I need some help drafting. I typically ride by myself, but go for the occasional ride with my husband and the guys - all better than myself. I can hang pretty good for a while, but then tend to get dropped, I think mostly because I don't draft well and don't get the rest the guys are getting. My problem is I get nauseous when I'm looking at the guy in fronts wheel and see the pavement going by also. I've tried looking at their back, etc., but still find myself checking my distance at the wheel - and get sick.
Any advise would be great! I know that due to the gender difference (darn it anyway) I need to train twice as hard to be half as good, but my goal is still to be able to hang with, if not beat the guys this upcoming season.
Thanks for any tips!

Don't stare at anything in particular. Look at rear hub, but, seatpost, brake, ground, scenery, etc.... Keeps your eyes moving. It's safer and you will be less likely to get naseous.

Make sure you draft in the right place. It's going to depend a lot where the wind is. If the crosswind is from the left, move a bit to the right, if from the right move left. Stay about 12 inches or so behind the wheel in front of you but find the spot that feels best. Ask them to move left or move right if you are against the gutter and need some room. ( won't work during racing :-) )

Draft people you trust. They should be solid, not squirrely and point out hazards. Drafting a squirrel can pretty much use as much energy as being out in the wind yourself. Find "The Wall" and park yourself behind him.

Relax your upper body and go with the flow. Don't get all tense. That should help.

The nausea sounds strange, I've never heard of someone having such a bad physical reaction to drafting (usually a sore neck is about it).

Do you have other motion sickness problems? I'd consider asking your doctor about it.

...I can hang pretty good for a while, but then tend to get dropped, I think mostly because I don't draft well and don't get the rest the guys are getting...

First off, communicate to the group and ask for hints. They can help you fine tune your pack skills from direct observation.

Ride six inches to the left or right of the wheel in front of you. You still get a good draft but can see up the road to know what is coming up. In addition, keeping your distance is not as critical when riding to the side a little bit because you do not need to worry about running into his wheel.

Look up the road, past the rider in front of you. There is nothing you will gain from locking your gaze on the rear end of his bike. You should be able to judge your distance using your periphial vision. Looking down at his rear wheel is dangerous.

Relax, lots of people waste energy using a death grip on the bars when they are in a pace line.

Never take a pull until you are hanging with the group for the whole ride. Play the girl card if necessary. In addition, do not hang out at the very back of the paceline, this is the hardest spot to be. You should try to be the 4th or 5th rider in line. If you have to get up front take a short pull, 60 seconds, 100 pedal strokes, 7 telephone poles.

Use your gears so you are spinning and not grinding. Think about maintaining the cadence you should be in, not looking at what gear the masher uses.

Watch out for squirrels and avoid following their wheels. You might try some bumping drills in a grassy area with hubby and with out your shoes clipped in. Get to know what it feels like if you brush elbows and learn that you will not fall just because you touch, that will let you relax some. If you get really ambitious practice rubbing wheels and turning IN and drifting back.

Don't stare at anything in particular. Look at rear hub, but, seatpost, brake, ground, scenery, etc.... Keeps your eyes moving. It's safer and you will be less likely to get naseous

In terms of things to stare at, I find staring at their legs, back, or butt is best.
Staring at their wheel, you will see them move backwards a tiny bit and immediately brake, grabbing a fistful, scaring the people behind you, and scaring yourself, where it probably wasn't necessary. Staring at other parts than the wheel you are less sensitive to these fluctuations in speed, and as long as you are giving the person in front of you a decent amount of room, you shouldn't have any problems.
Since you don't see as many fluctuations, don't grab the brake as much, and are less stressed, you save a lot of energy.

I don't normally look at the back wheel at all. Mostly I'm looking _through_ the rider, just like you look thru the windows of the car in front of you while driving. I want to see what's happening 2-3-5 riders up the line.

I can tell about how far the gap between our wheels is without looking, just based on experience I guess.

But, I tend to add extra room when riding with people I don't know. Say a foot or two. If the going gets really fast and I'm hanging on, then I'll scooch up to six inches or so, but that's rare.

Be careful of overlapping wheels; this is a real danger and all too common. Frankly it's better to hang 2 feet back than to crash becuase somebody on the internet said 6 inches is the proper gap.

Good news is, as a female you're probably smaller than most of the guys you're drafting, and nobody really expects you to pull through, so don't. That may be chauvinist, but if you're hanging on, I've personally got no problem with you sitting in.

The hard part (easy to say, hard to do) is to relax. Make a conscious effort. Remember in driver's ed they taught to scan the mirrors every 5 seconds or whatever? Same kind of drill - "look through him, see what's up ahead, relax hands, breathe, spin, breathe, look, relax shoulders, relax elbows" etc.

The way my bike is setup, the drops are my most stable position. Meaning, if I'm in the drops, you can come bashing into me and I'll just absorb it. If I'm on the brakes, like most people ride most of the time, I'm less stable if you bash into me. See if you can find your most stable position so you can take some bumps.

With less weight, you might get bumped more, but you also have a lower center of gravity so as long as your shoulder is lower than the other guy's, you're going to win a shoving match. Try it sometime. On grass, with sneakers and long pants.


Creak.

First off, communicate to the group and ask for hints. They can help you fine tune your pack skills from direct observation.

Ride six inches to the left or right of the wheel in front of you. You still get a good draft but can see up the road to know what is coming up. In addition, keeping your distance is not as critical when riding to the side a little bit because you do not need to worry about running into his wheel.

Look up the road, past the rider in front of you. There is nothing you will gain from locking your gaze on the rear end of his bike. You should be able to judge your distance using your periphial vision. Looking down at his rear wheel is dangerous.

Relax, lots of people waste energy using a death grip on the bars when they are in a pace line.

Never take a pull until you are hanging with the group for the whole ride. Play the girl card if necessary. In addition, do not hang out at the very back of the paceline, this is the hardest spot to be. You should try to be the 4th or 5th rider in line. If you have to get up front take a short pull, 60 seconds, 100 pedal strokes, 7 telephone poles.

Use your gears so you are spinning and not grinding. Think about maintaining the cadence you should be in, not looking at what gear the masher uses.

Watch out for squirrels and avoid following their wheels. You might try some bumping drills in a grassy area with hubby and with out your shoes clipped in. Get to know what it feels like if you brush elbows and learn that you will not fall just because you touch, that will let you relax some. If you get really ambitious practice rubbing wheels and turning IN and drifting back.
If you have to get up front take a short pull, 60 seconds, 100 pedal strokes, 7 telephone poles.
whoa. depending on the speed, that's a pretty long pull, where I come from. If you are struggling, and you absolutely have to rotate, I would suggest getting up, getting over. Rotate right through. Do not stop to collect your $200 -- move up, move over.

This is very, very important to remember -- so many newish riders want to show themselves and the world that they're willing to do their share by taking pulls when they're struggling. Don't. Don't worry about it. If you find that pulling is killing you, or even starting to kill you, don't pull. No one will think anything of it. Only if you show up out of nowhere and take the sprint is anyone even going to notice.

I also differ with the advice to stay 4th or 5th wheel -- yes, a wheel other than the last one is usually the cushiest, but it's disrupting to the paceline for someone not taking pulls to sit 4th wheel. If you're not pulling, you really ought to stay in the back. If it's not a race, and there aren't more than about fifteen, twenty riders, the yo-yoing shouldn't be too bad.

I also look through the wheel in front of me, to try to be aware of the road ahead, etc. Course, I'm not usually much interested in the butt ahead of me, either. YMMV.

In terms of things to stare at, I find staring at their legs, back, or butt is best.

I knew you were gay! ...nttawwt.

It was the "you're getting really nice legs" comment during superweek that gave it away :)

Want to do a 2 man TT this spring? I'll let you "stare at my ass."

I need some help drafting. I typically ride by myself, but go for the occasional ride with my husband and the guys - all better than myself. I can hang pretty good for a while, but then tend to get dropped, I think mostly because I don't draft well and don't get the rest the guys are getting. My problem is I get nauseous when I'm looking at the guy in fronts wheel and see the pavement going by also. I've tried looking at their back, etc., but still find myself checking my distance at the wheel - and get sick.
Any advise would be great! I know that due to the gender difference (darn it anyway) I need to train twice as hard to be half as good, but my goal is still to be able to hang with, if not beat the guys this upcoming season.
Thanks for any tips!
Are we talking double or single file?
As someone mentioned here, don't pull until you can hang with the pack.
Make sure there are plenty of riders in the front as well as the back.
I believe the last guy in the paceline gets little bit of drag so avoid being the last rider.
Always look 2 or 3 rider ahead. Maybe that will take care the nauseous issues...


Good Luck.

One thing I don't see mentioned here is stay closer to the front of the group if it's a mid to large sized pack (10-15 riders). Try and stay in the front 1/2 if at all possible.

One mistake I see weaker riders make is hanging out at the back of the pack thinking that's the best place to be for drafting sine there are more people in front of them. The problem is the back of the pack is a slinky. As the front rider tires, avoids an obstacle, slows for a small hill, etc....The rest of the pack bunches up together. Then the front guys take off and it gets worse the farther back you are.

When this happens weaker riders hanging around in the back can get slinged off the back of the pack, losing the draft and getting dropped fast!

By staying closer to the front, you don't have nearly as much slinky action going on and the pace is steadier...just make sure the rest of the group knows what you are doing and they should be OK with it.

Other than that:

Keep about a 12" gap between you and the rider in front of you to allow for small changes in speed.

Don't cross wheels because if the guy in front of you has to make a sudden swerve and they clip your front wheel....you are going down and there is nothing you can do about it!

Move around a little to find the best draft. Rarely do you ever have a direct head on wind. When there is a cross wind, being to one side or the other of a rider will put you into a better draft. Generally if you move to one side or the other you will find it get easier or harder...always go to the easier side.

Keep pedaling while in the paceline....Don't coast. This allows you to quickly catch a gap that opens up should those in front of you open it up a little. It also helps keep your balance a bit better, and may help a bit with your nauseous feeling.

Instead of using your brakes, move to the side of the rider in front of you and let the wind slow you down. It's more predictable to those behind you because they can see what you are doing. Using your brakes is one big reason for the slinky action that happens in packs/pacelines.

Don't be afraid to stay in your drops while in a paceline....It helps! I see most people get on their hoods when they drop back into the paceline. If you are struggling stay in your drops. It's more aero and generally you can hold a bit more power there.

Anyway....Just a few hopefully helpful hints....

I knew you were gay! ...nttawwt.

It was the "you're getting really nice legs" comment during superweek that gave it away :)

Want to do a 2 man TT this spring? I'll let you "stare at my ass."

I never said that! Grossssss.
I already have a "partner" for my 2 mans, though if we do a three-man I'll let you join in :ihih:

I'm not sure how many 2-mans I'll be doing. But if there's one Scott and I aren't doing that you want to do, if you can convince me I'm game.

I don't normally look at the back wheel at all. Mostly I'm looking _through_ the rider, just like you look thru the windows of the car in front of you while driving. I want to see what's happening 2-3-5 riders up the line.

I can tell about how far the gap between our wheels is without looking, just based on experience I guess.

But, I tend to add extra room when riding with people I don't know. Say a foot or two. If the going gets really fast and I'm hanging on, then I'll scooch up to six inches or so, but that's rare.

Be careful of overlapping wheels; this is a real danger and all too common. Frankly it's better to hang 2 feet back than to crash becuase somebody on the internet said 6 inches is the proper gap.

Good news is, as a female you're probably smaller than most of the guys you're drafting, and nobody really expects you to pull through, so don't. That may be chauvinist, but if you're hanging on, I've personally got no problem with you sitting in.

The hard part (easy to say, hard to do) is to relax. Make a conscious effort. Remember in driver's ed they taught to scan the mirrors every 5 seconds or whatever? Same kind of drill - "look through him, see what's up ahead, relax hands, breathe, spin, breathe, look, relax shoulders, relax elbows" etc.

The way my bike is setup, the drops are my most stable position. Meaning, if I'm in the drops, you can come bashing into me and I'll just absorb it. If I'm on the brakes, like most people ride most of the time, I'm less stable if you bash into me. See if you can find your most stable position so you can take some bumps.

With less weight, you might get bumped more, but you also have a lower center of gravity so as long as your shoulder is lower than the other guy's, you're going to win a shoving match. Try it sometime. On grass, with sneakers and long pants.


Creak.

very good advice here.
you don't need to stare at the person ahead to know where they are. Look through them. I'm pretty small in my drops and often find i can't look over shoulders but look under the riders arm or around them. Keeping your elbows tucked in will help you as well.

Instead of taking pulls, just swing off after the rider ahead of you is clear. Drafting takes some time to get good at. keep it up!

I could write 5-10 pages just on drafting. But several drafting suggestions, ride further back and not so close and "pretend" you are drafting. Do all the drafting stuff. When you feel comfortable, ride a little closer and do the same thing. Learn to draft on roads that are straight, little turns, and no potholes and no rough spots, like the interstate highways. You'll get a great breeze and great drafting behind those semi's. Only kidding but the first part I meant about drafting a little further away.

I find it better to learn to draft when you are in a pack of riders. Position yourself in the middle surrounded by 10 riders or 6-8 riders. Just ride in the middle, very close to everyone.

Another way to learn to draft is to ride on a very windy, somewhat cold day with lots of bright sun. You ride into the wind with the biggest rider that you can find in front of you. You put yourself into a position behind the front rider that you don't feel the wind blowing anymore, it's quiet, like the eye of a tornado, no wind blowing, you can feel the warmth of the sun shining on you. Then you move yourself over a little or back a little and all of a sudden, you feel the wind, you her the noise, and you don't feel that warmth of the sun on you. You have now moved out of the draft area. And when you move back into the draft area, you know it, it's quiet, no or little wind, and you feel the warmth of the sun again.

I also find the greatest benefit of drafting is when I'm riding in the drops.

You also have to be a strong rider with good cadence because you should be maintaining a level speed.

Thanks for the tips, I'll be putting them into practice as soon as we can get out on the road.

........Ride six inches to the left or right of the wheel in front of you. You still get a good draft .......

We ride in one of the windiest areas on earth and never ride that close. I'd say at least 12" to the side and closer to 18" back. Of course it's always gusty so everyone moves around some!

If you are racing, you have to take chances by drafting very close, but for most of us, I just do not see the risk/reward working out. The difference in benefit of a draft just can't be that different.

There is much more difference in drafting a small rider vs a large one, which is why the most popular guys on our rides are WIDE! :D

Oh yeah. The point of all this is the stress/tension of drafting is reduced a lot by backing off just a little.