I found this link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3666898.stm) on Slashdot -- sort of relevant to another thread here:

"For the first time, representatives from the OSCE - the European body which has traditionally monitored elections in fledgling democracies - will observe as Americans elect their president.
There have certainly been objections to the involvement of foreign monitors in the domestic affairs of a country which sees itself as a beacon of democracy.

But the Florida fiasco of 2000 with its hanging chads and voter purges has shaken confidence in the sanctity of the system, producing in the words of one observer, a climate of "unease, distrust and scepticism"." -- BBC

It's a bad joke perpetrated on the American people by the commies, um, I mean the Democrats! Can you imagine what they would do if they really had control? I could see it now - The United States of Socialist Republic! Chiroc and the EU would be telling us what to spend our money on.

It's a bad joke perpetrated on the American people by the commies, um, I mean the Democrats! Can you imagine what they would do if they really had control? I could see it now - The United States of Socialist Republic! Chiroc and the EU would be telling us what to spend our money on.

Perhaps it will look more like it did under Clinton, one of the best economies this country has ever seen.

BTW steamy, beyond name calling, you bring absolutely zero to these debates.

I guess your pic is considered mature. Where did I call anyone a name?

I guess your pic is considered mature. Where did I call anyone a name?

Calling Democrats ...um... Commies may be construed by some of our less Leninist constituency as...name calling.

It's a bad joke perpetrated on the American people by the commies, um, I mean the Democrats!

Are you afraid Republican operatives will be caught suppressing the vote? ;)

Since we're the showplace of democracy we should be able to show the whole world how to do it right! Bring it on!

Are you afraid Republican operatives will be caught suppressing the vote? ;)

Since we're the showplace of democracy we should be able to show the whole world how to do it right! Bring it on!

We are far from the "showplace of democracy", Our 2 party system and relativly small congress leaves America grossly under-represented, and some not represented at all. Plus if our elections are held to the same standard as the rest of the world, they fail miserably. Our elections don't even result in a mandate. We have alot of reform before we are the beacon of freedom in the world.

We are far from the "showplace of democracy", Our 2 party system and relativly small congress leaves America grossly under-represented, and some not represented at all. Plus if our elections are held to the same standard as the rest of the world, they fail miserably. Our elections don't even result in a mandate. We have alot of reform before we are the beacon of freedom in the world.

Guess my sarcasm didn't come across. That's why these icons are handy. :p

The United States of Socialist Republic! Chiroc and the EU would be telling us what to spend our money on.

And just possibly our money might be spent on hospitals, arts and the public welfare instead of war machinery. Parish the thought!

And just possibly our money might be spent on hospitals, arts and the public welfare instead of war machinery. Parish the thought!

Have you seen thae amount of cradle-to-grave benifits that the french get, its amazing. I would much rather have all those benifits than the strongest military in history.

It's a bad joke perpetrated on the American people by the commies, um, I mean the Democrats!

I know you think it's funny, but where do you get off calling a Democrat a "commie?" We love this country just as much as any Republican. Good Democrats died for this country, and so did a lot of Republicans.

I don't like it when the Dems insinuate the resemblances between Bush and Hitler. I think it's extremely insulting. That's why it's effing insulting to hear you call a Democrat a "commie." This is exactly the stuff that pi$$es me off.

People like you are the very reason I've switched to the Democratic party .

What does being a commie have to do with being a "good American"? In this country, they possibly can exist together. That wouldn't be my choice, but it could happen. My reference to it is in the vein of the mindset. Just look at what one guy posted above about the benefits the French receive from "cradle-to-grave". The Democrat mindset is the government should take care of us. The Republican mindset is the government should protect us so we can take care of ourselves. Duane's post is symbolic of this too. He once seemed moderate, but now is farther left than Czar. He would rather us spend more money on the arts and public welfare than protecting this nation. That is pie in the sky thinking. We know there are bad people in the World. We know there are countries that would love to see us get hit hard. I doubt they care how much public assistance we provide or how much goes to the arts. They only know that our philosophy is diametrically opposed to theirs and they would rather see us suffering or dead.

The UN election monitors, that is. They've been sent to Africa, South America, and Asia. Why not Florida. If we can question the "results" in some third world countries, for sure we can look into the "funny business" in Florida.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Former President Jimmy Carter, who has monitored elections throughout the developing world, predicted on Monday the U.S. presidential vote in Florida would be as flawed as the 2000 poll there.
Writing a commentary in The Washington Post, Carter said some basic international requirements for a fair election on Nov. 2 in Florida were still missing.

"The disturbing fact is that a repetition of the problems of 2000 now seems likely, even as many other nations are conducting elections that are internationally certified to be transparent, honest and fair," said Carter, whose Atlanta-based Carter Center has monitored more than 50 elections worldwide.

President Bush's victory in the 2000 vote hinged on a recount of votes in Florida, where his brother Jeb Bush is governor. The U.S. Supreme Court 5-4 ruling stopped the recounts, effectively giving Bush the presidency over Democrat Al Gore.

After the election controversy, Carter and former President Gerald Ford led a commission and recommended changes in the American electoral process.

But Carter said many of the recommendations were not implemented due to inadequate funding and political disputes.

Listing problem areas likely in this year's vote, Carter said there needed to be nonpartisan electoral officials and a uniformity in voting procedures, regardless of voters' social or financial status.

Four years ago, Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris was also the co-chair of Bush's state campaign committee and her successor, Glenda Hood, was showing the "same strong bias," said Carter.

Several thousand ballots of blacks were thrown out on technical grounds in 2000 and a "fumbling attempt" had been made recently to disqualify 22,000 blacks -- likely Democrats -- but only 61 Hispanics who were probably Republicans, as alleged felons, he added.

"Florida's governor, Jeb Bush, naturally a strong supporter of his brother, has taken no steps to correct these departures from principles of fair and equal treatment or to prevent them in the future," wrote Carter.

"It is unconscionable to perpetuate fraudulent or biased electoral practices in any nation. It is especially objectionable among us Americans, who have prided ourselves on setting a global example for pure democracy."

With the election little more than a month away, he said reforms were unlikely at this late stage and the only recourse would be to maximum public scrutiny on the "suspicious process in Florida."

© Reuters 2004. All Rights Reserved.

Just look at what one guy posted above about the benefits the French receive from "cradle-to-grave". The Democrat mindset is the government should take care of us. The Republican mindset is the government should protect us so we can take care of ourselves. Duane's post is symbolic of this too. He once seemed moderate, but now is farther left than Czar. He would rather us spend more money on the arts and public welfare than protecting this nation. That is pie in the sky thinking.

I'm not opposed to protecting our nation, I just happen to think we are shoving a square peg into a round hole when we use a conventional military to fight guerillas. There are dozens of practical ways to make the nation more safe and invading/liberating Iraq is not one of them. For all the conservative talk about protecting America I would like to think that someone would see the emperor's clothes.

As it happens, I'm also in favor of personal responsibility, but since I don't think we'll see that any time soon, I would rather see a dollar spent on the public good than the military. I simply view much military expenditure as a combination of corporate welfare and lost opportunity to do something more ambitious. The Roman empire isn't remembered and loved for its conquest, but rather its enduring art and culture.

Czar is still a good deal more to the left than I am. I try to catch up to him, but he moves too fast. ;) Give me a real conservative, which means someone who favors decentralized government, and you will see me applaud such a person. These war mongering neo cons are a nuisance to conservatives and liberals alike.

Duane, did you think about what "Empire" means before or after typing it?

Why can't we expect personal responsibility to be part of what we can expect from our neighbors?

America is an impressive empire, but we can do better things with our wealth. I think it is good to hold our neighbors, which means everyone these days, accountable. I just happen to think the current mode in which we do so isn't effective or humane. When are you going to see the emperor's new clothes? How many guerillas can you swat with a bomber? If we drop a 1 million dollar bomb on a terrorist, and his body is paraded afterward as a martyr, who wins?

It sounds nice to paint it as black and white issue of holding neighbors accountable, as if we were walking over to Joe's fence and asking him to mind his dog, but the reality is much different. We don't have to choose between diplomatic pressure and the welfare of Americans at home, but we might have to choose between an expensive war and affordable health care.

The quasi-conservative mantra about personal responsibility doesn't marry well with the notion of security. The world has always been a dangerous place with few guarantees. I expect the government to provide a good deterrent to criminals and foreign aggressors, but I accept responsibility to do the majority of the job myself if it comes down to it. The only plane that missed its mark on 9/11 did so because of personal responsibility, not government intelligence or weapons capability.