http://www.jacksonholestartrib.com/articles/2008/02/21/news/wyoming/2dbfa4a4fe948522872573f40006b4e3.txt

By JOAN BARRON
Star-Tribune capital bureau
Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:31 AM MST

CHEYENNE -- The Wyoming attorney general's office will be notified of illegal automated phone calls on behalf of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama.

Peggy Nighswonger, administrator of the elections division of the secretary of state's office, said she received one e-mail complaint about the automated campaign phone calls. The e-mail complained said the call on Friday evening featured Michelle Obama, wife of the candidate, asking for support in the upcoming state Democratic caucuses.

Nighswonger, who said she also received one of the automated calls at home, noted that Monday, Presidents' Day, was a state holiday, which could account for the absence of more complaints.

"We will probably write to the state and national Democratic Party and advise them that it is not allowable in Wyoming," Nighswonger said.

Shannon Gibson of the Obama campaign said the illegal phone calls were unintentional.

"We took them down as quickly as possible," Gibson said. "And in total they ran for about an hour."

State law prohibits calls that combine automated dialing devices with recorded messages. The crime is a misdemeanor and carries a maximum sentence of six months in jail and a $750 fine.

EDIT: Sorry, I left out the link and the law quote in my original post.

I received one of these calls. Normally, when caller ID shows that the caller is a toll-free number I don't answer. This time I did, and it was a recorded voice that told me to press 1 for an important announcement about Barak Obama. My wife and I had, coincidentally, been talking about him and she told me she would vote for him. (Not that it matters, as Wyoming is the most Republican state in the union. Ghengis Khan could be the Republican nominee and he would still win all three electoral votes. But I digress....)
So I pushed "1" and relayed to her that it was Michelle.

"Michelle who?"

"Why, Michelle Obama! She wants me to support her husband!"

So I Iistened to Michelle tell me how important it was to support Barak at the upcoming Democrat meetings. (I'm not a registered Democrat, and neither is my wife, so I'm not sure why we got the call) Michelle then told me that I should stay on the line for more info on how I could help. I did, for a minute, then decided there was no point in extending the one-way conversation.

This is purely an inflammatory post, with a baited tag line. I did not complain to the authorities. I hung up, laughed about it, and went about my business. I didn't even know it was illegal. Just thought it was interesting.

I received one of these calls. Normally, when caller ID shows that the caller is a toll-free number I don't answer. This time I did, and it was a recorded voice that told me to press 1 for an important announcement about Barak Obama. My wife and I had, coincidentally, been talking about him and she told me she would vote for him. (Not that it matters, as Wyoming is the most Republican state in the union. Ghengis Khan could be the Republican nominee and he would still win all three electoral votes. But I digress....)
So I pushed "1" and relayed to her that it was Michelle.

"Michelle who?"

"Why, Michelle Obama! She wants me to support her husband!"

So I Iistened to Michelle tell me how important it was to support Barak at the upcoming Democrat meetings. (I'm not a registered Democrat, and neither is my wife, so I'm not sure why we got the call) Michelle then told me that I should stay on the line for more info on how I could help. I did, for a minute, then decided there was no point in extending the one-way conversation.

This is purely an inflammatory post, with a baited tag line. I did not complain to the authorities. I hung up, laughed about it, and went about my business. I didn't even know it was illegal. Just thought it was interesting.


I'm just curious...sometimes state campaigning centers are run by semi-trained volunteers...and things like this are the result...

I didn't even know it was illegal. Just thought it was interesting.

The bummer of the story that you quoted is that we still don't know why it's illegal. Because of a peculiar law regarding campaigning in WY? I got plenty of robocalls in NV last month...

I'm just curious...sometimes state campaigning centers are run by semi-trained volunteers...and things like this are the result...

I heard he had another call trying to get people to convert to Islam and burn flags. :rolleyes:

This is purely an inflammatory post, with a baited tag line.

Yeah, left this part out:

"Shannon Gibson of the Obama campaign said the illegal phone calls were unintentional.

"We took them down as quickly as possible,” Gibson said. “And in total they ran for about an hour.”"

Yeah, left this part out:

"Shannon Gibson of the Obama campaign said the illegal phone calls were unintentional.

"We took them down as quickly as possible,” Gibson said. “And in total they ran for about an hour.”"

he almost had me duped...:rolleyes:
glad you were able to actually dig up the entire report, not just the part that fit his agenda. thanks, hoo. :thumbsup:

Yeah, left this part out:

"Shannon Gibson of the Obama campaign said the illegal phone calls were unintentional.

"We took them down as quickly as possible,” Gibson said. “And in total they ran for about an hour.”"

After the bank robbers were caught, they said "We didn't know robbing banks was illegal. And all we got was $20. Nobody was hurt, were they?"

How could the calls have been unintentional? Don't they have to abide by the "Do not call" lists? (I don't know if that's so or not.) Nevertheless, you would think someone would have checked out the law before making the call.

Its a misdemeanor. Its not a big deal in the scope of things. But his campaign, and by extension Obama, broke the law, and they admit it. Unintentional, but broke it nonetheless.

What's that old saying? "Ignorance of the law is no excuse"?

I heard he had another call trying to get people to convert to Islam and burn flags. :rolleyes:

regarding his request to wear red polo shirts under Somali traditional garments...

Round up a posse.

After the bank robbers were caught, they said "We didn't know robbing banks was illegal. And all we got was $20. Nobody was hurt, were they?"

How could the calls have been unintentional? Don't they have to abide by the "Do not call" lists? (I don't know if that's so or not.) Nevertheless, you would think someone would have checked out the law before making the call.

Its a misdemeanor. Its not a big deal in the scope of things. But his campaign, and by extension Obama, broke the law, and they admit it. Unintentional, but broke it nonetheless.

What's that old saying? "Ignorance of the law is no excuse"?

"Do Not Call" lists are for telemarketers...nonprofit and campaign solicitations, voluntary surveys, etc. are not covered under that umbrella...(i.e...they can call you ALL DAY LONG)

sounds like you're a law man..

"Do Not Call" lists are for telemarketers...nonprofit and campaign solicitations, voluntary surveys, etc. are not covered under that umbrella...(i.e...they can call you ALL DAY LONG)
sounds like you're a law man..

Not if its illegal.

At what point is breaking the law "too much"? An hour? Two hours? One call? A hundred?

"Do Not Call" lists are for telemarketers...nonprofit and campaign solicitations, voluntary surveys, etc. are not covered under that umbrella...(i.e...they can call you ALL DAY LONG)

sounds like you're a law man..

I think it's a state law against "automated" calls--not just telemarketing.

After the bank robbers were caught, they said "We didn't know robbing banks was illegal. And all we got was $20. Nobody was hurt, were they?"

How could the calls have been unintentional? Don't they have to abide by the "Do not call" lists? (I don't know if that's so or not.) Nevertheless, you would think someone would have checked out the law before making the call.

Its a misdemeanor. Its not a big deal in the scope of things. But his campaign, and by extension Obama, broke the law, and they admit it. Unintentional, but broke it nonetheless.

What's that old saying? "Ignorance of the law is no excuse"?


Most laws against telemarketers have EXPLICIT exemptions for political campaigns and political speech. I would guess that is how it could be unintentional.

Have there been any challenges to the WY law on this issue? Because it seems like a restriction on political speech designed to stop low resource organizations from communicating. Robocalls are cheaper than live people, after all.

I think it's a state law against "automated" calls--not just telemarketing.

It is.

Now that I think about it a little more, I really have to question a couple things:

1. The lack of preparation by the Obama campaign to find out what the law says and then to abide by it;

2. The shoulder-shrugging done by those who responded to the post. Not that Obama should go to jail or anything, but doesn't it concern anyone that his campaign did, in fact, break the law?

I know that there are bigger things to think about, and I should not be spending my work time posting about this, but a little thoughtful analysis shows at the very least ignorance of the law by a man who wants to be the chief enforcer of the law, or at most a conscious disregard of the law.

Please - no Bush comparisons. This is not about him. Its about Obama, and I would like to know how those who support him can defend this action.

Oh - she's just a little bit pregnant.

Oh - he broke the law just a little bit.

2. The shoulder-shrugging done by those who responded to the post. Not that Obama should go to jail or anything, but doesn't it concern anyone that his campaign did, in fact, break the law?

Sheesh, I was just wondering WTF the law said. Text below (my emphasis added for the ADD among us). Long and short is no robocalls in WY, period. (You're welcome $$!).

6-6-104. Unlawful automated telephone solicitation; exceptions; penalties.


(a) No person shall use an automated telephone system or device for the selection and dialing of telephone numbers and playing of recorded messages if a message is completed to the dialed number, for purposes of:


(i) Offering any goods or services for sale;


(ii) Conveying information on goods or services in soliciting sales or purchases;


(iii) Soliciting information;


(iv) Gathering data and statistics; or


(v) Promoting or any other use related to a political campaign.


(b) This section shall not prohibit the use of an automated telephone system or device described under subsection (a) of this section for purposes of informing purchasers of the receipt, availability or delivery of goods or services, any delay or other pertinent information on the status of any purchased goods or services or responding to an inquiry initiated by any person, or the use of an automated telephone dialing system as authorized by W.S. 40-12-303.


(c) Any person violating subsection (a) of this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than six (6) months, a fine of not more than seven hundred fifty dollars ($750.00), or both.

You haven't broken the law until you've been convicted in a court of law. Obama didn't place the calls, Shannon Gibson did.

Most laws against telemarketers have EXPLICIT exemptions for political campaigns and political speech. I would guess that is how it could be unintentional.

Have there been any challenges to the WY law on this issue? Because it seems like a restriction on political speech designed to stop low resource organizations from communicating. Robocalls are cheaper than live people, after all.

I don't know. In fact, I don't any more aobut the law than has been posted here. I made the post strictly for entertainment value.

I agree with your reasoning. I think the argument could be made that it does violate 1st amendment rights. Regardless, the law is as it is, and Obama, through his campaign, broke it. Granted, he did not place the calls, but isn't he ultimately responsible?

Most laws against telemarketers have EXPLICIT exemptions for political campaigns and political speech. I would guess that is how it could be unintentional.

Have there been any challenges to the WY law on this issue? Because it seems like a restriction on political speech designed to stop low resource organizations from communicating. Robocalls are cheaper than live people, after all.


That's a good question. I used the Google to access a series of tubes and came up with:
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2006/rpt/2006-R-0717.htm

The long and short is that six states prohibit robo calls even for political purposes and in three states the law was upheld as constitutional. Go figure. :confused:

/ and it does seem kind of sloppy to not check on the state law if you want to use the machines to place calls.

You haven't broken the law until you've been convicted in a court of law. Obama didn't place the calls, Shannon Gibson did.

Gold star for Mike Biker. I expect Moneyman to apolobize to all Obama fanatics for falsely accusing Obama of breaking the Law. our Saviour remains undefiled!

You haven't broken the law until you've been convicted in a court of law. Obama didn't place the calls, Shannon Gibson did.

So if you rob a bank and don't get caught, you haven't broken the law?

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it still make a sound?

My guess is that you posted that without really thinking it through.

I don't know. In fact, I don't any more aobut the law than has been posted here. I made the post strictly for entertainment value.

I agree with your reasoning. I think the argument could be made that it does violate 1st amendment rights. Regardless, the law is as it is, and Obama, through his campaign, broke it. Granted, he did not place the calls, but isn't he ultimately responsible?

Yup...I'd say so. Personally, this transgression seems very minor though. Not much to get upset about.

That's a good question. I used the Google to access a series of tubes and came up with:
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2006/rpt/2006-R-0717.htm

The long and short is that six states prohibit robo calls even for political purposes and in three states the law was upheld as constitutional. Go figure. :confused:

/ and it does seem kind of sloppy to not check on the state law if you want to use the machines to place calls.

I'm still not sure that the statute is constitutional. I just found and read some of the decisions cited in the link you posted. The cases largely have been decided on procedural and statutory grounds -- the courts seem to be waiting for another day to attack the statutes on constitutional grounds.

I think he should be shot and the family required to pay for the bullet.

So if you rob a bank and don't get caught, you haven't broken the law?

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it still make a sound?

My guess is that you posted that without really thinking it through.

The Telephone Consumer Protection Act and related state statutes have lots of traps for the unwary and lots of exceptions, too. I represented a client last year in civil litigation over the application of the Maryland TCPA. I won both at the trial court and the appellate level. But, I learned a lot about an area of the law that applies to many but of which few are aware.

A few days ago, there was a post about the Supreme Court, pre-emption of state law by federal law and state's rights. The situation that the Obama campaign faced is a good example of why national busineses (and probably campaigns too) like federal laws that pre-empt state laws. There are states that have small variations in their laws that a national actor can violate inadvertently. Well developed national businesses spend a lot of money on legal fees to avoid things like this. My guess is that the Obama campaign has national counsel that look at things like this, but given the quick pace of campaigns and the fact that a particular state is in focus only for a week or two, they missed this quirk of Wyoming law.

I actually come away from your post with a positive view of the Obama campaign. It appears to have made a mistake, but when it was informed of it, the campaign acted quickly to correct it.

It is.

Now that I think about it a little more, I really have to question a couple things:

1. The lack of preparation by the Obama campaign to find out what the law says and then to abide by it;

2. The shoulder-shrugging done by those who responded to the post. Not that Obama should go to jail or anything, but doesn't it concern anyone that his campaign did, in fact, break the law?

I know that there are bigger things to think about, and I should not be spending my work time posting about this, but a little thoughtful analysis shows at the very least ignorance of the law by a man who wants to be the chief enforcer of the law, or at most a conscious disregard of the law.

Please - no Bush comparisons. This is not about him. Its about Obama, and I would like to know how those who support him can defend this action.

Oh - she's just a little bit pregnant.

Oh - he broke the law just a little bit.

he did not do it personally..I highly doubt he turned on the automated phone system himself...he, personally, did NOT break the law....a member of his campaign may have...but don't get the two confused.

he did not do it personally..I highly doubt he turned on the automated phone system himself...he, personally, did NOT break the law....a member of his campaign may have...but don't get the two confused.

If that were the case, Bush would've been in jail many times.

So if you rob a bank and don't get caught, you haven't broken the law?

If you do rob a bank and you do get caught, you still get to have a trial with the presumption of innocence.

I'm still wondering why this is a big deal? Who is out what? And like what was said, the campign was informed, they quit and admitted the mistake. Nice reaction, I'd say.

I'm still not sure that the statute is constitutional. I just found and read some of the decisions cited in the link you posted. The cases largely have been decided on procedural and statutory grounds -- the courts seem to be waiting for another day to attack the statutes on constitutional grounds.


I didn't have time to check the decisions so I may have been hasty in using the term "constitutional". :blush2:

So if you rob a bank and don't get caught, you haven't broken the law?

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it still make a sound?

My guess is that you posted that without really thinking it through.


I thought that was how the system worked now.

Lying to investigators, Senate and/or grand jury, wiretapping, waterboarding, secret rendition etc. are not a crimes until convicted. Standard Republican mantra. What's wrong with that?

So if you rob a bank and don't get caught, you haven't broken the law?

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it still make a sound?

My guess is that you posted that without really thinking it through.

My guess is you didn't read and think. As MikeBiker pointed out, Obama did not make the calls.

If that were the case, Bush would've been in jail many times.
he would have just pardoned himself or recused the sentence...
Bush has been quite good at letting other people take the fall for his policies...

The application of that state law to campaign calls would likely not survive First Amendment scrutiny. Not that I favor automated calling for ANY reason ....

The application of that state law to campaign calls would likely not survive First Amendment scrutiny. Not that I favor automated calling for ANY reason ....

I guess not but you would have to wonder about how smart it was for campaign managers to call folks who have let it be known they don't want calls. Might create a backlash of resentment among the voters.

The application of that state law to campaign calls would likely not survive First Amendment scrutiny. Not that I favor automated calling for ANY reason ....

In Brazil during political campaigns they have airplanes flying overhead with loudspeakers thundering down the candidates message.

In the U.S.A. would the First Amendment protect the use of these airplanes at 2:00 am? I think not. Does the First amendment protect use of intrusive, automated phone calls? I think not.

In Brazil during political campaigns they have airplanes flying overhead with loudspeakers thundering down the candidates message.

In the U.S.A. would the First Amendment protect the use of these airplanes at 2:00 am? I think not. Does the First amendment protect use of intrusive, automated phone calls? I think not.

Everyone is really missing the real point, which is that NO ONE likes getting these calls. Forget about first amendment issues--these calls piss people off, which is not what they are supposed to do! I won't vote for any idiot who uses an automated machine to call my house. I would love to hear from someone who actually believes that automated calls provoke any reaction from the recipients other than neutral or negative.

Everyone is really missing the real point, which is that NO ONE likes getting these calls. Forget about first amendment issues--these calls piss people off, which is not what they are supposed to do! I won't vote for any idiot who uses an automated machine to call my house. I would love to hear from someone who actually believes that automated calls provoke any reaction from the recipients other than neutral or negative.

original point was to smear Obama by saying he, personally, broke the law....when in reality and truth, Obama, personally did not.

yes, all unsolicited phone calls are annoying...worse when they find your cell. number and charge off your minutes...Do Not Call is the best we currently have so sign up and enjoy the quiet evenings at home! :thumbsup:

man, the pubs are at DefCon Loser...

Obama made illegal phone calls and didn't put his hand over his heart during the anthem...oh, the horror!

amazing that anyone would have the temerity to try to make a case of these trivialities when the current administration has committed overtly criminal acts that have cost thousands of lives and trillions of dollars.

get real...soon.

Has everybody lost their sense of humor? Silly moneyman, silly, silly. :)

This will probably amount to one of those campaign fines you read about 2 years after the election is over. Sort of like that parking ticket you wait to pay for when block your registration 5 years later...

I think Obama can afford it...

Nothing to see here...

I guess not but you would have to wonder about how smart it was for campaign managers to call folks who have let it be known they don't want calls. Might create a backlash of resentment among the voters.


DNC scrubs are typically taken very seriously by any reputable call center. For all of the bluster over the national DNC back when it started, no one wants to spend the $ to call someone who doesn't want to be called. The DNC saves the call centers money in the short and long term. State DNCs just add a level of complexity but any dialer coded in the past 10 years has DNC capability built in and any call center with a development team can easily scrub against them.

I hate to be jaded about politicians breaking the law, but if that's all he's done it would be refreshing-

Tempest + Teapot = ?

After the bank robbers were caught, they said "We didn't know robbing banks was illegal. And all we got was $20. Nobody was hurt, were they?"

How could the calls have been unintentional? Don't they have to abide by the "Do not call" lists? (I don't know if that's so or not.) Nevertheless, you would think someone would have checked out the law before making the call.

Its a misdemeanor. Its not a big deal in the scope of things. But his campaign, and by extension Obama, broke the law, and they admit it. Unintentional, but broke it nonetheless.

What's that old saying? "Ignorance of the law is no excuse"?

Umm who cares?? Should he pay a fine MM or just be banned from American political life forever?

The calls were okay. Stevie Wonder sang "I just called to say I love you." Senator Clinton called to ask me to vote for her. My favorite was Scarlett Johansson's call. She just wanted to hang out with me however.

The Republicans didn't have anything equivalent such as calls from the Governator or Chuck Norris.