Hello folks,

I have a riding buddy who is around 210 lbs. He has had the worse luck with wheels. He has tried Mavic Open Pros (32 spoke count), Mavic Cosmics (bladed spoke 32 count) and Ritcheys (26 count). All have had spoke failure problems. I personally rebuilt ( all new spokes and nipples) the Mavics and the Ritcheys (not a pro at it, but I followed all the rules, even used a tensionometer) and after about a 1000 miles they started to break spokes. The Mavics have been rebuilt by a good LBS and they popped spokes too they only lasted about 200 miles.
The curious thing to me is I Hover around 190 to 180 lbs and have only ever broke one spoke. I run Bontrager selects with a 24 count spoke set up. I have over 6000 miles on the wheels. I have gone over the tension occasionally but I am not fanatical about it.

I have also read many posts here about spoke failure and weight and it seems not all people over the weight of 200 lbs have problems once they ditch the ultra light wheels.

Could it be a frame geometry issue?
It is always the rear that pops spokes.
This guy is the only person I can count on to go on long rides and it is starting suck when every time we go, we have to stop and fix a wheel sometime during our ride.

Any insight is appreciated.

Hello folks,

I have a riding buddy who is around 210 lbs. He has had the worse luck with wheels. He has tried Mavic Open Pros (32 spoke count), Mavic Cosmics (bladed spoke 32 count) and Ritcheys (26 count). All have had spoke failure problems. I personally rebuilt ( all new spokes and nipples) the Mavics and the Ritcheys (not a pro at it, but I followed all the rules, even used a tensionometer) and after about a 1000 miles they started to break spokes. The Mavics have been rebuilt by a good LBS and they popped spokes too they only lasted about 200 miles.
The curious thing to me is I Hover around 190 to 180 lbs and have only ever broke one spoke. I run Bontrager selects with a 24 count spoke set up. I have over 6000 miles on the wheels. I have gone over the tension occasionally but I am not fanatical about it.

I have also read many posts here about spoke failure and weight and it seems not all people over the weight of 200 lbs have problems once they ditch the ultra light wheels.

Could it be a frame geometry issue?
It is always the rear that pops spokes.
This guy is the only person I can count on to go on long rides and it is starting suck when every time we go, we have to stop and fix a wheel sometime during our ride.

Any insight is appreciated.


What hubs? I had continual problems with a pair of Mavic CPX-21s that had Ritchey hubs. Kept popping spokes - always rear, always drive side, always at the hub. Replacing the hub with a Shimano one fixed the problem.

Spokes generally break from the repeated detensioning (and resulting fatigue) that occurs on every revolution of the wheel. The lighter the rider, the less detensioning and fatigue. Increasing the spoke tension to the max that the rim will handle and/or increasing the number of spokes are the only ways to minimize the detensioning.

Using a rim that can handle more spoke tension like a CXP-33 and/or changing to a 36H rim may solve the problem. Also use 14/15 gage spokes, not straight gage 14.

Do the spokes break on the driveside or the non-driveside? With road bikes the most common cause of breakage is low tension of the non-driveside and the spokes usually break in the "J" bend due to repeated flexure at the hub.

~Al

More details would be helpful. Is it drive side or NDS spokes that break? Have you checked to see if it is the "same" spoke that breaks (suggests perhaps a rough spot in the spoke hole on the hub)? If you want a bullet proof wheel, go with 36 hole Velocity DeepV rims, 14/15 spokes, brass nipples. Hell for stout and only about a 250 gm penalty over a Velocity Aerohead or MAVIC OpenPro.

Using a rim that can handle more spoke tension like a CXP-33 and/or changing to a 36H rim may solve the problem. Also use 14/15 gage spokes, not straight gauge 14.

Why do you recommend 14/15 rather than 14's? Are double butted stronger than straights? I don't understand this.

There really does not seem to be a pattern, We have lost both drive and non-drive spokes. However most break at the bend into the hub.
Hubs used have been shimano 105 (on the open pro) Ritchey zero (on the ritchey) and Mavic on the mavic. The ritcheys are offset and I was able to get close to uniform tension on it. When I built up the open pros I ran the tension up just to compensate for the detensioning, ended up with rim failure (crack on the nipple) on top of spoke failure.


Sounds like the velocity is the ticket, Deep dish, high spoke count.

Thanks!

Hello folks,

I have a riding buddy who is around 210 lbs. He has had the worse luck with wheels. He has tried Mavic Open Pros (32 spoke count), Mavic Cosmics (bladed spoke 32 count) and Ritcheys (26 count). All have had spoke failure problems. I personally rebuilt ( all new spokes and nipples) the Mavics and the Ritcheys (not a pro at it, but I followed all the rules, even used a tensionometer) and after about a 1000 miles they started to break spokes. The Mavics have been rebuilt by a good LBS and they popped spokes too they only lasted about 200 miles.
The curious thing to me is I Hover around 190 to 180 lbs and have only ever broke one spoke. I run Bontrager selects with a 24 count spoke set up. I have over 6000 miles on the wheels. I have gone over the tension occasionally but I am not fanatical about it.

I have also read many posts here about spoke failure and weight and it seems not all people over the weight of 200 lbs have problems once they ditch the ultra light wheels.

Could it be a frame geometry issue?
It is always the rear that pops spokes.
This guy is the only person I can count on to go on long rides and it is starting suck when every time we go, we have to stop and fix a wheel sometime during our ride.

Any insight is appreciated.

unless he aims for potholes, it's probably an issue with original build quality. 210lbs is heavy, but not monstrously so.
Ritchey's off-center rims are a good idea (imo), but their hubs have the non-drive flange inwards of everyone else's. this equalizes tension on the rear spokes, but it also decreases the bracing angle for the non-drive spokes. that is bad.
your friend doesn't necessarily need to go for an uber-strong deep dish wheel. if you can locate a good wheelbuilder, you could go with open pros or velocity aeroheads. aeroheads have an option for an off-center rear, which I would personally take. straight gauge spokes are stronger than double-butted, but are less durable. DB spokes flex at the butts to absorb shock. he would probably want 36 spokes with an open pro.

A good book about bicycle wheels is Jobst Brandt's "The Bicycle Wheel".

From his book:

"Swaged spokes produce more durable wheels because they are more elastic than straight gage spokes. Their thin midsections stretch more and they can be made as tight as straight-gage spokes. Under load, they resist loosening better than straight gage spokes because they allow greater rim deformation before becoming slack. Their resilience helps the rim distribute laods over more spokes and reduces peak stress changes."

More details would be helpful. Is it drive side or NDS spokes that break? Have you checked to see if it is the "same" spoke that breaks (suggests perhaps a rough spot in the spoke hole on the hub)? If you want a bullet proof wheel, go with 36 hole Velocity DeepV rims, 14/15 spokes, brass nipples. Hell for stout and only about a 250 gm penalty over a Velocity Aerohead or MAVIC OpenPro.


I agree with this, and I am quite a bit heavier than your friend. I ride on Velocity rims with Ultegra hubs and 14 gage spokes, 36 spokes front and rear. I have about 1200 miles on them, and I have not had any problems with them yet. I trued them once at about 200 miles, and had one spoke loose. Other than that, I haven't touched them.

Hello folks,

I have a riding buddy who is around 210 lbs. He has had the worse luck with wheels. He has tried Mavic Open Pros (32 spoke count), Mavic Cosmics (bladed spoke 32 count) and Ritcheys (26 count). All have had spoke failure problems. I personally rebuilt ( all new spokes and nipples) the Mavics and the Ritcheys (not a pro at it, but I followed all the rules, even used a tensionometer) and after about a 1000 miles they started to break spokes. The Mavics have been rebuilt by a good LBS and they popped spokes too they only lasted about 200 miles.
The curious thing to me is I Hover around 190 to 180 lbs and have only ever broke one spoke. I run Bontrager selects with a 24 count spoke set up. I have over 6000 miles on the wheels. I have gone over the tension occasionally but I am not fanatical about it.

I have also read many posts here about spoke failure and weight and it seems not all people over the weight of 200 lbs have problems once they ditch the ultra light wheels.

Could it be a frame geometry issue?
It is always the rear that pops spokes.
This guy is the only person I can count on to go on long rides and it is starting suck when every time we go, we have to stop and fix a wheel sometime during our ride.

Any insight is appreciated.

Build quality is more important the heavier you are, but any rider over 200 with less than 36 spoke wheels is gonna have problems IMO. I have a set of 32 hole Open Pros with revs that I use for hill climbs and such, but I wouldn't think of using these as my everyday wheels. 26 spokes!? crazy for someone that big. I have heard Ksyriums hold up well for heavier riders, but most boutique wheels are just not well suited to 200+ riders.

He might just have crappy wheels. Most spokes break because thay have low/ uneven tension.
Non-drive side breakage is almost always from low tension. Drive side breakage is sometimes caused by high tension.
A wheel build with washers will often outlast a wheel built without them. Anything that prevents a spoke from flexing at the "J" bend will help.

Build quality is more important the heavier you are, but any rider over 200 with less than 36 spoke wheels is gonna have problems IMO. I have a set of 32 hole Open Pros with revs that I use for hill climbs and such, but I wouldn't think of using these as my everyday wheels. 26 spokes!? crazy for someone that big. I have heard Ksyriums hold up well for heavier riders, but most boutique wheels are just not well suited to 200+ riders.

I hear that a lot, and it seems to make sense, but then I also hear some wheel-builders say that the higher tension of lower spoke-count wheels is fine for bigger riders. I'm no expert on wheel building, but I run 200-205 lbs and have 3500 miles over some fairly bad roads on my paired-spoke Rolf Vector Comps (20 spoke rear, 14 front, I believe) without a single problem. In fact, I got trapped in a bad spot on a group ride Friday and hit a long section of shoulder pavement that has what I call "bulldozer tracks" in it - ruts that are designed to warn car drivers they're drifting onto the shoulder. I hit it doing about 23 and couldn't get off it for 12-15 seconds. I was afraid my wheels would end up pretzeled, but they stayed right in true. OTOH, my high-spoke-count Mavic CXP21s were continually breaking spokes. Sometimes, it's enough to make you throw up your hands and figure it's all black magic.

I hear that a lot, and it seems to make sense, but then I also hear some wheel-builders say that the higher tension of lower spoke-count wheels is fine for bigger riders. I'm no expert on wheel building, but I run 200-205 lbs and have 3500 miles over some fairly bad roads on my paired-spoke Rolf Vector Comps (20 spoke rear, 14 front, I believe) without a single problem. In fact, I got trapped in a bad spot on a group ride Friday and hit a long section of shoulder pavement that has what I call "bulldozer tracks" in it - ruts that are designed to warn car drivers they're drifting onto the shoulder. I hit it doing about 23 and couldn't get off it for 12-15 seconds. I was afraid my wheels would end up pretzeled, but they stayed right in true. OTOH, my high-spoke-count Mavic CXP21s were continually breaking spokes. Sometimes, it's enough to make you throw up your hands and figure it's all black magic.
The CXP21s were probably machine made. I'm guessing build on that. I have a set of handbuilt CXP33s that are great. Pretty much bombproof.

.... I have heard Ksyriums hold up well for heavier riders, but most boutique wheels are just not well suited to 200+ riders.

I know a number of, ahem, big people who ride Ksyriums and have no problems at all. At 180lbs, I'm on the large side myself and haven't had to even true mine in over 3000 miles of very poor roads. My lbs owner is 220+ and has only trued one of his 1x in over 2000 miles. Plus they have an excellent full replacement warranty for an additional 8% of their retail price, and at 1500gm they're much lighter than many of the other suggestions. Kind of on the spendy side, but you can't have strong, light, AND cheap.

I weigh 200-205 and never have broken a spoke with an Open Pro (32). The main problem I had was keeping my wheels true. I think it depends on who builds your wheels. The best thing I ever did was to invest in a truing stand and learned how to true my wheels. I took me about 4 or 5 times working with my rear wheel until it stayed true, I have not had to touch it for a couple of months. And I ride lousy rodes, chip seal, washboard, pothole city. I also learned to watch where I was going. A mirror comes in handy as I can glance in my mirror and dodge the potholes without running into them.

I think Zinn recommends anyone weighing over 190 pounds to ride with 36 count wheels. The owner of my LBS weighs 250 and he rides with 32's, but he builds his own wheels.

So if your friend is breaking spokes, it's because the wheel wasn't built right in the first place.

I have been using DT spokes for the last 25 years. Last week was the first time that I have ever broken one. I too wonder if it is my increased weight. I am near 200 pounds.

Ultegra hubs 36 hole
MA 3 rims
DT 14 gauge spokes
I broke one spoke in the rear. Drive side.
I do my own building.
I hope this problem will not continue.
Perhaps the increased dish of 9 speed wheels contributes to the problem.

Build quality is more important the heavier you are, but any rider over 200 with less than 36 spoke wheels is gonna have problems IMO. I have a set of 32 hole Open Pros with revs that I use for hill climbs and such, but I wouldn't think of using these as my everyday wheels. 26 spokes!? crazy for someone that big. I have heard Ksyriums hold up well for heavier riders, but most boutique wheels are just not well suited to 200+ riders.

What I wanna know is: what happened to Bocephus The First? :D

Gotta argue with ya on this, because I've had 3 different pairs of those preppy Campy bo-teek wheelsets and never had a single component failure or wheel out of true yet, and I weigh between 197-203 lbs. That counts Shamal's, Nucleon's, and now Zonda's. I have had problems however with customs.

Nobody on this forum can talk me out of the quality & durability of Campy's wheels.

Click on this site to see what this wheel builder thinks of the new DT spokes. For what it's worth I have DT Spokes on my rear wheel, replacing the Wheelsmith spokes after my rim cracked (at 16K) and have had no problems (yet).

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/

What I wanna know is: what happened to Bocephus The First? :D

Gotta argue with ya on this, because I've had 3 different pairs of those preppy Campy bo-teek wheelsets and never had a single component failure or wheel out of true yet, and I weigh between 197-203 lbs. That counts Shamal's, Nucleon's, and now Zonda's. I have had problems however with customs.

Nobody on this forum can talk me out of the quality & durability of Campy's wheels.
BJ I forgot his password and the password reset didn't work so I registered under the new handle to get in. Well I hope you don't have to rebuild them because that can get expensive. They use non-standard hubs and spokes. I use Campy Record hubs on my wheels and they work great and any monkey can find replacement parts for them and rebuild them if needed. Lots cheaper than boutiques too.

BJ I forgot his password and the password reset didn't work so I registered under the new handle to get in. Well I hope you don't have to rebuild them because that can get expensive. They use non-standard hubs and spokes. I use Campy Record hubs on my wheels and they work great and any monkey can find replacement parts for them and rebuild them if needed. Lots cheaper than boutiques too.

Yeah, I know they're non-standard, but i haven't had to buy a replacement (proprietary) Campy rim, spoke, or hub yet.

Hello folks,

I have a riding buddy who is around 210 lbs. He has had the worse luck with wheels.I have also read many posts here about spoke failure and weight and it seems not all people over the weight of 200 lbs have problems once they ditch the ultra light wheels.

Any insight is appreciated.

I am about 250 lbs. I ride a couple of classic bikes, one a Raliegh Supercourse Mk II frame with a Campy lowflange hubs and 5 speed freewheel on either a set of 700c clincher rims, or a set of tubular rims (also Campy low-flange hubs) that I built up myself over 20 years ago. Haven't broken a spoke yet. I have blown quite a few tubulars over the years though.

Another bike of mine, a Saronni has a couple of sets of wheels, One set a Shimano 600 hubset with Mavic sew-up rims, the other a Campy set of hubs and rims. No spoke breakage here either. (These are both six speed freewheel sets)

Perhaps I am a gentle rider, although I almost NEVER get off when the going gets tough. I do stand up and push those pedals. All of my wheels are either cross three, or cross four and 36 spokes.

Maybe those old freewheel type hubs were kinder to spokes, due to a more equal dish on the rear.