AGAIN!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080328/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush

By TERENCE HUNT, AP White House Correspondent
6 minutes ago



WASHINGTON - President Bush says the recent increase in violence in oil-rich southern Iraqi and parts of Baghdad presents "a defining moment in the history of Iraq" as the government seeks to rout out Shiite militias.


"It's going to take awhile:crazy: , but it's a necessary part of the development of a free society," Bush said at a White House news confernce with visiting Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd.

Bush's comments followed U.S. airstrikes in both the southern city of Basra and in a Shiite militia stronghold in Baghdad. The renewed violence came as tensions rose among followers of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr angered by a crackdown that has threatened to unravel a militia cease-fire.

who represent the majority of Iraqis, especially in the South. If the Mahdi Army calls of the cease fire it's gonna get ugly.

but hey, last throes right?

who represent the majority of Iraqis, especially in the South. If the Mahdi Army calls of the cease fire it's gonna get ugly.

but hey, last throes right?

The cease fire came ahead of and because of, the surge. It was inevitable that they would work out a permanant agreement which would have to include disarming or there will never be peace and a strong Iraqi government. You can see this as you wish but it was an inevitability all along. If there is heavy fighting, the outcome will be the same, the militias will be disarmed and destroyed in the end. The question has always been one of relative strength between those armed tribal units and a central government in Iraq. For there to be a lasting solution, the government has to be in control and it sounds as if they are now to a point they are ready to exert that control with the help of the American forces now there.

as-is the mahdi army, kinda hard toroot out the majority
the cultural history is along tribal alliances
we have used such to organize Sunni's in the North to fight Al Q Iraq.
We are using such to some success in fighting theTaliban / Al Q in Afghanistan.

as for the Govt.getting strong enough to overpower and disarm them, don't hold your breathe on that one

lasting solution...,that is just funny

It isn't about the majority armed faction, the government will still be Shia dominated but they are the ones who are elected and should be in control. If they cannot take and maintain control, it will be chaos until some strongman like Saddam does so.

as-is the mahdi army, kinda hard toroot out the majority
the cultural history is along tribal alliances
we have used such to organize Sunni's in the North to fight Al Q Iraq.
We are using such to some success in fighting theTaliban / Al Q in Afghanistan.

as for the Govt.getting strong enough to overpower and disarm them, don't hold your breathe on that one

lasting solution...,that is just funny


Or you can look at it this way. Moqtada's ceasefire is still in effect, but he wants to get rid of certain factions within the Jaish El Mehdi that don't see things the way he sees things. He gave a pretty good speech the other day calling for restraint. Lets suppose that the Maliki government has cut a deal with Moqtada. This is the best way for the Mailiki government to show it can take care of business and the best way for Moqtada to get rid of people that don't want to engage in the political process. Maliki goes down to Basra (where he has been the last couple of days) and is shown employing his own troops to bring order to Basra. The brits are staying out of it, minus providing air support. As are US troops, minus air support.

Looks like a win win situation for Maliki and Sadr if the Iraqi security forces can get control of Basra.

Don't get me wrong, I am skeptical about the Iraqi Army's ability to go at this alone. Have seen then turn and run one too many times when they realize big brother is not right on their tail. So far in Basra, only the local police have run. Looks like the Army, backed by air support, is doing just fine in Basra.

If they are unable to bring order to Basra and then to Sadr City (if Sadr City flares up), then we are in trouble. This could make Lebanon's militia wars of the 80s look like child's play

It isn't about the majority armed faction, the government will still be Shia dominated but they are the ones who are elected and should be in control. If they cannot take and maintain control, it will be chaos until some strongman like Saddam does so.

Right, 4,000 Americans dead so the politics in Iraq can go full circle and the people can be oppressed by yet another dictator. And, who is that supports the troops?

Get this straight. None of this was inevitable. None. It only was inevitable when a stupid president backed by stupid Americans sent young people to fight a stupid war for no reason. Then and only then did a stupid result become inevitable.

Right, 4,000 Americans dead so the politics in Iraq can go full circle and the people can be oppressed by yet another dictator. And, who is that supports the troops?

Get this straight. None of this was inevitable. None. It only was inevitable when a stupid president backed by stupid Americans sent young people to fight a stupid war for no reason. Then and only then did a stupid result become inevitable.

Lets see, another Dictator that will make Saddam look like a little kid. All this for a Shrub legacy. Bet, most of the Iraqis would love to have Saddam back after this mess.

If they cannot take and maintain control, it will be chaos until some strongman like Saddam does so.

Stumbling onto the truth can be painful.

Stumbling onto the truth can be painful.

I don't know what you think you have discovered here. I don't believe I have ever had a different message or view of what we are about. We see it through or it is screwed and it was always so. It's why McCain will be elected in spite of his failings.

I don't know what you think you have discovered here. I don't believe I have ever had a different message or view of what we are about. We see it through or it is screwed and it was always so. It's why McCain will be elected in spite of his failings.

Iraq is why McCain won't be elected despite his qualities.

Iraq is why McCain won't be elected despite his qualities.

I guess we'll see, I think that is his strength.

I guess we'll see, I think that is his strength.

McSHRUB getting a free ride right now, and still just even. AND he still trips over his own tongue all the time.

Once the dust clears, and Obama is the nominee, he will go up to most likely a 5-10 point lead.

McShrub is TOO OLD! Knows nothing about economics, Corrupt to the hilt, Flip-Flops all the time. Only thing he has going is his pumped up war hero thingy...Woopy!

McSHRUB getting a free ride right now, and still just even. AND he still trips over his own tongue all the time.

Once the dust clears, and Obama is the nominee, he will go up to most likely a 5-10 point lead.

McShrub is TOO OLD! Knows nothing about economics, Corrupt to the hilt, Flip-Flops all the time. Only thing he has going is his pumped up war hero thingy...Woopy!


2 biggest issues are thewar and the economy

McSame wants to stay in Iraq another 100 years

McSame admits he doesn't understand the economy but thinks if we deregulate the financial institutions it will cure the mortgage crisis

I tell ya,that is a winning 1-2 punch

McSHRUB getting a free ride right now, and still just even. AND he still trips over his own tongue all the time.

Once the dust clears, and Obama is the nominee, he will go up to most likely a 5-10 point lead.

McShrub is TOO OLD! Knows nothing about economics, Corrupt to the hilt, Flip-Flops all the time. Only thing he has going is his pumped up war hero thingy...Woopy!


2 biggest issues are thewar and the economy

McSame wants to stay in Iraq another 100 years

McSame admits he doesn't understand the economy but thinks if we deregulate the financial institutions it will cure the mortgage crisis

I tell ya,that is a winning 1-2 punch

2 biggest issues are thewar and the economy

McSame wants to stay in Iraq another 100 years

McSame admits he doesn't understand the economy but thinks if we deregulate the financial institutions it will cure the mortgage crisis

I tell ya,that is a winning 1-2 punch

I just had to add this again. After what Shrub did to McSame in 2000, he flip-flops and kisses up to this loser like a little girl. The dems should run this over and over, its a winner!
Maybe I'll attach this to all my post, you know, just like cut & paste cherry pick Steamy does with his racist Wright crap.

I just had to add this again. After what Shrub did to McSame in 2000, he flip-flops and kisses up to this loser like a little girl. The dems should run this over and over, its a winner!
Maybe I'll attach this to all my post, you know, just like cut & paste cherry pick Steamy does with his racist Wright crap.

HeyJohn, THAT'S THE GUY WHO SAID YOU WENT CRAZY IN NAM
THAT'S THE GUY WHO TALKED ABOUT YOU 'COLORED' KID

I respect his service as a soldier
I don't respect his service in govt
I have no respect for him as a father and a man

he should have pulled ashiv right there. look at how easy a shot to the liver would have been.

[QUOTE=Snakebit If they cannot take and maintain control, it will be chaos until some strongman like Saddam does so.[/QUOTE]

Good thought. Let's get the coalition's occupation forces out, allow a new strongman to take over, and then we can invade Irag again. This plan will allow us to claim the current invasion was just a practice exercise to prepare for the real one. Then we can claim we didn't surrender and all this country's patriots can rejoice about the job well done and work themselves into a frenzy over the prospects for another war.

Of course there'll be the need to justify the ruined country; millions of dead, wounded, and displaced folks; and the waste of paying billions/trillions in failed reconstruction blood money to the Bush administration's business cronies. But, hey, they talked most of the "proud to be 'mericans" into the trial run, so they should be able to cover their tracks.

HeyJohn, THAT'S THE GUY WHO SAID YOU WENT CRAZY IN NAM
THAT'S THE GUY WHO TALKED ABOUT YOU 'COLORED' KID

I respect his service as a soldier
I don't respect his service in govt
I have no respect for him as a father and a man

he should have pulled ashiv right there. look at how easy a shot to the liver would have been.

Just coasting right now, thinking he has a chance. Once the dem's have Obama, Shilliary can't win, all the stops will be pulled out on McSame and expose all his corruption.
Still can't believe he's kissing Shrubs ass, after what went on on 2000. Just a FLIP-FLOP, I'll do anything to win, even if I have to be Butt-buddies with Shrub.

Just coasting right now, thinking he has a chance. Once the dem's have Obama, Shilliary can't win, all the stops will be pulled out on McSame and expose all his corruption.
Still can't believe he's kissing Shrubs ass, after what went on on 2000. Just a FLIP-FLOP, I'll do anything to win, even if I have to be Butt-buddies with Shrub.

Oh yeah! Barrack Hussein Obama and Reverend Wright will win the day for the libs. Pull outa eyerack post haste. Yeah, that's a winner for ya. Y'all know how to pick 'em.

"Reporting for Duty"

:) :)

I'm glad you see Wright as a racist too.

Oh yeah! Barrack Hussein Obama and Reverend Wright will win the day for the libs. Pull outa eyerack post haste. Yeah, that's a winner for ya. Y'all know how to pick 'em.

"Reporting for Duty"

:) :)

You are finally going to suit up and show up and let one of those poo kids who don't want to be there come home? Great. See you. Report for duty ASAP.

You are finally going to suit up and show up and let one of those poo kids who don't want to be there come home? Great. See you. Report for duty ASAP.

No danger of running into you, unless we invade Canada. :)

No danger of running into you, unless we invade Canada. :)

Just the mere mention of anyone on here suiting up has scared Sadr into ordering his guys off the street.

I'll send out faux body armor and old ammunition to everyone..

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080330/wl_nm/iraq_dc

Just the mere mention of anyone on here suiting up has scared Sadr into ordering his guys off the street.

I'll send out faux body armor and old ammunition to everyone..

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080330/wl_nm/iraq_dc


so what do you think? Is Sadr putting himself in position to become the next defacto strongman? Do you think he is positioning himself and his followers to be the ones the US has to deal with to establish a LT Iraqi peace plan? I see this as nothing more than that. If it turns out he is the only one who can keep his people in line, they are armed, trained and disciplined what better way to sell it to the US as their way to get out. "Look, at least we can stand down, we're reasonable"
I see the mahdi/mehdi army as the next baathist party.

Is Sadr putting himself in position to become the next defacto strongman? Do you think he is positioning himself and his followers to be the ones the US has to deal with to establish a LT Iraqi peace plan? I see this as nothing more than that. If it turns out he is the only one who can keep his people in line, they are armed, trained and disciplined what better way to sell it to the US as their way to get out. "Look, at least we can stand down, we're reasonable"
I see the mahdi/mehdi army as the next baathist party.

Sistani is the real power player. Al Sadr controls a significant number of disgruntled Shia men, mostly ones who either do not have jobs or were into illegal stuff even during Saddam's era. This time around we haven't had the en masse revolt in the streets of Sadr City and in Basra. Only Sistani controls that kind of power. Sistani has called for mass peacefull protest before, and the people answered. Al Sadr is playing politics as best he can. I don't think we will broker a political deal with Sadr, at least out in the open. Sistani is the one that the Coalition wants the support of. What Sadr (and probably Sistani) wants is to have more power than the other Shia factions. They do not mind that the Maliki government is going into Basra and Sadr city and are bashing heads of the rogue special groups and criminal elements of the other militia. This stuff is complex. As you know, tribal and family lines is where this game is played. But also, money talks. The more the oil infrascture is protected in the south, the better the mainstream Shia groups will play. They don't want their money going to the east (Persia).

Al Sadr does not want a Lebanese style Civil War. Neither does Sistani. AQI started this whole sectarian mess with the bombing of the Mosque in Najaf. AQI has been neutralized in most of the country. That was step one in Al Sadr's agenda. They used us to do this. Step two is for his party to have more control. The only way he can do this if he doesn't shed too much Iraqi blood. Outwardly targeting coalition forces makes his guys a target as well as civilians.

Anyway, this thing is complex. Most of my thought process is dated (5 months old). I stay plugged in various ways, but it doesn't quite work as well as being there.

The next two weeks are going to be interesting. It is apparent to me that the Iraqi army put the hammer down on the bad guys in Basra (with the help of US/Brit close air support). Nothing like bringing down precision fires on guys just milling around the streets who think that Iraqi forces are coming .