Let's take a poll:

In the recent couple of years there has been an advent of new stainless steel frames developed. The weight penalty of steel has diminished and steel frames are able to be custom made unlike carbon fiber. Will the lively ride quality of steel which has been an acceptable loss in favor of other frame characteristics ever make a comeback?
What do you think?

1) Yes...steel frames will be big again in the mainstream market
2) No...steel frames will never gain significant popularity again

No.

Propaganda, has infiltrated our minds to the extent that weight means everything, and steel is heavy.

In the recent couple of years there has been an advent of new stainless steel frames developed.Stainless will always be a sideshow. There are plenty of other modern tubsets though.

The weight penalty of steel has diminished. . ..Steel will never match weights with Al or CF, especially for someone who cares about weight.

. . .and steel frames are able to be custom made unlike carbon fiber.Builders have been making custom CF frames for many years.

Will the lively ride quality of steel which has been an acceptable loss in favor of other frame characteristics ever make a comeback?Correlation between materials and ride characteristics are baloney. Nonetheless, people will still buy steel because it is "lively", Al because it is "stiff and efficient" and CF because they "ride a lot of chipseal and they really notice how it dampens vibrations."

What do you think?

1) Yes...steel frames will be big again in the mainstream marketNever. Al is too cheap to manufacture and especially to tart up to look special and high tech.

2) No...steel frames will never gain significant popularity againSteel frames still have significant popularity, especially among informed buyers.

steel is back

I miss my Colnago Masterlight steel ride. I've been riding my AL Dream. I do agree w/ a previous post that said it's about weight. These days, most are concerned w/ weight. I hope it does come back, who can say?

12 bikes and all of them steel...what was the question?

where'd they go? somebody go catch them. tell them it was all a big misunderstanding or something.

Steel's big at my house. I have 4 steel bikes. Ride all of them.

If you let it go and it returns, then you'll know it loves you. If it doesn't come back, then it was never meant to be.

While we're on this topic, does anyone think that polyester leisure suits will come back?

While we're on this topic, does anyone think that polyester leisure suits will come back?

I'm still wearing mine. Did they go out of style? Don't even ask, yes I wear it on the bike although it looked best with the Murray and that was steel!

I am looking at my four and my wife's three. Didn't know they left. Riding em today.

atmo -

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2077/2262284325_4b676ff899.jpg

I've bought steel. I've bought aluminium. I've bought titanium. I've bought carbon.

I've bought bikes.

Yup. A well made, well designed bike will ride well or how you want it, regardless of what it's made of. Me? CF (french variety-Look) rawks me but I gotta say I lust after custom steel.

All my bikes are steel.
Pegoretti Big Leg Emma - Columbus Spirit
Eddy Merckx MX Leader - Columbus Max
Gunnar Crosshairs - True Temper
Soma Smoothie - Tange Prestige
Eddy Merckx Pista - Columbus SLX
Mercian KOM - Reynolds 531c

The BLE has a carbon fork, the rest are steel.

The difference between my BLE and a carbon frame of the same size (60X60) with the same components would be around 1.5 pounds, 24oz, a slightly less than full large water bottle.

atmo -

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2077/2262284325_4b676ff899.jpg


Custom steel will return in 4-5 years if you put down a deposit now.

I think the emphasis should be on "mainstream" when addressing the OP question. For me, that means "what's in the shop when I walk through the door?"

A couple years ago, when I looked at 4 LBSs, here is what I found.

One had a single trek touring bike, steel.

One had a single steel lemond, but with carbon stays.

One had a steel bianchi touring bike, 2 year old model that was only there because someone ordered it and never paid.

The fourth had no steel bikes, and none in the line up of brands they represented.

Not a single all steel road bike to be found on the floor of any of the shops.

I think that is the question, will the average new/intermediate rider be able to go into the average shop and have steel as an option for a road bike at the $500-1500 level, to use a definition of mainstream I just made up. I can't see that happening.

And yes, my bikes are steel.

Well, since steel bikes never went away I don't know why they need to make a comeback. Steel is still very popular in the custom world, as it always has been. The weight penalty is pretty much a myth, even without using the latest and greatest tubesets. Yes, steel may be slightly heavier but not that you'd really notice. We won't see a lot more steel frames in the bike shops than there are already but custom is another story.

I have 4 bikes. 3 steel and 1 CF. The CF is the newest, I had to try one, and it's a fine bike. But steel is and will always be my fav. The demand for custom made steel seams to be increasing by leaps and bounds. I see the the kids around my LBS searching out old steel frames for fixies. But to be able to walk in the average LBS and have a nice selection of steel bikes, I don't see it. The marketing forces of the big mfgs are to strong.

I think the popularity is directly proportional to the number of miles per year the rider is in the saddle.

Someone "just looking to get into cycling" and buying a first cheap bike will VERY rarely buy steel. They will buy whatever cheap bike the LBS tells them.

However, I would love to see a poll of what higher mileage cyclists ride. Considering ride quality, durability, dependability, and value... I would venture to say the vast majority of those that ride more than 5000 miles per year do so on steel (assuming they are not a sponsored racer, in which those people would be riding whatever is issued to them).

I have wondered that with the weight of wheels and groups and other parts dropping every year that it may not be too long before a steel bike can be built at the UCI limit and there won't be a "perceived" weight penalty. But then again, most people that ride steel don't have weight in their top few priorities.

Steel is dead. Long live steel.

Just got a custom steel with the coupling. Is there such thing on a CF or AL? Now that's versatility!:thumbsup:

4 steel bikes and one CF...another custom steel on the drawing board

1) Yes...steel frames will be big again in the mainstream market

Let's not forget... us lycra clad dilettantes are NOT the mainstream market. Wally world is the mainstream. And they move plenty of steel at Wally world.

I agree with the comments above to the effect that steel never left and therefore doesn't need to make a "comeback". When I was younger I raced on a variety of frames including steel and aluminum. I'd probably choose something other than steel if I were racing criteriums today, but for fast/strenuous recreational riding, the occasional century and just enjoying riding I love my custom Steelman.

No.

In the same way that piston engined fighter planes will never make a comeback. They may be beautiful and have their enthusiasts, but they will never be used in anger again, because they are inferior in performance to jets.

I don't think mainstream will ever return to steel.

I've had alu and carbon bikes but have slowly wound my way back to 3 all steel bikes: EL-OS, SLX and True Temper. I like how they ride and how they look. And, they each have the names on them of the person that actually made them. What a concept!

Yes, it will. The bike show in Portland is proof of that. The general riding public that picks up on things a few years after the hipsters will embrace, just as they have fixie.

I can't wait to see how huge that show will be when it comes to Austin in 2 years. You heard it here first.

Mainstream manufacturers like Trek, Giant, Specialized, etc. generally make what sells. Right now carbon in king and manufacturing plants in Asia have geared up to make thousands of carbon frames each year. Cycling trends come and go. With the growing popularity of the NHBS and web forum discussions, steel bikes have gained more attention as of late. The industry is watching this trend. If this awareness of steel bikes grows, an opportunistic manufacturer may decide it makes sense to intoduce a lugged steel bicycle. We are allready seeing this happen with Kona's introduction of a lugged steel bicycle this year (Honky Tonk). If Kona sees some success, another manufacturer may decide to "re-introduce" a model from the past or offer up a "new" steel model. It all boils down to whether or not manufacturers think steel bikes will sell. There was a time when carbon was rare, now it spans the market, and there is very little differential between the brands. In order to gain an edge, manufacturers seek ways to differentiate their product offerings. Steel bikes may be a way to do just that.

removed

Custom steel will return in 4-5 years if you put down a deposit now.
LMAO!!!

However, I would love to see a poll of what higher mileage cyclists ride. Considering ride quality, durability, dependability, and value... I would venture to say the vast majority of those that ride more than 5000 miles per year do so on steel (assuming they are not a sponsored racer, in which those people would be riding whatever is issued to them).

Golly, I guess it's sad, then, that all those poor, unfortunate riders of CF frames just aren't as well informed of riders of steel, what with the apparently gods-given ride quality of steel that apparently has nothing to do with design. Jiminy willikers, I'll bet the poor sods riding CF can barely tolerate the one or two thousand miles a year they ride, let alone the tens of thousands that real cycling intelligentsia put on their finely crafted ferrous works of art. And clearly, buying a CF frame shows a demonstrable lack of commitment to riding in general.

Oh, but could all riders be so well informed and so imbued with the true spirit of cycling as those sage riders of steel.....

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

you guys are missing the point; the problem with steel is that it can't be both stiff AND compliant. If you can't do that, you'll never get a good review in Bicycling, Velonews, Road Bike Action, the UK rags, etc. and your sales will go down the drain...you also can't magically feel every watt converted into forward motion, the road vibration muted like a lightly plucked violin, or a bottom bracket as wide as your head challenging your manhood to make it suffer under your wrath...

No. There are too many choices for any material to corner the market as steel once did.

On a serious note I could ride steel. Look at what Lynskey put together playing with some True Temper steel. Could ride this? Hell yes!

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj10/Juanmoretime/GreenSteelBike1.jpg

And they move plenty of steel at Wally world.

do they? I havent been in a wal-mart in a couple of years but I thought they had mostly aluminum framed bikes.
on the topic of steel, I noticed this at chucks if anyone's looking for something with lugs, on the cheap side.
<img src="http://www.chucksbikes.com/store/big_fr098-2.jpg">
http://www.chucksbikes.com/store/fr098.htm

Steel is dead in the mass market, forever. So are buggy whips, ice boxes and hand cranked washing machines....and polyester leisure suits (when they come back they will be artificial diamond encrusted microfiber with flexible displays woven in so you can have a video of John Travolta playing on it as you walk down the street doing your own imitation of the sexiest man in the world from the kids in the hall skit).

That bike would ride terrible......but only 'cause of the flat rear tire. The other boys in Chattanooga welded up one hell of an impressive 953 frame for as a proto for one of their brands a year or two ago. It was beautiful but didn't make the final cut, wish it had. That proto is my size and gatherin' dust...I'd like to make it my future ex-bike.

Golly, I guess it's sad, then, that all those poor, unfortunate riders of CF frames just aren't as well informed of riders of steel, what with the apparently gods-given ride quality of steel that apparently has nothing to do with design. Jiminy willikers, I'll bet the poor sods riding CF can barely tolerate the one or two thousand miles a year they ride, let alone the tens of thousands that real cycling intelligentsia put on their finely crafted ferrous works of art. And clearly, buying a CF frame shows a demonstrable lack of commitment to riding in general.

Oh, but could all riders be so well informed and so imbued with the true spirit of cycling as those sage riders of steel.....

:rolleyes: .....

dude, don't hate the player, hate the game.

Have you ever seen a carbon randonneur bike? or one with racks/fenders?

what % of regular commuters do so on carbon?

anyone tow there kids/trailer with a carbon bike?


I am not saying that steel is some infallible material... I am not saying carbon sucks. The only thing I said was that I am of the opinion that most high mileage riders (who are not racers) ride steel for whatever reason.

Just for curiosity sake I am going to create a poll to see if I am crazy or not. http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=121860

No.

In the same way that piston engined fighter planes will never make a comeback. They may be beautiful and have their enthusiasts, but they will never be used in anger again, because they are inferior in performance to jets.


Well, so not to shoot holes in your argument :D , but the piston engine vs jet engine argument isn't materials but power plant. It was a materials question, a very big difference.

Until recently the WWII planes were made with the same materials as the current fighter planes. So I guess aluminum is an outdated material sense WWII planes used it? I don't think so.

When you find a material that works well, there is no reason to replace it for the sake of replacing it. Steel does some things very well. CF and Al have their own qualities that may lend themselves to what you need, so they may meet your needs better than steel, depending on what it is you need in a bike.

I'm an engineer that works with ride quality every day. I used steel and aluminum where they are appropriate. They each have very different properties that you can take advantage of.

Steel has a lower modulus than aluminum so it does a good job of not transmitting vibrations. It also is much better at fatigue. Aluminum with it's higher modulus is good if you need a very stiff part and the strength is high enough that fatigue is not an issue.

Also if you want to use the free market as an indicator to what material is better, what is the most expensive frame material out there?

So, the answer isn't quiet as simple as the bicycle magazines have you believe.:thumbsup:

dude, don't hate the player, hate the game.

Have you ever seen a carbon randonneur bike? or one with racks/fenders?

I'm not a hater. I just don't subscribe to the Steel is Real religion.

Who says a high mileage rider has to have panniers or racks and fenders? That's a bad assumption, too.

I see loads o' folks 'round here putting lots o' miles on their CF bikes.

Maybe you just think that high mileage riders have to ride something special, some predetermined type of bike that fits a stereotype?

And, yes, I've seen racks and fenders on CF bikes, and, yes, I've seen people pulling their kids with CF bikes. So?

with a limited budget steel provides
a) great comfort/ road feel / bike feedback (yeah, yeah, yeah, tell us it is all in our heads) how come most of us have owned bikes of other materials and returned to our ferrous friends
b) price of a custom in many cases cheaper than off-the-shelf of other materials
c) longevity
d) history
at a slight weight penalty (most of which we all equal or surpass in excess body fat)

sadly marketing feeds into the consumers that

a) they are not average
b) they are not recreational
c) they don't have a limited budget
d) they need a new bike every 2 years


steel bikes are like pantyhose that don't run

and lastly lugs are teh sexy

I'm not a hater. I just don't subscribe to the Steel is Real religion.

Who says a high mileage rider has to have panniers or racks and fenders? That's a bad assumption, too.

I see loads o' folks 'round here putting lots o' miles on their CF bikes.

Maybe you just think that high mileage riders have to ride something special, some predetermined type of bike that fits a stereotype?

And, yes, I've seen racks and fenders on CF bikes, and, yes, I've seen people pulling their kids with CF bikes. So?

The only assumption I made was that most higher mileage riders do so on steel. If you take a look at the poll I created you will see that is a fairly accurate assumption.

Truth be told... my primary ride is a Carrera that is not entirely steel, so I am not drinking some special Kool-Aid. I love this bike (even more than my steel bikes) primarily because of the fit and ride. It is a pretty good looking bike IMHO, so that doesn't suck either.

Also, I didn't vote because I don't get 5000 miles per year. So all my posts have not been some self serving propaganda.... just my personal observation.

up until the last couple of decades, steel was the major material and now there are 4 to choose from. so no, steel will never be as "popular" as it once was, given that the pie is now sliced 4 ways. but steel will always be popular with customs as well as midrange/utilitarian/niche/whatever you want to call it framesets. look at surly, soma, gunnar and the like

The only assumption I made was that most higher mileage riders do so on steel. If you take a look at the poll I created you will see that is a fairly accurate assumption.

Well, whether or not your poll is representative of "high mileage cyclists" is debatable. I'd say the poll hardly qualifies as a random sampling, and with such a small pool of results, I'd hesitate to draw any conclusions from it.

The entire "Will X material ever come back?" seems pretty irrelvant and/or pointless. Only with a very myopic view can anyone say that steel ever went away. What has happened, as others have suggested, is that there are more choices, now. I don't mean material choices, but rather I mean bike design choices. Material is a very minor factor in bike performance. Design, though, is draws interest, sells the bike, and gives the bike its performance characteristics.

Of course, with all the choices has come religious material bias. One group think CF is fragile and ephemeral, at best. You can pile riders and frame makers into that group. Likewise, there's a group that thinks that all steel bikes must weigh 23+ lbs, have racks and fenders, and struggle to go 14mph. The reasons for such bias are as wide and varied as people: sheer ignorance, resistance to change, insecurity about their purchases, yada yada yada.

Frankly, I could care less what a bike's made of. Having owned, with exception of magnesium, one example of each frame material...er, in the form of a frame.....I can say that none of the materials was outstanding in any way. Sure the Waterford was pretty, but it didn't do anything better than the much cheaper Schwinn 974.

Steel will not be back, good riddance. I've owned CF, Ti and Steel. Steel rusts, its flexy, heavy and doesnt ride as well as the other two, IMO. I think it will fill a niche market, but thats it.

Technology is firmly driving this area so as much as some like steel, the masses will not likely see it the same way. Add in the marketing depts, I doubt it further.

I do like lugs and when I see some of these: http://www.columbinecycle.com/pages/index001.html.

Ti is the new steel.

Unfortunate that this thread has just become a general steel vs. other materials slanging match and no-one is talking about the properties of this new 953 stuff or the potential for the development of other hi-tech steel alloys in the future. Does anyone have any experience of 953? If it doesn't rust and is significantly lighter than other steel tubing, that's quite exciting. But maybe production costs (difficulty of working with it) would rule out it taking over the market, just like Ti, and so it will always be a high-end niche thing? Also I've heard that the lighter gauge 953 is so thin that denting could be an issue. Sounds like speculation though.

I guess that whatever the theoretical advantages of any material, you are always going to get better performance for your money from the material that is easiest to mass produce frames out of and for which the industry is set up. Right now that's carbon, but that doesn't mean that if you are prepared to spend more you can't get something better or more suited to your personal requirements made out of something else.

Unfortunate that this thread has just become a general steel vs. other materials slanging match and no-one is talking about the properties of this new 953 stuff or the potential for the development of other hi-tech steel alloys in the future. Does anyone have any experience of 953? If it doesn't rust and is significantly lighter than other steel tubing, that's quite exciting. But maybe production costs (difficulty of working with it) would rule out it taking over the market, just like Ti, and so it will always be a high-end niche thing? Also I've heard that the lighter gauge 953 is so thin that denting could be an issue. Sounds like speculation though.


Forget the hype about 'super steel alloys' and 953, the only big deal about 953 is that one does not need to bother painting it...if weight is such an issue I would suggest steel may not be the most sensible option for a frame anyway.

No steel is really that different from another, they all have roughtly the same Young's modulus, and yield strengths...compared to radically different materials such as aluminium or titanium.

Ironically, steel - whilst famed for its smooth ride - is the stiffest material compared to aluminium and titanium! Aluminium frames just often feel stiffer due to the oversized tubing increasing the effective stiffness!

Carbon fibre has changed the game because it ebables frame builders to move beyond the traditional comfort vs stiffness trade-off associated with metal frames. One cannot have a steel frame which is both stiff and comfortable.

Ironically, steel - whilst famed for its smooth ride - is the stiffest material compared to aluminium and titanium! Aluminium frames just often feel stiffer due to the oversized tubing increasing the effective stiffness!

Yes, but it's the strength of steel that determines how thin the tubes can be and thus its effective stiffness when used for a frame. Aluminium tubes in general can't be that thin.

If 953 doesn't rust that seems like a big deal to me.

I take the point about the potential with carbon to theorectically be able to vary the stiffness laterally and horizontally depending on how the fibers are laid. I wonder how effective this is in practice though (beyond the hype) and how much difference it makes compared with what you can do just by varying the shape of the tube section. The new generation Ti frames seem to be achieving a lot with ovalised tubing etc. Any reason why this couldn't be done with hi tech steel in the future?

953 Stainless the hot ticket at Independent Fabracation. Steel bike are selling fast. To answer the question I think its more that the carbon fever has peaked. People should look at the bike and how it fits the needs they have. 953 fits the bill for those wanting a great riding performence frame at a good weight that will not rust (something the new thin wall steels have an issue with). FYI its crap that you can't tune a steel frame to fit specific peoples needs. Everyone that rides my 953 is amazed at how such a stiff ride can be so comfortable at the same time with regards to dealing with bad road surfaces.

All of this wasted dialog on materials. What matters is how the frame is made and for whom. If you can be happy with a frame made for anyone, pick whatever material blows your skirt up. When it comes to designing a frame, the stock list of available tubing (materials) and the skill of the builder is what matters, unless your priorities are impressing your riding buddies. Mass manufactures must design frames for worse case scenarios and have cookie cutter geometries to please the vast majority of riders. This is where steel really shines. The stock lists are huge. The builders with years of experience and know the almost limitless offerings of tube gauges and shapes can make a frame to suit the individual. If you can be happy with "off the rack" products then steel has less to offer. If after spending enough time on your bike you can identify what you want, custom builders using steel will have more tools to work with to make your dream bike. The new corrosion resistant steels suffer from a limited stock list at this time, and hopefully in the future, they will give constructors the options they need to build frames for the individual and not the masses.

All of this wasted dialog on materials. What matters is how the frame is made and for whom. If you can be happy with a frame made for anyone, pick whatever material blows your skirt up. When it comes to designing a frame, the stock list of available tubing (materials) and the skill of the builder is what matters, unless your priorities are impressing your riding buddies. Mass manufactures must design frames for worse case scenarios and have cookie cutter geometries to please the vast majority of riders. This is where steel really shines. The stock lists are huge. The builders with years of experience and know the almost limitless offerings of tube gauges and shapes can make a frame to suit the individual. If you can be happy with "off the rack" products then steel has less to offer. If after spending enough time on your bike you can identify what you want, custom builders using steel will have more tools to work with to make your dream bike. The new corrosion resistant steels suffer from a limited stock list at this time, and hopefully in the future, they will give constructors the options they need to build frames for the individual and not the masses.
Limited stock is not much of an issue anymore for 953. Production is still slow however

they each have the names on them of the person that actually made them. What a concept!


An old bass teacher of mine, having recently purchased a custom made instrument built by luthier Albey Balgochian that featured Albey's large mother-of-pearl "A" logo on the headstock, said "for the amount of money I paid for this it should have my initials on it!"

One cannot have a steel frame which is both stiff and comfortable.

What a load of crap.

I have 4 steel bikes that refute that statement.

Just because you have never had one doesn't make it so.

Len

What a load of crap.

I have 4 steel bikes that put that refut that statement.

Just because you have never had one doesn't make it so.

Len

+1. Same here...

+1. Same here...

mmmmmmmmmxl

Ironically, steel - whilst famed for its smooth ride - is the stiffest material compared to aluminium and titanium! Aluminium frames just often feel stiffer due to the oversized tubing increasing the effective stiffness!

Which is why it's SO COMPLETELY POINTLESS to discuss any material's properties out of context of its application! Is aluminum stiffer than steel? WHO GIVES A FCUK? The germane question is "Will this bike feel stiffer than that bike?" Plenty of evidence suggests there's no direct correlation between a material's properties and the ride feel of a bike whose frame is made from that material.


One cannot have a steel frame which is both stiff and comfortable.

I would call bullshit but I'm laughing too hard.

mmmmmmmmmxl

Nice to see that Rydster doesn't mind posting odd bits like this in other forums. Hate to think he saved it all for PO.

Riding one stiff comfortable...Carl Strong steel bike. You ask for it...he makes it, go figure.

Just ordered up another steel frame, made from columbus sprit. No i'm not rich, deals are out there if you look a while. I am retiring a trek 5500 from 1997 or 1998. It has been a wonderful bike but is showing its age.
I've owned everything but Ti in a 19 year carreer of racing and managing/wrenching in bike shops, i learned a long time ago to never bad mouth any particular bike. Why, because they all do something very well, and other things maybe not as well. However when i was really racing i had a aluminum bike for 40 mile or less crits, and a steel frame for longer road races. For Cyclo cross it is a 653 steel frame. Which i now use for communting and light touring.
All in all i still love carbon, however i will say some CF bikes are just ugly to look at, not all but some. Steel has a certain sexyness that the thin tubes convey.
I recently had the VP of performance in my shop and we had a nice time talking bikes. When asked what i rode in that day i showed him my Surley 653 cross bike. He looked at it and looked at me and with a stright face asked why every shop guy he meets always rides a steel frame. LOL

What a load of crap.

I have 4 steel bikes that refute that statement.

Just because you have never had one doesn't make it so.

Len

I see you point, and I may have overstated, but I would add that comfort can be influenced by numerous other factors such as geometry, wheels, seat post, seat etc.

My point is that steel - being an isotropic material - cannot as a tubular be both stiff (for power transfer) and flexible (for comfort) at the same time. The only way to get around the trade off is to use shaped tubes, allowing vertical and lateral stiffness to be different.

Carbon fiber is potentially an anisotropic material/tubular giving the frame designer loads of options.

Steel Frames...Will they comeback? Yes or No

Why? Did they leave and go someplace? Up until 4 years ago, the only road bikes I had were steel. Steel will always have it's share of the marketplace. Like other people have said, "there is something about steel" and it's up to the builder to make people drool over it. There are 4 different steel frames I can think of off the top of my head that I would buy over any high tech carbon frame if I had the money.

The techno geeks will always be into whatever fab material is trendy at the moment. They will look down and sneer at it. They forget that it's not the bike, it's the person on the bike.

I see you point, and I may have overstated, but I would add that comfort can be influenced by numerous other factors such as geometry, wheels, seat post, seat etc.

My point is that steel - being an isotropic material - cannot as a tubular be both stiff (for power transfer) and flexible (for comfort) at the same time. The only way to get around the trade off is to use shaped tubes, allowing vertical and lateral stiffness to be different.

Carbon fiber is potentially an anisotropic material/tubular giving the frame designer loads of options.

It's done with carbon by shaping tubes and aligning material...what is the difference, both are material manipulations by the designers.?

I don't care how the tubes are shaped.

Both materials can be made stiff & comfortable or noodly....it's all about the design.

Len

I just ordered a steel LeMond Sarthe that looks hot and rides as sweetly as any of the carbon bikes I demo'd. The LBS not only has a few steel (and Alu, and Ti, and carbon...) around, but he even suggested I look at it, which I wasn't inclined to do when I walked in. Steel wasn't even on my list of considered materials. So I don't think that good bike shops/salesfolks will automatically assist their customers' predjudices against a technology that some see as passé. Likewise, I don't believe that informed and discerning riders will care so intently about the material per se, but rather the feel, ride, handling, etc.

Having owned an rode every material except Mg and Bamboo, the "carbon era" is here for good. Carbon from the mid to high end, Al on the low end will dominate from here on out.

Ti and Steel will be niche use materials, remaining strong in the custom and specialist areas. While neither will be "coming back", nor will they be departing their traditional strongholds.

However, if you expect to see regular brands at your IBD in steel, best get in your Delorian and fire up the flux capacitor. But if you want a steel or Ti bike, plenty of people will be around to take or money (or deposit).

Frankly, I could care less what a bike's made of. Having owned, with exception of magnesium, one example of each frame material...er, in the form of a frame.....I can say that none of the materials was outstanding in any way. Sure the Waterford was pretty, but it didn't do anything better than the much cheaper Schwinn 974.



You had a Bamboo frame????? How did it ride out of curiosity???:confused:

It seems I have opened up a real can of worms with my post.
In a nutshell, I think all frame materials can do something really special. There is no perfect bike.

I believe it is totally up to the builder using many variables to develop a sweet machine for a specific purpose.

It could be coincidence, but every good steel bike I have owned allows me to feel the texture of the road while absorbing the really hard hits that can beat me up. My carbon frames mute the small stuff and then "bottoms out" on the hard hits.

My 01 Pinarello Opera is hot.
I'm hot cause I'm fly, fly
You ain't cause you're not
This is why
This is why
This is why I'm hot
This is why I'm hot

Cheers to the steel/ carbon rear Carrera owner.

I have a CF trek, 2 alum E5 - Alum TT bike - steel single speed, and a Steel cx

i like the trek the most

CF is expensive

I posted earlier that I think the question is moot. True, but what I should have said is the question is irrelevant. Why, well think of the basics. We ride BI-CYCLES. That's right, 'bi' as in two. Two what? WHEELS. The frame is roughly the equivalent of a computer motherboard, linking disparate components and offering a physical platform ensuring those parts maintain their position relative to each other (remember I did say roughly). It's also the part that enables the body to sit atop those revolving WHEELS and thus transform them into a means of conveyance. A good frame ensures consistent tracking for the wheels. Primary function guys. Now how many of you are riding on steel rims? If not, why not? Yup, all that revolving weight is heavy and that's where weight counts most.
Sure, get misty eyed about your steel steeds, obsess about ride quality or frame weight or rant on about how carbon is just so technologically advanced etc. It's all good (self) entertainment - a big part of why we post on forums. But lets not kid ourselves about some simple truths.

You had a Bamboo frame????? How did it ride out of curiosity???:confused:

Laterally compliant, while vertically quasi-planar, yet stiff.

Laterally compliant, while vertically quasi-planar, yet stiff.


Did it catch on fire.......did you have Panda Bear's chasing you????:eek: :confused:

Th questions that HandsomeRob asked are worth considering. When I bought my son's Burley trailer a couple of years ago, I had to buy a bike as well. It turns out that carbon fiber frames and bikes with carbon rears can't handle the stress of a bike trailer and are prone to failure. Luckily, I was purchasing my trailer from the LBS that sold me my Felt F3C. They remebered my bike and informed me that towing a trailer on a carbon frame bike was a recipe for disaster. It was either steel or aluminum. Ti can do it but who wants to put that type of stress on such an expensive frame?

We have about a dozen models with steel frames
ranging from 4130 to 853
and we are adding cyclo cross and another touring

we have offered steel right next to aluminum & CF for years

steel sells; but it does not enjoy anywhere near the following of aluminum or CF
and we already have more interest in Ti at around $2000 than we do in steel at around $1000

I love steel
We will not give up on it
However, it is highly unlikely to become main stream again

I rode my steel Smoothie yesterday in the cold rain and snow. It went zoom without the first complaint. I believe steel feels better and transfers power more efficiently. I work on the multi material bikes I ride. I glide on my steels. The more riding you do the more you appreciate steel. As mentioned earlier in the forum most LBS's don't have steel so they push the products they do have.

i'd like to see steel make a come back just so the price goes down again. frame prices have risen quite a bit. my next ride will probably be a mix of carbon and steel, but we'll see.

My first real road bike was a steal schwinn I bought from a flea market, I loved that bike, I own an E-5 s-works, and I am currently looking for a steal bike to be my everyday bike, even though I plan to convert it to a fixed gear. I have only been riding for about 3 years. I don't think it will ever really make a comeback except for small companies, and fixed gear bikes..... but what do I know