September 25, 2004

Soldier says Iraq is turning around


By Greg Bolt
The Register-Guard

Like a lot of people who work in big cities, Lance Varney puts in long hours, goes to a lot of meetings and spends a lot of time stuck in traffic.

Unlike most people, Varney does his work in a war zone.

A major in the 1st Cavalry Division, Varney spends his days navigating the streets of Baghdad as part of the U.S. military's efforts to rebuild the city. And while Varney, the son of Florence residents Ben and Linda Stovall, doesn't make light of the dangers, he says Iraq isn't the scene of unrelenting chaos and destruction people might think from news reports.

"I think we're already seeing a turning point in most of the communities, despite what may be prevalent in the news," he said during a telephone interview following a long Friday on the job. "The markets are full of people shopping, driving. The open-air markets are completely full, the streets are packed with people driving up and down selling all kinds of stuff. Kids are back at school. Soccer fields are being used that used to be trash heaps."

As a member of what's called a governorate support team, he works closely with top advisers to Baghdad Mayor Alaa Mahmood al-Tamimi coordinating infrastructure projects. Since arriving seven months ago, his unit has been working to repair and improve water and sewer facilities, restore electric and garbage services, and get schools, police stations and fire stations back in operation.

The unit's marquee project is restoring Abu Nawas Street, a former boulevard of parks, restaurants and shops along the Tigris River that once was the gem of Baghdad. Crews recently finished clearing rubble from the two-mile riverside esplanade and are preparing to lay new water and electric lines before putting in new walkways, fountains and lawns.

After that, Iraqi contractors will begin repair and construction of shops and restaurants in the area. The project is a top priority for Tamimi, who sees it as a tangible example of the city's slow return to normalcy and proof of the U.S. military's commitment to rebuilding Iraq.

"He made a commitment to give that park back to the people of Baghdad," Varney said.

Although things are getting better in Baghdad, Varney said there's no question that dangers remain. Troops wear body armor and travel in armored vehicles whenever they leave the relative safety of the well-guarded international zone at the city's center, and when they're not carrying weapons they have them within easy reach.

"I'll just say this up front: There are some bad things that happen here in Iraq, no one can refute that," said Varney, whose unit is not involved in combat operations. "What that means, in our daily routine, is that we have to be extremely cautious when we go places outside our immediate secure area. We go fully prepared, we go with the right armored vehicle, we go with the right force protection, we go with the right personal protective equipment, because it's a lifesaver."

That said, Varney asserts that most of the violence in Baghdad is caused by a very small number of people, many of them fighters from outside Iraq determined to thwart the American effort. The vast majority of Baghdadis seem to support the troops and their rebuilding projects, he said.

"When we drive by in our military vehicles going from Point A to Point B, the people for the most part, especially the kids, wave and give us the thumbs up sign," Varney said. "Women and children wave. That's kind of reassuring to see."

The city itself also is showing signs of recovery, he said. Trash and rubble are being cleared up, business are reopening and the streets are crowded. Even billboards are reappearing along major streets.

The effort has rehabilitated hundreds of schools, rebuilt a hospital and made noticeable strides in restoring basic services. Varney said Army units have put police and fire stations back in operation so that when attacks do occur, Iraqis often are first on the scene.

"Back in March, you didn't see any first-responders out there," he said. "Now when something unfortunate or tragic happens, all the things we would normally see (at home) are there immediately."

Varney works closely with the mayor's staff, so much so that he's made a number of close friends among the engineers and advisers helping to plan the infrastructure projects.

"The people I work with in the mayor's office endured the entire regime of Saddam Hussein," he said. "They talk to me about what it used to be like when everything was rationed, all decisions were micromanaged. There was a great amount of tyranny and fear among the people, and they were destitute, they had nothing. And now they have a lot."

Varney said there's no question that the American effort has a long way to go before life in Baghdad is anything like that in a modern democracy. But he said the people, by and large, believe it will happen.

"It's not a question of, do they trust us. They know exactly what we're trying to achieve, and for the most part we're partnering up to achieve what they want," he said. "They're optimistic. I think they're very optimistic."


http://www.registerguard.com/cgi-bin/printStory.py?name=d1.cr.iraq.0925&date=20040925

A telephone interview... so the journalist, Greg Bolt, is leaving for Baghdad today since the city is so safe, right?

What does the fact that it was a telephone interview have to do with anything? This paper is a National Guard journal. He may not have the resources to go to Iraq. I don't see the relevance.

September 25, 2004

Soldier says Iraq is turning around


By Greg Bolt
The Register-Guard

Like a lot of people who work in big cities, Lance Varney puts in long hours, goes to a lot of meetings and spends a lot of time stuck in traffic.

Unlike most people, Varney does his work in a war zone.

A major in the 1st Cavalry Division, Varney spends his days navigating the streets of Baghdad as part of the U.S. military's efforts to rebuild the city. And while Varney, the son of Florence residents Ben and Linda Stovall, doesn't make light of the dangers, he says Iraq isn't the scene of unrelenting chaos and destruction people might think from news reports.

"I think we're already seeing a turning point in most of the communities, despite what may be prevalent in the news," he said during a telephone interview following a long Friday on the job. "The markets are full of people shopping, driving. The open-air markets are completely full, the streets are packed with people driving up and down selling all kinds of stuff. Kids are back at school. Soccer fields are being used that used to be trash heaps."

As a member of what's called a governorate support team, he works closely with top advisers to Baghdad Mayor Alaa Mahmood al-Tamimi coordinating infrastructure projects. Since arriving seven months ago, his unit has been working to repair and improve water and sewer facilities, restore electric and garbage services, and get schools, police stations and fire stations back in operation.

The unit's marquee project is restoring Abu Nawas Street, a former boulevard of parks, restaurants and shops along the Tigris River that once was the gem of Baghdad. Crews recently finished clearing rubble from the two-mile riverside esplanade and are preparing to lay new water and electric lines before putting in new walkways, fountains and lawns.

After that, Iraqi contractors will begin repair and construction of shops and restaurants in the area. The project is a top priority for Tamimi, who sees it as a tangible example of the city's slow return to normalcy and proof of the U.S. military's commitment to rebuilding Iraq.

"He made a commitment to give that park back to the people of Baghdad," Varney said.

Although things are getting better in Baghdad, Varney said there's no question that dangers remain. Troops wear body armor and travel in armored vehicles whenever they leave the relative safety of the well-guarded international zone at the city's center, and when they're not carrying weapons they have them within easy reach.

"I'll just say this up front: There are some bad things that happen here in Iraq, no one can refute that," said Varney, whose unit is not involved in combat operations. "What that means, in our daily routine, is that we have to be extremely cautious when we go places outside our immediate secure area. We go fully prepared, we go with the right armored vehicle, we go with the right force protection, we go with the right personal protective equipment, because it's a lifesaver."

That said, Varney asserts that most of the violence in Baghdad is caused by a very small number of people, many of them fighters from outside Iraq determined to thwart the American effort. The vast majority of Baghdadis seem to support the troops and their rebuilding projects, he said.

"When we drive by in our military vehicles going from Point A to Point B, the people for the most part, especially the kids, wave and give us the thumbs up sign," Varney said. "Women and children wave. That's kind of reassuring to see."

The city itself also is showing signs of recovery, he said. Trash and rubble are being cleared up, business are reopening and the streets are crowded. Even billboards are reappearing along major streets.

The effort has rehabilitated hundreds of schools, rebuilt a hospital and made noticeable strides in restoring basic services. Varney said Army units have put police and fire stations back in operation so that when attacks do occur, Iraqis often are first on the scene.

"Back in March, you didn't see any first-responders out there," he said. "Now when something unfortunate or tragic happens, all the things we would normally see (at home) are there immediately."

Varney works closely with the mayor's staff, so much so that he's made a number of close friends among the engineers and advisers helping to plan the infrastructure projects.

"The people I work with in the mayor's office endured the entire regime of Saddam Hussein," he said. "They talk to me about what it used to be like when everything was rationed, all decisions were micromanaged. There was a great amount of tyranny and fear among the people, and they were destitute, they had nothing. And now they have a lot."

Varney said there's no question that the American effort has a long way to go before life in Baghdad is anything like that in a modern democracy. But he said the people, by and large, believe it will happen.

"It's not a question of, do they trust us. They know exactly what we're trying to achieve, and for the most part we're partnering up to achieve what they want," he said. "They're optimistic. I think they're very optimistic."


http://www.registerguard.com/cgi-bin/printStory.py?name=d1.cr.iraq.0925&date=20040925

did you see gen. abizaids interview on meet the press? he is confident in how its going, says its a slog but getting better daily and says his commanders and troops are doing a great job and making progress. hardly the doom and gloom / sky is falling position of kerry.

I don't see the relevance.

That is a shocker.

may be why it appears to be turning around for this soldier -wherever he is, whatever he's doing.

I hope it is indeed turning up, but I doubt if any of us will know for certain based on anecdotal claims one way or the other. It is pretty hard to get an overall impression of the situation over there.

did you see gen. abizaids interview on meet the press? he is confident in how its going, says its a slog but getting better daily and says his commanders and troops are doing a great job and making progress. hardly the doom and gloom / sky is falling position of kerry.

I hope so. But independent reports contradict that things are getting better.

Duane I agree. Yet I always wonder why we never hear any of the positive "anecdotal" stories from the mainstream media. I don't think anyone ever believed that Iraq would change over night. Heck there are historical examples of what it would take. However, to constantly hear that it is Vietnam all over again is not even close. To begin with the population of Iraq is vastly different than that of Vietnam 35 years ago. It is more educated and cosmopolitan. The World in general is immensely different. I wonder why Democrats, who are supposed to be more liberal and open-minded, are always more pessimistic on Iraq. Why do they view the insurgents as "freedom fighters" and not the Iraqis who are reporting for civil duty to protect the new government as "freedom fighters"? What freedoms are the insurgents trying to protect? They want things back the way they were - a totalitarian government where the people must live in fear and suppression.

What does the fact that it was a telephone interview have to do with anything? This paper is a National Guard journal. He may not have the resources to go to Iraq. I don't see the relevance.

The paper is a National Guard journal and the source is a Major--very unbiased.

I guess all the veteran war correspondent's there saying they've never seen a worse situation--some of whom are leaving because it's so unsafe-- are deluded.

Very reasonable to assume that a military journal (National Guard) would be totally unbiased and provide the most untainted of reports on the situation in Iraq. Clearly they have nothing to gain from painting a rosy picture. No one would possibly politely require them to paint that picture .... hmmmmmm :rolleyes:

I hope it is getting better ... honestly I do, but the other reports that are dominating the news beg to differ.

So I guess all our National Guardsmen are liars to the left thinking. He is also a civilian. He gets to vote and probably has a family too. He isn't considered a valid source because he is wearing a uniform? Veteran war correspondants? Unless they're quite old, what "real wars" have they covered? Where did you read or hear that, anyway? It may be unsafe for them venturing off on their own. They are dealing with a different animal in the terrorists who don't really care who they kill. They just need a beheading to air on TV to scare people.

Again, another who believes that our people in uniform are all liars. This journal is generally read by other Guardsmen. It's available online, but it's not mainstream. What would be the point of preaching to the choir? We all know why the MM are painting doom and gloom.

don't think anyone ever believed that Iraq would change over night. Heck there are historical examples of what it would take.


Richard Perle, paraphrase. "I would be surprised if within a year, the Iraqi people had NOT erected a monument to honor George Bush."

I wonder how anyone got the idea this would be easy...cough...chocolates...cough flowers...cough... Iraq can pay for its own rebuilding...cough...Americans will only have to pay 1.4 billion dollars and that is it...cough...

Maybe it was because that is what they were telling us.

Why do they view the insurgents as "freedom fighters" and not the Iraqis who are reporting for civil duty to protect the new government as "freedom fighters"? What freedoms are the insurgents trying to protect? They want things back the way they were - a totalitarian government where the people must live in fear and suppression.



This is so unbelievably insulting in so many ways I can't even begin to list them.

What democrat or liberal called the insurgents "freedom fighters". This implies that for some reason if your a Democrat and don't support the administrations position on Iraq, somehow you think it's appropriate for American soldiers to be getting killed by these guys over there. Is it so hard to imagine someone supporting our troups without supporting the war? Come on!? This is the most twisted view of what the Democratic view of this war is.

You're about one step shy of saying we would send money and supplies to support the insurgent cause. Ridiculous!

Let's get this straight ... we all think these insurgents are very bad people! For the most part ... as far as we know. A good chunk of them are not even Iraqi's. The issue with the situation being so bad over there is not that we made it bad and we're somehow subjogating these poor insurgents. It's that we didn't plan appropriately for this situation that so many people said would be the reality if we invaded.

Again, another who believes that our people in uniform are all liars. This journal is generally read by other Guardsmen. It's available online, but it's not mainstream. What would be the point of preaching to the choir? We all know why the MM are painting doom and gloom.




Stop taking things to such extremes. Did I say I thought they were all lying or liars? No not once ... not ever.

I'm not even saying this report is a lie. I'm only saying it is very easy to state "facts" in context and create whatever image you want.

Please attempt to be reasonable in your response if you choose to respond.

I was reasonable. Why would a reporter for a Guardsman's journal report propaganda to his brothers in arms?

So I guess all our National Guardsmen are liars to the left thinking..

Nope. And there are plenty of uniformed personnel with the opposite opinion of the major quoted here. I'm simply pointing out that the article doesn't even live up to the "fair and balanced" FoxNews style of reporting. Didn't even know at first that the journal itself was a National Guard journal so thank's for pointing out the doubly vested interest involved in the story.

I think neither is very newsworthy, but the majority of media patrons prefer to hear "on the ground" accounts rather than often better informed, yet a little dull, strategists. What you lament is an old issue where the bad news is considered more newsworthy. Some of it is probably politically motivated too.

I would like to see more international forces involved in Iraq, such that we can dilute the target a little.

That's not quite what I have been reading here for months. I have read that we are "occupiers" and we are facing insurgents who do not want us there. Questions have been asked like - "Wouldn't you take up arms if another country was occupying our country?" RW called the "freedom fighters" in another thread. I have read about how terrible our military is and how it equates to Saddam's military because of Abu-Graib. I have yet to hear from you or others that we are indeed fighting evil people who don't care about just causes, freedom and human rights. I read that we are the aggressors looking to plunder the oil reserves of the Iraqis. That doesn't sound quite right to me. It sounds rather anti-American.

Was poor Richard Perle part of the Right Wing Conspiracy?

That's not quite what I have been reading here for months. I have read that we are "occupiers"



"No one likes to have there country being occupied." George Bush

Was poor Richard Perle part of the Right Wing Conspiracy?


Is that your attempt to NOT DENY that what I wrote was TRUE. That what the members of the administration were saying before the war was that it would be easy?

No one ever said it would be easy. I defy you to post some proof of that!

I was reasonable. Why would a reporter for a Guardsman's journal report propaganda to his brothers in arms?

Recruiting for one

Last I remember there was some discussion of a need for more boots on the ground and no where to get them from.

How do they recruit with their journal? Again, you are claiming they are lying.

I read that we are the aggressors looking to plunder the oil reserves of the Iraqis. That doesn't sound quite right to me.

Well, according to Richard Perle and others in the administration, Iraqi oil was supposed to cover our costs for invading Iraq. Hasn't worked out that way, though. The war's cost us $137.2 billion so far and is increasing at a rate of $177 million per day ($7.4 million per hour and $122,820 per minute).

No one ever said it would be easy. I defy you to post some proof of that!


Yep, when I hear flowers, chocolate and honorary monuments, the first thing I do is think how harsh an assessment that is and how it could be possible for anyone to put up with both flowers and chocolates. You may not think that this is proof positive, but I dare say you wouldn't want to randomly ask 100 people and see if they held your view that what flowers and chocolates really mean is a beheadings, insurgencies, death, bloodshed and car bombs.

Survey Says... 0 points for STEAM in the family feud survey.

Try as you might STEAM. Member after member of the administration said time and time again that the Iraqi's would hail us as "liberators."

What a joke. Thing are going from bad, to worse, according to Powell. What is wrong with this guy ? Powell seems to be the only Repub in this administration who doesn't talk out of his ass, all the time. I admid, Powell has had his moments of "whopper" telling, but I wonder if his frank talk last week was because of "guilt" from his stories last year.

It hasn't work out that way, yet. Again who said this would all happen overnight?

How do they recruit with their journal? Again, you are claiming they are lying.


Come on Steam. You know when other people insult your intelligence I tend to think they are being unfair. You are making that very difficult with these statements.

Have you ever been to a recruiting office.

The first thing you'll see on the table in the reception area is a copy of their Journal. This is the same for every single arm of the military. It's standard practice.

During a previous life I was considering joining the Coast Guard. The first thing they handed me in the office was a packet of information including the "The Coast Guard Journal" and "All Hands" (The Navy's equivalent).

Come on man ... you aren't that dumb ... I know you aren't.

Iraqis are happy they are liberated from Saddam. The car bombers are not representative of the Iraqi people. They are killing Iraqi people. Again, you post along with many others, is why I say that many of you are calling the terrorists who are beheading people and car bombing civilians and Iraqi police, freedom fighters. That simply does injustice to the reality of things and to the people who have given their lives for this. - both Americans, other internationals and Iraqis.

It hasn't work out that way, yet. Again who said this would all happen overnight?

STEAM ... back off the ledge ... this one is a non starter.

If you don't want to read the examples. Or the quotes. That is fine, just remember occasionally your blinders need to get tightened or they might allow you to see more than you want too.

So it's "propaganda"? It's false reporting? Lying? Which is it? So you believe everything the MM says? Including CBS? (See BS :O)

How do they recruit with their journal? Again, you are claiming they are lying.

were never in the (US) military.

Again, you post along with many others, is why I say that many of you are calling the terrorists who are beheading people and car bombing civilians and Iraqi police, freedom fighters.

No one here, so far as I know, has called them "freedom fighters" except you.

So how does this compare to the Marshall Plan or even the Post War Relief Plan? Did we ever get repaid for them?

So it's "propaganda"? It's false reporting? Lying? Which is it? So you believe everything the MM says? Including CBS? (See BS :O)

The sign of true intelligent and logical thought ... circular arguments.

Please use the scroll wheel on your mouse and refer to my reply to your "lying" BS above. I'm too lazy to repost the same text and your just not worth it today.

You have good days and bad days Steam ... today is definitely on the low side from where I'm sitting.

So how does this compare to the Marshall Plan or even the Post War Relief Plan? Did we ever get repaid for them?

Simply...It Doesn't

Maybe you missed this. However I have read that we are occupiers and we should have expected to see redemption by the Iraqis who don't want us there. It's not the Iraq citizens who are doing the car bombings!

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?postid=131108#poststop

Please expand in that!

IRAQ IN TRANSITION: IN RAMADI

Marines grow wary of even friendly faces
Ordered early on to wave at civilians and win them over, GIs intent on goodwill in a roiled Sunni city now are having second thoughts

By Mike Dorning
Tribune correspondent
Published September 16, 2004

RAMADI, Iraq -- Marine Cpl. Travis Friedrichsen, a sandy-haired 21-year-old from Denison, Iowa, used to take Tootsie Rolls and lollipops out of care packages from home and give them to Iraqi children. Not anymore.

"My whole opinion of the people here has changed. There aren't any good people," said Friedrichsen, who says his first instinct now is to scan even youngsters' hands for weapons.

Subtle hostility extends to Iraqi adults, and evidence of betrayal among some of the country's officials is causing some American troops to have second thoughts.

"We're out here giving our lives for these people," said Sgt. Jesse Jordan, 25, of Grove Hill, Ala. "You'd think they'd show some gratitude. Instead, they don't seem to care."

When new troops rotated into Iraq early in the spring, the military portrayed the second stage of the occupation as a peacekeeping operation focused at least as much on reconstruction as on mopping up rebel resistance.

Even in strongholds of the Sunni insurgency such as Ramadi, a restive provincial capital west of Baghdad, the Marine Corps sent in its units with a mission to win over the people as well as smite the enemy. Commanders worked to instill sympathy for the local population through sensitivity training and exhortations from higher officers.

Marines were ordered to show friendliness through "wave tactics," including waving at people on the street. Few spend much time waving these days.

But the hard reality of frequent hit-and-run attacks, roadside bombs showering military vehicles with shrapnel and mortars exploding on their base has left plenty of Marines, particularly grunts on the ground, disillusioned and bitter.

Deployment in the spring

Since the 2nd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment, deployed in the area six months ago, 34 Marines have died and more than a quarter of the 1,000-member unit has been wounded. Now, as the battalion nears the end of its deployment, virtually every Marine in Ramadi has been shot at or seen a bomb or rocket-propelled grenade explode, and many have had several such brushes with death, commanders said.

Along with the heavy toll of attacks by insurgents, the Marines cite other sources of frustration. High among them is the scarcity of tips from Iraqis on the locations of the roadside bombs that kill and maim Marines, even though the explosives frequently are placed in well-trafficked areas where bomb teams probably would be observed.

Then there are the hostile glares that adults in the community give to passing American military patrols, and treachery from high-profile allies, such as the provincial police chief who was arrested last month amid strong suspicions that he was working with the insurgency.

Some Marines say the sense that their presence is unappreciated calls into question the entire project in Iraq, which they consider a liberation that should be welcomed. But other Marines said their support for the intervention is undiminished, as direct contact with the enemy strengthens their conviction that the U.S. faces threats that require decisive action.

Commanders acknowledge a shift in attitude toward Iraqis among troops but insist it makes little difference in accomplishing their mission. The Marines are a disciplined fighting force and under orders to treat Iraqis "with dignity," said Maj. Mike Wylie, the battalion executive officer.

But Iraqis clearly can pick up on the feelings of ground troops they encounter--one of the reasons that Marine commanders were originally so eager to promote a friendly attitude. Commanders have long emphasized that even casual interactions can produce valuable intelligence and win trust.

In a place where American soldiers are at constant risk of surprise attack, ill will shortens fuses even further.

"We're not taking any chances: Shoot first and ask questions later," said Lance Cpl. David Goward, 26, a machine gunner from Cloquet, Minn. "We're a lot more dangerous now. I'm not going home in a body bag, and neither is the person next to me."

Extended military engagement against an insurgency rarely breeds cozy relations among soldiers and civilians. But the American military's strict rules of engagement about when soldiers can shoot and when they can't are designed to limit the impact that passions can have on actions on the battlefield, said retired Brig. Gen. David Grange, a former Special Forces commander.

The acts of friendship that Marines undertook when they arrived in Ramadi now in some cases heighten their resentment toward the city's residents.

After a series of ambushes one April day that killed a dozen Marines, Cpl. Jason Rodgers saw a familiar face among a group of slain attackers. The dead Iraqi, who was lying inches from a grenade, was a shopkeeper Rodgers had called on several times during foot patrols, he said.

`I felt like I'd been betrayed'

"I felt like I'd been betrayed, personally," said Rodgers, 22, of Susanville, Calif. "I'd stood there, talking to him, shaking his hand, giving his kid candy. And he'd been studying our moves the whole time."

Capt. Rob Weiler, commander of the battalion's mobile assault company, arrived in Iraq toting a copy of the Federalist Papers and an American government textbook along with his M-16 and body armor, expecting to spend as much time advising local leaders new to democracy as he did fighting off insurgents.

Even as Weiler and his company fought attacks by insurgents around the city, he threw himself into the task of assisting with reconstruction works. He met with leaders to assess needs and hired local contractors to complete several projects, including renovation of a school.

But as a convoy of Marines pulled up to the school one day in late May to check on the contractors' progress, he said, a roadside bomb exploded in front of the building, wounding two Marines.

"It was extremely difficult for me to believe that none of the people that I was employing to do things to improve their lives and the lives of their children knew anything about it," Weiler said.

Likewise, Sgt. Curtis Neill cites a rocket-propelled grenade attack on his platoon as it passed some shops one hot August day. When the Marines responded, the attacker fled, but they found that he had established a comfortable and obvious position to lie in wait.

There, in an alleyway beside the shops was a seat and ammunition for the grenade launcher--along with a pitcher of water and a half-eaten bowl of grapes, said Neill, who was so amazed that he took photos of the setup.

`That's why I'm bitter'

"You could tell the guy had been hanging out all day. It was out in the open. Every single one of the guys in the shops could tell the guy was set up to attack us," said Neill, 34, of Colrain, Mass. "That's the problem. That's why I'm bitter toward the people."

Navy Lt. Kenneth Son, the battalion surgeon, said he has seen a complete 180-degree turn in the attitudes of Marines toward the Iraqi people.

"When they first came, I was able to discern . . . some glimmer of hopefulness that we would be able to make a difference in the lives of Iraqis," Son said. "I do see that glimmer of hope has dimmed. What some say is maybe there is a reason that the previous regime controlled the country in such a heavy-handed way."


Copyright © 2004, Chicago Tribune
__________________

Please expand in that!

So it will fit in with your black and white bumper sticker ethic.


APPLES TO ORANGES

Maybe you missed this. However I have read that we are occupiers and we should have expected to see redemption by the Iraqis who don't want us there. It's not the Iraq citizens who are doing the car bombings!

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?postid=131108#poststop

You have heard the term "rhetorical question?" That's what RW was doing there.

Bush called us occupiers when he said: "No one likes to have their country being occupied." What would you call our presence in Iraq?

You have heard the term "rhetorical question?" That's what RW was doing there.

Bush called us occupiers when he said: "No one likes to have their country being occupied." What would you call our presence in Iraq?

STEAM would call it a fertile crescent picnic by the Tigris.

STEAM would call it a fertile crescent picnic by the Tigris.

LOL! :D

What a joke. Thing are going from bad, to worse, according to Powell. What is wrong with this guy ? Powell seems to be the only Repub in this administration who doesn't talk out of his ass, all the time. I admid, Powell has had his moments of "whopper" telling, but I wonder if his frank talk last week was because of "guilt" from his stories last year.

Rumsfeld said the other day that an election in Iraq could perhaps be held in "three-quarters or four-fifths of the country... Well, so be it. Nothing's perfect in life, so you have an election that's not quite perfect. Is it better than not having an election? You bet."

25% of our population from our electorate would roughly eliminate all of the following states from the election:

Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
Colorado
Connecticut
Delaware
Hawaii
Idaho
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maine
Minnesota
Mississippi
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
New Hampshire
New Mexico
North Dakota
Oklahoma
Oregon
Rhode Island
South Carolina
South Dakota
Utah
Vermont
West Virginia
Wyoming

did you see gen. abizaids interview on meet the press? he is confident in how its going, says its a slog but getting better daily and says his commanders and troops are doing a great job and making progress. hardly the doom and gloom / sky is falling position of kerry.

yeah, he read that teleprompter real well.

Come on man ... you aren't that dumb ... I know you aren't.


don't be so sure.

yeah, he read that teleprompter real well.

Yeah, I noticed the General's eye movement too. Seems that the Dept. of Communications was typing his answers as he spoke. I wouldn't doubt if Tim Russert sent his questions ahead of time in order to get the interview.

No one ever said it would be easy. I defy you to post some proof of that!

MR. RUSSERT: If your analysis is not correct, and we’re not treated as liberators, but as conquerors, and the Iraqis begin to resist, particularly in Baghdad, do you think the American people are prepared for a long, costly, and bloody battle with significant American casualties?

VICE PRES. CHENEY: Well, I don’t think it’s likely to unfold that way, Tim, because I really do believe that we will be greeted as liberators. I’ve talked with a lot of Iraqis in the last several months myself, had them to the White House. The president and I have met with them, various groups and individuals, people who have devoted their lives from the outside to trying to change things inside Iraq. And like Kanan Makiya who’s a professor at Brandeis, but an Iraqi, he’s written great books about the subject, knows the country intimately, and is a part of the democratic opposition and resistance. The read we get on the people of Iraq is there is no question but what they want to the get rid of Saddam Hussein and they will welcome as liberators the United States when we come to do that.

MR. RUSSERT: The army’s top general said that we would have to have several hundred thousand troops there for several years in order to maintain stability.

VICE PRES. CHENEY: I disagree. We need, obviously, a large force and we’ve deployed a large force. To prevail, from a military standpoint, to achieve our objectives, we will need a significant presence there until such time as we can turn things over to the Iraqis themselves. But to suggest that we need several hundred thousand troops there after military operations cease, after the conflict ends, I don’t think is accurate. I think that’s an overstatement.

MR. RUSSERT: Every analysis said this war itself would cost about $80 billion, recovery of Baghdad, perhaps of Iraq, about $10 billion per year. We should expect as American citizens that this would cost at least $100 billion for a two-year involvement.

VICE PRES. CHENEY: I can’t say that, Tim. There are estimates out there. It’s important, though, to recognize that we’ve got a different set of circumstances than we’ve had in Afghanistan. In Afghanistan you’ve got a nation without significant resources. In Iraq you’ve got a nation that’s got the second-largest oil reserves in the world, second only to Saudi Arabia. It will generate billions of dollars a year in cash flow if they get back to their production of roughly three million barrels of oil a day, in the relatively near future. And that flow of resources, obviously, belongs to the Iraqi people, needs to be put to use by the Iraqi people for the Iraqi people and that will be one of our major objectives.

But the point is this is not a nation without resources, and when it comes time to rebuild and to make the kinds of investments that are going to be required to give them a shot at achieving a truly representative government, a successful government, a government that can defend itself and protect its territorial integrity and look to the interests of its people, Iraq starts with significant advantages. It’s got a well- trained middle class, a highly literate work force, a high degree of technical sophistication. This is a country that I think, but for the rule of Saddam Hussein and his brutality and his diversion of the nation’s resources and his pursuit of weapons of mass destruction, can be one of the leading, perhaps the leading state in that part of the world in terms of developing a modern state and the kind of lifestyle that its people are entitled to.