance of passing thru the eye of a needle than a rich man getting into heaven??

so much for that. Also the argument about out-of-control spending is laughable. This for a government that spending hundreds of billions a month in some BS war abroad. That money would far be better used helping out Americans. Just my crazy opinion.

Also lets stop the BS drama about the US turning commie. If you are sick and not wealthy, you are not turned away and treated like trash - someone looks after you. That's the only difference. Many OECD countries also have a private system running alongside if that is what you want, to act like an elite little american who is too important to be in a hospital bed alongside the plebs.

There are people who were 'productive members' of society that got sick thru no fault of their own. They lost everything they had b/c of the lack of a proper Public Benefit Scheme to off set the cost of expensive drugs. Lost the home, their jobs and now they're sick, broke and discarded. Some of them had so called 'health insurance'. By the time you sort it out w/ the lawyers the tumour has kinda spread. Its not always about money - wish you could get that.

"strange lot the republicans... Here we have a born again christian that won't move on healthcare, and whose unashamed role is to cut taxes to the rich...."

Was that aimed at me? If so, I'm Catholic, not born again, and I don't necessarily advocate cutting taxes for the rich, but please note that the rich pay more than their share in taxes. As people make more money, they pay a higher rate of income tax. The opposite can be said of sales tax. Essentially, our income tax system is progressive and our sales tax is regressive.

Now, if you are poor and cannot afford health care, there is a system in place called Medicaid. Last I checked, you had to have less than $2,500 in assets, and if you have a spouse living with you, the spouse can retain the house. There is a ton of Medicaid planning schemes out there that can help people save their assets and still qualify them for Medicaid, but I find that most people are too hesitant to talk to an attorney about this because they don't want to pay the fee. For instance, when I met my father in-law 5 years ago, he wanted to do some Medicaid planning for his mother, but he didn't want to spend the $8,000 for the attorney. Mind you, we are talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars here in his mother's estate. If he had talked to the attorney 5 years ago, every asset she has could have been gifted to him and they would have qualified for Medicaid the instant she needed nursing home care. As it is right now, she is suffering from Alzheimers and she can hardly take care of herself. My grandmother went through the same issue, but she paid for her own nursing home care until she died. Mind you, she was an Italian immigrant that could barely speak English. Kind of amazing how an Italian immigrant could come to this country in the 50's with absolutely nothing, and 50 years later have her house paid off and a good amount of money in the bank after her husband died in the late 60's. It has to make you wonder.

When I was growing up, my parents didn't have much either. There were five kids and we lived in a 3 bedroom house. I shared a room with one of my brothers, and my other brother and 2 sisters shared a room until I was 14 and we could afford to move into a larger house. My dad worked two jobs so that my mom could stay home and raise us. On top of that, he spent a ton of time with us. We bought beef by the entire cow and split it with my aunt and uncle because it was cheaper.

Okay, back to the health care issue. There is also something called Long Term Care insurance, which will take care of nursing home stays, and then there is health insurance. A long term care policy can be bought at a young age for relatively cheap (i.e., several thousands of dollars), but most people don't want to buy such a policy because they can think of better things to do with their money. Kind of like my brother who has made $100K for 14 years now and has saved barely anything for retirement. How should people like that be treated?

Again, it all comes down to the grasshopper and the ant. I might have even mentioned this already, but I attended a CPA seminar this past week and most of the people there were complaining about how people spend their money as soon as they get it. I can give you a million examples. The first that pops to my head is a client that owed $30,000 to the IRS and state because she was 1099'ed as an independent contractor and she hadn't saved a dime. Before I even started on her tax return, I told her that she was going to owe 10's of thousands of dollars, but it didn't seem to worry her. When I called her to ask her a question about the return, she was on vacation in Cancun. When she got back, we worked out a payment plan with the IRS and the state. The next year, it was the same thing, but she was on vacation in a different area of Mexico and the IRS wouldn't accept a payment plan because she had not kept up on her previous one.

Here is a better example. I did the tax return for a single mother of 3 children from 3 different fathers, none of which could be found and none of which were paying her child support. She was on section 8 housing and food stamps. She was the receptionist at the dentist's office. She made about $24,000 and I ended up getting her an $8,000 refund on her federal tax return because of the earned income credit. We sat down to go over her tax return and I asked her what she was going to do with the money. Her response was, "Honey, this money is going to pay off credit cards that I owe money on, but if I ever do get any money I'm going to buy a big screen TV." Nothing like I am going to invest it, or I'm going to put a down payment on a house or townhouse, but she is going to buy a big screen TV. Oh yeah, she also told me that she had just quit her job that day because she and the dentist just didn't see eye to eye, and she wanted to know if I was hiring because she didn't have anything lined up yet. Honestly, do you really want me to feel sorry for these people. Actually, I did feel sorry for her because I did some legal work for her pro bono pertaining to shop lifting charges on her minor son. The calls for free advice went on for another year after that.

Yes, I feel sorry for the poor factory worker that is suffering because the plant was shut down. However, in my line of work I hardly ever see people suffering because of a plant closing or an employer doing massive layoffs. Most people are in a bad position because they just plain made bad decisions and wanted too much too soon.

Another example. A real estate client of mine called me up a couple of weeks ago because he is broke and is thinking about declaring bankruptcy. Mind you, he purchased his house for around $300K about 5 years, sold his condo about 3 years ago for an $80K gain, and made around $150K a year during the real estate boom. Oh yeah, he drives a BMW 540. Now, he hasn't sold a house in 10 months, and things are tight because his monthly cash outflow is $6,000 to $8,000 a month. On top of that, he thought that he could eliminate all his debt by declaring bankruptcy, and was astounded when I told him that he would have to give up his cars if they were collateral on loans if he wanted that debt extinguished, and that under the new bankruptcy laws he might not even qualify for a Chapter 7, but might have to do a Chapter 13 instead.

Now, out of the 100 clients that I have, 15% of which are pretty good about taking care of their affairs, there is actually one that I feel sorry for. He is suffering from Parkinsons and he was approved for SSI back in 2003. Then again, he did just recently make $500K on some real estate transactions, but I still do feel sorry for him. It seems like he has alienated most of his family too. Now, I am compeletely fine with this guy obtaining benefits.

What we have today is a government that looks out for everybody out there. They do it so much, that most people think they don't have to worry about themselves. Look at the whole mortgage crisis we are going through. Both homeowners and mortgage companies want the government to bail them out. However, who gets screwed on that one. ME. My wife and I bought a townhouse that we could easily afford because we didn't want to strap ourselves with too much of a house payment. Now, if the government bails everybody out, I get stuck with that bill as a taxpayer and I get no direct benefit from it.

My wife and I fund our retirement accounts every year because we do not want to rely on social security. We could buy a shiny new car almost every year with that money, but we drive a 1998 Ford Taurus with 176,000 miles and a 2002 Hyundai Sonata with 110,000 miles. Do you think most Americans fund their retirement each year? From what I have read, 54% of Americans are not saving for retirement. Do you think 54% of Americans are without a TV? Do you think 54% of Americans do not pay for cable, which at $50 a month would be $600 a year? Do you think that 54% of Americans do not have cell phones, which at $50 a month would be another $600 a year. Do you think 54% of Americans drive something like a Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, Ford Focus, or any other entry level car out there?

Honestly, I think Americans are just getting soft. 150 years ago, if you made a mistake and didn't take care of yourself, there probably wasn't anybody there to bail you out. So, you had to survive.

Here's another example. I got a husband and wife about $150K in their pocket on a personal injury settlement. They went out and bought a BMW X5 and a Nissan 350Z when they still owed money on their condo mortgage.

Now, I'm not saying that people shouldn't spend anything on fun things, but that is only if they take care of what they need to take care of (e.g., health insurance, retirement planning).

Listening to my parents' Italian generation talk about Americans sheds some light on the matter too. How many Americans feel like it is their right to go on vacation? Kind of like the lady that owed $60,000 to the IRS/state. She was taking multiple vacations each year. If I owed that much money to anybody, other than a real estate mortgage, I wouldn't be spending money on anything except food and shelter.

My problem is weeding out all the screw ups from the people that genuinely need the help because they are dealing with a hard time that wasn't directly caused by them.

Was that aimed at me? If so, I'm Catholic, not born again, and I don't necessarily advocate cutting taxes for the rich, but please note that the rich pay more than their share in taxes....
Honestly, I think Americans are just getting soft. 150 years ago, if you made a mistake and didn't take care of yourself, there probably wasn't anybody there to bail you out. So, you had to survive.

No sorry for being vague. I would not presume that about you. Talkin' about the guy thats s'posed to be calling the shots in the oval office.

Now, sincerely, thanks for that essay. It was an interesting read. I don't disagree with the fact that the rich provide the bulk of the revenue, but that was not my point.

I argue that there are more important things than money that should be taken care of. A person's health in the world's leading economy that can afford it should be one of those things. Likewise you bring up superannuation. That is also easy to legislate for. Compulsory set-aside of 9% pa should do nicely for everyone - but that IMO is far more contentious.

Finally, the thing that irks me, is that your focus seems to derail onto the topic of monied people wasting money. That's not the point. People flagrantly spend their money all accross the OECD, what has that to do with healthcare. Again it comes down to a moral argument - "I make decent money, I plan for the future, and thus I am better than you, and who cares what is to come of ye."

Its funny u mention immigrants. What if a group of people who are exploited from the get go, get sick, and are never really given a chance.. You mention your clients, yet we are already talking about a privileged few who know about legal recourse and can pay the fee. Of course i have no sympathy for those who spend outside their means, funnily enough that practice is also rife in the legal industry. But i digress. We have a public fire service, why don't we let the f'king place burn down and then criticise the occupants should they not have home and content insurance? Because these are lives we are talking about ! What about the financially disadvantaged thru no fault of their own?? Students? $2500 qualification is such a stupid test for low income...I'd also shudder to think of the services provided. Of course students have to prove their independence to get gov't loans, and usually work as much as they can... The cost of drugs and rehab not otherwise covered can send them over the edge financially. Again, some people are covered but dodgey insurance co always wanna weasel out of the contract as soon as a large pay-out is claimed - but not before, when they are raking in the monthly payments for the cover! A$$holes ! :mad2:

These are poeple we are talking about. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free!" or perhaps simply breathe should they unfortunatey get disgnosed with an expensive repiratory illness. Most of all, when you are sick, you should not have to worry about how much it will cost you, or if your Ins Co will do a runner on you. Also drugs are stupidly expensive in the US vs a Public Benefit Scheme in most other countries where meds cost a few bucks once you hit a cap. Ie, after your first $300-400 expenditure on meds, the rest comes cheap. Its pretty fair. Right now, if you are an immigrant (or worse not on the books) and you get sick, you're pretty much boned. It shouldn't be that much of a lottery. I thought we're s'posed to look after our own. Why else do people rush to arms when attacked? It wasn't them who died? perhaps b/c they feel that it could have been them, or a loved one. That's the difference... Rich people sit in complacent smugness and decide that being sick without top notch care can't ever happen to them, and thus simply don't give a toss, and even oppose national healthcare. Wow great society. And we wonder why people are rude, uncaring and self-interested in other facets of everyday life.

That is why i have a beef with certain elements of Republican or other right wing parties. It is NOT the politics of equality and liberty. It is the politics of superiority.

I've got to get some work done this morning, so I'll keep this short.

What it is about the rich isn't the politics of superiority, but the politics of working hard for your money. I'm not saying that I'm rich, but I was up until 2:00 in the morning working last night on a Sunday so that I can make sure that my family is taken care of. Why should I have to worry about all the others that only want to work 9 to 5 and/or waste their money and then want to cry that they are poor. If a person makes a $1,000,000 a year and manages to spend it all with nothng to show for it, that person could still qualify for Medicaid and welfare the very next day.

My problem is that people's stupidity and laziness become my financial problem through these welfare systems. I don't feel as though I am any more superior than anybody. Heck, most of those people driving those Mercedes, BMW, Lexus probably feel a lot more superior to me when they pull up to my beaten up 10 year old Taurus at the red light.

I've got to get some work done this morning, so I'll keep this short.

What it is about the rich isn't the politics of superiority, but the politics of working hard for your money. I'm not saying that I'm rich, but I was up until 2:00 in the morning working last night on a Sunday so that I can make sure that my family is taken care of. Why should I have to worry about all the others that only want to work 9 to 5 and/or waste their money and then want to cry that they are poor. If a person makes a $1,000,000 a year and manages to spend it all with nothng to show for it, that person could still qualify for Medicaid and welfare the very next day.

My problem is that people's stupidity and laziness become my financial problem through these welfare systems. I don't feel as though I am any more superior than anybody. Heck, most of those people driving those Mercedes, BMW, Lexus probably feel a lot more superior to me when they pull up to my beaten up 10 year old Taurus at the red light.

didn't work for crap. they inherited their wealth. they got their positions at their company through Daddy and many don't work 9-5. If you made 1 million a year you'd have a hard time getting medicaid or welfare. Have you ever had to file for unemployment?

so you are working til 2 AM and driving a beat up red taurus and are defending the league of silver spooners and nepotists. Yeah they pay higher taxes. Nowhere near what they used to and it never stopped them from being rich in the past.

spend a weekend in the Hamptons and learn about working hard for their money.

see the guy who runs his company into 225 million plus into debt and gets a $!60 million dollar golden parachute.......

watch hoiw their good ole boy networking of sitting on each others boards has driven US Executive pay to absurd and undeserved levels

so you are working til 2 AM and driving a beat up red taurus and are defending the league of silver spooners and nepotists.

Now, instead of making assumptions about me, we are making assumptions about my clients. Last night, I met with an auto body painter that I know from high school. On Friday I did the bookkeeping for a hair salon client whose husband is a police officer and who has been a friend of mine since high school. On Saturday I worked on a divorce for a hair stylist that has been a friend of mine from high school and they barely own a thing.

I only wish my clients were a "league of silver spooners and nepotists" because I might be able to get away with charging more. In actuality, most of my clients are the little guys that cannot afford the large firms with their marble/granite foyers and partners charging $350+ an hour. All of my clients are working class people. Granted, some are white collar and others are blue collar, but they are all working for a living. Some make pretty decent money, others struggle to make money. However, of the ones making decent money, they are not prioritizing correctly, as far as I am concerned. Then again, maybe partying and vacationing is higher on their priority list than health care, retirement, and financial security. It just seems that most Americans live for today and want to worry about tomorrow if and when it gets here. Problem is when tomorrow does get here and they find themselves as the grasshopper.

By the way, my Taurus is tan, not red. It is much easier to keep clean and it doesn't draw as much attention to it.

Now, instead of making assumptions about me, we are making assumptions about my clients. Last night, I met with an auto body painter that I know from high school. On Friday I did the bookkeeping for a hair salon client whose husband is a police officer and who has been a friend of mine since high school. On Saturday I worked on a divorce for a hair stylist that has been a friend of mine from high school and they barely own a thing.

I only wish my clients were a "league of silver spooners and nepotists" because I might be able to get away with charging more. In actuality, most of my clients are the little guys that cannot afford the large firms with their marble/granite foyers and partners charging $350+ an hour. All of my clients are working class people. Granted, some are white collar and others are blue collar, but they are all working for a living. Some make pretty decent money, others struggle to make money. However, of the ones making decent money, they are not prioritizing correctly, as far as I am concerned. Then again, maybe partying and vacationing is higher on their priority list than health care, retirement, and financial security. It just seems that most Americans live for today and want to worry about tomorrow if and when it gets here. Problem is when tomorrow does get here and they find themselves as the grasshopper.

By the way, my Taurus is tan, not red. It is much easier to keep clean and it doesn't draw as much attention to it.

in this debate you are defending (in this debate) a class of people you have nothing in common with. (not what you do daily). I'm like you, frugal, not overextending. my priuorities are very similar. But what I'm saying is, you, me, most of your cleints, we have NOTHING in common with the people benefitting from these recent tax cuts. With all this added income there has been no huge leap in job creation, unemployment in fact is up. So what did these folks do with 6 years of windfall then?

again look at the tax history of the US. What the top 5 % pays now is a fraction of what they used to. We have history dating back to reagan that trickle down has not occured and the only trend we see with their additional income is further corruption of our political system to benefit themselves.

So daily I doubt you work with the silver spooners, if so you wouldn't be driving a Taurus. But you are a had working American busting his balls to take care of his own. 40 years ago you wouldn't have had to work until 2 AM to get hat done. That is the result of the class war we have all been living through.

By the way, I do prepare some tax returns and the tax cuts have helped a lot of small business owners. The section 179 tax break that was just increased to $100,000 4 or 5 years ago allows businesses to expense up to $100,000 in assets acquired within a year if they have a sufficient amount of net income. Believe me, this break has helped a lot of my start up clients. Ultimately, they will pay for it later because they will not have any asset basis to write off, but it helps them with cash flow when they initially get started. Before the increase to $100,000, the limit had been $25,000. Now, it was just increased to $125,000.

The AMT patch that was just put in place by Congress is another one that a lot of hard working Americans will benefit from. I know I did, because it saved us $1,600 in additional taxes because it raised the AMT exemption amount.

What a lot of people don't understand is that the reduced tax rates apply to lower income people too. For instance, the inital income tax rate is 10%, and if you are in that bracket, the capital gain rate is 5%, not that many people in that income tax bracket will have capital gains.

Have you ever checked out the Earned Inome Credit? The Child Tax Credit? The low