wow he is really going to make a lot's of friends in cycling.:thumbsup:
He should go away:D

I was expecting that. They were held out for no ligitimate reason. I certainly dont buy the organizer's excuse that they were busy with so many other teams that they couldn't fit Rock on the roster. You just don't forget about Rock. And besides Astana, who else has as strong of a team?

I'd personally like to see them race.

link!!

I don't necessarily hold with keeping them out of the race, but I gotta say that's a little like suing someone to get your job back. Who'd want to be part of something you had to sue somebody to get into?

link!!


http://www.velonews.com/article/74564/rock-racing-sues-to-get-into-tour-de-georgia

lame article. not very much info. lol.

link!!http://www.velonews.com/article/74564/rock-racing-sues-to-get-into-tour-de-georgia

Not hard to find.

http://www.velonews.com/article/74564/rock-racing-sues-to-get-into-tour-de-georgia

Not hard to find.

I totally beat you.

I totally beat you.DAMN! :rolleyes:

wow he is really going to make a lot's of friends in cycling.:thumbsup:
He should go away:D


Here is a nice piece on the invitation process and how the shuffling takes place.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features.php?id=features/2008/georgia_invites08

Another master piece of Jim Birrell and Medalist Sports 100% BS from him, that's about as piss poor excuse making as you come up with. No surprise at all that Rock Racing is suing them, it's about time that someone has the "balls" to fight back. They should be there no question at all, if only based on the starting line up they would bring. It's not about making friends as moab63 would like, it's about being fair in the selection, which it clearly has not been done. Going away......not a chance.

wow. I don't see who should get knocked off...

is there a field limit imposed?


UCI Pro Tour
Astana Cycling Team (Luxembourg)
Saunier Duval-Scott (Spain)
Team CSC (Denmark)
Team High Road (USA)
Team Gerolsteiner (Germany)

UCI Professional Continental
BMC Racing Team (USA)
Slipstream/Chipotle presented by H30 (USA)

Continental – UCI America Tour
Bissell Pro Cycling (USA)
Health Net presented by Maxxis (USA)
Jelly Belly Cycling Team (USA)
Jittery Joe’s Professional Cycling Team (USA)
Symmetrics Cycling Team (Canada)
Team Type 1 (USA)
Toyota-United Professional Cycling Team (USA)

Continental – UCI Asia Tour
GE/Marco Polo Cycling Team presented by Trek (China)

wow. I don't see who should get knocked off...

is there a field limit imposed?


15 teams is where they set the line based on accomodations/logistics. The biggest issue is lodging and logistics in Northern Georgia. They don't have the hotel space and could spread the teams out, but that would anger the teams with all of the BS around long transfers. I understand this pretty well coming off Brasstown Bald a few years back. Even WITH a police escort it took a long time to get back to my hotel in the shuttle. I only had to file a story, not get up and race a bike for the 5-6 day straight.

I personally enjoy how some people like to to talk mad smack on Birrell. Without Medalist (Jim and Chris) there would be no premiere stage races in North America. Be careful of what you hope for as when these races go away all we'll remember is how cool it was that somebody put together events where the big boys would come play on our playground.

I applaud Rock's determination and can understand the difference between suing to get into a race and suing to get a job back somewhere you're not wanted but races are private invitation only events. If they didn't get an invitation I can't see what basis they could sue the race organization on. If Medalist doesn't want them there then that should be the end of it, Medalist needs no excuse.

The way the sport is set up, there is no obligation for an invite. That has good an bad points.
Mr Ball will argue a verbal contract if I understand the brief VSnoze article. Let the courts decide based on the evidence presented next week. My guess he said vs he said. If so, a weak case. Now if Mr Ball has something in writing or a recorded conversation, well thats a different story.

In the meantime, I say pony up Mr Ball, put on your own dance in your own style and see who comes. Lots of flash, goatheads ( I think thats what they are called), tons of chicks in your pants (obligatory black of course), tons of attitude- no make that megatons of attitude (cause that will save road cycling) A million dollar prize to the winner will get all comers....... Even the guys who aren't too fond of you.:thumbsup:

15 teams is where they set the line based on accomodations/logistics. The biggest issue is lodging and logistics in Northern Georgia.

Wait. Seriously? That's the only consideration? Pfft. If that's the issue, I bet Michael Ball would build a hotel just for the team. :rolleyes:

Wait. Seriously? That's the only consideration? Pfft. If that's the issue, I bet Michael Ball would build a hotel just for the team. :rolleyes:
And a better one!! - TF

wow. I don't see who should get knocked off...

is there a field limit imposed?

Any of the teams listed below, especially GE/Marco Polo, Type 1, Symmetrics, and Jittery Joes. I would say, without a doubt, Rock is above those teams.

Continental – UCI America Tour
Bissell Pro Cycling (USA)
Health Net presented by Maxxis (USA)
Jelly Belly Cycling Team (USA)
Jittery Joe’s Professional Cycling Team (USA)
Symmetrics Cycling Team (Canada)
Team Type 1 (USA)
Toyota-United Professional Cycling Team (USA)

Continental – UCI Asia Tour
GE/Marco Polo Cycling Team presented by Trek (China)

wow he is really going to make a lot's of friends in cycling.:thumbsup:

While I agree with you that it would be nicer for Ball if Rock was just extended an invitation, if Ball wins in Court then he has power. Otherwise, he's dependent on the kindness of others and their opinions of him all the time. Most people in high places are fighters and don't give a $hit what others think of them. You know, you can do this the easy way, or you can do it the hard way, your choice.

He should go away:D

I can understand your desire to see him go away, but obviously Ball hasn't got to be where he is, by taking anyone's desires into account, except when he's selling stuff.

I really don't understand why this sentiment is even expressed.

I don't necessarily hold with keeping them out of the race,

I do, because seeing certain people on that team racing might put thoughts in some specatators heads about the legitimacy of the competition.

but I gotta say that's a little like suing someone to get your job back.

That's not a good analogy at all. What about if you're a boxer who's undefeated and can't get a title shot because of sanctioning organization politics. The boxer wants a shot, not so he can cooperate, but so he can beat the other guys brains in and make money.

In cycling, I mean, look, there's a book called Lance Armstrong's War." This guy used that conflict as fuel. Being a normal decent person is a good thing.

Unfortunately, that comes into conflict with Leo Durocher's observation that "Nice guys finish last."

I agree with you that it's not great to be on adversarial terms with your employer, but what if you're a pilot for a large airline and local management has a grudge against you and you get illegitimately fired. You don't think you should fight to get your job back?


Who'd want to be part of something you had to sue somebody to get into?

You don't think Astana would sue the Tour organizers if they thought they had a shot of getting in this years tour?

Take a look at the possible start list for every team including the Pro Tour Teams and see how many could match the possible Rock Racing start list. If TOG is not about fielding the most competitive teams as Birrell has claimed in previous interviews, then the selection committee really have their heads in the wrong location or again it is pure political payback from Medalist Sports. His logistics excuses stink, you want to put on a world class event and use lack of hotels as a selection criteria.
Possible start list for R&R:
Botero
Sevilla
Pena
Rodriquez
Hamilton
Creed
Grajales
Ollerenshaw

That start list is as good if not better than even some of the Pro Tour Teams and better than the domestic teams.

If that were to be the case, then why doesn't Birrell and Medalists Sports just say so.
"We don't like Michael Ball and his team because they don't fit our idea of what a cycling team should be and we don't want them." In essence that is exactly what he eludes to in the Velonews interview from the March 21st interview: http://www.velonews.com/article/73514
Making piss poor excuses and lame A** logic makes it even worse.

Any of the teams listed below, especially GE/Marco Polo, Type 1, Symmetrics, and Jittery Joes. I would say, without a doubt, Rock is above those teams.

Continental – UCI America Tour
Bissell Pro Cycling (USA)
Health Net presented by Maxxis (USA)
Jelly Belly Cycling Team (USA)
Jittery Joe’s Professional Cycling Team (USA)
Symmetrics Cycling Team (Canada)
Team Type 1 (USA)
Toyota-United Professional Cycling Team (USA)

Continental – UCI Asia Tour
GE/Marco Polo Cycling Team presented by Trek (China)

So are you saying just pick one?

I'm disappointed Time Pro Cycling (it would be cool to see a team of U23 (or U25) riders in the race), Colavita and of course Rock were left out.

Can't they just add them all? 18 teams of 9 riders a piece doesn't sound like an overly large field to for a pro stage race to me... The hotel argument is weak. I'm sure they could figure something out.

I'm pretty sure we all agree Rock belongs... So lets not start fights if we're all on the same side, mkay?

Rather than sue, I'd like to see the riders form a stronger union and fight back against organizers--whether it is the ASO, Medalist or even the UCI/ProTour. There is way too much unfair and unprofessional politics in it's current state. It's bad for the riders and the fans--it's time to put a little pressure on the organizers.

Any of the teams listed below, especially GE/Marco Polo, Type 1, Symmetrics, and Jittery Joes. I would say, without a doubt, Rock is above those teams.
Jittery Joes is locally based out of Athens Georgia and I believe they have been there every year of the TDG. I wouldn't expect them to be bumped out in favor of Rock in the inital selection process of the organizers.

My gut feeling is that Rock rubs certain people the wrong way...I could be off base though. There seems to be a certain decorum and to an extent a certain way of politicin' to secure you way into these events. I just don't see how you can be outspoken and ruffle people's feathers and still be surprised when they just don't want you around after that.

In equation form:
Loud outspoken ramrod type of owner + some riders with questionable dark clouds about their pasts + internal DS/Management instability + showing up the TOC orgainizers by having your non-allowed riders at the event riding before it in full kit = no invite to TDG.

Doesn't matter what kind of team Rock is able to send to it because it's Medalist's event and their perogative.

Remember last year when Sierra Nevada was in Rock's shoes? They got closed out of the Tour of California and Georgia. And look what happened to them. Some of the coolest guys on the coolest team ended up without a job this year. Way to promote growth in the sport. Ironic thing is Rollin, who won a stage this year, is an ex-KGSN rider. Not saying they would have one a stage, but they couldnt have be worse than Credit Agricole. To all the race organizers....good job.....at being CHALK-FULL of suck!

What I see in Rock is an owner that wants to do things the quick way, rather than the right way. It is always easier to throw a bunch of money at a venture and try to buy credibility, than it is BUILD a team methodically. Look at Vaughters, he had silent big money benefactor for a few years, but he didn't waste a lot of money and energy early on. He built a program slowly, and THEN when the time was right he went after the riders.

It is going to be next impossible right now for Rock to move forward and be successful because they have no foundation. The organization behind the scenes is in shambles and organizationally how can they expect to move forward without some level of stability in key positions? They can't even get a somebody to stay on as director, team directors aren't terribly hard to find.....unless your Rock.

No invite to TOC= your team won't be around next year.

With that logic RR cycling is safe next year from Mr Ball pulling the plug. :idea:

It is certainly in an organizer's best interest to put on the most competitive party they can. That will result in a product that draws what advertisers want- people willing to part with $$$. It is a business

I just don't understand where the view comes from of an entitlement to participate in a race. Throw the land mines at me but the same goes for ASO. If they do not want to invite the previous year's winner- well that is a decision and a consequence they have to live with. Good or Bad. By the logic that the previous year's winner has to be invited, then the winner would also be obligated to race even if he was retired. Should have Lance been compelled to race in the TDF in 2006?

If a promoter consistently chases away the best riders, then they won't have anything more than a charity ride. That is not the business they are in. You and I may not agree with or understand their rationale for team selection, but in the end they have to deliver those people that are willing to part with $$$ to their advertisers. If they fail, they will be out of business.

I just don't understand where the view comes from of an entitlement to participate in a race. Throw the land mines at me but the same goes for ASO. If they do not want to invite the previous year's winner- well that is a decision and a consequence they have to live with. Good or Bad. By the logic that the previous year's winner has to be invited, then the winner would also be obligated to race even if he was retired. Should have Lance been compelled to race in the TDF in 2006?



The problem comes in the business of attracting sponsors. Big money sponsors want some sense of security that their logo will be on display at the big events. When race organizers start playing games with the invite lists it makes all sponsors nervous. The concept behind the Pro Tour was to eliminate this insecurity. I think the Pro Tour model does have a lot to be desired, but it was a move in the right direction. ASO has now thrown a wrench in the works and now we have several Pro Tour level teams hurting for sponsors.

I am not saying that Medalist is in the wrong. They are perfectly in the right to invite whoever they want to based on the way things are set up today.

What needs to happen through all cycling is there needs to be standard for gaining invitation to each race.

Watching the Masters this weekend I got the idea. The Augusta National runs its own event much the same way ASO runs the TDF. The qualifying for the Masters has been cast in stone for years. There are several means by which one can qualify, all of which are based on past results in competition. The reason ASO and Medalist catch heat is because their invitation process is done off the field of competition, behind closed doors.

This should come down to whether RR had a verbal agreement with the promoter. A contract is a contract and your word can be binding

The promoter has the choice to invite whoever they want. ASO wants local French teams in the race because the beleive it is what is best for the race. Local companies and cities pony up millions of euros for it. The TdG promoter will do what he feels is in the best intrests of his race.

Watching the Masters this weekend I got the idea. The Augusta National runs its own event much the same way ASO runs the TDF. The qualifying for the Masters has been cast in stone for years. There are several means by which one can qualify, all of which are based on past results in competition. The reason ASO and Medalist catch heat is because their invitation process is done off the field of competition, behind closed doors.

Don't entirely disagree, but cycling has had this little problem with cheating. Its a bit easier to spot a player moving a ball, than to catch a doper. Having said that, both the ASO and UCI do not have a strong record of ensuring clean racers.

Home runs, touchdowns and dominant racers sell the fans. While most fans profess a dislike of cheaters, they still seem to look beyond this and fall at a dominant athlete's feet. I'm from the Bay Area and am amazed at the average guys opinion that Barry Bonds is still a hero and his records mean something. :mad2:

It might get a leeeeeetle interesting now....Saunier is pulling out of the TdG because of injury.

Take a look at the possible start list for every team including the Pro Tour Teams and see how many could match the possible Rock Racing start list. If TOG is not about fielding the most competitive teams as Birrell has claimed in previous interviews, then the selection committee really have their heads in the wrong location or again it is pure political payback from Medalist Sports. His logistics excuses stink, you want to put on a world class event and use lack of hotels as a selection criteria.
Possible start list for R&R:
Botero
Sevilla
Pena
Rodriquez
Hamilton
Creed
Grajales
Ollerenshaw

That start list is as good if not better than even some of the Pro Tour Teams and better than the domestic teams.It would/will be a shame to not see this team in Georgia.Cycling does not have sport power to exclude this class of riders.It will never grow in the US without a little drama.What if they gave a race and nobody came

You just don't forget about Rock. And besides Astana, who else has as strong of a team?

.

is a ridiculous comment....

And replace by Rock...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/apr08/apr16newsb

is a ridiculous comment....

well, who does then?

well, who does then?


Seems that Astana wasn't head and shoulders above anyone else... after all!