The one that was published on cycling4all.com before it's demise is now on the Daily Peloton site, updated for last season.

http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=12132

Thanks for posting. I love this kind of stuff!...

I like their Top-10. I'll have to read their rationale to understand why Indurain is ahead of Armstrong. The other 5-timers I can easily understand. Man, I wish Lemond hadn't been a hunter...

Coppi at 9 seems low. Top 2 were no brainers.

This is worse than the BCS. Jan at number 22! Three ahead of Lemond!

This is worse than the BCS. Jan at number 22! Three ahead of Lemond!

Yea that is just freaking ??????

Lemond was a true all arounder if you ask me. How about Boonen at 180, behind Petacchi, Honchar, and well, a lot of folks that haven't doubled up on RvV and P-R.

Yea that is just freaking ??????

Lemond was a true all arounder if you ask me. How about Boonen at 180, behind Petacchi, Honchar, and well, a lot of folks that haven't doubled up on RvV and P-R.
Considering petacchi is 6 years older than Boonen that is hardly surprising....
As for Ullrich, 2. places and a vuelta do add a lot of points.

I know i'm going to get flamed for this, but what is Lance doing so high up on there? I can see him being in the top 50, but shouldn't only racing one race count against him?

This is worse than the BCS. Jan at number 22! Three ahead of Lemond!

It's not a subjective ranking but based on points for significant placings (and also points/mountain jerseys) in the important races of one's time for one's whole career. Seven TdFs didn't even get Armstrong into the top 10 because he didn't figure in too many other significant races, relatively speaking, over his career.

I know i'm going to get flamed for this, but what is Lance doing so high up on there? I can see him being in the top 50, but shouldn't only racing one race count against him?

I've always been surprised he's not higher. Seven TdFs, one world championships (and a 4th), 4th in a Veulta, couple of seconds in Amstel-Gold, 1 Paris-Nice & Tour of Switzerland, a Fleche-Wallone. Relatively speaking it shows how competitive the big riders of the previous generations were throughout the season. Interesting that Jalabert who basically comes from the same generation as Armstrong is ahead of him.

I know i'm going to get flamed for this, but what is Lance doing so high up on there? I can see him being in the top 50, but shouldn't only racing one race count against him?I believe otherwise. The depth of talent in the peleton is almost certainly greater today than it was when Merckx was dominating from season's beginning to end. We have arrived in the age of super specialization not because riders are lazier than before or not as talented as before, but because winning today demands such specialization. If Merckx was riding today, he would be targeting specific races (and because he's Merckx, he'd be winning many of those he targeted), but he would be targeting fewer races and winning less frequently than he did in his day. IMO, the argument that LA should be moved up some places on the list is much stronger than the argument that he should move down. Otherwise you end up with Zulle or Delgado or Rominger ahead of LA, and as excellent as those riders were, they certainly were not greater riders than LA.

I really like that if you look over all the listings, CLASSICS riders, STAGE RACE riders, etc.... It seems like among active riders, Zabel's name appears more often than expected, I guess being a year round rider with that many years in the peloton pays off.

Personally, I like Zabel.... HE fessed up to the 90s doping stuff immediately and he's always seemed like a guy who is an amazing teammate, and a guy who generally LOVES the sport.

And I"m with ya, Coppi should be higher than Lance right??? Lance was basically just the TdF guy, and the others are season-long riders that show for all the Classics and the Grand Tours, plus the World Championships, right???

It's not a subjective ranking but based on points for significant placings (and also points/mountain jerseys) in the important races of one's time for one's whole career. Seven TdFs didn't even get Armstrong into the top 10 because he didn't figure in too many other significant races, relatively speaking, over his career.
My point exactly.

I really like that if you look over all the listings, CLASSICS riders, STAGE RACE riders, etc.... It seems like among active riders, Zabel's name appears more often than expected, I guess being a year round rider with that many years in the peloton pays off.

Personally, I like Zabel.... HE fessed up to the 90s doping stuff immediately and he's always seemed like a guy who is an amazing teammate, and a guy who generally LOVES the sport.

And I"m with ya, Coppi should be higher than Lance right??? Lance was basically just the TdF guy, and the others are season-long riders that show for all the Classics and the Grand Tours, plus the World Championships, right???

Again, everyone assumes that Lance was a one race rider throughout his career. He wasn't. He did win a World Championship, Fleche Wallone, finished well in Amstel several times, and so on. I'm no Lance defender, but saying he was a one race man, is just flat out wrong.

Again, everyone assumes that Lance was a one race rider throughout his career. He wasn't. He did win a World Championship, Fleche Wallone, finished well in Amstel several times, and so on. I'm no Lance defender, but saying he was a one race man, is just flat out wrong.

Not really. Before cancer he was a classics rider, and after cancer he was a TdF rider.

If you look on the list of people before him, their results are almost certainly more consistent. That's not to say that 7 Tours is anything buy a herculean accomplishment. He isn't the only one that has the luxury of concentrating on a few select races, yet he is the only one to pull it off.

Not really. Before cancer he was a classics rider, and after cancer he was a TdF rider.

If you look on the list of people before him, their results are almost certainly more consistent. That's not to say that 7 Tours is anything buy a herculean accomplishment. He isn't the only one that has the luxury of concentrating on a few select races, yet he is the only one to pull it off.

What did Sherwin say about LA's cancer? "He's looked death in the eye before.."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Armstrong

"Without cancer, I never would have won a single Tour de France. Cancer taught me a plan for more purposeful living, and that in turn taught me how to train and to win more purposefully. It taught me that pain has a reason, and that sometimes the experience of losing things–whether health or a car or an old sense of self–has its own value in the scheme of life. Pain and loss are great enhancers."

I wonder....
IF there were a better media stream in the past if someone else's hero story of overcoming the odds and whippin butt in the peloton after beating a life threatening illness could have come to light and been just as, if not more, inspiring as Lance...???

Just wondered...

Any poll that ranks Jaja at #14 ain't right. He only had one French National title, and his World Championship was for time trialing. Granted he has some incredible wins and a few classics, but half his palmares includes wins in obscure second level Spanish races.

Heck, Louison Bobet has a MUCH better record (TDF 3x, Worlds Road, Paris-Roubaix, Flanders, Dauphine Libere, Lombardia, and France champ 2x).

And ahead of Binda? Fuggettaboutit.......

Any poll that ranks Jaja at #14 ain't right. He only had one French National title, and his World Championship was for time trialing. Granted he has some incredible wins and a few classics, but half his palmares includes wins in obscure second level Spanish races.

Heck, Louison Bobet has a MUCH better record (TDF 3x, Worlds Road, Paris-Roubaix, Flanders, Dauphine Libere, Lombardia, and France champ 2x).

And ahead of Binda? Fuggettaboutit.......
162 wins, including obscure second level spanish races like paris-nice, tour de romandie, vuelta pais vasco, san sebastian classique de alpes, giro de lombardie, fleche wallone, vuelta espana, more mountain+point+combativity jerseys than I care to count, even more stage victories.
Let's not get started on second places that also contribute points.
What a douche he was. :rolleyes:

Milan-San Remo as well.

Milan-San Remo as well.
Third tier, almost second tier race ;P

I can't tell what's sarcasm and what's for real here...

Well JaJa was for real, I'll buy that one.

Raced all year long, started his pretty long career as a sprinter, won classics, finished up with the polka dot jersey! that's what I call versatile. Then he beat Lance's time in his first marathon.

He's one of the few French riders that are permanently exempt from my gratuitous reflexive French-baiting. Along with Hinault. And I know there was another one in there, gimme a minute....

162 wins, including obscure second level spanish races like paris-nice, tour de romandie, vuelta pais vasco, san sebastian classique de alpes, giro de lombardie, fleche wallone, vuelta espana, more mountain+point+combativity jerseys than I care to count, even more stage victories.
Let's not get started on second places that also contribute points.
What a douche he was. :rolleyes:

Nobody is calling JaJa a douche bag.....he is certainly one of the most consistent and successful riders of the past two decades. He should be among the top 25 riders, but my point is that this poll has placed him ahead of more successful riders from the historic era. If this poll rewards consistency over winning so be it....but I'd take Bobet's 3 consecutive TDF's, 11 stage wins, World's win, and 4 of the 5 Monuments over JaJa's 160+ wins. Binda's 5 Giri, 41 stage wins, and 3 Worlds titles makes a pretty strong case for moving up as well.

That's the problem with modern day polls.....they tend to forget how dominant some of the riders were 50+ years ago.

Was the peloton less competitive in Merckx's era?

Or has doping just balanced out variances in natural ability today?

Coppi at 9 is wrong.

2 Tour (doubling up with Giro wins both times)
5 Giro
1 World Champ.
10 Classics win, including 5 Lombardia, 3 MSR, 1 Paris Roubaix, 1 Fleche Wallone
World Hour Record (stood for 14 years).

AND his career was interrupted by WW2, in the prime of his life.

So here we have a guy that could climb, win GTs, win Classics even on the cobbles, and could time trail. He won GTs before and after the war.

Was the peloton less competitive in Merckx's era?

Or has doping just balanced out variances in natural ability today?

Honestly, I think Merckx raced against greater champions than we have today. For instance, Mercx won all those classics against a guy that is probably the second greatest classics rider of all time (Roger De Vlaeminck).

He raced against Felice Gimondi (won all 3 GTs, WC), Joop Zoetemelk (Tdf, Vuelta, WC), Luis Ocana (Tdf, Vuelta), Bernard Thévenet (2 time TdF winner), Lucien Van Impe (Won 1 tour, lots of jerseys).

Look how many GT winners he competed against, and he still won 5 Tour, 5 Giro, and Vuelta.

Notice that 4 of the top 10 riders were in Merckx' generation.

Nobody is calling JaJa a douche bag.....he is certainly one of the most consistent and successful riders of the past two decades. He should be among the top 25 riders, but my point is that this poll has placed him ahead of more successful riders from the historic era. If this poll rewards consistency over winning so be it....but I'd take Bobet's 3 consecutive TDF's, 11 stage wins, World's win, and 4 of the 5 Monuments over JaJa's 160+ wins. Binda's 5 Giri, 41 stage wins, and 3 Worlds titles makes a pretty strong case for moving up as well.

That's the problem with modern day polls.....they tend to forget how dominant some of the riders were 50+ years ago.
The issue is that the points system is hard to make consistent for riders of different time periods.

Look at the cyclinghalloffame.com top 25 riders. They give points only for the GTs and major classics, and it's much more heavily weighted for older riders. This system is more similar to UCI points, so doing well in a lot of smaller races can put you ahead of guys with fewer, but bigger wins.

No doubt....I can't see how Coppi isn't # 5 on this list followed very closely by Gimondi, then Bartali, and then Joop. Don't get me wrong....2nd in the Tour six times is a heck of an accomplishment, but winning it outright should carry a lot more weight.