http://www.kerrylied.com/ see the movie, read the site.

http://www.kerrylied.com/ see the movie, read the site.

I've always thought Kerry should tone down the Viet Nam war rhetoric- slogging through the jungle does not make someone a great commander-in-chief (nor does hanging out stateside cultivating an alcohol problem). However, I would find this to be the most monumental blunder for Kerry if indeed he did "lie" about his record. He has to know that half the country is gunning for him, and scrutinizing everything he says. Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if there were some bitter, never-has-been, burnt-out old vets who are seizing this opportunity for their own agenda (money, fame, psychosis). Anyone can start a website or publish a book. For whatever reasons, drudge and the other right-wing outlets have been embracing this story (as the did his alleged affair that surfaced a few months ago) while the mainstream media, and the Republican campaign, have largely avoided it.

Go figure.

Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry's military service "dishonest and dishonorable" and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.

"It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me," McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press, referring to his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush.

Pathetic.

Carefull, you might damage your hearing in that echo chamber. Try to get out once in a while.

I've always thought Kerry should tone down the Viet Nam war rhetoric- slogging through the jungle does not make someone a great commander-in-chief (nor does hanging out stateside cultivating an alcohol problem). However, I would find this to be the most monumental blunder for Kerry if indeed he did "lie" about his record. He has to know that half the country is gunning for him, and scrutinizing everything he says. Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if there were some bitter, never-has-been, burnt-out old vets who are seizing this opportunity for their own agenda (money, fame, psychosis). Anyone can start a website or publish a book. For whatever reasons, drudge and the other right-wing outlets have been embracing this story (as the did his alleged affair that surfaced a few months ago) while the mainstream media, and the Republican campaign, have largely avoided it.

Go figure.

the story will gain momentum as time passes. you cant accuse kerry of not having a plan. he had one in vietnam and he has one now. just turns out all his plans focus around him and his quest for money, control and power.





As WorldNetDaily has reported, the piece of shrapnel was removed from Kerry's arm and a Band-Aid was put on the wound.

O'Neill interviewed Cmdr. Grant Hibbard, with whom Kerry initially applied for the Purple Heart:


Q: When did you first meet John Kerry?
GH: Kerry reported to my division in November 1968. I didn't know him from Adam.

Q: Can you describe the mission in which Kerry got his first Purple Heart?

GH: Kerry requested permission to go on a skimmer operation with Lieutenant Schachte, my most senior and trusted lieutenant, using a Boston whaler to try to interdict a Viet Cong movement of arms and munitions. The next morning at the briefing, I was informed that no enemy fire had been received on that mission. Our units had fired on some VC units running on the beach. We were all in my office, some of the crew members, I remember Schachte being there.

This was 36 years ago; it really didn't seem all that important at the time. Here was this lieutenant, junior grade, who was saying "I got wounded," and everybody else, the crew that were present were saying, "We didn't get any fire. We don't know how he got the scratch." Kerry showed me the scratch on his arm. I hadn't been informed that he had any medical treatment. The scratch didn't look like much to me; I've seen worse injuries from a rose thorn.

Q: Did Kerry want you to recommend him for a Purple Heart?

GH: Yes, that was his whole point. He had this little piece of shrapnel in his hand. It was tiny. I was told later that Kerry had fired an M-79 grenade and that he had misjudged it. He fired it too close to the shore, and it exploded on a rock or something. He got hit by a piece of shrapnel from a grenade that he had fired himself. The injury was self-inflicted, that's what made sense to me. I told Kerry to "forget it." There was no hostile fire, the injury was self-inflicted for all I knew, besides it was nothing really more than a scratch. Kerry wasn't getting any Purple Heart recommendation from me.

Q: How did Kerry get a Purple Heart from the incident then?

GH: I don't know. It beats me. I know I didn't recommend him for a Purple Heart. Kerry probably wrote up the paperwork and recommended himself, that's all I can figure out. If it ever came across my desk, I don't have any recollection of it. Kerry didn't get my signature. I said "no way" and told him to get out of my office.

Concludes O'Neill: "Amazingly, Kerry somehow 'gamed the system' nearly three months later to obtain the Purple Heart that Hibbard had denied. How he obtained the award is unknown, since his refusal to execute Standard Form 180 means that whatever documents exist are known only to Kerry, the Department of Defense and God. It is clear that there should be numerous other documents, but only a treatment record reflecting a scratch and a certificate signed three months later have been produced."

the story will gain momentum as time passes. you cant accuse kerry of not having a plan. he had one in vietnam and he has one now. just turns out all his plans focus around him and his quest for money, control and power.
Sad. Pathetic.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4985.shtml

Oh, and before you dismiss Capitol Hill Blue as fantasy, they picked the story up from the Boston Globe:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_criticism_of_kerry/

Just sickening.

Sad. Pathetic.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4985.shtml

Oh, and before you dismiss Capitol Hill Blue as fantasy, they picked the story up from the Boston Globe:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_criticism_of_kerry/

Just sickening.
Heck when McCain is sticking up for a Dem candidate you can bet that the Repubs have little real ammo on Kerry's war record.

What's the difference between a lie and an exaggeration?

Deep down, I'd bet the Kerry camp is loving this hullabaloo about his VN service. It deflects attention away from where it should be ... his voting record. All in due time. He can run, but he can't hide.

What's the difference between a lie and an exaggeration?

Deep down, I'd bet the Kerry camp is loving this hullabaloo about his VN service. It deflects attention away from where it should be ... his voting record. All in due time. He can run, but he can't hide.

Um, yeah, sure... his voting record... what are the words every republican MUST work into each sentence about Kerry... oh, yeah... "flip-flop"- as if they say it enough, it simply must be true. If you look at ANY senators voting record, you will find, shall we say, "anomalies."

Look at Bush acting like he is some sort of friend of the environment... speaking of records...

It seems to me that the republicans are running dangerously close to a "dirty" campaign- especially considering the fodder the dems could use against GW if they chose to. Of course, the real trick is using a third party to really sling the mud. Oh well... all this fuss simply indicates the republicans actually have something to fear... and that substance alone will not keep GW in office.

Sad. Pathetic.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4985.shtml

Oh, and before you dismiss Capitol Hill Blue as fantasy, they picked the story up from the Boston Globe:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_criticism_of_kerry/

Just sickening.


the witness who signed the affadavit against kerry says now he simply doesnt have first hand knowlege.

But he said: ''I simply have no reason for these guys to be lying, and if they are lying in concert, it is one hell of a conspiracy. So, on the basis of all of the information that has come out, I have chosen to believe the other men. I absolutely do not know first hand."

was elliott under pressure to recant? since kerrys lawyers are pressuring tv stations to not run the swift boat crews anti-kerry adds, maybe mr. elliott was introduced to the story of mr. foster?

maybe mr. elliott was introduced to the story of mr. foster?
Those Democrats are a murderous lot. I would advise you never to reveal your real-world name here. After all the bad things you've said about them, I fear you'd be in trouble.

Heck when McCain is sticking up for a Dem candidate you can bet that the Repubs have little real ammo on Kerry's war record.


well, well, well. what do we have here? do you think mccain knows the reporter for the boston globe who wrote the story is also the PAID author of the book kerry/edwards, their promises and policies????

that the swift boat veteran elliott that the boston globe reporter is writing the story about says the reporter has grossly misquoted him??

that the swift boat vets group and elliott have reconfirmed as of 2p today their story as true and elliott specifically says he stands by what the swift boat vets say???

do you think the boston globe is the demmy house organ for kerry or are they just corrupt and stupid??

well, well, well. what do we have here? do you think mccain knows the reporter for the boston globe who wrote the story is also the PAID author of the book kerry/edwards, their promises and policies????

that the swift boat veteran elliott that the boston globe reporter is writing the story about says the reporter has grossly misquoted him??

that the swift boat vets group and elliott have reconfirmed as of 2p today their story as true and elliott specifically says he stands by what the swift boat vets say???

do you think the boston globe is the demmy house organ for kerry or are they just corrupt and stupid??
What are you ranting about here? I don't see how it relates to McCain's comments that the Repubs are playing dirty with Kerry's war record.

well, well, well. what do we have here? do you think mccain knows the reporter for the boston globe who wrote the story is also the PAID author of the book kerry/edwards, their promises and policies????

that the swift boat veteran elliott that the boston globe reporter is writing the story about says the reporter has grossly misquoted him??

that the swift boat vets group and elliott have reconfirmed as of 2p today their story as true and elliott specifically says he stands by what the swift boat vets say???

do you think the boston globe is the demmy house organ for kerry or are they just corrupt and stupid??


add a big stretch before a nap with mine.

What are you ranting about here? I don't see how it relates to McCain's comments that the Repubs are playing dirty with Kerry's war record.

do you think mccain knew the points i posted before he spoke?

theres no playing dirty with anyones war record. how is truth and a group of 250 vietnam vets who say kerrys a fricking liar make the truth dirty?

do you think mccain knew the points i posted before he spoke?

theres no playing dirty with anyones war record. how is truth and a group of 250 vietnam vets who say kerrys a fricking liar make the truth dirty?


SHHHHH Bill trying to nap.

Pretty Ironic, there are probably at least that number on this site that would say the same thing about every post you ooze out.

Why this is a non-starter...
From CNN, FOX, MSNBC, NYT, WP etc.

Front pages either Najaf or the enemic job report. OOPS FOX just switched to the much bigger story of Mary Kay Latearneau (sp) getting back together with her boytoy.

Which do you think people care about BILL?

. . .of these sleazy goons differs depending on who he talks to?

SHHHHH Bill trying to nap.

Pretty Ironic, there are probably at least that number on this site that would say the same thing about every post you ooze out.

Why this is a non-starter...
From CNN, FOX, MSNBC, NYT, WP etc.

Front pages either Najaf or the enemic job report.

Which do you think people care about BILL?

wise up midget.

http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc89.htm

. . .

But for a guy who volunteers to get into the war, volunteers to get off a cozy destroyer and onto Vietnam rivers, rushes one machine gun nest and gets wounded (slightly) three times in about three months, it's amazing that this is an issue.

Bill, where was your beloved Lord W during all this?

wise up midget.

http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc89.htm

Who do you think reaches more of the populace.

Fox + MSNBC + CNN + Washington Post + NYT > sludgereport

Remember the alligator eats the larger number. I am sure you remember that from your remedial math class.

But for a guy who volunteers to get into the war, volunteers to get off a cozy destroyer and onto Vietnam rivers, rushes one machine gun nest and gets wounded (slightly) three times in about three months, it's amazing that this is an issue.

Bill, where was your beloved Lord W during all this?


lord w hasnt made vietnam the centerpiece of his campaign.

http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite.net/unfit_aff.html

Being AWOL from the Champaign Brigade and all. . .

Being AWOL from the Champaign Brigade and all. . .

i didnt know bush served in illinois.

Didn't mean to distract you from your President's shameful record.

. . .of these sleazy goons differs depending on who he talks to?


test time.. who said

1. "I think George Bush served honorably in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War"

2. who didnt even know john kerry during the vietnam war

is the answer

a. john mccain
b. john mccain
c. john mccain

. . .seems to engender fetishes for irrelevant trivia.

Do points one and two mean that McCain does <i>not</i> believe that Bush should condemn the sleazy lies you are parroting?

. . .seems to engender fetishes for irrelevant trivia.

Do points one and two mean that McCain does <i>not</i> believe that Bush should condemn the sleazy lies you are parroting?


.....it gets worse.

Kerry was asked to leave Vietnam
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39835

wait...this deserves its own thread

.....it gets worse.

Kerry was asked to leave Vietnam
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39835

wait...this deserves its own thread
no it doesn't.

But for a guy who volunteers to get into the war, volunteers to get off a cozy destroyer and onto Vietnam rivers, rushes one machine gun nest and gets wounded (slightly) three times in about three months, it's amazing that this is an issue.

Bill, where was your beloved Lord W during all this?
Or Cheney for that matter. At least Bush made a feeble attempt to serve.

Bill, where was your beloved Lord W during all this?
is where billSORA was during all this. Or during the first Gulf War. Or hell, during THIS Gulf war. I haven't heard him crow about his service record, or his bravery, or his medals. Which, knowing him well, I assume, should any of this exist, would be out there in his posts for all to marvel at.

Feel free to chime in, billSORA. We're on tenterhooks waiting for more of your storied military history.

(BTW, did you call someone "midget" as well as "moron?" Man, you're not just a namecalling libby, you're an UN-PC namecalling libby! I'm impressed, Comrade!)

Hasta la victoria siempre!
FredMenace

tenterhooks


That word just is not used often enough in everyday speech.

. . .that wars are a golden opportunity for "socially dependents" to earn their keep.

That word just is not used often enough in everyday speech.
Comrade.

Here's Kerry's voting record and a site you can find other voting records:

Voted NO on $350 billion in tax breaks over 11 years. (May 2003)

Voted NO on cutting taxes by $1.35 trillion over 11 years. (May 2001)

Voted NO on eliminating the 'marriage penalty'. (Jul 2000)

Voted NO on across-the-board spending cut. (Oct 1999)

Voted NO on $792B tax cuts. (Jul 1999)

Voted NO on requiring super-majority for raising taxes. (Apr 1998)

Voted NO on FY99 tax cuts. (Apr 1998)

http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=S0421103

is where billSORA was during all this. Or during the first Gulf War. Or hell, during THIS Gulf war. I haven't heard him crow about his service record, or his bravery, or his medals. Which, knowing him well, I assume, should any of this exist, would be out there in his posts for all to marvel at.

Feel free to chime in, billSORA. We're on tenterhooks waiting for more of your storied military history.

(BTW, did you call someone "midget" as well as "moron?" Man, you're not just a namecalling libby, you're an UN-PC namecalling libby! I'm impressed, Comrade!)

Hasta la victoria siempre!
FredMenace


i only namecall when attacked.

i think its pretty clear now that kerry has/is/will lie about his vietnam service.

http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc91.htm

i only namecall when attacked.

i think its pretty clear now that kerry has/is/will lie about his vietnam service.

http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc91.htm
non-issue bill.

i only namecall when attacked.
We will watch closely, and hold you to that standard ... Comrade ...

non-issue bill.

tell that to a veteran.

tell that to a veteran.
My father in law was on a Navy Destroyer in WWII and he likes Kerry and can't stand Bush. Is that good enough for you? Sounds like these people like Kerry as well:

http://www.johnkerry.com/communities/veterans/

My father in law was on a Navy Destroyer in WWII and he likes Kerry and can't stand Bush. Is that good enough for you? Sounds like these people like Kerry as well:

http://www.johnkerry.com/communities/veterans/


bush is killing kerry in every poll taken of veterans. who's in the minority?

bush is killing kerry in every poll taken of veterans. who's in the minority?
poll schmoll. hard to believe that a veteran would support someone who leads us into another Vietnam without an exit strategy--all the while finding time to cut benefits to said veterans while praising them out of the other side of his mouth.

Um, yeah, sure... his voting record... what are the words every republican MUST work into each sentence about Kerry... oh, yeah... "flip-flop"- as if they say it enough, it simply must be true.

What's that?! Kerry's a flip-flopper? I wasn't aware of that! :rolleyes: Look, you said it, I didn't. My point was that since Kerry has no experience in the Executive branch (short of a brief stint as Lt Gov for Dukakis), he's spent most of his political life as a Legislator, which pretty much means the only thing he can be judged by is his voting record. Any noteworthy legislation? Important bills bearing his name?

The voting public should demand more from this candidate than a short 4-month tour in VietNam 35 years ago. More than his statement that there are several (unnamed) foreign leaders who support him. More than his secret (can you say Nixon-ian) plan to win the peace in Iraq. More than his "countless ways" to improve the economy, which includes not one specific.

I'm sorry, Kerry shouldn't get a free ride just because he's the ABB (anybody but Bush) candidate.

bush is killing kerry in every poll taken of veterans. who's in the minority?
Maybe those Veterans should take a look at Snopes:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp

My father in law was on a Navy Destroyer in WWII and he likes Kerry and can't stand Bush. Is that good enough for you? Sounds like these people like Kerry as well:

http://www.johnkerry.com/communities/veterans/

Wow, WWII vets like Kerry...is that good enough for me? I didn't know Kerry served in WWII!!! He's older then he looks!! Yeah sir, those WWII vets knew all about Kerry's heroics in WWII. Didn't Kerry take some shrapnel on D-Day while charging solo up to a German machinegun bunker to toss in a gernade and saved 100 of his fellow troops? Gee that Kerry was brave, heck if he was in WWII then he probably went on to Korea before hitting Vietnam!!

Wow, WWII vets like Kerry...is that good enough for me? I didn't know Kerry served in WWII!!! He's older then he looks!! Yeah sir, those WWII vets knew all about Kerry's heroics in WWII. Didn't Kerry take some shrapnel on D-Day while charging solo up to a German machinegun bunker to toss in a gernade and saved 100 of his fellow troops? Gee that Kerry was brave, heck if he was in WWII then he probably went on to Korea before hitting Vietnam!!
Are you mentally challenged?

Are you mentally challenged?

No, but your comment relating WWII vets as wanting to vote for Kerry was good enough for us was mentally challenged. How does the experience of WWII vets give them an idea of how Kerry acted in Vietnam-it doesn't even relate. And not all WWII vets are voting for Kerry regardless of what branch they served in.