I need some help in choosing an aluminum (with carbon fork and rear triangle)road bike frame in the $1550 price range. I am interested in one of the Italian makers, such as carrera, moser, colnago, and pinarello. Does anyone know if all these makers still handmake their frames in Italy or are some of these frames made in more of a cookie cutter factory setting. Also what are your opinions as to which company makes the best road bikes. Thanks
Jeff

made in Italy
sold in Italy: http://www.viner.it/english/index.htm
sold in UK: http://www.vinerbikes.com/html/history.htm
sold in USA: http://gvhbikes.com/

"...in 1947 Viviano Nerozzi, took the the first 2 letters of his first name and the first 3 letters of his surname to founded the VINER cycle factory near Florence, Tuscany Italy...?

I need some help in choosing an aluminum (with carbon fork and rear triangle)road bike frame in the $1550 price range. I am interested in one of the Italian makers, such as carrera, moser, colnago, and pinarello. Does anyone know if all these makers still handmake their frames in Italy or are some of these frames made in more of a cookie cutter factory setting. Also what are your opinions as to which company makes the best road bikes. Thanks
Jeff

i doubt if any of those brands mentioned have been hand-made, in the term of one or two people building them up on the frame jig from scratch, since early in the life of the brand. i'd say that these days they all come off some sort of factory production line, some being larger than others.

i doubt if any of those brands mentioned have been hand-made, in the term of one or two people building them up on the frame jig from scratch, since early in the life of the brand. i'd say that these days they all come off some sort of factory production line, some being larger than others.


And having seen the Pinarello factory in Treviso, I can tell you that you are wrong. Most of the Colnagos are still hand built as well. Heck every single Lemond built in the US is handbuilt. That doesn't mean one person builds the entire bike by himself, but it does mean they are built by hand. Some one does the welding, some one else may do the paint and decals, some one else may do the finish prep... all with their own hands. And they don't go rolling down some big ol' production line like a Ford plant.

I need some help in choosing an aluminum (with carbon fork and rear triangle)road bike frame in the $1550 price range. I am interested in one of the Italian makers, such as carrera, moser, colnago, and pinarello. Does anyone know if all these makers still handmake their frames in Italy or are some of these frames made in more of a cookie cutter factory setting. Also what are your opinions as to which company makes the best road bikes. Thanks
Jeff

Tommasini is a small maker with their own touches on all their frames. If I was to spend $1500 on a frameset though, I would definitely go steel unless you are competing at a very high level and need to save a ver small amount of weight.

excelsports.com has Gios.

torelli.com probably has something.

repartocorsa.com may have some Merckx closeouts. (Belgium).

Basso and Viner are probably about as good as anything and their pricing is realistic.

Don't forget eBay, its easy to find a frame in your size with their "frame finder".

Not sure why you would want a carbon fork and rear end.
Are they supposed to be better?

="Handmade". Made in Treviso and you won't be disappointed.

Please tell me why you would go steel within this price range. I am not competing in any races, but from what others tell me---aluminum is stiffer than steel when it is designed properly and the carbon will help to softened the ride on less than perfect roads. I know I can get a steel frame in the 3lb range and to be honest the slight increase in weight doesn't bother me too much...although since I ride in the North east every route I choose is mainly hills. Also, don't I need to worry about rusting with a steel frame. Most people say no, but really do I need to worry about rusting??? thanks and any suggestions on a steel RB would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Jeff


Tommasini is a small maker with their own touches on all their frames. If I was to spend $1500 on a frameset though, I would definitely go steel unless you are competing at a very high level and need to save a ver small amount of weight.

excelsports.com has Gios.

torelli.com probably has something.

repartocorsa.com may have some Merckx closeouts. (Belgium).

Basso and Viner are probably about as good as anything and their pricing is realistic.

Don't forget eBay, its easy to find a frame in your size with their "frame finder".

Not sure why you would want a carbon fork and rear end.
Are they supposed to be better?

I have seen some sweet deals lately on eBay on De Rosa frames. As always, be cautious & make sure that you feel comfortable with the seller. I have to say that De Rosa doesn't seem to be one of the bike brands that is commonly scammed on eBay, though.

My personal opinion would be that you are on the right track. As I'm sure you have seen already on the forum, people have very strong opinions about frame material based on their experiences & personal preference. I have had (and still have) many different frames & have ridden basically all the frame materials out there. For my money there is no other frame that can come anywhere near my De Rosa Dual (Carbon Fork & Rear) . I believe there is a picture of the De Rosa in my profile if your interested.

Please tell me why you would go steel within this price range. I am not competing in any races, but from what others tell me---aluminum is stiffer than steel when it is designed properly and the carbon will help to softened the ride on less than perfect roads. I know I can get a steel frame in the 3lb range and to be honest the slight increase in weight doesn't bother me too much...although since I ride in the North east every route I choose is mainly hills. Also, don't I need to worry about rusting with a steel frame. Most people say no, but really do I need to worry about rusting??? thanks and any suggestions on a steel RB would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Jeff


Why steel? Because everybody that makes an aluminium bike tries as hard as they can to make thier bikes ride like a classic steel bike. That's the whole idea (and a handful of hype too) behind the carbon rear end on an aluminium bike... to soften the ride up so it rides as smooth as a steel bike.

From how you describe what you are looking for, and your riding style, you are a prime candidate for a really good steel frame. You don't race, you don't care much about the weight, you ride bad roads.... screams "I really want a steel frame" to me. As for the rust, you don't need to worry about it. Just wipe the frame down if you ride in bad weather. Steel bikes are not like the steel in a Cadillac bumper, it's not going to rust out and fall off. Most of the rust you would ever see on a very high end steel bike would be surface rust, but the frame won't rust thru. Now if you buy a Murray Hi Tensile steel frame, you may have some valid concerns.

It sounds to me that you have never riden a very nice steel bike. I would suggest you do. They are great. I currently have 6 road bikes, and throughout my life I can remember about 22 or 23 road bikes I have owned. Most of them aluminium, a couple Titanium, three Carbon, and a handful of steel frames. Of all the bikes I have sold in the past, the only ones I regret letting go were all steel. One was a Bianchi with SLX tubing, one was a Biamezetta that got snapped in half in a battle of physics between me and a Delta 88 at 45 mph, one was a Colnago Master that I outgrew, and the last one was an Olmo that I was too young and stupid to know to keep. I am not a hardcore "steel is real" type guy, but of all the bikes I currently own, the nicest riding one I have is an Eddy Merckx SLX frame that is almost 20 years old now. It's not my favorite, becuase the geometry is not the best for me, but it's the nicest riding bike I own.

I would suggest you take some time (heck, it's the end of the season anyways...) and ride some steel bikes. If you aren't sold on them and still want an aluminium bike, what are you out? You spent some time to see how other bikes felt... not a big waste in my eyes. But then again you may just find that one frame that you just fall in love with in the process. Ride some commonly found steel frames like Lemonds or Specializeds and try to find some shops that have some higher end steel bikes to ride too (or at least a shop that has employees with those bikes) and see what you think. Remember, you can only make a truely informed decision when you have all the information.

Have fun finding that perfect frame.

Please tell me why you would go steel within this price range. I am not competing in any races, but from what others tell me---aluminum is stiffer than steel when it is designed properly and the carbon will help to softened the ride on less than perfect roads. I know I can get a steel frame in the 3lb range and to be honest the slight increase in weight doesn't bother me too much...although since I ride in the North east every route I choose is mainly hills. Also, don't I need to worry about rusting with a steel frame. Most people say no, but really do I need to worry about rusting??? thanks and any suggestions on a steel RB would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Jeff

majority of the people who go with steel do so because of the way steel rides. downside is weight and rust which I believe is over hyped unless you leave it outside exposed to the elements.

a lot as been said about aluminum's fatigue life which will make steel theoretically more durable barring any serious abuse (exposure as stated above).

a steel frame in the 3 lb range maybe either expensive or not as stiff as with a comparably weight frame made of aluminum.

you can go custom steel at a reasonable price with http://www.curtlo.com/
or go to http://www.gvhbikes.com/ and look at the Cinelli Supercorsa which is a fine Italian frame. a bit weighty compared to newer bikes but it is one of the best examples of what Italian bikes are all about.
__edited: url corrected - midlife_xs's
"the definition of stupid is doing the same thing and expect different results"

Please tell me why you would go steel within this price range. I am not competing in any races, but from what others tell me---aluminum is stiffer than steel when it is designed properly and the carbon will help to softened the ride on less than perfect roads. I know I can get a steel frame in the 3lb range and to be honest the slight increase in weight doesn't bother me too much...although since I ride in the North east every route I choose is mainly hills. Also, don't I need to worry about rusting with a steel frame. Most people say no, but really do I need to worry about rusting??? thanks and any suggestions on a steel RB would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Jeff

Everything I have read tells me that steel is more durable than Aluminum. I would be inclined to stay in the 3.5 - 4.5 range for a steel bike though. No hard facts to back this up, just my intuition.

If you really want a nice AL frame, you don't have to spend $1500. Al frames are easier to produce than a nice steel bike. Try Ital-tecno.com for Cinelli, or GVH. A less expensive AL frame may be heavier, which is probably what you want anyway. Carbon may stiffen up the rear triangle and actually detract from the ride. Besides that, it is bonded to the frame.

Steel suggestions, this is copied and pasted from my earlier posting. It is by no means a complete list. My first choice would be the Hampsten, second the Tommasini Tecno, third a Mondonico or Casati EL/OS or Genius. This is without taking into consideration price.
If you can get a Casati for 8 or 9 hundred in your size, grab it.


I have a Tommasini already. If I were to buy another frame, and cost were no object, it would be the Hampsten Giro '88, partially because I admire Andy himself, and the Richard Sachs lugs.

Here is an EL/OS (perhaps the best steel tubeset ever?) Tommasini, if it is your size, grab it:

http://groups.google.ca/groups?q=tommasini+tecno+group:rec.bicycles.market place&start=40&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=rec.bicycles.marketplace&selm=40856e94.175234135%40news.west.cox.net&rnum=42

WWW.FASTRACKBICYCLES.COM


Gios Compact Pro from importer/dealer excelsports.com. Get them to order in a threaded steel fork for you, for whatever reason they only carry threadless. Frame appears to be a great value. Short top tube and steep seat angles.

Viner, Casati, Colnago Master, Merckx MX Leader - gvhbikes.com. Good prices.

Casati - These have a great reputation, get the EL/OS if they have your size. http://www.racycles.com

Marinoni - http://www.marinoni.qc.ca/, Italian born, now living in Quebec. They do their paint and chroming in house. They may not show lugged in their catalog, but they will still build it to order.

Mondonico/Torelli - see your local bike shop. Expensive.

Carrera, Ciocc, DeBernardi, Guerciotti, Moser, Pinarello, closeouts - http://www.highcaliper.com/

Cinelli Super Corsa - nice chrome and paint. A classic with standard size tubing. http://stores.ebay.com/trek-2a-Bicy...splayZ2QQ tZkm

DeRosa closeouts - www.ridecampy.com

Masi - from his son in Italy, importer seems to be a bit of a "card" -
Milano something or other, they have changed their URL, I think he advertises in Velo News.

US builders, there are one or two of them, some you probably have never heard of that produce stunning frames (like Chris Kvale?) [url]www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/USA.htm

I need some help in choosing an aluminum (with carbon fork and rear triangle)road bike frame in the $1550 price range. I am interested in one of the Italian makers, such as carrera, moser, colnago, and pinarello. Does anyone know if all these makers still handmake their frames in Italy or are some of these frames made in more of a cookie cutter factory setting. Also what are your opinions as to which company makes the best road bikes. Thanks
Jeff

To all the other great suggestions for steel frames from Italy, I'll add the name of Dario Pegoretti. Classic Italian steel , handmade by Dario, his brother and two helpers in their shop in Trento. Dedaccai tubesets and some of the most stylin' paint jobs goin' (http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=PEGORETTI_CUSTOM_FRAMESET_INFO) . The Palosanto (http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=PRODUCT_ZOOM&PRODUCT.ID=49&LAST_ZOOM_IDX=1&ZOOM_IDX=2) in yellow "nails" is available at MSRP $1500. I bought mine from GVH for $2650 built up with Gary's Chorus build kit and a Ouzo Pro fork. Then did a few upgrades to the kit and got seduced by the cog/chainring graphics on the Campy Ergobrain for a total of ~$2900.

Pegoretti also does some very nice aluminum frames (CCKMP, Fina Estampa, 8.30AM), again all hand made. That is, if you must ;) .

You don't race, you don't care much about the weight, you ride bad roads.... screams "I really want a steel frame" to me.

Precisely a few of the reasons I just bought a Columbus Zona frame, though it wasn't assembled in Italy.