I was just wondering if an average person could actually build his own wheels?
I would like to build a bike from the ground up someday using my choice of components and do it all myself. Just for the pleasure and satisfaction it would bring of doing it myself.
I am not without mechanical skills having been a multi-skill maintenance mechanic in a steel mill for the past 30 years.
Is this something I could do?

I was just wondering if an average person could actually build his own wheels?
When you say "build" what do you mean? Make your own rims, hubs and spokes? I ask this because the act of assembling the wheel parts is what many (most?) of us do around here. My wheelbuilding tips (http://miketechinfo.com/new-tech-wheels-tires.htm) will give you all the info and links that you need.

But if you really talking about making your own parts then you're certainly out of my league.

I was just wondering if an average person could actually build his own wheels?

There are plenty of below average people doing it...

If I can build wheels, anyone can. I even ride on them. If you can "follow directions" you can build a wheel.

Mike
No I didn't mean build my own componets, That would be way out of my league also.
What I mean is purchasing components and assembling them myself.
Also thanks for the direction to your wheel site very informative and helpfull Thanks!

and it has little relationship to any other job you've probably done or will do in the future, as are other specialty bike jobs, like installing headsets, bottom brackets, and cassettes, adjusting derailleurs and wrapping bar tape.

I like to do mechanical stuff but draw the line when I don't think I'll do the job more than once in a long while, the learning curve looks too steep or it requires tools that make it uneconomic.

More power to you if you decide to do it. Come back with a pictorial and when you need advice!

A whole lot of us here with below-average mechanical skills (myself included) have built wheels successfully. I've built a few sets, and they've worked out fine. Compared to a pro who does it all the time, I'm sure it took me a lot longer, but there's something oddly satisfying about starting with a hub, a hoop, and a handfull of wire spokes, and ending up with the remarkably strong and light structure that is a bicycle wheel. The only special tool you absolutely have to have is a spoke wrench, but you need that anyway if you maintain your own bike. A truing stand makes it much easier and quicker, but you don't need an expensive one, and again, that's a nice thing to have in the shop if you work on your bikes.

Here's some more reading material:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

Go for it.

I don't regard it as that much of a specialty when you can get by with only a spoke wrench and screwdriver--- and build it in your dropouts. Of your list, I only regard a headset as a "specialty job" (simply due to the tools required).

and it has little relationship to any other job you've probably done or will do in the future, as are other specialty bike jobs, like installing headsets, bottom brackets, and cassettes, adjusting derailleurs and wrapping bar tape.

I like to do mechanical stuff but draw the line when I don't think I'll do the job more than once in a long while, the learning curve looks too steep or it requires tools that make it uneconomic.

More power to you if you decide to do it. Come back with a pictorial and when you need advice!

Mike
No I didn't mean build my own componets, That would be way out of my league also.
What I mean is purchasing components and assembling them myself.
Also thanks for the direction to your wheel site very informative and helpfull Thanks!
That's why you threw me for a moment. Assembling wheels (building) is well within the capabilities of anyone I've ever had any dealings with on a few forums. I just didn't think that anyone would wonder if it could be done. But I'm ok now! :D

Let us know what you decide and how you make out. It's easier than you might imagine and the satisfaction of building your first wheel is immense. It's even greater when you take your first ride! Trust me.

Yes, I built my first pair at 15 years old, using a paperback instruction book with hand drawn illustrations, I think I still have it.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of wheels do you want to build? fixie/single speed beaters? light, expensive, dream wheels?

I was just wondering if an average person could actually build his own wheels? Is this something I could do?

I taught myself how to do it when I was about 14 years old. No manual, no book, no drawings, no coaching. Just sat down with an old wheel and one to compare to as a pattern and to learn about spoke tension. That said, there seem to be some people who just can't "get it" so if you're one of them, give it up now :)

I taught myself how to do it when I was about 14 years old. No manual, no book, no drawings, no coaching. Just sat down with an old wheel and one to compare to as a pattern and to learn about spoke tension. That said, there seem to be some people who just can't "get it" so if you're one of them, give it up now :)
14? That's when I started too. Back then (46 years ago) there was no written wheelbuilding info to my knowledge. The age of instant world-wide communication was far off. I started out of necessity - I couldn't afford to get a wheel built. I just looked at another wheel and with the sole tool - a spoke wrench - I was an instant wheelbuilder.

I'm a BIG fan of Lennard Zinn's manual: Zinn & the Art of Road Bike Maintenance. His instructions are very clear and easy to follow. Using his book, I've rebuilt Campy Ergo levers (both 8 and 10 speed), serviced integrated hubsets, and built up at least a half-dozen wheelsets.

I'm convinced anyone who is semi-competent (that would be me) and has the desire to give it a try can come out with a really nice set of wheels.

And don't forget to download the Excel program "Spokecalc" from the internet. Makes the process of determining the proper spokelength SO much easier.

.....don't forget to download the Excel program "Spokecalc" from the internet. Makes the process of determining the proper spokelength SO much easier.
If you think that's good, try Roger Musson's calculator. It's much easier. At the "0 decimal place" setting it does the numbers rounding for you. I've used 'em all.

If you think that's good, try Roger Musson's calculator. It's much easier. At the "0 decimal place" setting it does the numbers rounding for you. I've used 'em all.

Hey MT... isn't it past your bedtime and shouldn't you be in the (mtbr) reservation? :p Hope all is well.

:cool:

I had to learn to repair my bike myself at a early age, My father was a decorated field medic in the Pacific during WW2 and was badly wounded and his health never recovered.
In 1962 he died of those problems so at 7 years old it was just me and my mom.
At about 11 I got my first bike a Schwinn 20 incher at 12 I got a Green Varsity it was my pride and Joy!
I rode that bike for the next 6 years when at 18 I got my first car a 50 dollar 62 Chevy Impala SS without a motor, dropped in a 327 and power glide and it became my pride and joy! (wished I still had both of them today)
My mother never had a Drivers License so anywhere I wanted to go I rode that Varsity, it took me everywhere! I would have to say I logged hundreds and hundreds of miles on that bike. And with those miles came plenty of repairs,cables,tires and adjustments! I learned to true wheels at that time so I do have that experiance under my belt, Be it almost 40 years ago! I remember having a little yellow book on bike maintenance, it was about 8"by 11" and covered everything! It was a very nice book and I wish I still had it.
I sat in the yard with that book my Varsity and a hand full of my fathers old tools and learned how to keep that Varsity on the road! This also was about the time I got my first job! Mixing potting soil in a cement mixer for Burns Greenhouse for $1.00 an hour, Had to pay for those repairs some how! And yes that Green Varsity was my ride to work also!
I see Bikes at this point in my life as many things! A way to stay active a connection to those years gone by, a form of recreation and a hobby (ie. building my own bike up from parts)
As far as the kind of wheels I'm going to build they will be rode bike wheels, I'm thinking Dura Ace Hubs 36 hole and Mavic clincher rims of some type? Was thinking bladed spokes because I think there Cool but after reading Mikes Wheel Building Tips I'm going to follow his advice and stick with plain spokes to learn with !
Any advice on my selection of parts for this adventure? I have always been open to advice and suggestions! Learned a long time ago that others that have been thru it can save you a lot of headaches later!

There are plenty of below average people doing it...
LMAO !!! :D had to be said...
I like to do mechanical stuff but draw the line when I don't think I'll do the job more than once in a long while, the learning curve looks too steep or it requires tools that make it uneconomic.

More power to you if you decide to do it. Come back with a pictorial and when you need advice!
i disagree... all u *really* need is a $3 spoke wrench... some less "attuned" ppl such as myself also rely on a park TM-1 to keep tensions even... that's it. The TM-1 costs 50 bux online.

The money u can save fixing your own wheels more than pays for it - plus the expensive ppl i took my damaged wheels to never really fixed it... to untension and rebuild properly takes a few hours, a $30 'true' is a bandaid job done to satisfy the customer and return the wheel back to a 'straight enough' proposition... until it comes out again after a few hundred miles...

If i didn't have the skills to do it properly myself, i would have on the advice of 'wheelbuilders' thrown away a couple of hundred dollar wheelset that i am still training on today... now that's expensive.

if you are really smart, you'll run wheels you build yourself with standard spokes... if you break one, the job cost you $0.75. If you stock extra yourself at home you can be up and back running inside an hr or two... :idea:

The only tough thing about building early wheelsets is the offset of the cassette on the rear. This problem can be solved by rear rims with the spoke holes offset towards the non drive side. Too bad the arrogant mavic folk are too set in their ways to face simple physics and build an offset rear rim. It makes building a rear wheel much easier when the spoke tension on both sides of the rear wheel are equal.

Unless you are well ove 200 lbs I think that 36 spokes per wheel is serious overkill except for loaded touring or really serious cobbles. If you are going to build a set of wheels, build a set of wheels you'll love riding. Even most monsters can ride a 28 front and a 32 rear if the monkey who built them wasn't too drunk.

As far as spokes go I wouldn't mess with straight 14 guage unless you plan on jumping your bike off a barn, remember you want to build a set of wheels that you are going to enjoy riding. 14-15's are easy to build and don't weigh a ton. Don't mess with revolution 14-17-14 guage spokes cause they twist like a banshee when tightening. If you are going to use a high spoke wheel you could easily use straight 15 guage and they'd be reasonablly light. I've never built a wheel with bladed spokes but from what I understand they are really easy to build up cause when the spoke starts to twist it's very evident, while with round spokes it';s impossible to see. My only concern would be feeling tension on bladed spokes but they can be read by a tensiometer. I use pipe joint compound with teflon from home depot instead of spoke prep on the threads of the spokes. I've used spoke prep but the pipe dope seems to work better for me.

I've never had an alloy nipple fail so when it comes to alloy or brass I wouldn't be afraid of alloy. Just make sure you oil the eyelets with a cotton swab dipped in oil before you start building to decrease the chances of the nipple seizing to the rim.

A cheap wheel truing stand is a good investment and a spoke tensiometer is a great investment. Park makes a $60 tensiometer that looks nice. I've got a wheelsmith but they're both the same design i think. Some folks think a tensiometer is a luxery but I'm a firm believer in it being a necessaty, especially considering that one can be purchased for the price of a decent rim. A wheel tensioned properly can be built with light components and be crazy strong.

No matter what, when you are done throw the wheels on the truing stand after the first few rides cause undertentioned and twisted spokes tend to loosen up quickly. Enjoy the build and don't be in any hurry. It's fun to pick and choose exactly what you want to hang on you bike. Build your dream bike. Sorry for going on for a bit but I hope it's helpful.

twinkles

^^^ several good points that sum up my feelings about the tensionmeter, its one of those tools that make the job easy by taking the guess work out ! :thumbsup:

Hey MT... isn't it past your bedtime and shouldn't you be in the (mtbr) reservation? :p Hope all is well.
:cool:
Hi ya Luke! I got up to take some more prune juice and somehow wandered over here. I thought I'd make the most of it and do a post. I'll be back to bed after I find my way back to mtbr. :rolleyes: What was the question again? :D

As far as the kind of wheels I'm going to build .........Was thinking bladed spokes because I think there Cool but after reading Mikes Wheel Building Tips I'm going to follow his advice and stick with plain spokes to learn with !
Robert, if you want bladed spokes, even just for the coolness factor, go ahead and do it! Sure for a person's first few wheelbuilds they're not the easiest to build with but in one way they ARE the easiest to build with. I'll explain.

All spokes, when we tension them, twist to some degree. The thinner the spoke, the more the twist. Twist isn't good and has to be removed.

With high-twist spokes like DT Revolutions we can see the twist if we stick bits of masking tape to the spokes or we can assume it's there through experience and we can deal with it. Putting tape on a few spokes and seeing the twist and relieving it shows us what to do for all the spokes. We must tension a spoke and then back it off a bit to remove the twist. Something like - tighten a 1/2 turn and back off a 1/4. Net result - 1/4 turn.

Bladed spokes twist easily too but we can very easily see the twist. One bladed spoke maker - Sapim - makes a tool to hold the spoke and prevent the twist. It's also very easy to make a tool to do this as it's just a piece of something with a hacksaw slot in it.

This tool has to be applied to each spoke to hold it while the nipple is turned and it's this action that makes the job a bit more tedious than non bladed spokes. Personally I'd rather do this than the two steps forward and one step back method with regular twisty spokes.

go for it! i used to be mystified by the process, but it's pretty straight forward. my first wheel took me all day. i didn't find the rear wheel too much harder to build. the left side spokes pull more than the right side spokes. the advice i got was to concentrate on the right side spokes and when the wheel is properly dished and the right side spokes are tensioned, the left side spokes will just fall into place.
the other thing i do is that after i'm finished the build i place the axle against a block of wood and gently press down on the four quadrants of the rim. you'll probably hear a few pinging sounds as things settle into place and the rim goes out true. then throw it back into your stand and retrue. keep doing this until you don't hear anymore pinging sounds. warning: according to Barrett's manual, this is effective but you risk collapsing the wheel. he recommends riding the wheel, then retruing as needed. that's the more conservative approach, but the wrench at my lbs says he's been doing the former procedure for years and never had a problem.

go for it! i used to be mystified by the process, but it's pretty straight forward. my first wheel took me all day. i didn't find the rear wheel too much harder to build. the left side spokes pull more than the right side spokes. the advice i got was to concentrate on the right side spokes and when the wheel is properly dished and the right side spokes are tensioned, the left side spokes will just fall into place.
the other thing i do is that after i'm finished the build i place the axle against a block of wood and gently press down on the four quadrants of the rim. you'll probably hear a few pinging sounds as things settle into place and the rim goes out true. then throw it back into your stand and retrue. keep doing this until you don't hear anymore pinging sounds. warning: according to Barrett's manual, this is effective but you risk collapsing the wheel. he recommends riding the wheel, then retruing as needed. that's the more conservative approach, but the wrench at my lbs says he's been doing the former procedure for years and never had a problem.

other questions:
is this method better than pulling pairs of spokes as they recommend?
you don't mention determining correct spoke length, very important, 1 bike shop did it wrong for me.

That's why you threw me for a moment. Assembling wheels (building) is well within the capabilities of anyone I've ever had any dealings with on a few forums. I just didn't think that anyone would wonder if it could be done. But I'm ok now! :D

Let us know what you decide and how you make out. It's easier than you might imagine and the satisfaction of building your first wheel is immense. It's even greater when you take your first ride! Trust me.

also what budget truing stand do you recommend for beginners? (not the build yourself fork that I read)

I just busted a spoke in a Mavic Ksyrium SL, and it made me realize that as nice as they are too look at, they suck to maintain.

I've now decided that I'm going to build up a set of rims myself and take this last step to complete independence from the local wrench.

other questions:
is this method better than pulling pairs of spokes as they recommend?
you don't mention determining correct spoke length, very important, 1 bike shop did it wrong for me.

Yes, probably, but I like Sheldon's method even better;
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#seating

Use one of the spoke calculators mentioned above.

The Minoura stand (also sold under Performance Spin Doctor brand) is economical and workable.

The only tough thing about building early wheelsets is the offset of the cassette on the rear. This problem can be solved by rear rims with the spoke holes offset towards the non drive side. Too bad the arrogant mavic folk are too set in their ways to face simple physics and build an offset rear rim. It makes building a rear wheel much easier when the spoke tension on both sides of the rear wheel are equal.

You won't get close to equal tension on any modern 8-10spd rear wheel even with an offset rim... and flanges that are too close together. IMO offset rims are ok if the rim is shallow and it is properly designed... but unfortunately there have been a lot of reports of cracking at the eyelets on the DS.

I've never had an alloy nipple fail so when it comes to alloy or brass I wouldn't be afraid of alloy. Just make sure you oil the eyelets with a cotton swab dipped in oil before you start building to decrease the chances of the nipple seizing to the rim.

The seat needs lubrication, but the most critical thing about aluminum is that it can corrode to the SS spoke. Your pipe joint compound probably helps with that... I used it also, back in the day...

You won't get close to equal tension on any modern 8-10spd rear wheel even with an offset rim... and flanges that are too close together. IMO offset rims are ok if the rim is shallow and it is properly designed... but unfortunately there have been a lot of reports of cracking at the eyelets on the DS.
Here's my first and last offset rim - a Bonty Mustang mountain bike rim. The radial crack ran along an internal stiffening rib that could only be seen when the rim was hacksawed. This happened to 20+ of the 32 holes. For me, offset rims were a cure looking for a problem.

the advice i got was to concentrate on the right side spokes and when the wheel is properly dished and the right side spokes are tensioned, the left side spokes will just fall into place.

A good method IMO. Concentrate on radial trueness as you bring up the DS tension... tweak the NDS tension when necessary to keep lateral trueness pretty decent. When the DS tension gets about to the final value, tighten the NDS spokes until the wheel is properly dished, then... stress relieve, balance tension, true, repeat.


the other thing i do is that after i'm finished the build i place the axle against a block of wood and gently press down on the four quadrants of the rim.

Also good, but I'd like to add that this doesn't work so well for the DS spokes since the NDS spokes will go slack with light pressure. Instead, squeeze the DS spokes or press on them directly. I would recommend pressing on the rim at each spoke...not just at 4 points.

he recommends riding the wheel, then retruing as needed. that's the more conservative approach.

No... you completely skip the stress-relieving step when you do that. Ideally you want all of the spokes to have their line improved (ie bent at the hub, cross, and nipple) so there are no bending loads, and be subjected to overload stress before the wheel is ridden. Then the wheel will stay true until you really overload it... ie cause some part of the wheel to exceed yield... but this should be a very rare occurance unless the wheel was under-designed for you.

I disagree.
Bottom brackets, Headsets and cassettes are just bearings and gears, sprokets that need there clearances set just like any bearings be it in a bike or a 500 grand gearcase on a steel processing line,I set preloads on bearings and shim gear teeth wear patters in on mutli millon dollar machines all the time in my job and as far as special tools a lot of them I already own! bearing presses and spanner wrenches and the likes, over the years I have collected an extensive snap-on and mac tool collection totaling well over 35 grand, Special tools don't worry me I like buying tools more than most anything.
and as far as my job skills not carrying over your wrong mechanical skills are the same no matter what your working on,
Just my 2 cents!

Were those wheels tensioned using a tensiometer? And what year were those mustangs from? Good chance they're pre y2k. I'm a firm believer that a better wheel should be able to be built using technology which creates near = tension an d & nd spokes. I do not like building rear wheels which so underutilize the non drive spokes. I understand that ocr is not for deep dish rims but when/if I build a pair I'll consider using 16 drive spokes and 8 nd. Sorry you had bad luck with ocr.

twinkles

I'm a firm believer that a better wheel should be able to be built using technology which creates near = tension an d & nd spokes. I do not like building rear wheels which so underutilize the non drive spokes.

They aren't underutilized... they carry just as much of the load as the DS spokes.

Couple of comments on the comments:

The Minoura truing stand is economical & functional. Mine came with a collapsible dishing tool, too (another essential tool for wheelbuilding). When I bought it, I thought I'd maybe use it one or two times. That was 6 wheelsets and many routine maintenance wheeltruings ago. Little did I suppose that my truing stand would become one of my most-used tools.

Alloy spoke nipples suck! I had an experience with a set of wheels on a used Team Saeco Cannondale bike. On one ride I stupidly ran over a branch and knocked the front wheel out of true. When I took a spoke wrench to the first alloy nipple, it dissolved into powder. Same with most of the other nipples on the rim. I replaced them all with good old brass nipples and have never had a problem since. All my wheelbuilds have been with brass nipples, thank you. Lennard Zinn hates alloy nipples, too.

I don't know much about the spoke tension meters, but I'm skeptical of the real need for the device. Normally I just pluck the spokes and compare the "note" to a built up wheel. Also, I more interested in the roundness and trueness of the rim, rather than achieving equal tension in all spokes.

I don't use spoke prep. Instead, I dip the spoke threads in some linseed oil and set them aside to dry for a few days. Maybe I'm just too cheap to buy the spoke prep, but the linseed oil seems to work just fine. It also works great when seating the nipples in the rim. The light lubrication keeps them from making noise and helps them turn easier when truing.

For pre-tensioning the spokes, I just squeeze two pairs of spokes at at time while the wheel's on the truing stand. I do that several times during the latter part of the build. Works for me.

a collapsible dishing tool, too (another essential tool for wheelbuilding).
Not for many of us Bill. We think that flipping the wheel in the stand is far quicker, just as accurate and, of course, infinitely cheaper.

Alloy spoke nipples suck! When I took a spoke wrench to the first alloy nipple, it dissolved into powder. Same with most of the other nipples on the rim.
Not mine. I have about five sets of wheels that have them. Never a problem. I just went to check my oldest set - probably in use since the mid nineties at least. I turned a bunch of them to test for "crumbling". Zero crumble here.

I've built roughly 20 - 25 wheels on the Minoura (Spin Doctor) Stand. In a past I worked in a shop and used a Park TS-2. I actually prefer the Minoura stand over the much more expensive Park Stand. My only complaint is that I wish some of the plastic bits were metal (but who can complain for a $39 stand!).

Also based on my experience:

No issues with Alloy nipples (I live in the desert)
Antiseize works great as a thread lube. I have built some wheels with teflon thread sealant (plumbers dope) and while it works it is not as nice long-term as anti-seize.
I never thought I would use a tensiometer much. I bought one and now use it on every build. It takes out much of the guesswork.