Here's your opportunity to sing his praises. Why should I vote for Obama? What does he bring that's better than having one of the BEST ex-presidents as an advisor? Why should everyone overlook the Pastor Wright issue? Why isn't the Rezko issue a problem for him in the general against McAngry? Tell me why I shouldn't hold him to the same standard as the other candidates?

Here's your opportunity to sing his praises. Why should I vote for Obama? What does he bring that's better than having one of the BEST ex-presidents as an advisor? Why should everyone overlook the Pastor Wright issue? Why isn't the Rezko issue a problem for him in the general against McAngry? Tell me why I shouldn't hold him to the same standard as the other candidates?

Oh no. Do the research yourself. There's enough information out there so you, a presumed informed adult, can make your own decision using your judgment. You don't need the issues explained to you, so you can decide what issues are important. And we will get to know the candidates well enough to know exactly where they stand on the issues.
You've been in discussions for weeks with people who sing his praises, and you reject them as Koolaid drinkers, while you are the wise holdout. You're committed by ego now; there's no possible way you could participate in here as an Obama supporter, allowing yourself to become a "Kool-aid drinker". A change of attitude that large would be rare indeed.
My advise is to keep holding out on a hunch that his Mr. Hyde will show through and you can then exercise a well-earned, "I told you so."

Two excellent reasons: he's not a Republican and his name isn't Clinton.

He's a brilliant speaker, not entrenched in Washington, not Republican, not a Clinton, almost liberal enough and is by and large positive. I probably won't vote for him as I live in NE and it's going for McCain anyway but he has my support over Hillary.

He is electable....& Hillary isn't.
He has more actual experience getting things actually done in a split legislature.
He has more integrity in his left foot than Hillary has in her entire body.
I could go on, but you won't either listen or consider.

Len

Obama is the one because he is the only candidate that can change the World's perception of the United States. Rather than listening, we are perceived as bullying.
Rather than engaging in a dialogue, we are viewed as "Parents" rather than "Adults".

We can change a lot of things in this country with renewed hope and vigor. Obama will make mistakes, but they will be ones based on respect for others as well as ourselves.
We currently have no real allies in the World because of the Bush follies. We need allies.
:cool:

Here's your opportunity to sing his praises. Why should I vote for Obama? What does he bring that's better than having one of the BEST ex-presidents as an advisor? Why should everyone overlook the Pastor Wright issue? Why isn't the Rezko issue a problem for him in the general against McAngry? Tell me why I shouldn't hold him to the same standard as the other candidates?

Why overlook the Wright issue? Because as far as I know, Wright isn't running for office.

Rezko isn't a problem, because there was NOTHING ILLEGAL done.

I think you try and hold him to some unattainable standard.

Why not explain why Hillary is superior? Is the only reason really that she is rubbing hips will Slick Willy? If that is the case, there is a loooong list of qualified women out there.

Come on, specify her claimed vast experience.
Point out where her politics are superior to Obama's.
Here is your chance to sing your praises.

1. There's nothing to stop Bill Clinton from advising Obama as well, except maybe pue spite.

2. He was on the right side of the whole Iraq war thing, and he didn't have access to all the intelligence that Hillary could call up at her fingertips. back when you were voting for W. Go back and read his speech from that period, and tell me that wasn't prescient. What did Hillary do? Vote to give Bush the authority to get his war on. Shows for one that his judgement, and assessment of the situation was far superior to hers.

3. He's campaigning from a positive perspective, what we can do, what potential we have. Not from a mudslinging disparaging, attack form of campaign. We've had enough of that crap the last seven+ years.

The rest you might want to look into for yourself.

Now, you tell me, just what experience does Hill really have? I mean, besides being married to Bill.

Alas young Spidey, not a one of us will be able to lead you to Barack's camp. You must walk your own path like each of us have and find your own way. It's one of those "if you meet the Buddha on the road..." things.

That said ,check out the reaction in the Clinton camp of Richardson's endorsement of Obama. I do not believe Obama would have reacted this way if the tables were turned the other way around.

Obama is a class act. The Clintons are not.

AND +1 on what Len said.


Here's an excerpt from this morning's LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-ticket23mar23,1,2927411.story)

What we didn't see or hear was Richardson's Thursday night phone call to the New York senator to inform her she was not his choice. "It was a painful conversation for me that I had with Sen. Clinton last night," Richardson told CNN's John King on Friday.

King bored in, saying he'd heard from others that such conversations with the Clintons could be downright unpleasant. "Well," Richardson said, "let's say it was a difficult conversation."

On Friday, the Clinton campaign, which earlier had so badly wanted Richardson's OK, was putting out the word through strategist Mark Penn that Richardson's endorsement was too late to matter much to anyone.

Richardson said that's "typical of many of the people in that campaign," adding: "I still have enormous respect for Sen. Clinton."

Here's your opportunity to sing his praises. Why should I vote for Obama? What does he bring that's better than having one of the BEST ex-presidents as an advisor? Why should everyone overlook the Pastor Wright issue? Why isn't the Rezko issue a problem for him in the general against McAngry? Tell me why I shouldn't hold him to the same standard as the other candidates?

He's a racist scumbag. I'd rather vote for David Duke. :cryin:

Alas young Spidey, not a one of us will be able to lead you to Barack's camp. You must walk your own path like each of us have and find your own way. It's one of those "if you meet the Buddha on the road..." things.

That said ,check out the reaction in the Clinton camp of Richardson's endorsement of Obama. I do not believe Obama would have reacted this way if the tables were turned the other way around.

Obama is a class act. The Clintons are not.

AND +1 on what Len said.

...
[/I]

The reason for this thread was to give everyone an opportunity to voice their reasons for voting for Obama. Certain people have gone so far as to malign me by calling me a "Repub" simply for vetting Obama for his shortcomings. If everyone is so certain in their belief for voting for Obama then this exercise should be simple and welcome since I've been beating the down-with-Obama drum lately.

I don't happen to think he's the strongest candidate, but that's my opinion. Unfortunately, the fact that he's classy hardly makes him qualified, or guaranteed to succeed in the general. Politics is not a game for the faint of heart. Quite frankly, if/when he gets to the general, it's gonna get a lot worse. Can we afford to lose again?

If people can explain why the media gives Obama a pass on the issues, (i.e., Racism/Rezko, is there a 3rd R?), well fine, then lets hear why that's acceptable? Are they setting him up? Why is it only now that Wright's comments are coming out? Classic build him up then tear him down. Makes for great ratings...

So, lets hear it folks. Why is Obama a stronger candidate than Hillary? Considering the new issues, how/why can Obama still beat McCain in the general? From what I've seen, some of the polling numbers show him trailing McCain...

He's a racist scumbag. I'd rather vote for David Duke. :cryin:

Does David Duke still attend the meetings? :blush2:

Are you happy now? It's sunshine and lollypops for everyone when he gets elected.

Hey spidey why didn't you bring up the parking ticket thing when Len mentioned integrity? LOL!!! How about throwin' grandmamma from the train. Now that's integrity. Let's not speak of his association with an indicted con man who tossed him a sweet land deal in order to curry favors from him. Or, God forbid we mention the good bigot reverend who thinks if you're white you're the devil. Now that's integrity.

Speaking of that parking ticket, Obama running to pay that because he thought it might come out during his presidential bid, but not walking away from his racist church and minister is like going back home to unplug the iron but then forgetting you left candles buring on the table in the other room. The house is still gonna burn down.

Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton...

No thanks.

Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton...

No thanks.

Yeah, I guess having another Clinton in the WH would be such a bad thing. Yeah, I agree, balanced budgets and a surplus... best economy ever...Peoples of the world respectin' America an' all... all such bad things...

Damn it, there'll be no more blowies in the WH!!! How dare Hillary forgive Bill for being a dog!

Alas young Spidey, not a one of us will be able to lead you to Barack's camp. You must walk your own path like each of us have and find your own way. It's one of those "if you meet the Buddha on the road..." things.

That said ,check out the reaction in the Clinton camp of Richardson's endorsement of Obama. I do not believe Obama would have reacted this way if the tables were turned the other way around.

Obama is a class act. The Clintons are not.

AND +1 on what Len said.


Here's an excerpt from this morning's LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-ticket23mar23,1,2927411.story)

What we didn't see or hear was Richardson's Thursday night phone call to the New York senator to inform her she was not his choice. "It was a painful conversation for me that I had with Sen. Clinton last night," Richardson told CNN's John King on Friday.

King bored in, saying he'd heard from others that such conversations with the Clintons could be downright unpleasant. "Well," Richardson said, "let's say it was a difficult conversation."

On Friday, the Clinton campaign, which earlier had so badly wanted Richardson's OK, was putting out the word through strategist Mark Penn that Richardson's endorsement was too late to matter much to anyone.

Richardson said that's "typical of many of the people in that campaign," adding: "I still have enormous respect for Sen. Clinton."

I could not have said it better myself.

I didn't care about Hillary when she was First Lady, except that, in hindsight and compared to the nothingness of Laura Bush, I appreciated that Hillary, like many before her, tried to do positive things with her position.

As a senator, I've not liked her at all. She's backed stupid righty issues related to video games and flag-burning, and then she became one of the chief enablers of Bush's War.

As a candidate, I've despised her. But I think I've said enough about her campaign tactics in other threads.

Truly a disgusting human being, she is.

Damn it, there'll be no more blowies in the WH!!! How dare Hillary forgive Bill for being a dog!


You said it; not me. :rolleyes:

Jesse D Smith called it right.

...Truly a disgusting human being, she is.

Funny, all you do here is bash Hillary, not one praise for Obama... I get it...

Wow, do you even know her to make that sort of judgment? I don't even think that about Bush, cause I'm rational enough to realize I don't know him on a personal level

Dr. Sears, I've had fun going back and forth with you in the past...but you've really reached an all time low with this one. Be sure to wipe the froth from your mouth when your done..

Obama is the one because he is the only candidate that can change the World's perception of the United States. Rather than listening, we are perceived as bullying.
Rather than engaging in a dialogue, we are viewed as "Parents" rather than "Adults".

We can change a lot of things in this country with renewed hope and vigor. Obama will make mistakes, but they will be ones based on respect for others as well as ourselves.
We currently have no real allies in the World because of the Bush follies. We need allies.
:cool:

One of the better, well thought out, responses thus far. I hope you're right.

Funny, all you do here is bash Hillary, not one praise for Obama... I get it...

Wow, do you even know her to make that sort of judgment? I don't even think that about Bush, cause I'm rational enough to realize I don't know him on a personal level

Dr. Sears, I've had fun going back and forth with you in the past...but you've really reached an all time low with this one. Be sure to wipe the froth from your mouth when your done..
I believe I've sung his praises in other threads. If not, then that's my bad. Thing is, I've been so overwhelmed by how low Hillary has sunk in this campaign that it dominates the discussion for me. She's taken the debate from the issues to the gutter, not I.

As for "that sort of judgment," I feel comfortable in saying that about someone who would repeatedly drive a wedge in her party to get the nomination. Fact is, I've NEVER seen you defend or address the comment she made about McCain being better equipped to be CIC, or Bill saying last week that a race between Hillary and McCain would be good because you'd have two candidates who care deeply about America. :rolleyes: Pattern here? That would be a yes, Bob. Even Pelosi, someone I'm not particularly fond of, has pretty much called her out for crap like that.

As for Obama, well, I was an Edwards man. And I've been pissed off since the beginning of the campaign by the way the media basically shoved him out of the way. But I've always liked Obama, so it wasn't hard to start supporting him once Edwards dropped out. On the singularly most important decision of my lifetime, he's the only one of the heretofore mentioned candidates who held the correct stance all along. (At least Edwards owned up to his mistake, unlike Hillary.) While I pretty much agree up and down with where Obama is on the issues that are important to me, I've been won over by his determination to run a positive campaign and change the nature of political discourse in this country. After the hijinx of Bush/Rove, that's, unfortunately, become hugely important to me. Hillary, on the other hand, has done what she can to prolong the agony (hence my anger). My heart sank after she won Ohio because I realized that, if she were to win the nomination, the lesson learned would be that the Kitchen Sink strategy worked. Hooray for America! Can't wait for future elections! :rolleyes:

I believe Wright and Rezko are non-issues. I know you don't, and you and the fountain of wisdom that is Live Steam can hold your reverse-racism, woe-is-the-white-man cry-and-whine parties at your leisure. (Never mind that it means nothing to you that he stood up like a man and addressed the controversy head on.) Oh, and If you want to sling dirt, there's plenty more to throw at both Hillary and McCain.

I also believe that, as far as politicians go, Obama is a man of integrity and has more positive, unselfish motivations for being president than any of the remaining candidates.

This thread is moot!

We have all decided that the best person for the job is Dick Cheney, based on his long resume.

He will shoot anyone in the face that thinks otherwise.

This thread is moot!

We have all decided that the best person for the job is Dick Cheney, based on his long resume.

He will shoot anyone in the face that thinks otherwise.


"So?" Or, perhaps a better Dick Cheney quote would be "go f*ck yourself," eh?

If you're really worried about DC shooting you, just dress up like a game bird; he'll be sure to nail the insurance salesman next to you instead.:)

and I ask myself, which one has the greatest chance of rolling back all the present Presidential abuses of power, he comes out on top.

when I ask myself which of the remaining will be able to possibly enlist the Arab League to police the streets of Iraq so our boys won't have to, he comes out on top

when I ask myself which one has the highest chance of bringing some international respect back to our nation and the Presidency, he comes out on top.

"when I ask myself which of the remaining will be able to possibly enlist the Arab League to police the streets of Iraq so our boys won't have to, he comes out on top"

Now this is exactly what scares me about you guys. You don't even know how screwed up that statement is.

"when I ask myself which of the remaining will be able to possibly enlist the Arab League to police the streets of Iraq so our boys won't have to, he comes out on top"

Now this is exactly what scares me about you guys. You don't even know how screwed up that statement is.


because they share similar cultures?

share similar languages?

share similar religions?

won't be seen as 'outsiders' or 'occupiers'

our soldiers rule, they are not designed to function as police. that ain't their job and they shouldn't die for it.

continuing to go this alone will only mean more dead and another step closer to economic ruin

"when I ask myself which of the remaining will be able to possibly enlist the Arab League to police the streets of Iraq so our boys won't have to, he comes out on top"

Now this is exactly what scares me about you guys. You don't even know how screwed up that statement is.

And that, in a nutshell, is why your party and your ideology has fallen so far out of favor. It's that kind of thinking that got us into this mess in the first place. You had your shot, and you screwed it up beyond belief.

And that, in a nutshell, is why your party and your ideology has fallen so far out of favor. It's that kind of thinking that got us into this mess in the first place. You had your shot, and you screwed it up beyond belief.

There is another election coming up and I believe we will have yet another chance.

There is another election coming up and I believe we will have yet another chance.

Why? How?

Why? How?

See, you STILL don't have a clue. :)

cause they have a candidate willing to stay 100 years

see to them, that is change

another chance for the McSame

See, you STILL don't have a clue. :)

The things you believe in do have another chance; let's see if the nation will still buy your patrioticallly correct, Republican uber alles beliefs. I don't underestimate the power of reptilian thinking at 3:00am so I do believe your beliefs actually have a very good chance. Perhaps McSame can select Hillary for VP.

A guy like Spitzer, at least he plays out his fantasies with his own money. The cons always want to do it with OUR money. Good riddance.

the big dumb voting bloc will show up to yet again vote against their self interests
or that racists and bigots will rally to stop one of them 'uppity colored folks' from running our country

I have higher hopes for my country, but given history my hopes are quite guarded

He has more actual experience getting things actually done in a split legislature.

Credit Yes, Experience ehhh (http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/03/obamas_problem_mentors.html)?

Jones helped Obama prior to his run for the US senate by assigning high profile legislation to the candidate thus filling out his fairly pathetic record as a state senator. Most of Obama's "accomplshments" in Springfield were the result of Jones allowing Obama a prominent role in getting legislation through the senate - legislation that in many cases had been introduced and championed over the years by other lawmakers.

Again, no one is accusing Obama of doing anything illegal. But as the evidence grows that he is just another politician and someone whose mentors are anything but paragons of virtue and probity, whatever otherworldly sheen that surrounded him begins to fall off and we can see him for what he truly is; a shrewd, politically gifted, far left politician.

Now, I suppose if you can find an Emil Jones who can fix things for Obama in the US Congress, Obama will continue to get things thru a split congress.

because they share similar cultures?

share similar languages?

share similar religions?

won't be seen as 'outsiders' or 'occupiers'

our soldiers rule, they are not designed to function as police. that ain't their job and they shouldn't die for it.

continuing to go this alone will only mean more dead and another step closer to economic ruin

Obama was born a Muslim. He has subsequently renounced Islam and become a Black Liberation Christian, which means in the eyes of Muslims his is an apostate.

Apostacy is the greatest violation of Islamic law, which condemns all apostates to death. This does not exactly lead to the warm welcome that you describe above.

That's the first point. The second point is this. The Islamists are not going to change because of who we elect as president. That is not to say they don't have a preference.

They would definately prefer that we elect someone who is pledged to letting them win in Iraq.

If people can explain why the media gives Obama a pass on the issues, (i.e., Racism/Rezko, is there a 3rd R?),.

because those aren't the issues.

Those are smoke screens thrown up by those like yourself who don't want to see obama as the nominee. There's nothing to them except the hype and fury generated by them, and the incurious media who hype them over and over without doing any real investigative research into their validity.

Hillary's electable? In what universe? Nothing the repubs can dig up against Obama compares to the abundance of dirt they can get on Hillary, without even breaking a sweat.

I'm tired of...

Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Bush, Bush....Clinton?

the nepitism has to stop.
McCain is another 4 years of the same garbage in Iraq and failed economic policies leading to a declining dollar, the innundation of the executive branch filled with Liberty University graduates, faith based policies, etc...

its time to actually listen to why the FF believed in separatoin fo church and state...
Obama promises that...he's renewed energy into a government that is failing at its very core...Clinton, while potentialy very successful, is more of the same...such a run of nepitism between two families has NEVER been seen in the WH....its time to stop.

Obama was born a Muslim. He has subsequently renounced Islam and become a Black Liberation Christian, which means in the eyes of Muslims his is an apostate.

Apostacy is the greatest violation of Islamic law, which condemns all apostates to death. This does not exactly lead to the warm welcome that you describe above.

That's the first point. The second point is this. The Islamists are not going to change because of who we elect as president. That is not to say they don't have a preference.

They would definately prefer that we elect someone who is pledged to letting them win in Iraq.


How was he "born Muslim'? he was born in Hawaii, and his mother separated from his Musim father when he was two.

And when did he "renounce" Islam? Was this a public event? Do you have a video of the ceremony that I can watch?

How was he "born Muslim'? he was born in Hawaii, and his mother separated from his Musim father when he was two.

And when did he "renounce" Islam? Was this a public event?

Islam is a patriarchy. Obama's biological father was Muslim, as we his stepfather. In the eyes of Islam, he was Muslim.

Perhaps renounce was the wrong word, and I appreciate your correction. When Obama, joined Trinity United he became a Christian, which technically means that he converted.

Apostacy is the most serious transgression of Islamic law. Witness the apostate that was blessed by the Pope on Easter. He said he was proud of the blessing, but that it has put his life in greater danger.

Credit Yes, Experience ehhh (http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/03/obamas_problem_mentors.html)?

Jones helped Obama prior to his run for the US senate by assigning high profile legislation to the candidate thus filling out his fairly pathetic record as a state senator. Most of Obama's "accomplshments" in Springfield were the result of Jones allowing Obama a prominent role in getting legislation through the senate - legislation that in many cases had been introduced and championed over the years by other lawmakers.

Again, no one is accusing Obama of doing anything illegal. But as the evidence grows that he is just another politician and someone whose mentors are anything but paragons of virtue and probity, whatever otherworldly sheen that surrounded him begins to fall off and we can see him for what he truly is; a shrewd, politically gifted, far left politician.

Now, I suppose if you can find an Emil Jones who can fix things for Obama in the US Congress, Obama will continue to get things thru a split congress.

and yet, somehow that legislation hadn't got through until then. Strange that, being that it was such popular, non-controversial stuff and all.

Islam is a patriarchal. Obama's biological father was Muslim, as we his stepfather. In the eyes of Islam, he is Muslim.

.

In the eyes of Islam, America is the great Satan. I guess this makes it true. I guess you agree with that.

Pretty persuasive argument you got there. "The Muslims believe it!!"

Islam is a patriarchy. Obama's biological father was Muslim, as we his stepfather. In the eyes of Islam, he was Muslim.

Perhaps renounce was the wrong word, and I appreciate your correction. When Obama, joined Trinity United he became a Christian, which technically means that he converted.

Apostacy is the most serious transgression of Islamic law. Witness the apostate that was blessed by the Pope on Easter. He said he was proud of the blessing, but that it has put his life in greater danger.

Islam is a religion. It is defined by the individual ONLY. If Obama does not want to be Muslim, then he's not. got it?

this argument is getting old...just calling someone something doesn't make them that thing...I call you things all the time...:thumbsup: you may or may not be those things..

In the eyes of Islam, America is the great Satan. I guess this makes it true. I guess you agree with that.

Pretty persuasive argument you got there. "The Muslims believe it!!"

First, my statements about what others believe, do not mean that I believe them.

Second, in no way does Obama's apostacy disqualify him for President in my eyes. I only pointed out that just because Obama isn't a republican doesn't necessitate his greater acceptance by organizations like the Arab League. And that, in fact, his past gives him fuel for the more extreme Muslims.

But you're the one who said Obama was born a Muslim. Because that's what others believe.

So obviously, you believe it too, or else you never would have made the statement.

Now, you could have said, "muslims believe that Obama was born Muslim..........................", but that's not what you did.

Islam is a religion. It is defined by the individual ONLY. If Obama does not want to be Muslim, then he's not. got it?

this argument is getting old...just calling someone something doesn't make them that thing...I call you things all the time...:thumbsup: you may or may not be those things..

As you say, Islam is a religion. A religion that does not recognize a seperation of church and state. Islam is a complete system for life. That's why a religious leader, can command what you and I would consider to be the civil authority to execute people, etc. It is also a religion that is not "open" to the definitions of individuals. Allah laid it out for Muhammad word for word.

I did not say Obama is a Muslim. I said according to Islam, he was born a Muslim. His later life conversion to Christianity makes him an apostate, according to Islamic law. Islam is like the La Cosa Nostra. Once you're in you're in for life.

These aren't my ideas or beliefs. I believe that all that stuff is absolutely insane for modern man to believe in.

Equally insane are the good folks that DO believe in these things. And that's why Obama does not necessarily make a more agreeable President to Muslims.

Got it? :thumbsup:

I cannot believe that his has escaped our collective grasp...but come now...we are looking for the one... IT IS A SHOW DOWN!

Don't underestimate the halfling...he has tough feet.

However, if you look to pic three...you might question whether or not Frodo has the follow through to lead.

But you're the one who said Obama was born a Muslim. Because that's what others believe.

So obviously, you believe it too, or else you never would have made the statement.

Now, you could have said, "muslims believe that Obama was born Muslim..........................", but that's not what you did.

Friend, I believe Obama was born an innocent human, like you were, like I was, like we all were.

I believe that the projected label of Muslim, Christian or any other nonsense upon the innocent infants that we all started life as is the greatest wrong possible. The cause of all unhappyness on this Earth.

If it was up to me, all infants would be taught correct meditation so that at a very early age they would learn to focus on the eternal energy that burns within them instead of causing problems for themselves and others.

But, its not up to me, now ist it? Man has been taught to hold onto the past. The past of Muhammad or Jesus or pick your own poinson. We've been taught to hold this past so close and dear that we kill each other for our hold of these different pasts.

None of which changes the fact that all of these posts attacking me of calling Barack a Muslim miss the entire point of my post that started it all. Which is that Barack is a Muslim to those whom it matters to, the ones that ATP wrote of in his post that I responded to.

I've said it over and over that Barack is a Muslim because of Islamic law, not my personal beliefs. (Technically Barack is an apostate. according to Islamic law)

I've said the same thing now for the last time.

Here's your opportunity to sing his praises. Why should I vote for Obama? What does he bring that's better than having one of the BEST ex-presidents as an advisor? Why should everyone overlook the Pastor Wright issue? Why isn't the Rezko issue a problem for him in the general against McAngry? Tell me why I shouldn't hold him to the same standard as the other candidates?

Senator Obama is the only candidate to call the "No child left behind" act what is is - an utter and complete failure. For that alone, he should be able to get every educator's vote.

Senator Obama is the only candidate to call the "No child left behind" act what is is - an utter and complete failure. For that alone, he should be able to get every educator's vote.

I don't think those votes were ever in play.

The election is the Dems' to lose. Stunningly, they're losing it. Whether you like Clinton or Obama (I was a Clinton booster), at this point the internecine warfare is a real threat to the party's chances in '08. Richardson's endorsement should put an end to it.

Nice summary.

and yet, somehow that legislation hadn't got through until then. Strange that, being that it was such popular, non-controversial stuff and all.

Thank you for bringing that up. That allows me to use the other source (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3602710.ece)for important topic of the huh hum Honorable Emil Jones.


From The Sunday TimesMarch 23, 2008

Barack Obama: toxic mentors start to corrode pristine campaign
The Democrat was surging ahead but now revelations about the men who helped shape him are putting voters off

At one point during Obama’s 2003 Senate campaign, Jones set out to woo two African-American politicians miffed by Obama’s presumption and ambition. One of them, Rickey “Hollywood” Hendon, a state senator, had scoffed that Obama was so ambitious he would run for “king of the world” if the position were vacant.

When Jones secured the two men’s support, Obama asked his mentor how he had pulled it off. “I made them an offer,” Jones said in mock-mafioso style. “And you don’t want to know.”

Say this sounds like a guy you want on your side. Is it possible, just possible, that the Senator's friend picked legislation to put Obama's name on because the legislation had become ripe and was ready to pass? They guys a hack just like they are all hacks, McCain included. Just some people are so gullible they can't see the fact that he's not the messiah he's being made out to be.

Not a good practice in a Democracy.

I'm throwing this one in as a bonus. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/23/AR2008032301706.html?hpid=topnews)

gee, anything's possible.


making a pretty big stink out of some pretty huge supposition there. But then again, what else is new?

gee, anything's possible.


making a pretty big stink out of some pretty huge supposition there. But then again, what else is new?

So you think it's more plausible that the huh hum Honorable Emil Jones put Obama's name to those bills because only a neophyte State Senator had the gravitas to push them thru the state legislature.

Rev Wright provided the hole in the dyke. The water is going to start rushing through.

Obama is a hack like all the other hacks, which isn't necessarily a problem. He's a very junior very liberal Senator. Considering that he's been absent without leave running for Prez for most of his US Senate career, he's got even less experience in practice.

Let's just be realistic in our expectations, is all I'm saying.

Senator Obama is the only candidate to call the "No child left behind" act what is is - an utter and complete failure. For that alone, he should be able to get every educator's vote.

Sorry, but that makes two candidates looking to end NCLB:

"Hillary also knows that we have to improve our K-12 system in order to ensure that every child is prepared to compete in an increasingly global economy. As president, she will:

* End the unfunded mandate known as No Child Left Behind.
* Meet the funding promises of IDEA to ensure that children with special needs get the attention and support they deserve.
* Recruit and retain thousands more outstanding teachers and principals, especially in urban and rural areas.
* Cut the minority dropout rate in half.
* Create "Green Schools" in order to reduce energy costs and eliminate environmental hazards that can hinder children's development.
* Expand early-intervention mentoring programs to help one million at-risk youth aspire for college and job success."

...Richardson's endorsement should put an end to it.

Doubtful. what's the difference between the delegates? 150?

The process will go forward. Depending how badly the loser loses in the coming primaries will determine who drops out.

Sorry, but that makes two candidates looking to end NCLB:

"Hillary also knows that we have to improve our K-12 system in order to ensure that every child is prepared to compete in an increasingly global economy. As president, she will:

* End the unfunded mandate known as No Child Left Behind.
* Meet the funding promises of IDEA to ensure that children with special needs get the attention and support they deserve.
* Recruit and retain thousands more outstanding teachers and principals, especially in urban and rural areas.
* Cut the minority dropout rate in half.
* Create "Green Schools" in order to reduce energy costs and eliminate environmental hazards that can hinder children's development.
* Expand early-intervention mentoring programs to help one million at-risk youth aspire for college and job success."
"In 2001 Senator Hillary Clinton voted for the No Child Left Behind Act."

So she voted for the act...before she was against the act---Peachy.

She sure does get hoodwinked awfully easy...voting for wars, then blaming Bush for putting one over on her, voting for No Child then blaming Kennedy for putting one over on her.

Let's just hope that if she gets that three A.M. call she can discern the difference between the Russians are coming and Is your nose running...then go catch it.

Thank-god she doesn't seem to be running on a platform of personal responsibilty or her act would seem...disingenous.

I believe that the projected label of Muslim, Christian or any other nonsense upon the innocent infants that we all started life as is the greatest wrong possible. The cause of all unhappyness on this Earth.


You cannot be serious.

"In 2001 Senator Hillary Clinton voted for the No Child Left Behind Act."

So she voted for the act...before she was against the act---Peachy.

She sure does get hoodwinked awfully easy...voting for wars, then blaming Bush for putting one over on her, voting for No Child then blaming Kennedy for putting one over on her.

Thank-god she doesn't seem to be running on a platform of personal responsibilty or her act would seem...disingenous.

What, no pics? How can anyone take your comments seriously now if you don't post some pics? :nonod:

Well, I guess she's responsible for NCLB being underfunded? Guess she's trying to fix a screwed up Bush policy. Sort of like her vote on the war. But of course, that's her fault too? Hers alone? Riiiight...

What, no pics? How can anyone take your comments seriously now if you don't post some pics? :nonod:

Well, I guess she's responsible for NCLB being underfunded? Guess she's trying to fix a screwed up Bush policy. Sort of like her vote on the war. But of course, that's her fault too? Hers alone? Riiiight...

So...she voted no...to No Child Left Behind?
So...she voted no...on the president's Authorization on the Use of FORCE in Iraq in 2002?

Next you are going to tell me that she voted for the Patriot Act in 2001...well that is just rubbish I say...and even if she did certainly by 2006 when it came up to a revote she would have seen the error of her ways?

Those votes...are they part of the congressional record...anywhere you know where I might find out the answers to these questions?

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00029
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00313

So...she voted no...to No Child Left Behind?
So...she voted no...on the president's Authorization on the Use of FORCE in Iraq in 2002?

Next you are going to tell me that she voted for the Patriot Act in 2001...well that is just rubbish I say...and even if she did certainly by 2006 when it came up to a revote she would have seen the error of her ways?

Those votes...are they part of the congressional record...anywhere you know where I might find out the answers to these questions?

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00029
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00313

Didn't make those claims, so don't put words in my mouth. Bush policies suxx...underfunded NCLB, Iraq...etc. But those are all Hill's fault?

Hey, did Obama vote on those issues? What national office did he hold where he voted on these issues?

You cannot be serious.

I couldn't be more serious.

Muslim, Christian, etc., it's all a lie.

Religion is a comfort to people, as is morphine or any other opiate. But like a drug, religion seperates the spirit from true experience, which is why it causes problems for the individual and the collective.

Religion becomes ingrained in the individual thru emotional attachment. Want proof? Tell someone their religion is false. Odds are you'll witness their emotional reaction.

Didn't make those claims, so don't put words in my mouth.

Hey, did Obama vote on those issues? What national office did he hold where he voted on these issues?

Not putting words...I am just shocked...shocked I tell you that Hillary has been wrong so many times. NCLB, the war, the patriot act (twice)...

Hell it almost makes that whole experience thing a negative...with experience like this...who needs a neophite?

I recognize that this must be difficult for you...defending a person's vote when they get it 180 degrees assbackward...is always a devilish thing to try to do (and always unsuccessful because after all, the vote it there isn't it.)

As a person who is deciding on voting for Kodos or Kang...I don't care if Obama didn't get the chance to vote on many of those issues...but I do find it odd that a person touting their record of experience...gets an F when it comes to those important final exams.

You cannot be serious.

At least you didn't call him Shirley.

/(shout out to Svend.)

Not putting words...I am just shocked...shocked I tell you that Hillary has been wrong so many times. NCLB, the war, the patriot act (twice)...

Hell it almost makes that whole experience thing a negative...with experience like this...who needs a neophite?

I recognize that this must be difficult for you...defending a person's vote when they get it 180 degrees assbackward...is always a devilish thing to try to do (and always unsuccessful because after all, the vote it there isn't it.)

As a person who is deciding on voting for Kodos or Kang...I don't care if Obama didn't get the chance to vote on many of those issues...but I do find it odd that a person touting their record of experience...gets an F when it comes to those important final exams.

How is it Hills fault that NCLB is unfunded?

How is it Hills fault that Iraq is a clusterf*ck?

Please explain? (Pics would be acceptable if you can't find the words.)

Like it or not, the fact that Obama hadn't voted on such issues is relevant.

At least you didn't call him Shirley.

/(shout out to Svend.)

It always good to keep something in reserve. If he starts behaving I won't have to go Shirley on him.

How is it Hills fault that NCLB is unfunded?

How is it Hills fault that Iraq is a clusterf*ck?

Please explain? (Pics would be acceptable if you can't find the words.)

Hey the votes are out there. She voted for a Bill that she is now running away from. She voted for a war she is now running away from.

And instead of saying...it was my fault. She blames others for pulling one over on her.

Flippity...floppity...

Maybe...just maybe. If she thought long and hard about the ramifications of her votes, that maybe just maybe...the evidence for Iraq sucked and the NCLB was a bunch of crap...to begin with we wouldn't have to be having this conversation about how she sucked as a senator when the chips were down and decisions had to be made.

But hey when 3:00 am comes around...she will get it right this time...sure of it. Or the pizza might end up at the wrong address when Bill gets the munchies.

That would be catastrophic.

I couldn't be more serious.

Muslim, Christian, etc., it's all a lie.

Religion is a comfort to people, as is morphine or any other opiate. But like a drug, religion seperates the spirit from true experience, which is why it causes problems for the individual and the collective.

Religion becomes ingrained in the individual thru emotional attachment. Want proof? Tell someone their religion is false. Odds are you'll witness their emotional reaction.

Thing is, if you take away religion, people will fight over politics. Take away politics, people will fight PASSIONATELY about steel vs aluminum, campy vs shimano, patriots vs colts, whatever.

People want to belong to a larger group, one that they can conform to even while they use their membership in this group to show how they don't conform to other groups.

To paraphrase the NRA, Religion doesn't kill people, People kill people.

Hey the votes are out there. .....
That would be catastrophic.


Gentlemen Please! This type of bickering back and forth is going to destroy (http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=44aed783-8357-4491-8589-ee15290e6e96) the Democratic party.


Ugh, on second thought. please continue!


The New Republic

Slouching Toward Denver
by Noam Scheiber
The Democratic death march.
Post Date Wednesday, April 09, 2008

When Democrats contemplate the apocalypse these days, they have visions of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton slugging it out à la Ted Kennedy and Jimmy Carter at the 1980 convention. The campaign's current trajectory is, in fact, alarmingly similar to the one that produced that disastrous affair.

Gentlemen Please! This type of bickering back and forth is going to destroy (http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=44aed783-8357-4491-8589-ee15290e6e96) the Democratic party.


Ugh, on second thought. please continue!


The New Republic

Slouching Toward Denver
by Noam Scheiber
The Democratic death march.
Post Date Wednesday, April 09, 2008

When Democrats contemplate the apocalypse these days, they have visions of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton slugging it out à la Ted Kennedy and Jimmy Carter at the 1980 convention. The campaign's current trajectory is, in fact, alarmingly similar to the one that produced that disastrous affair.
I am for the destruction of at least one of the parties (and its replacement with 1 or more better parties)...If I sound a little harsh at the dems right now it is only because they seem the weaker party, the less national party...more ripe for implosion. No...my convention takes place in Denver...but in May (22-26)

How is it Hills fault that NCLB is unfunded?

How is it Hills fault that Iraq is a clusterf*ck?

Lessee.... if something you supported isn't working out because of lack of funds, take the bull by the horn and call for increased funding. If you have leadership credentials.

But no - she makes a 180º turnabout and drops her support for the program. Pretty flighty, wouldn't you say?

And on Iraq..... she supported something that was insupportable to begin with, and you think her hands ought to be clean from the blood that continues to spill? Where does the buck stop with her?

Bottom line -- she doesn't have what it takes to lead this country.

Hey the votes are out there. She voted for a Bill that she is now running away from. She voted for a war she is now running away from.

And instead of saying...it was my fault. She blames others for pulling one over on her.

Flippity...floppity...

Maybe...just maybe. If she thought long and hard about the ramifications of her votes, that maybe just maybe...the evidence for Iraq sucked and the NCLB was a bunch of crap...to begin with we wouldn't have to be having this conversation about how she sucked as a senator when the chips were down and decisions had to be made.

But hey when 3:00 am comes around...she will get it right this time...sure of it. Or the pizza might end up at the wrong address when Bill gets the munchies.

That would be catastrophic.

Please...how can she control the funding of NCLB? How is it her fault the Bush programs and policies, such as NCLB, were failures due to incompetence? Again, I guess the failures of 'the Bush' are Hillary's fault? Good one.

Thing is, if you take away religion, people will fight over politics. Take away politics, people will fight PASSIONATELY about steel vs aluminum, campy vs shimano, patriots vs colts, whatever.

People want to belong to a larger group, one that they can conform to even while they use their membership in this group to show how they don't conform to other groups.

To paraphrase the NRA, Religion doesn't kill people, People kill people.

True words friend, true words. Although, I really wish you hadn't brought up the Pats. I'm still not over that game. Jeezus, what was Parcells thinking!?!

In all serious, not that I was kidding about the Pats thing, the vacuum created by a sudden removal of organizied religion would not be fun to be around. It serves a purpose. Kind of like an iron lung that keeps the sick body alive.

Only the individual can escape the lie at this time. When enough individuals free themselves real change is possible.

I am for the destruction of at least one of the parties (and its replacement with 1 or more better parties)...If I sound a little harsh at the dems right now it is only because they seem the weaker party, the less national party...more ripe for implosion. No...my convention takes place in Denver...but in May (22-26)

True That!

You've got to have a viable opposition party. Nobody is going to benefit from a single party. Who is weaker? I couldn't tell. I'm not exactly pleased with either myself.

Doubtful. what's the difference between the delegates? 150?

The process will go forward. Depending how badly the loser loses in the coming primaries will determine who drops out.

That's laughable.......

neither of them could lose the next primaries by enough to drop out.

This is going to the floor.

2 votes....deadlocked.........no one gets the nomination.
after the second vote, the delegates are no longer committed.

Then it becomes a mess.

Len

Please...how can she control the funding of NCLB? How is it her fault the Bush programs and policies, such as NCLB, were failures due to incompetence? Again, I guess the failures of 'the Bush' are Hillary's fault? Good one.

Damn...I am sorry, I thought she was in the Senate or something...could write bills pass amendments use her power and prestige as one of the 100 most powerful people in the country to change the funding mandates or pull the troops.

It is almost like...the votes don't matter...just the company you keep.

What an odd way of looking at candidates.
No wonder the Dems are all set to lose another one they should win.

That's laughable.......

neither of them could lose the next primaries by enough to drop out.

This is going to the floor.

2 votes....deadlocked.........no one gets the nomination.
after the second vote, the delegates are no longer committed.

Then it becomes a mess.

Len

I'd laugh if it wasn't heartbreaking.

I've never understood the democrat's ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

I say we scrap the whole thing and go parliamentary.

True That!

You've got to have a viable opposition party. Nobody is going to benefit from a single party. Who is weaker? I couldn't tell. I'm not exactly pleased with either myself.

My suggestion is that we are in the messes we are in...because we actually only do have one party. Just because one likes to wear blue ties (or pantsuits) and the other likes to wear red ties...doesn't mean they are substantive differences.

In the eyes of Islam, he was Muslim
Is this your opinion, or have you heard this from a proclaimed Muslim? If you can post a bit of authentic Islamic law that deals with this, I'd appreciate it.

So you think it's more plausible that the huh hum Honorable Emil Jones put Obama's name to those bills because only a neophyte State Senator had the gravitas to push them thru the state legislature.

Rev Wright provided the hole in the dyke. The water is going to start rushing through.

Obama is a hack like all the other hacks, which isn't necessarily a problem. He's a very junior very liberal Senator. Considering that he's been absent without leave running for Prez for most of his US Senate career, he's got even less experience in practice.

Let's just be realistic in our expectations, is all I'm saying.

I'm saying that the "huh hum Honorable Emil Jones" can say anything he wants to say. If you have anything other than his words that show that this is indeed what hap[pened, then go ahead and show it.

Otherwise, I'll just have to conclude that anything is possible. Hillary said she was dodging gunfire in Bosnia, and negotiating peace treaties in Northern Ireland. But just cause she, or the "huh hum Honorable Emil Jones" say something doesn't make it so.

My suggestion is that we are in the messes we are in...because we actually only do have one party. Just because one likes to wear blue ties (or pantsuits) and the other likes to wear red ties...doesn't mean they are substantive differences.

Hard to argue with that. Given the current popularity of the Prez and the Congress, I'd say that we're inching our way towards a legitamate attempt at getting a 3rd party. It would take a charismatic guy like Barack to roll the dice on blowing himself up.

Is this your opinion, or have you heard this from a proclaimed Muslim? If you can post a bit of authentic Islamic law that deals with this, I'd appreciate it.

Absolutely, this source (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/015222.php) deals directly with the apostacy of the Senator.

I did not say Obama is a Muslim. I said according to Islam, he was born a Muslim.

This is what you initially said.

Obama was born a Muslim.

since then, you've backtracked and expanded on your initial statement, but this is what you began with. "Obama was born a Muslim".

Not, "According to Islam, Obama was..............."

I don't think those votes were ever in play.

I sure was.

Didn't make those claims, so don't put words in my mouth. Bush policies suxx...underfunded NCLB, Iraq...etc. But those are all Hill's fault?

Hey, did Obama vote on those issues? What national office did he hold where he voted on these issues?

Yes, because any one of us could see, especially when you looked at his past history as a businessman, that Bush was an incompetent boob who screwed up everything he touched. And yet, she supported him anyway.

If any one of us could see it, why couldn't she? You know, since she's got major qualifications and is so experienced and all. :rolleyes:

Oh, wait, you couldn't see it either, since you voted for the imbecile.

As for your other comment, that's just being disengenuous. Attack the man because he wasn't in office at the time. Good tactic. Really dealing with the issues here, aren't we Spydie?

And instead of saying...it was my fault. She blames others for pulling one over on her.

.

She seems to get bamboozled pretty easily, doesn't she? Especially for someone with her extensive resume and experience.

"Nobody could have ever foreseen that Bush would be such an incompetent f^&kwit".

I don't know why he's the ONE but the way you can tell is that he's the only one that radiates light as he speaks and you hear harps and angelic singing in the backfround, or patriotic songs, depending on your personal preference. (How's he do that anyhow?)

This is what you initially said.



since then, you've backtracked and expanded on your initial statement, but this is what you began with. "Obama was born a Muslim".

Not, "According to Islam, Obama was..............."


Ha Ha Ha. You had me going. For a while there I thought you might have been trying to be serious.

Yeah, that's right Mr. Literal guy, those are my words.

Do you think the power to declare someone a Muslim resides with me. Here, I'll give it a try. By these words, I now declare Barack O is a muslim, because I say he was born one!

Hey this is cool. Watch this! I'm going to make the Sun come up tomorrow.

"Tomorrow the sun will rise in the East."

Wait a minute, I just noticed something about your post. I didn't "said" anything. I wrote it. You wrote that I "said" something. Care to explain that Literal guy? Or maybe you'd like to back track on that one, huh? HA HA HA HA!

BTW, ...was born a Muslim, is not the same as ...is a Muslim.

She seems to get bamboozled pretty easily, doesn't she? Especially for someone with her extensive resume and experience.

"Nobody could have ever foreseen that Bush would be such an incompetent f^&kwit".

I wonder if Bill ever made Hillary wear a blue dress.... role play et al
..... sick thought really... maybe she made Bill wear a blue dress...
that seems more likely.... retribution et al... I'm just thinking out loud...carry on...

/ The Shrillary record of flippity flopp is looking worse and worse.....

I wonder if Bill ever made Hillary wear a blue dress.... role play et al
..... sick thought really... maybe she made Bill wear a blue dress...
that seems more likely.... retribution et al... I'm just thinking out loud...carry on...

/ The Shrillary record of flippity flopp is looking worse and worse.....

The way the fickle left has turned on the Clintons redefines flippity flop. :)

I don't know why he's the ONE but the way you can tell is that he's the only one that radiates light as he speaks and you hear harps and angelic singing in the backfround, or patriotic songs, depending on your personal preference. (How's he do that anyhow?)

Must be the superpowers he got by being born Muslim.

Absolutely, this source (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/015222.php) deals directly with the apostacy of the Senator.

You original link only claimed he attended a Muslim school. But your link also corrected themselves.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/015227.php
"As Allahpundit points out at Hot Air, Obama's camp says he was never a Muslim. A statement there says: "To be clear, Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ in Chicago. Furthermore, the Indonesian school Obama attended in Jakarta is a public school that is not and never has been a Madrassa."

So apparently AP has quietly corrected its story. How the error could have come about in the first place, I'm not sure. But this story should be laid to rest once and for all, and this candidate evaluated on his merits or lack thereof."

So now you know, Islam has no reason, just or unjust, to consider him an apostate.

Must be the superpowers he got by being born Muslim.

He was? Does that mean that if he loses he's gonna blow one of his kids up to kill Hillary?

Ha Ha Ha. You had me going. For a while there I thought you might have been trying to be serious.

Yeah, that's right Mr. Literal guy, those are my words.

Do you think the power to declare someone a Muslim resides with me.

It depends on your definition of "declare". You can falsely declare, as you have, that someone is a Muslim.

I couldn't be more serious.

Muslim, Christian, etc., it's all a lie.

Religion is a comfort to people, as is morphine or any other opiate. But like a drug, religion seperates the spirit from true experience, which is why it causes problems for the individual and the collective.

Religion becomes ingrained in the individual thru emotional attachment. Want proof? Tell someone their religion is false. Odds are you'll witness their emotional reaction.

Saying that it is responsible for all sadness is rich. You don't consider accidents, diseases, random crime, etc. Of course, religion is emotional and there is little proof. It's based on faith and there is nothing wrong with that provided it does not damage others.

It depends on your definition of "declare". You can falsely declare, as you have, that someone is a Muslim.

No need to attack the messenger fella. Pssst, when I was doing that whole "declare" thingy, I was actually just mocking someone, not actually declaring anything. What I did do in an actual post was state a fact, which is that Barack O was born a Muslim.

Besides, is there some reason why being born a Muslim is a problem?

You guys are so sensitive about the truth. Can't state the fact that he was born a Muslim. Can't even utter his middle name. Can't point out that he's been a member of a hate mongering church for 20 years. Can't mention that he has no experience running anything. Can't mention anything about the guy besides he's the only one who can save the world.

Anyway don't worry, he's no longer a Muslim. Now he's an apostate, and a member of a racist Christian church. Not too shabby.

a member of a racist Christian church. Not too shabby.

try researching Rod Parsley sometime..

you're insinuating what you'd like to believe about BO...that he's some sort of Islamofacist or racist....when in fact reality does not spell that out. you hide behind the "facts" but don't seem to realize that in bringing them up (repeatedly) you're just insinuating and projecting what you'd like to believe....truth or not.

in this case, the facts don't add up to your conclusions about the man. sorry.

now let me know what you find out about Rod Parsley...

Hard to argue with that. Given the current popularity of the Prez and the Congress, I'd say that we're inching our way towards a legitamate attempt at getting a 3rd party. It would take a charismatic guy like Barack to roll the dice on blowing himself up.

Or...an insanely wealthy guy like Bloomberg who is friends with a certain disenchanted realist named Hagel.

/just sayin'

Doubtful. what's the difference between the delegates? 150?

The process will go forward. Depending how badly the loser loses in the coming primaries will determine who drops out.

Oregon...that's another 30. ...

[QUOTE=jbrumm What I did do in an actual post was state a fact, which is that Barack O was born a Muslim.[/QUOTE]
And I asked you to provide some proof; some Islamic law. It's possible I was naive in thinking from the tone of your post ("In the eyes of Islam") you had some actual knowledge on the subject. I was anticipating learning something about Islamic law.
But all you did was post a link to a story, about a story, while ignoring the correction to the story right within the link.
Do you have a legitimate link to a legitimate authority on Islamic law to support your claim?

He was? Does that mean that if he loses he's gonna blow one of his kids up to kill Hillary?

because everyone knows that every single Muslim is extremist in their beliefs....right? :confused:

just like every Texan is an oil-addicted sheep breeder..

Saying that it is responsible for all sadness is rich. You don't consider accidents, diseases, random crime, etc. Of course, religion is emotional and there is little proof. It's based on faith and there is nothing wrong with that provided it does not damage others.

If you want to pick up what I'm putting down, you are going to have to follow along closer. I never wrote anything about sadness. I wrote about unhappiness, big difference. Words mean something.

The things you mention above cause grief or as you say sadness, but they are not unhappiness. It's why they call them grief counsellors and not unhappiness counsellors. (Okay, unhappiness counsellor is a bit unwieldy so that probably has something to do with that one.)

The things you mention, that cause grief, will no doubt always happen, accidents, sickness, etc are natural. And as with all natural phenomenom, nature provides a natural solution to allieviate this grief, which is primarily the passing of time. Hence the saying, "time heals all wounds". Meaning both physical and psychological wounds.

Unhappiness is akin to anger. Anger is the emotional response to not getting your way. When you don't get your way you don't get sad, you get angry, which is unhappiness. When you are trained to demand a certain way to things, you will be angry when you come face to face with someone who has been trained to demand a different certain way. Like the Jews and Muslims for instance. When they get together and demand their own way, Bam! There is an angry response, unhappiness is created.

The key to unlocking happiness or contentment is to be trained not to demand a certain way, but to see the Way as nature has intended it, and to act your proper part natrually.

Unfortunately, because the world at present is such a cruel and corrupt place, living with such honesty is not possible. The world would chew you up and spit you out if you attempted to live nature's truth today. So at present we must be outwardly false. To survive in the world we must remain unhappy, in our seperate camps, governed by our religions, always wary of the other ways.

We have temporary bouts of happiness. We're happy when we get a new bike, when the boss gives us a raise, or when we our making love to our wives or husbands, but that happiness is only temporary. Soon we will be unhappy again. Because, that type of happiness is superficial. So even in our moments of happiness, we know subconsciously we're not living honestly, we know the next time we don't get our way, we'll be angry.

That's why we do so many things to distract our conscious or surface selves from our unhappy inner selves. We seek material comfort to assuage our hurt inner feeling, a tension which we know is not natural, but that we can not let go of. We have been taught how to hold on, instead of how to let go. Where did that teaching come from? Religion. Religion teaches us to "Hold on to our way no matter the temptation. Any other way is not the way."

Now I ask you. Can you appreciate how our attachment to our religions have brought unhappiness to the world?

And I asked you to provide some proof; some Islamic law. It's possible I was naive in thinking from the tone of your post ("In the eyes of Islam") you had some actual knowledge on the subject. I was anticipating learning something about Islamic law.
But all you did was post a link to a story, about a story, while ignoring the correction to the story right within the link.
Do you have a legitimate link to a legitimate authority on Islamic law to support your claim?

I'm sure what you meant was a commentary on a story. The commentator's conclusion is that Barack was born a Muslim, converted and is hence an apostate. There was no controversy there. The issue was whether or not modern moderate Muslims would call for his death.

I provided a source about Barack O's apostacy. If you would like to learn more about apostacy, I suspect a quick google search will give you all the information you need. It's pretty cut and dry.

The truth is you don't want to learn anything. You want a source that you can find a problem with, because that will somehow disprove Barack O's father and his father's father were Muslims, which makes Barack O a Muslim at birth according to Islamic law.

His conversion to Christianity, racist church or not, makes him an apostate. Good news is that according to several sources that I have found, he's probably not under death sentence do to his age at the time of his seperation from Muslim father's and practice.

This article (http://www.danielpipes.org/article/5354) will give you more informatio on that matter.

There's no getting around it. Again, what is your problem with it in the first place. There isn't anything to be afraid of from them Muslims, right?

Ha Ha Ha. You had me going. For a while there I thought you might have been trying to be serious.

Yeah, that's right Mr. Literal guy, those are my words.

Do you think the power to declare someone a Muslim resides with me. Here, I'll give it a try. By these words, I now declare Barack O is a muslim, because I say he was born one!

Hey this is cool. Watch this! I'm going to make the Sun come up tomorrow.

"Tomorrow the sun will rise in the East."

Wait a minute, I just noticed something about your post. I didn't "said" anything. I wrote it. You wrote that I "said" something. Care to explain that Literal guy? Or maybe you'd like to back track on that one, huh? HA HA HA HA!

BTW, ...was born a Muslim, is not the same as ...is a Muslim.

and yet, some ME philosophy that you couldn't give two craps about says he is, so he must be, because they say so.

You don't have the power to declare him a Muslim, but they do? I think there's only one person who has the power to declare Obama a Muslim, and that's Obama. And he says he's not. So, end of discussion, and this kind of tainting by association thing you're going after.

The way the fickle left has turned on the Clintons redefines flippity flop. :)

And you're being completely disengenuous. You look back into the past a bit, and You won't find too many of us who were ever too enamored of Hillary. And you know that.

And there were an equal number of us willing to condemn ol' Billy for diddling Monica. just didn't think it warranted the witch-hunt that you guys made it into.

The key to unlocking happiness or contentment is to be trained not to demand a certain way, but to see the Way as nature has intended it, and to act your proper part natrually.

Unfortunately, because the world at present is such a cruel and corrupt place, living with such honesty is not possible. The world would chew you up and spit you out if you attempted to live nature's truth today. So at present we must be outwardly false. To survive in the world we must remain unhappy, in our seperate camps, governed by our religions, always wary of the other ways.

We have temporary bouts of happiness. We're happy when we get a new bike, when the boss gives us a raise, or when we our making love to our wives or husbands, but that happiness is only temporary. Soon we will be unhappy again. Because, that type of happiness is superficial. So even in our moments of happiness, we know subconsciously we're not living honestly, we know the next time we don't get our way, we'll be angry.

That's why we do so many things to distract our conscious or surface selves from our unhappy inner selves. We seek material comfort to assuage our hurt inner feeling, a tension which we know is not natural, but that we can not let go of. We have been taught how to hold on, instead of how to let go. Where did that teaching come from? Religion. Religion teaches us to "Hold on to our way no matter the temptation. Any other way is not the way."



DFH.

:p

"I provided a source about Barack O's apostacy."[/QUOTE]
Your source didn't answer the question. I was hoping you could quote some Islamic law, or any Muslim POV on whether he was ever considered a Muslim. The premise of your "apostate" theory has to answer to Islamic law, not your or anyone else's opinion.
Even if we accept his father was in any way or level a Muslim, even if we accept he was exposed to Muslim teachings, or visited a mosque, you still haven't explained how Muslim's define who's an official Muslim. Are you born into it? Do you get the Islamic equivalent of a baptism? Is there a ceremony?
That's what I wanted to learn. I could look it up, but I thought you knew enough to save me some time.

You original link only claimed he attended a Muslim school. But your link also corrected themselves.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/015227.php
"As Allahpundit points out at Hot Air, Obama's camp says he was never a Muslim. A statement there says: "To be clear, Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ in Chicago. Furthermore, the Indonesian school Obama attended in Jakarta is a public school that is not and never has been a Madrassa."

So apparently AP has quietly corrected its story. How the error could have come about in the first place, I'm not sure. But this story should be laid to rest once and for all, and this candidate evaluated on his merits or lack thereof."

So now you know, Islam has no reason, just or unjust, to consider him an apostate.


Wow, let me slow it down for you. That was not my source. That is a link that was on the page of my source. The source is a commentary on an AP story that was I you say corrected by the AP, appearently because the Obama campaign asked them to.

The only part of the AP story in the commentary is too short paragraphs near the beginning, which serves as grounding for the commentary that follows. The AP's take on the matter is not the expert view of the Islamic law, it merely sets up the fact that the issue of Obama being a Muslim has made the news. But then I think you know that because instead of cutting and pasting the correction you post what another blogger says concerning a statement from Obama's campaign's

Here's the correction as it is on the link you posted.

February 12, 2007
Obama Update: AP story altered
Here is the first paragraph of the story I commented on early this morning:

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Sunday he does not think voters have a litmus test on religion, whether evangelical Christianity or his childhood years in the Muslim faith.
Now it says this (thanks to Hot Air):

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Sunday he does not think voters have a litmus test on religion, whether evangelical Christianity or his childhood years in a largely Muslim country.

Now it would appear that Obama's campaign figured out something that you seem to instinctively know, which is that it would be BAD for Obama to have the "Muslim" label attached to him in anyway.

The commentator who provided the basis in Islam for Obama's apostacy in the source that I posted not the update that you cherry picked from, makes a single statement about the correction, which is this:

So apparently AP has quietly corrected its story. How the error could have come about in the first place, I'm not sure. But this story should be laid to rest once and for all, and this candidate evaluated on his merits or lack thereof.

He seems to be asking the same question I asked, Why the error in the 1st place, let's take him at his campaign's word.

Summary, The important part was the commentary, not the story, Story corrected under interesting circumstances. Changes nothing about the Islamic rules of apostacy.

Buddy, you can jump thru whatever hoops you feel like it. Facts are stubborn things. Barack was born a Muslim according to Islamic law and then converted to christianity when you took up with Trinity United.

Of course it's going to the floor. That's what's so ridiculous. Instead of slitting the party's throat, Richardson's endorsement should be viewed a a turning point to putting this dispute to bed so they can focus on winning in November.

That's laughable.......

neither of them could lose the next primaries by enough to drop out.

This is going to the floor.

2 votes....deadlocked.........no one gets the nomination.
after the second vote, the delegates are no longer committed.

Then it becomes a mess.

Len

"I provided a source about Barack O's apostacy."
Your source didn't answer the question. I was hoping you could quote some Islamic law, or any Muslim POV on whether he was ever considered a Muslim. The premise of your "apostate" theory has to answer to Islamic law, not your or anyone else's opinion.
Even if we accept his father was in any way or level a Muslim, even if we accept he was exposed to Muslim teachings, or visited a mosque, you still haven't explained how Muslim's define who's an official Muslim. Are you born into it? Do you get the Islamic equivalent of a baptism? Is there a ceremony?
That's what I wanted to learn. I could look it up, but I thought you knew enough to save me some time.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I got a little defensive, I understand your question better now.

Yes, you're born into it on your father's side.

Barack was born a Muslim according to Islamic law and then converted to christianity when you took up with Trinity United.

Then Islamic law should be the source you quote. I'm not saying he is or isn't a Muslim according to Islamic law. And I'm not hung up on whether it's good or bad for him or his campaign.
I'm saying you failed to end this conversation early on by posting a quote from Islamic law stating a person in Obama's position is or ever was considered a Muslim.

Then Islamic law should be the source you quote. I'm not saying he is or isn't a Muslim according to Islamic law. And I'm not hung up on whether it's good or bad for him or his campaign.
I'm saying you failed to end this conversation early on by posting a quote from Islamic law stating a person in Obama's position is or ever was considered a Muslim.

Please excuse the long cut and paste but this seems to bear on the question and answer it pretty well.

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=3&ID=8202&CATE=250

SunniPath > Answers > Shafi''i Fiqh > Marriage > Religious upbringing of children in Muslim-Christian marriages

Question ID:8202
Date Published: January 17, 2006
Religious upbringing of children in Muslim-Christian marriages
Answered by Shaykh Hamza Karamali, SunniPath Academy Teacher
Question:
Dear Sir or Madam,

I have a question concerning religious education of children in Muslim-Christian partnerships.

I know that the dominant opinion among the Muslim community is that these children have to be raised solely as Muslims. As far as I am aware, this is not explicitly stated in the Qur’an, but based on the following assumptions:
1) Every child is a Muslim at birth. Only the parents and/or its environment make it to follow any other religion than Islam. Thus, the inherent and therefore right religion of every child is Islam.
2) The Qur’an explicitly states how children should be taught about religion e.g. with regard to learning prayers at a certain age etc. Because these are general statements, children born to parents who are not both Muslims are no exception either. These rules also exclude the Christian partner from teaching the children about her religion in the same way as the Muslim partner is obliged to do.
3) A Muslim man can marry a Jewish or Christian wife, but not the other way round. In the male-dominated society at the time of Prophet Muhammad, it was supposed that a Muslim woman might experience difficulties in practising her religion having a husband who would not acknowledge Islam and its Prophet, whereas a Muslim husband would appreciate Judaism and Christianity and thus ensure that his Jewish/Christian wife could continue practising her religion. However, the husband’s dominance over his family would also imply that children would be brought up in his religion. Thus, the tolerance of a Muslim husband towards his wife practising her religion would not entail her passing on this religion to the children.

Leaving aside all practical and emotional difficulties arising from this “Islam only” stance with regard to education of children for Muslim-Christian marriages, I am aware that there are also Islamic theological positions justifying the teaching of both religions to children (and subsequently allowing them to choose one themselves once they are old enough).

Would you, please, let me know what verses in the Qur’an these are based upon and how their theological reasoning is? I would be grateful if you could, please, go into some detail in this. Also, it would be interesting to know which respected scholars hold this opinion.

Thank you very much for your help.
Answer:

In the Name of God, Most Merciful and Compassionate

Thank you for your question. I pray that this message finds you in the best of health and spirits.

The tolerance of Islam to other religions is--as you point out in your question--borne out in the permissibility of Muslim men to marry Christian or Jewish women. The nature of a successful marriage relationship is one of friendship, love, and genuine concern for one's spouse, and non-Muslim wives are not an exception to this rule.

However, there is a difference between one's non-Muslim wife and between one's child from the non-Muslim wife. The wife is a mature adult who has the ability to reason things for herself and then choose her own belief. Her God-given ability to reason implies the freedom to choose her faith. God Almighty says in the Qur'an, "Let whosoever wishes believe, and let whosoever wishes disbelieve." (18:29)

Children do not have the ability to reason independently. Rather, they are innocent pieces of clay waiting to be moulded into whatever form their parents desire. Parents are responsible to give them the best upbringing possible to best prepare them for their lives as adults. It is not, for example, acceptable for the father to neglect educating his child and to say instead that "he can grow up and learn to read and write if he wants to." For him to not educate his child would put the child at a tremendous disadvantage when he grows up. This would constitute parental neglect.

Muslims believe that God gave all humans the ability to freely choose whatever faith they please. This freedom of choice does not, however, imply that they believe every choice to be equally good. A Muslim father believes that his Christian wife has the freedom to choose her faith. But he also believes that her choice is not the best one--that's why he retains his Muslim faith.

For a Muslim father not to give his child a Muslim upbringing would therefore constitute parental neglect on his part because the child will be at a disadvantage compared to other children who will have a "head start" over him through their Muslim upbringing. For this reason, Islam does not permit the father to neglect giving his children a Muslim upbringing.

It is important to remember, though, that a Muslim upbringing does not force a child to live his entire life as a Muslim. A Muslim upbringing simply prepares the ground for the child's adulthood. Ultimately, when the child reaches maturity, he will make his own decision regarding which faith to follow. Belief is something in people's hearts and is beyond the reach of compulsion.

I hope this answer helps clarify matters for you. Please don't hesitate to follow up with further questions if something remains unclear.

Sincerely,

Hamza.

Then Islamic law should be the source you quote. I'm not saying he is or isn't a Muslim according to Islamic law. And I'm not hung up on whether it's good or bad for him or his campaign.
I'm saying you failed to end this conversation early on by posting a quote from Islamic law stating a person in Obama's position is or ever was considered a Muslim.

Fair enough. And, you point is now well taken.

You are born into it if your father was a naturally born Muslim, or you convert by saying and meaning in your heart: "There is no true god but God and Muhammad is the Messenger of God.”

Yes, because any one of us could see, especially when you looked at his past history as a businessman, that Bush was an incompetent boob who screwed up everything he touched. And yet, she supported him anyway.

If any one of us could see it, why couldn't she? You know, since she's got major qualifications and is so experienced and all. :rolleyes:

Oh, wait, you couldn't see it either, since you voted for the imbecile.

As for your other comment, that's just being disengenuous. Attack the man because he wasn't in office at the time. Good tactic. Really dealing with the issues here, aren't we Spydie?

Rufie,

In 2000 the media didn't expose Bush for the unprincipled fraud he is. The media gave him a pass just like they're giving Obama a pass. I'm not willing to wait to find out what Obama's third 'R' is.

Obama claims he has better judgment, yet he didn't have to cast a vote to stake a position. It's quite easy to take a position when there's nothing at risk.

There are other examples of Obama's ethical lapses...

I think this is a fair cut-
"Children do not have the ability to reason independently. Rather, they are innocent pieces of clay waiting to be moulded into whatever form their parents desire...For a Muslim father not to give his child a Muslim upbringing would therefore constitute parental neglect on his part because the child will be at a disadvantage compared to other children who will have a "head start" over him through their Muslim upbringing. For this reason, Islam does not permit the father to neglect giving his children a Muslim upbringing.

It is important to remember, though, that a Muslim upbringing does not force a child to live his entire life as a Muslim.[/QUOTE]

If I used this as a base, I'd interpretit it as saying Obama's father is guilty of parental neglect and failed to give him the proper Muslim upbringing necessary for him to make his own decision. He was never "moulded".
But the bottom line is none of us can predict how the extremists will choose to interpret the Koran.

Of course it's going to the floor. That's what's so ridiculous. Instead of slitting the party's throat, Richardson's endorsement should be viewed a a turning point to putting this dispute to bed so they can focus on winning in November.

When did Richardson become the voice of the party? When did Richardson get so powerful that he can over-ride my vote? That's what's ridiculous. Who the hell is Richardson? Did Richardson even get 1% in the polls when he tried to run...

But the bottom line is none of us can predict how the extremists will choose to interpret the Koran.

Perhaps not. Extremists are full of surprises. But my guess would be a single word.

Harshly

I think this is a fair cut-
"Children do not have the ability to reason independently. Rather, they are innocent pieces of clay waiting to be moulded into whatever form their parents desire...For a Muslim father not to give his child a Muslim upbringing would therefore constitute parental neglect on his part because the child will be at a disadvantage compared to other children who will have a "head start" over him through their Muslim upbringing. For this reason, Islam does not permit the father to neglect giving his children a Muslim upbringing.

It is important to remember, though, that a Muslim upbringing does not force a child to live his entire life as a Muslim.

If I used this as a base, I'd interpretit it as saying Obama's father is guilty of parental neglect and failed to give him the proper Muslim upbringing necessary for him to make his own decision. He was never "moulded".
But the bottom line is none of us can predict how the extremists will choose to interpret the Koran.[/QUOTE]

My take on it is that even if he had a Muslim upbringing, he is still free to make the choice for himself at some point. I guess that makes him a racist Christian like the rest of us. :)

If you want to pick up what I'm putting down, you are going to have to follow along closer. I never wrote anything about sadness. I wrote about unhappiness, big difference. Words mean something.


Yes, they do. Apparently your definition does not match up with what the word really means.

WordNet: unhappiness
The noun has 2 meanings:
Meaning #1: emotions experienced when not in a state of well-being
Synonym: sadness
Meaning #2: state characterized by emotions ranging from mild discontentment to deep grief
Antonym: happiness (meaning #1)
http://www.answers.com/topic/unhappiness

Definitions of unhappiness on the Web:
* sadness: emotions experienced when not in a state of well-being
* state characterized by emotions ranging from mild discontentment to deep grief
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Main Entry: blues
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: depression
Synonyms: dejection, despondency, doldrums, dumps*, gloom, gloominess, glumness, low spirits, melancholy, moodiness, mournfulness, sadness, unhappiness
Antonyms: euphoria, glee, happiness, joy
Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.3.1)
http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/unhappiness

un·hap·py (n-hp)
adj. un·hap·pi·er, un·hap·pi·est
1. Not happy or joyful; sad or sorrowful: unhappy over his friend's departure.
2. Not satisfied; displeased or discontented: unhappy with her raise.
3. Not attended by or bringing good fortune; unlucky.
4. Not suitable; inappropriate: an unhappy choice of words.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/unhappiness



Main Entry: un·hap·py Listen to the pronunciation of unhappy
Pronunciation: \-ˈha-pē\
Function: adjective
Date: 14th century
1: not fortunate : unlucky <an unhappy coincidence>2: not cheerful or glad : sad, wretched3 a: causing or subject to misfortune : inauspicious b: infelicitous, inappropriate <an unhappy choice>
— un·hap·pi·ness noun
http://mw4.m-w.com/dictionary/unhappiness

There are other examples of Obama's ethical lapses...
No, nothing at all. Just the future of his political career. Not many people -- your girl included -- had the ballz to stand up to Bush re Iraq. I hope you're not going to try and rewrite history to change that little episode around.

Btw, I wrote you a long-ass response in this thread last night. Hope you saw it.

No, nothing at all. Just the future of his political career. Not many people -- your girl included -- had the ballz to stand up to Bush re Iraq. I hope you're not going to try and rewrite history to change that little episode around.

Btw, I wrote you a long-ass response in this thread last night. Hope you saw it.

Obama wasn't a Senator during the time the decision was made to invade Iraq. Was he dodging sniper fire when he "stood up to Bush re Iraq?"

Please...how can she control the funding of NCLB? How is it her fault the Bush programs and policies, such as NCLB, were failures due to incompetence? Again, I guess the failures of 'the Bush' are Hillary's fault? Good one.

You keep mentioning a lack of funding. Money is not the problem with NoChildGetsAhead.
That's like riding a bamboo bike (...with cracked frame and fork, no saddle, rusted chain, broken bar, missing brakes, busted derailleurs, front and back) and claiming that your man lost the race because the head soigneur didn't put enough air into the tires. Senator Clinton should have kept the Madone.
Even better, she should have advocated a return to classic Italian steel on this one. It carried all of us 20 years ago, it would still carry us now. It's true for both education and bikes: Steel is real.

Obama wasn't a Senator during the time the decision was made to invade Iraq. Was he dodging sniper fire when he "stood up to Bush re Iraq?"
Yeah, I know that. But it doesn't mean he didn't entail risk by taking that stance. We've been through this ad nauseam. The Republicans created an atmosphere in which it was unpatriotic to go against the President. That's why just about any politician with any aspiration voted for it. See Kerry, Edwards, Clinton, Biden, etc.

While Obama was not a senator yet, the risk for him was the same as it was for the aforementioned. It just so happens that he was right to begin with, and after the catastrophe that Iraq has become, the majority of Americans have come to agree with him. If the war had gone the way you guys somehow thought/hoped it would have, I can't imagine he'd have much of a political career at this point.

When did Richardson become the voice of the party? When did Richardson get so powerful that he can over-ride my vote? That's what's ridiculous. Who the hell is Richardson? Did Richardson even get 1% in the polls when he tried to run...

if your so worried about your vote being over ridden maybe you ought to become a superdelegate....then you could over ride the majority and feel smug in your omnipotence...

You keep mentioning a lack of funding. Money is not the problem with NoChildGetsAhead.
That's like riding a bamboo bike (...with cracked frame and fork, no saddle, rusted chain, broken bar, missing brakes, busted derailleurs, front and back) and claiming that your man lost the race because the head soigneur didn't put enough air into the tires. Senator Clinton should have kept the Madone.
Even better, she should have advocated a return to classic Italian steel on this one. It carried all of us 20 years ago, it would still carry us now. It's true for both education and bikes: Steel is real.

Thanks for that! I really needed a good laugh today and this was just perfect...

Steel is real... Keepin' it real!

if your so worried about your vote being over ridden maybe you ought to become a superdelegate....then you could over ride the majority and feel smug in your omnipotence...

Right now it's a very slim majority, and Obama has a major problem with his spiritual leader of 20 years.

If we think the Obama sitch is acceptable, then perhaps David Duke should run for office in 2012?

Thanks for that! I really needed a good laugh today and this was just perfect...

Steel is real... Keepin' it real!

See now I had that same kind of gut busting guffaw after reading all about Hillary's exploits in Bosnia. I mean I can see Bill sending Hillary into a hail of sniper fire...but Sinbad...he's a national treasure.

Right now it's a very slim majority, and Obama has a major problem with his spiritual leader of 20 years.

If we think the Obama sitch is acceptable, then perhaps David Duke should run for office in 2012?

do the math..shrillary won't have the delagates or the majority...parties over...she didn't have a Plan B and got smacked....good riddance, 8 years of no Plan B is more than enough

do the math..shrillary won't have the delagates or the majority...parties over...she didn't have a Plan B and got smacked....good riddance, 8 years of no Plan B is more than enough

"Shillary" huh? Well, perhaps Barack "Hussein" Obama should cut ties with his hate-filled racist spiritual leader of 20 years.

Pastor Wright has the same views of Saddam Hussein, and look at what we did to Saddam?

All name-calling rhetoric aside, are we really gonna nominate someone who doesn't stand a chance at winning the general again? The Democrats are getting pretty good at this...:rolleyes:

All name-calling rhetoric aside, are we really gonna nominate someone who doesn't stand a chance at winning the general again? The Democrats are getting pretty good at this...:rolleyes:
And you think Hillary stands a chance? Are you insane? She hasn't even begun to see the full assault of the Republican hate machine. They've got too many decades off ammo to throw at her.

Are you also ignoring how 44% of registered voters think she lacks integrity?

And you think Hillary stands a chance? Are you insane? She hasn't even begun to see the full assault of the Republican hate machine. They've got too many decades off ammo to throw at her.

Are you also ignoring how 44% of registered voters think she lacks integrity?

those are just numbers....polls don't mean anything.... remember she was ahead of Barak by double digits just 4 months ago and now she's losing but she has the momentum!....

She dodged sniper fire for her country goddamnit!!

She dodged sniper fire for her country goddamnit!!
Oh yeah! Totally forgot. I love Hillary.

Oh yeah! Totally forgot. I love Hillary.

That's better.....

/ I wonder if she even owns any blue dresses???

Hmm, I never noticed this, but Obama rhymes with Osama, his middle name is the same as Saddam's last name, and his first name Barack rhymes with Iraq...

Oh my!

Perhaps the Prophet Obama is our destiny?

"Shillary" huh? Well, perhaps Barack "Hussein" Obama should cut ties with his hate-filled racist spiritual leader of 20 years.

Does Hillary even have a spiritual leader?:skep:

those are just numbers....polls don't mean anything.... remember she was ahead of Barak by double digits just 4 months ago and now she's losing but she has the momentum!....

She dodged sniper fire for her country goddamnit!!
Chelsea was in harm's way on that trip forheavenssakes!!!!

Hmm, I never noticed this, but Obama rhymes with Osama, his middle name is the same as Saddam's last name, and his first name Barack rhymes with Iraq...

Oh my!

Perhaps the Prophet Obama is our destiny?

you hit the trifecta!..... I concede, Sniper Dodging Hillary is Destiny.....

She's got McCain squarely in her sights.... "POW, pppsssaahhhh, I was dodging snipers in Bosnia while you were sipping lattes in Washington".... oops, except she wasn't... tough to remember the little details in life...like being worried about getting shot at....

Spidey, Hillary voted FOR the Iraq war. You are against the war. How can you support someone like her?

Spidey, Hillary voted FOR the Iraq war. You are against the war. How can you support someone like her?

Truthfully, I was angry at her for not recanting her vote, but I understand why she didn't and can't now.

Rufie,

In 2000 the media didn't expose Bush for the unprincipled fraud he is. The media gave him a pass just like they're giving Obama a pass. I'm not willing to wait to find out what Obama's third 'R' is.

...

Don't blame the media for your failure to learn anything about George Bush before voting