speaking of terrifying religious visions...

speaking of terrifying religious visions...
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speaking of terrifying religious visions...

Laura's a visionary too!

speaking of terrifying religious visions...

"The Almighty has his own purposes. "Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!" If we shall suppose that American Slavery is one of those offences which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South, this terrible war, as the woe due to those by whom the offence came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a Living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope--fervently do we pray--that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue, until all the wealth piled by the bond-man's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord, are true and righteous altogether"

With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan--to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations."

Gee, that whole religious presidential thing bothers me. I mean, c'mon....all that morality and higher than thou bible thumping. What a nut.

"The Almighty has his own purposes. "Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!" If we shall suppose that American Slavery is one of those offences which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South, this terrible war, as the woe due to those by whom the offence came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a Living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope--fervently do we pray--that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue, until all the wealth piled by the bond-man's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord, are true and righteous altogether"

With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan--to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations."

Gee, that whole religious presidential thing bothers me. I mean, c'mon....all that morality and higher than thou bible thumping. What a nut.

but just read this and say that, he gives great speech's i can barely read them but he says them out loud, thanks doc, this should shut them up

speaking of terrifying religious visions...
Velocity, Mohair, Bo...where are you on this one...you disappoint me! The silence is deafening here! C'mon...pick apart that nut Lincoln and his right wing religious nutbag views! He's an extremist! He was shoving his morals down everyone's throat! He was mixing state and religion....

Velocity, Mohair, Bo...where are you on this one...you disappoint me! The silence is deafening here! C'mon...pick apart that nut Lincoln and his right wing religious nutbag views! He's an extremist! He was shoving his morals down everyone's throat! He was mixing state and religion....
I have absolutely no problem with religion if it is kept out of the decision making process in our government. I also don't like any particular religious dogma to be forced on myself or others. If you want to pray to a statue of Jerry Seinfeld then have at it. Just don't say the statue told you to go to war and use that as reasoning.

Hopefully Bush won't get a chance to make his second inaugural address, because if he does, I'm sure he'll claim that the terrible Iraq war was God's punishment for who knows what offense. Lincoln could at least point to slavery as a reasonable source of what he perceived to be God's anger. What does Bush have?

Hopefully Bush won't get a chance to make his second inaugural address, because if he does, I'm sure he'll claim that the terrible Iraq war was God's punishment for who knows what offense. Lincoln could at least point to slavery as a reasonable source of what he perceived to be God's anger. What does Bush have?
Pat Robertson is fond of blaming the homosekshuls. Maybe GW will adopt that stance. Concentration camps for the lot!

Hopefully Bush won't get a chance to make his second inaugural address, because if he does, I'm sure he'll claim that the terrible Iraq war was God's punishment for who knows what offense. Lincoln could at least point to slavery as a reasonable source of what he perceived to be God's anger. What does Bush have?

By the measure of those on this Board, Lincoln...one of the greatest Presidents ever...would be dismissed as a nut...a bigot....a crackpot...

Faith and the Presidency go hand-in-hand....Bush has not exploited faith or his Christianity beyond any other Presidents past or present. Kennedy got more grief for being Catholic...was he a nutbag too?

I have absolutely no problem with religion if it is kept out of the decision making process in our government. I also don't like any particular religious dogma to be forced on myself or others. If you want to pray to a statue of Jerry Seinfeld then have at it. Just don't say the statue told you to go to war and use that as reasoning.

How can one compare the time of Lincoln as President to what we have now? Nobody alive today was alive then. It's all history now, and nothing we can do about it. Was Lincoln a nutbag? I think a lot of people thought that, even back then.

Kennedy got grief for being a Catholic because people thought the Pope would be running the USA, and not the President. I don't think it had anything to do with his religious beliefs. They were scared of the Pope taking control.

By the measure of those on this Board, Lincoln...one of the greatest Presidents ever...would be dismissed as a nut...a bigot....a crackpot...

Faith and the Presidency go hand-in-hand....Bush has not exploited faith or his Christianity beyond any other Presidents past or present. Kennedy got more grief for being Catholic...was he a nutbag too?

Simply by the style of the language, the American public would find Lincoln's speech odd and off-putting. But nutbag, of course not. Unlike our current president, Lincoln was bright, articulate, a (god forbid!) lawyer, and a statesman. Lincoln courageously led our country during our civil war. Lincoln rethought war policy when it wasn't working and made adjustments. Bush is neither bright, nor articulate, nor a lawyer (nor a successful businessman), nor a stateman, and he ain't courageous neither! For Bush, it's pedal to the medal and damn the torpedoes!

Um, that would have meant his religious beliefs were governing his actions. Get it?

By the measure of those on this Board, Lincoln...one of the greatest Presidents ever...would be dismissed as a nut...a bigot....a crackpot...

Faith and the Presidency go hand-in-hand....Bush has not exploited faith or his Christianity beyond any other Presidents past or present. Kennedy got more grief for being Catholic...was he a nutbag too?

Sorry, you are absolutely wrong. Lincoln may have been a believer, and he may have seen the hand of God in certain events, but he did not run the government that way. Just because he throws around some bible quotes doesn't make him a religious nutbag, as you call him. For you to hold up one of his speeches and somehow turn him into a religious nut is absurd.

For your future reading, I suggest you read his greatest speech, the Gettysburg Address, and note that he mentions god only once: "that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom."

And then there is this letter he wrote, which proves you a fool. I will highlight the very important section. Faith and the Presidency go hand-in-hand? Not according to Lincoln.

To the Voters of the Seventh Congressional District.

FELLOW CITIZENS:
A charge having got into circulation in some of the neighborhoods of this District, in substance that I am an open scoffer at Christianity, I have by the advice of some friends concluded to notice the subject in this form. That I am not a member of any Christian Church, is true; but I have never denied the truth of the Scriptures; and I have never spoken with intentional disrespect of religion in general, or any denomination of Christians in particular. It is true that in early life I was inclined to believe in what I understand is called the "Doctrine of Necessity" -- that is, that the human mind is impelled to action, or held in rest by some power, over which the mind itself has no control; and I have sometimes (with one, two or three, but never publicly) tried to maintain this opinion in argument. The habit of arguing thus however, I have, entirely left off for more than five years. And I add here, I have always understood this same opinion to be held by several of the Christian denominations. The foregoing, is the whole truth, briefly stated, in relation to myself, upon this subject.

I do not think I could myself, be brought to support a man for office, whom I knew to be an open enemy of, and scoffer at, religion. <i>Leaving the higher matter of eternal consequences, between him and his Maker, I still do not think any man has the right thus to insult the feelings, and injure the morals, or the community in which he may live.</i> If, then, I was guilty of such conduct, I should blame no man who should condemn me for it; but I do blame those, whoever they may be, who falsely put such a charge in circulation against me.

A. Lincoln

July 31, 1846

Um, that would have meant his religious beliefs were governing his actions. Get it?

The quibble we have isn't that presidents are guided by belief. It's being blinded by belief that's the problem!

Um, that would have meant his religious beliefs were governing his actions. Get it?
There is a vast diference between governing and dictating.

How can one compare the time of Lincoln as President to what we have now? Nobody alive today was alive then. It's all history now, and nothing we can do about it. Was Lincoln a nutbag? I think a lot of people thought that, even back then.

Kennedy got grief for being a Catholic because people thought the Pope would be running the USA, and not the President. I don't think it had anything to do with his religious beliefs. They were scared of the Pope taking control.

Dude, where I live (Richmond, VA-- capitol of the Conferderacy) people are still hatin' on Lincoln. The idea was floated to make a life-size statue of him sitting on a bench with a kid and there was a huge furor over it; so many protests, letters to the editor (the Times-Dispatch, which actually endorsed slavery way back when) and general handwringing. It got built, is seriously hidden. This town never ceases to amaze me.

one of Nostradamus's lesser known quatrains goes something like....

......the days of man will cease when the red legged warriors are victorious in battle against the black empire and then fight off the red winged avengers from the sky.....


Well, the way I read that, if the Boston Red Sox win the World Series, the end of our civilization is near.

Simply by the style of the language, the American public would find Lincoln's speech odd and off-putting. But nutbag, of course not. Unlike our current president, Lincoln was bright, articulate, a (god forbid!) lawyer, and a statesman. Lincoln courageously led our country during our civil war. Lincoln rethought war policy when it wasn't working and made adjustments. Bush is neither bright, nor articulate, nor a lawyer (nor a successful businessman), nor a stateman, and he ain't courageous neither! For Bush, it's pedal to the medal and damn the torpedoes!


But you make my point well...you can say Bush sucks...that's fine. But for those on this board to so viciously mock Christianity...including the President's....is ridiculous and bigoted.

“I’m the commander—see, I don’t need to explain—I do not need to explain why I say things. That’s the interesting thing about being the president. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, but I don’t feel like I owe anybody an explanation... Look, our strategy is to create chaos, to create a vacuum ... We will export death and violence to the four corners of the earth in defense of our great nation.”

lincoln new what he was talking about, so does bush i think that all that need's saying.

I do not think I could myself, be brought to support a man for office, whom I knew to be an open enemy of, and scoffer at, religion.
Did you miss this part of the speach? You and many others here are certainly guilty of this!

By the measure of those on this Board, Lincoln...one of the greatest Presidents ever...would be dismissed as a nut...a bigot....a crackpot...

Faith and the Presidency go hand-in-hand....Bush has not exploited faith or his Christianity beyond any other Presidents past or present. Kennedy got more grief for being Catholic...was he a nutbag too?

“I’m the commander—see, I don’t need to explain—I do not need to explain why I say things. That’s the interesting thing about being the president. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, but I don’t feel like I owe anybody an explanation ... Look, our strategy is to create chaos, to create a vacuum ... We will export death and violence to the four corners of the earth in defense of our great nation.”

lincoln knew what he was talking about, so does bush enough said.

one of Nostradamus's lesser known quatrains goes something like....

......the days of man will cease when the red legged warriors are victorious in battle against the black empire and then fight off the red winged avengers from the sky.....


Well, the way I read that, if the Boston Red Sox win the World Series, the end of our civilization is near.
the real way to read those terror alerts:

Lincoln used his faith in his speeches and his writings far more than Bush. That's the point. I don't say people who do such things are abusurd or nuts...it's the continual banter of people like you. Do you have any idea how offensive it is to people of faith when you start a thread like this? Or when someone takes a picture of Laura Bush and mocks Jesus? I put up Lincoln as a mirror to show you chuckleheads the bias, slander and bigotry you spew.

But for those on this board to so viciously mock Christianity...including the President's....is ridiculous and bigoted.
Hey...it's a free country. Do you defend ALL religions or just Christianity? How about the UFO Cults? In any event I think you pretty much summed up my feelings for most forms of organized religion. They are ridiculous and bigoted.

Lincoln used his faith in his speeches and his writings far more than Bush. That's the point. I don't say people who do such things are abusurd or nuts...it's the continual banter of people like you. Do you have any idea how offensive it is to people of faith when you start a thread like this? Or when someone takes a picture of Laura Bush and mocks Jesus? I put up Lincoln as a mirror to show you chuckleheads the bias, slander and bigotry you spew.
Do you have any idea how offensive it is for Christians to impose their beliefs on those who choose not to believe that way? Pot, kettle, black.

people shouldn't have a viewpoint. I believe in freedom and freedom has a cost...people can get offended. Even bigots need to be free.

That is how we judge Lincoln and Bush, and why we judge them to be different.

Lincoln knew how to work the rubes from the podium. He didn't <i>lead</i> like a nutcase.

Bush knows how to work the rubes too. Bush is one of them.

Did you miss this part of the speach? You and many others here are certainly guilty of this!

In typical fashion, you pulled out the phrase you wanted and ignored the rest, regardless of what it says.

Lincoln used his faith in his speeches and his writings far more than Bush.

Prove it. You can't make a claim like that without backing it up. Prove it, or admit you are making that up.

Do you have any idea how offensive it is for Christians to impose their beliefs on those who choose not to believe that way? Pot, kettle, black.
Really, and where is that happening to you Bo?? Hmm. Are the Christian cops at your door now, banging away to take you to church? Is all that turn the other cheek stuff making you crazy?

Prove it. You can't make a claim like that without backing it up. Prove it, or admit you are making that up.

bush doesnt write so he doesnt have writing's and the doctor not making it up at all. cheny has had writing's.

Do you understand what he was trying to convey? It appears not!

Here's a nice little place where you can go read up on Lincoln (I assume at this point books aren't your strong point)....

http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln.html

And then go to www.whitehouse.gov to comb through the President's speeches and then you come back and we'll talk. Okay? byby.

Really, and where is that happening to you Bo?? Hmm. Are the Christian cops at your door now, banging away to take you to church? Is all that turn the other cheek stuff making you crazy?
Bush's stance on abortion and his opposition to using federal money to combat stem cell research is offensive to me as is using God as justification to invade a sovereign nation for no rational reason.

Bush's stance on abortion and his opposition to using federal money to combat stem cell research is offensive to me as is using God as justification to invade a sovereign nation for no rational reason.

For conveinence or the pursuit of science is offensive to unborn babies. We can all be outraged! :D

Using federal funds for abortions is offensive to me and many others, some of which aren't even religious, as I am not.

Using federal funds for abortions is offensive to me and many others, some of which aren't even religious, as I am not.
I don't like abortion, but I want to see it stay legal. Some things in this world are not a black and white issue and we need to allow for the grey areas.

Using federal funds to invade a sovereign nation under false pretenses is offensive to me.

Here's a nice little place where you can go read up on Lincoln (I assume at this point books aren't your strong point)....

http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln.html

And then go to www.whitehouse.gov to comb through the President's speeches and then you come back and we'll talk. Okay? byby.

So basically you are telling me you can't prove it, and you're hoping I won't take the time to do so. Nice technique. I'm sure you'll count how many times each said "God" and say Lincoln said it more. You'll conveniently forget or omit the content or the context. Here's the thing, you're wrong. And even mentioning Lincoln and Bush in the same sentence shows how ignorant you are of Lincoln. And now you go on my ignore list. Okay? Bye bye.

For conveinence or the pursuit of science is offensive to unborn babies. We can all be outraged! :D

But capital punishment is a-okay? War is justified? Innocents die in these cases as well. In the former, people perfectly innocent of the crime have been punished by death. In the latter, collateral damage means innocent people die.

By the way, the abortion rate has spiked under Bush's watch. Walk like Jesus or waddle like Satan?

I don't think anyone is mocking faith here ;)


Do you have any idea how offensive it is to people of faith when you start a thread like this? Or when someone takes a picture of Laura Bush and mocks Jesus?

You are going to hold up as a model of Christianity a man who wages war as a first resort, believes in capital punishment for the mentally retarded, and economic policies which punish the poor???!!!

If Jesus hadn't risen he would be turning over in his grave.