Hi all,

I am about to upgrade my 2006 AVANTI Carbonio and I am undecided whether I should upgrade to the Cannondale SuperSix team SRM, the Kestrel Talon SL or either the Look 585 Ultra or 595 Ultra? I have done a significant amount of research and I am still undecided which one to go for. Your help and comments in this decision of mine would be greatly appreciated.

Price is not really a concern however, I am after your comments and feedback as to what you have purchased, have had, or have tried and bought and what you liked/disliked about the above mentioned manufactures.

Additionally, I have the full Campag. Record groupset and Mavic Ksyrium ES rims that i will be putting on the new frame.

BTW I have also posted this same query in the Look Manufacturer's forum area.

Thanks again for your assistance and I look forward to your replies.

Regards,

Mick.

I love my System6, and others rave about the Super6 as even better, but man, the drool factor over the 595 Ultra would sway my decision in a heart beat! Ok, I know this isn't very helpful, but buying a frame is usually a partially emotional decision - at least with me it really is - so, the Look would win hands down. Now, I do love my System6 and the integrated BB with its stiffness and weight savings. The head tube is stout and the forks don't flex, compared to other bikes I've been on. It's also been very comfortable so far. For the long hauls though, I'd be inclined to straddle a Look for its geometry and handling (a bit more relaxed).

why are you not considering the 586 especially since price is not an option as they are the same price (595 & 586)? and do you need the SRM? If your not racing or training for a goal (etap) the SRM is overkill.

I have ridden both and own(ed) a 585 and a super6-with an SRM. Also, I have put many miles on a 586 and 595 ultra.

And just to preempt this, how big or small are you? Height, weight? What do you need this thing to do? Climb, sprint, both, neither, other, what? That will help with the 586/595 question...........

I would leave the Kestral out of the equation.......

Starnut

why are you not considering the 586 especially since price is not an option as they are the same price (595 & 586)? and do you need the SRM? If your not racing or training for a goal (etap) the SRM is overkill.

I have ridden both and own(ed) a 585 and a super6-with an SRM. Also, I have put many miles on a 586 and 595 ultra.

And just to preempt this, how big or small are you? Height, weight? What do you need this thing to do? Climb, sprint, both, neither, other, what? That will help with the 586/595 question...........

I would leave the Kestral out of the equation.......

Starnut

Hi Starnut,

I am 33, weigh 81kg, height 196cm and I'm an Aussie :)

I enjoy long rides - about 50-180kms; on average though I do about a 100km per ride. I ride to work as well so on average I'm doing about 350-400kms a week (at the moment). I currently mix up my riding with both hills and flat and often combine both terrains in the one long ride. I do not race competition, nor do I sprint. I average about 36-40km/h on the flat.

I have not ridden any of the bikes I have mentioned. I've just read a lot of reviews and feel that I would be most suited to the stiffness of the Cannondale SuperSix team SRM or either the Look 595 Ultra or 585 Ultra. My friend and riding companion has a Kestrel and is really pushing for me to get on however, I'm really not convinced and I'm leaning towards the others. For me, I love the lifetime warrantee of the Cannondale, yet at the same time I love the 15% more stiffness of the Look frames. I do not know which way to go. I'm sure that either selection will be a far greater improvement then my current Avanti Carbonio ride. Sadly, I cannot test ride any of the frames I mentioned prior to buying.

I chose the Cannondale SuperSix team SRM as a replacement frame due to the fact it was highly recommended and through further research and reviews. As a side note the Cannondale is some AUS$1500 cheaper than the Look 595. Although this last point is not really a consideration.

As mentioned I was looking at the extra 15% stiffness of either the 595/585 and that is why I have not considered the 586. However, I am willing to be corrected on this matter. Please feel free. One apealing factor for me about the 586 over the other two Look frames is that it is the lightest Look frame. **EDIT ** I went into my Look bike store here in Oz and they recommended that I should really give thought to purchasing a 586 considering I spend so long in the saddle (160km). They mentioned that if I buy an Ultra that it considerably less forgiving than a 595 and after a 4-6 hour ride it I would find it difficult to walk the next day. He said that even the professionals do not use Ultra's for this reason. So the 586 seems like a very worthy purchase; the only consideration is that the biggest size is an XL (57) and I need a 59-60. My conundrum worsens :-) The guy in the store said he would ring the Oz Look importer to see if there is a bigger 586 frame. If not I think I might have to look past the 586, sadly, as I was beginning to warm to it.

I have heard that Look head stems have a tendency to creak quite considerably. Is this true? Is this also true for the Cannondale?

Thanks for your help so far and I hope my further contribution provides a better insight into what frame you think I would be best suited to.

Thanks again and I look forward to your replies.

Best Regards,

Mick

I have never ridden a Look frame but, I had the opportunity to ride a System Six and a Super Six on the same day over the same roads. You mentioned the Look frame was 15% stiffer. So stiffness in a frame must be important to you. If that is the case, you should look at the System Six! Your weight puts you in that transitional area between the two frames. A heavier more powerful rider will prefer the System Six over the Super Six. I weigh 101kg and found the Sys6 to be noticeable stiffer then the Sup6. The Sys6 also gave me more confidence going into a turn at speed, while giving me a very comfortable ride over rough roads. It also gave a greater sense of acceleration. The Sup6 I rode was the Record Team version without SRM and the Sys6 had the SRAM Force gruppo. Of the several bikes tested last summer, the Sys6 is the only one that spoke to me ……’ C’mon, let’s go a little faster’! So I ordered a Sys6 frame and built it up this past August. The bike is a 56cm with a Hologram SL crankset and SRAM Force/DA drive train. The bike with pedals weighs 7.15kg.

I think the System Six Record Team Liquigas Ltd. is still available this year, it’s built the same as the Sup6 you mentioned above.

I should also mention that at time the 2 bikes were tested, I owned a DA equiped 2006 Team 1 Six 13. I felt it's (the Six 13) general ride qualities were slightly better mannered then the Super Six! The Super Six is rider weight sensitive.

I've read many reviews on the Six sisters and can't imagine that the Looks could be a better bike based on reviews, especially when it comes to stiffness. I have owned a few Kestrel Talons, and as noted above, I wouldn't even park a Talon in the same garage as the other two.

Hi Starnut,

I am 33, weigh 81kg, height 196cm and I'm an Aussie :)

I enjoy long rides - about 50-180kms; on average though I do about a 100km per ride. I ride to work as well so on average I'm doing about 350-400kms a week (at the moment). I currently mix up my riding with both hills and flat and often combine both terrains in the one long ride. I do not race competition, nor do I sprint. I average about 36-40km/h on the flat.

I have not ridden any of the bikes I have mentioned. I've just read a lot of reviews and feel that I would be most suited to the stiffness of the Cannondale SuperSix team SRM or either the Look 595 Ultra or 585 Ultra. My friend and riding companion has a Kestrel and is really pushing for me to get on however, I'm really not convinced and I'm leaning towards the others. For me, I love the lifetime warrantee of the Cannondale, yet at the same time I love the 15% more stiffness of the Look frames. I do not know which way to go. I'm sure that either selection will be a far greater improvement then my current Avanti Carbonio ride. Sadly, I cannot test ride any of the frames I mentioned prior to buying.

I chose the Cannondale SuperSix team SRM as a replacement frame due to the fact it was highly recommended and through further research and reviews. As a side note the Cannondale is some AUS$1500 cheaper than the Look 595. Although this last point is not really a consideration.

As mentioned I was looking at the extra 15% stiffness of either the 595/585 and that is why I have not considered the 586. However, I am willing to be corrected on this matter. Please feel free. One apealing factor for me about the 586 over the other two Look frames is that it is the lightest Look frame. **EDIT ** I went into my Look bike store here in Oz and they recommended that I should really give thought to purchasing a 586 considering I spend so long in the saddle (160km). They mentioned that if I buy an Ultra that it considerably less forgiving than a 595 and after a 4-6 hour ride it I would find it difficult to walk the next day. He said that even the professionals do not use Ultra's for this reason. So the 586 seems like a very worthy purchase; the only consideration is that the biggest size is an XL (57) and I need a 59-60. My conundrum worsens :-) The guy in the store said he would ring the Oz Look importer to see if there is a bigger 586 frame. If not I think I might have to look past the 586, sadly, as I was beginning to warm to it.

I have heard that Look head stems have a tendency to creak quite considerably. Is this true? Is this also true for the Cannondale?

Thanks for your help so far and I hope my further contribution provides a better insight into what frame you think I would be best suited to.

Thanks again and I look forward to your replies.

Best Regards,

Mick


Since we are not talking about a race bike or a season goal, the PM may be overkill for you and thay are not cheap. I have PMs on all of my bikes but I race so I value the info. Its up to you to decide if you want it. If you keep it and don't buy WKO+ you are wasteing your time and it is a $3500US toy.

As someone mentioned above, your on the line where you could pick either frame (595/586). I don't think you are going to lose any performance riding the 586. I'm 148 lbs and If I had to buy a frame today it would be the 586.

A small note on the 15% from Look. It is an average and mostly comes from the rear triangle. The actual seat and down tubes are not stiffer. The headtube and RT are though which is possible why it is rougher. Furter, the 586 and a 595/ultra are built two different ways. The 595s are lugged and glued useing extra material at the joints. The 586 is a monoquoque front and reat triangles and the hand wraped joints or what others call "carbon welding". Even further, the chain and seat stay "shapes" tell the tale. The 595s look like I-beams (for lack of a better description) while the 586s are tapered in the middle to (presumably) tamp down some the road noise. If it works, I don't know, something is though.


I ride on a team affiliated with a shop that rides cannondales. I have a custom super 6 and it is probably one of the nicest riding bikes I've had.

In the end either one would be a good choice. At your weight and riding style I'd personaly stear you away from the ultras.

Starnut

I've owned a Six13, ridden a Systemsix for a few weeks and own a 585, the 585 is a flawless machine. Its a few levels above the systemsix in every aspect possible, its above and beyond the Cannondale and I doubt you'd find anyone who's ridden both that would disagree

I've owned a Six13, ridden a Systemsix for a few weeks and own a 585, the 585 is a flawless machine. Its a few levels above the systemsix in every aspect possible, its above and beyond the Cannondale and I doubt you'd find anyone who's ridden both that would disagree


What do weigh???

My two cents: I have had the SuperSix (the black one with Liquigas graphics) for six months now and logged a couple thousand miles on it. I also did my first race of this season two days ago on it -- previously I had the Six13. The SuperSix is outstanding on descents, tight corners and very stiff on sprints (moreso than the Six13). And the thin seatstays really soak up a lot of road buzz. This makes the SuperSix far more comfortable than the SystemSix (which I have ridden), which is very stiff but not the most comfortable bike over long distances.

My teammate two weeks ago got the 2008 Look 595 (the one that's half white/half black). He had a SystemSix earlier last year but sold it because he didn't feel comfortable on the bike (he is relatively light rider). He loves his new Look, but when I asked him how much "better" it was than the SystemSix, he said it was a smoother ride, but not a materially better bike. As he put it, ultimately, when you get to the $5K+ price range, all of these bikes are excellent and the differences among them are relatively minor. Depends on your taste.

Hi all,

After significant delay (5 months), I just thought that I would write to finally advise you all of my choice and inform you that I ended up going for the Look 586 tri-athlete in black. After I've put my Campagnolo record group set, Mavic Ksyrium ES rims and tri-bars on it and my bike weighs just 5kg.

I cannot speak highly enough of this bike nor could I complement its features enough. I would have no hesitation what so ever to brag about this bike to any one who will listen; and anyone who won’t for that matter :-)

What can I say about my new ride? Well after a comprehensive 2500km thorough workout, I'd like to say this is simply the best bike I have ever ridden. I cannot speak highly enough of it! I have ridden on many significant long distance rides consisting of comprehensive hill workouts to long 200km rides on the flat. In both scenarios this bike never blinked an eye and wanted more! It is so responsive and so aggressive on the hills it still continues to amaze me. If only I was a better rider I could really put this bike to the extremes of it paces. It is simply magic. It glides effortlessly at all times and is especially noticeable on the downhill. Look should be commended for designing such an extremely comfortable to ride, which is a major consideration given the long distances I ride. Put simply this bike is pure manufacturing genius and I’m still as in love with it as the first time I rode it. I simply cannot keep off it (I pine when I’m away from it). I’m always looking forward to when I’m next going on it, and I ride it at almost every opportunity. Thankfully I have an extremely understanding wife who supports my new found ‘relationship’ and passion for cycling – lucky for me my perceived unhealthy attraction is only towards my bike and not other women :-)

In seriousness though, my Look 586 is simply outstanding and is without doubt the best purchase I have ever bought. I hope this helps anyone who is similarly undecided which frame/manufacturer to go for.

Thanks to everyone for your feedback, comments and suggestions. A special thank you must go to STARTNUT who gently (and thankfully) persuaded me towards the 586. I owe you a beer!

Cheers and happy riding.

Mick.

Hi all,

After significant delay (5 months), I just thought that I would write to finally advise you all of my choice and inform you that I ended up going for the Look 586 tri-athlete in black. After I've put my Campagnolo record group set, Mavic Ksyrium ES rims and tri-bars on it and my bike weighs just 5kg.

I cannot speak highly enough of this bike nor could I complement its features enough. I would have no hesitation what so ever to brag about this bike to any one who will listen; and anyone who won’t for that matter :-)

What can I say about my new ride? Well after a comprehensive 2500km thorough workout, I'd like to say this is simply the best bike I have ever ridden. I cannot speak highly enough of it! I have ridden on many significant long distance rides consisting of comprehensive hill workouts to long 200km rides on the flat. In both scenarios this bike never blinked an eye and wanted more! It is so responsive and so aggressive on the hills it still continues to amaze me. If only I was a better rider I could really put this bike to the extremes of it paces. It is simply magic. It glides effortlessly at all times and is especially noticeable on the downhill. Look should be commended for designing such an extremely comfortable to ride, which is a major consideration given the long distances I ride. Put simply this bike is pure manufacturing genius and I’m still as in love with it as the first time I rode it. I simply cannot keep off it (I pine when I’m away from it). I’m always looking forward to when I’m next going on it, and I ride it at almost every opportunity. Thankfully I have an extremely understanding wife who supports my new found ‘relationship’ and passion for cycling – lucky for me my perceived unhealthy attraction is only towards my bike and not other women :-)

In seriousness though, my Look 586 is simply outstanding and is without doubt the best purchase I have ever bought. I hope this helps anyone who is similarly undecided which frame/manufacturer to go for.

Thanks to everyone for your feedback, comments and suggestions. A special thank you must go to STARTNUT who gently (and thankfully) persuaded me towards the 586. I owe you a beer!

Cheers and happy riding.

Mick.



nice ......

pics..?

Look x86 bikes have always been nice to me..


Owned 2 of them over the years.. always a nice ride.

..monocoque is where it is at.