Here in the UK you never hear of them
I was out on a ride today and saw a guy on an Ottrott St
The thing look amazing and the guy raved about it
He said it was expensive though !?!

When he told me how much the frame was I almost fell off my bike
Now me and my club mates all have nice bikes (too good for us) ;) - but the price of that Ottrott was ridiculous - the equivalent of over USD 6k for the frame without fork

Are they that expensive in the states as well?
Are they really that good?

I know it is a Ti / carbon mix, but for that price you could buy a moots AND a Parlee

$4895 and $5295, sans fork.

Everyone who has bought one has declared it the finest bicycle ever crafted by human hands. Not a big surprise eh? :D :D :D

http://www.serotta.com/pages/ottrott.html

Yet another example of living in rip off britain

With the current fx rate - you would think it would be a great time to buy a US bike in the UK

"The thing look amazing and the guy raved about it"

"A fool and his money are soon parted."

After spending $7000-$7500 USD on a bike, he is forced to "rave" about it. Otherwise, he would have to kill himself.

Very true
That is why the review forum is biased
Of course you will give your bike a 5 - if you did not like it, you would not have paid for it

I am just curious if Serottas are recognised as being incredible bikes - or have a very clever marketing angle that has tapped into the desires of a wealthy clientele ?

"The thing look amazing and the guy raved about it"

"A fool and his money are soon parted."

After spending $7000-$7500 USD on a bike, he is forced to "rave" about it. Otherwise, he would have to kill himself.

The raving part is a funny thing. Could anyone stand the cognitive dissonance of dropping 6-10k on a bike and having it ride like a pig?

I often end up riding with people who I meet out on the road. Generally we talk about bikes - the one we're riding, the ones we own.

Of all the bike conversations I've ever had, the only one that turned to cost was with a Serotta rider. I was riding a custom of mine, we got talking about whether custom was price efficient vs. off the rack, he was fishing for what I had paid. His comment, "Well you know, this bike was over 6 grand." I gladly informed him that mine had cost 1/2 of that.

Very true
That is why the review forum is biased
Of course you will give your bike a 5 - if you did not like it, you would not have paid for it

I am just curious if Serottas are recognised as being incredible bikes - or have a very clever marketing angle that has tapped into the desires of a wealthy clientele ?

I think they're very nice bikes that in my estimation are mostly overpriced. Their standard offerings are not nearly so obscene as the Ottrot, but certainly at the higher end of just about anything else offered in the US.

And yes, while perhaps a gross generalization, I think Serotta has found a niche among monied people who consider themselves aficionados. Check out their forum, I have never heard a discouraging word from a user. Every bike they've ever built has fit perfectly and ridden like a dream. Far superior to anything else on two wheels. ;)

To their credit, when you buy a Serotta, you're buying a fancy fit, a fancy bike and a ticket to a lifestyle that includes other people who want to be your friend having spent the same giant chunk of change.

I may be missing something, maybe I need to buy one too!

http://www.serotta.com/forum/

Read today's thread about Seven vs. Serotta vs. Moots. A Serotta employee jumps in to offer the fact that their Legend (highest end Ti) is so expensive because it's simply the finest bike ever built, due to materials, engineering, design and mojo.

Here in the UK you never hear of them
I was out on a ride today and saw a guy on an Ottrott St
The thing look amazing and the guy raved about it
He said it was expensive though !?!

When he told me how much the frame was I almost fell off my bike
Now me and my club mates all have nice bikes (too good for us) ;) - but the price of that Ottrott was ridiculous - the equivalent of over USD 6k for the frame without fork

Are they that expensive in the states as well?
Are they really that good?

I know it is a Ti / carbon mix, but for that price you could buy a moots AND a Parlee

Hey Flyingscot- you hit the nail on the head for me. I ride a Moots. Went shopping for an Ottrott and it did nothing for me after a few test rides. Just ordered a Parlee that blew me away after test rides. So instead of the Ottrott- I'll have that Moots and Parlee. I'll be damn fast if I ever learn to ride without training wheels.

That they refer to themselves as Serotta Competition Bicycles. I've been racing for a while and it's been at least 6 years since I last saw a Serotta actually being raced. I do see them sitting outside the coffee shop a lot though.

Here in the UK you never hear of them
I was out on a ride today and saw a guy on an Ottrott St
The thing look amazing and the guy raved about it
He said it was expensive though !?!

When he told me how much the frame was I almost fell off my bike
Now me and my club mates all have nice bikes (too good for us) ;) - but the price of that Ottrott was ridiculous - the equivalent of over USD 6k for the frame without fork

Are they that expensive in the states as well?
Are they really that good?

I know it is a Ti / carbon mix, but for that price you could buy a moots AND a Parlee

Some of the happiest rides I have been on were with a fifty dollar bike.

I also have had some very fine rides on a much more expensive bike.

Life is a ride, enjoy it no matter the cost.

That they refer to themselves as Serotta Competition Bicycles. I've been racing for a while and it's been at least 6 years since I last saw a Serotta actually being raced. I do see them sitting outside the coffee shop a lot though.
There were plenty being raced last year under the Sierra Nevada team. ;-)

But you're right - you'd have to really enjoy spending money if you were willing to crash one on a regular basis.

That said, I don't really care how much somebody spends on their bike vs. whether they're racing or how fast they are. While racing may be the glamorous side of cycling, not everyone rides a bike to compete. If you ride a $10,000 bike to the coffee shop but have a truly good time on the way there, good for you (as long as you don't look down your nose at anyone a more, err, pedestrian steed. In fact, it seems kinda silly to race the truly expensive ones - unless someone else is footing the bill.

Personally, I think the Ottrott falls into the same category as that Once bike of a few years ago with all the gold trim - kinda cool as a concept but a bit over the top. I'll take a plain ol' Colnago or Parlee any day. ;-)

I was alluding to the fact that they actually used be a bicycle for racers, remember the rebadged 7-11 Huffies? Like they say in the industry people like that (big ticket buyers) keep the industry moving forward and progressing. I guess my only real issue is with the fact a lot of these people have lost sight of or never found that the actual enjoyment of the bicycle is the ride. They spend so much time fretting over bike parts they can't see the big picture.

To their credit, when you buy a Serotta, you're buying a fancy fit, a fancy bike and a ticket to a lifestyle that includes other people who want to be your friend having spent the same giant chunk of change.

I may be missing something, maybe I need to buy one too!

http://www.serotta.com/forum/

Read today's thread about Seven vs. Serotta vs. Moots. A Serotta employee jumps in to offer the fact that their Legend (highest end Ti) is so expensive because it's simply the finest bike ever built, due to materials, engineering, design and mojo. Never discount the value of MOJO..... So, after hearing all the raves, and being a terminal lugged steel nut,I just had to have a CSi. Bought my standard geometry frame used, so no benifit of fancy fit, but maybe discounted lifestyle ticket as long as I don't mention the used part to everyone that wants to droll on it.It's a great ride,and light for lugged steel,but I can't say it's significantly better than my Colnago Master Light or Tecnos, Moser, Masi 3V or Carrera steel rides. As you so often say, above a certain level they all pretty much do the job as intended, but style points are priceless. ;) :)

"Never discount the value of MOJO..... "

Wouldn't that really be the "value of snob-appeal"?

OK, so $2000.-2500. for materials/enginneering/design and what...$4k for "mojo"? Gimme a break Rusty.

Does that also buy me the services of a Haitian voodoo shaman, who will infuse the frame with all the good ju-ju he can conjure up? Don't forget to bring a few spare chickens and effigies of Tullio and Fausto...

:rolleyes:

Serotta riders/purchasers may seem to be easy targets for accustions of conspicuous consumption, but let's keep this in perspective. If they really wanted to impress they would seek way more visible (and universally understood) displays of wealth and discrimination, say a Ferrari or a yacht. You could make the argument that they're pursuing the status symbols within their grasp, but the people I know personally who ride Serottas and other seemingly silly high end bikes have the financial wherewithal to make much more public displays of wealth.

There's no question that there's a financial aspect to all this, but I always think it's an end product of the underlying source of the funds; people who have more money think more about money. In this case you have the confluence of people who think a lot about money and cycling.

Marron: I agree
I have no problem spending a lot of money on any product if I can justify it to myself in terms of quality

I looked on their forum. Serotta owners appear an intelligent, passionate bunch. The bikes look great, and the whole tailor made approach has its appeal

It is still a lot of money though !

Very true
That is why the review forum is biased
Of course you will give your bike a 5 - if you did not like it, you would not have paid for it

I am just curious if Serottas are recognised as being incredible bikes - or have a very clever marketing angle that has tapped into the desires of a wealthy clientele ?
Serottas as marketed at those with lots of disposable income. John Kerry was seen riding one. Great bikes but way overpriced IMO.

Marron: I agree
I have no problem spending a lot of money on any product if I can justify it to myself in terms of quality

I looked on their forum. Serotta owners appear an intelligent, passionate bunch. The bikes look great, and the whole tailor made approach has its appeal

It is still a lot of money though !
Above a certain $ point it is all about little details--none of which really make much of a real difference to the average rider. People pay premiums for luxury cars for the same reason. Not because they are "worth" the extra money, but because they are a little nicer and they make them feel good driving them. Like the Campagnolo slogan "Technology and Passion". They sell the passion and it costs a lot. ;)

and this thread is full of them.


Many of us on the forum are passionate cyclists. As such we buy Dura Ace or Record when 105 or Centaur would be 85% of the functionality at 30% of the price......yet no one makes a big deal about Dura Ace owners. Just about every upgrade any of us put on our bike fails most sane cost benefit justifications, but we still do it......why? Because this is our passion, and relative to other hobbies, you can have the best at not too bad a cost. How many of you that are taking shots at Serotta owners have bought a car that is 10 or 20 grand more than they really need (or can take advantage of on our speed controlled highways)? What is the difference.

I own an Ottrott ST, I also own a Legend. I got the legend as a result of a car accident that left me with a broken back and several other broken bones and laid me up for 3 months. I got the Ottrott ST for less than a c50 or a L/s vortex or several other high end bikes. I had the chance, it was a perfect fit, I had the money, and so I thought I'd actually see what all the fuss was about (as opposed to most of the people that have an opinion about this bike and have never ridden it).

For the first two months I had the bike, I did many rides where I'd ride one bike for half the ride, come home & ride the other one for the rest of the ride. I loved my Legend....really couldn't imagine that I'd find a bike appreciiably better......well I was wrong. The Ottrott ST is smoother, more comfortable over long 4 to 5 hour rides, and much more responsive than the Legend. I have nothing to gain by this, in fact, I could sell the Ottrott for much more than the Legend if the difference wasn't meaningful to me.....but it is. The longer I ride it the more differences I notice. It is a great bike.

Is it worth almost twice what the Legend costs? I don't know (Is record worth 3 times what Centaur is?) that's a personal decision that we all have to make based on our own finances and love of cycling. What I will say is that I came into this thinking that there was no way it could be worth the money, to me.........but after riding it for around 9 months, I'm not sure that if the bike got stolen or trashed in an accident, that I wouldn't replace it with another Ottrott ST..........It really is a great bike.

As to Serotta Owners being like this or like that.....I've met a-holes on a Serotta, and I've lso met some of the nicest peopl I've ever met on a bike on Serotta's. They seem to be just like all other populations, the only difference is most of them seem to be more well off financially.

All of the above are my own experiences. No malice is intended.

For me, anybody on a bike is OK in my book.

Len

Serotta riders/purchasers may seem to be easy targets for accustions of conspicuous consumption, but let's keep this in perspective. If they really wanted to impress they would seek way more visible (and universally understood) displays of wealth and discrimination, say a Ferrari or a yacht. You could make the argument that they're pursuing the status symbols within their grasp, but the people I know personally who ride Serottas and other seemingly silly high end bikes have the financial wherewithal to make much more public displays of wealth.

That argument doesn't cut it either, marron. You don't ride a Ferrari or yacht around with your local cycling club to "impress" them, nor will taking your Serotta to the dock in Martha's Vineyard in June do much to thrill that crowd either, (unless of course they're into cycling already).

In my opinion and experience, some are out to have "the best" or the most expensive in their chosen hobby/sport/pastime/passion, no matter how active they are in it or how much they know about it. It's the mere owning of an object that gives the feeling of exclusivity, whether or not the item is actually used for its intended purpose. And what good is being "exclusive" if nobody else can see that you've got it?

There is also the 'law of diminishing returns' to consider. I've seen it with high-end audio equipment, much of which I've owned over the years. For example you take, say, a decent $5k-8k amp by Pass/Levinson/Krell/Conrad-Johnson/Audio Research/VAC, et al, and then try to get some improvement from a $100k Audio Note or some such - it just ain't happenin'. Snake oil and myth notwithstanding, I have NEVER heard even a slight improvement from the stratospherically- and obscenely-priced units over & above good high-end that is more reasonably priced, let alone a 10-fold improvement.

At some point, you simply reach a point of "that's all you can humanly improve upon" and the rest is just personal preference and/or glitz. Of course, you have to be able to appreciate solid silver-wound transformers and RCA jacks, rare Myrtlewood cabinetry, fine Corinthian leather, ad nauseum. But I've seen and heard $1/4 million systems in NY, Vegas, and Chicago and NOBODY needs a system like that anymore than they need a $6k + road bike or another 14 a$$holes.

Some people have more money than brains.


Len -

I'm a firm believer in 'each to their own', but haven't we heard all of that before?

Len - there is one gross generalization that emerges from Serotta discussions almost universally - the Ottrot is one extremely expensive frame. That fact cannot be denied. And sure, there are others, like the Dogma which is also expensive. But for some reason the Dogma does not have the following or a forum dedicated to it.

Many people here ride single or multiple 1,2,3k bikes. Hell, I have 16 roadbikes, way more than I need and all of them top shelf at one time or another. But even I, perhaps a prime example of profligacy, cringe when I think about spending between 4 and 5 thousand dollars on a frame that doesn't even come with a fork. I'm sure there are many others here that have that same obscenity threshold. And that's what I find interesting - the commonality in where we draw the expenditure line. Many people seem to hit the wall between 3 and 4 thousand for a frame, and anything beyond that takes on all the negative baggage of the bald middle aged guy walking in the store and saying "don't confuse me with the facts, just give me the most expensive bike you have." Unfortunately those bald guys also often drone on about their's being the finest bicycle ever built - bar none.

The apparently self-congratulatory nature that comes with such a bike is, an easy target. I know you're a regular on that forum, so I think you know what I mean. Doesn't make people "bad," it just makes them fans. And outside of the fans circle, fans often appear a bit silly.

I agree- the only Serotta generalization that holds any water is that their top of the line frame, the Ottrott, costs an arm and a leg. I can't afford one. But I can afford their tig welded steel frame- it was less than $1500 for the frame with custom everything. Its one of the nicest steel frames out there, and I thought it was a pretty good deal. I hope that people don't look at me funny when I ride it, because I love riding it and have no preconceived notions about anyone else based on the brand of bike they ride. I'm not old and certainly not rich. My Serotta is the most expensive thing in my crappy apartment, and maybe worth more than my aging Geo prizm. But cycling is the only hobby I indulge in.

I frequent the Serotta forum because, like someone else said, they are an intelligent, passionate group of people who have alot of interesting things to say. They are a little older on average than most bike forums, so there is more respect and discussion and less quibbling and chest-pounding.

" There is also the 'law of diminishing returns' to consider. I've seen it with high-end audio equipment, much of which I've owned over the years. For example you take, say, a decent $5k-8k amp by Pass/Levinson/Krell/Conrad-Johnson/Audio Research/VAC, et al, and then try to get some improvement from a $100k Audio Note or some such - it just ain't happenin'. Snake oil and myth notwithstanding, I have NEVER heard even a slight improvement from the stratospherically- and obscenely-priced units over & above good high-end that is more reasonably priced, let alone a 10-fold improvement. "

I have always wondered what other cyclist's hobbies were, and since I'm one of those psycho audiophiles as well, couldn't help but smile at your wisdom. I kind of suspected the mechanical workings of a tonearm related to the same on a bicycle. Same with watches (another passion).

As far as Serotta bikes are concerned, I remember they were the first U.S. sponsored team bikes used by Team 7-11 (Eric Heiden, Davis Phinney, Andy Hampsten, Jonathan Boyer, et. al.). That in itself was pretty cool.

I don't think you should ever purchase anything trying to impress someone. There will always be someone with more, so why waste your time. If it rides great and you can afford it; go for it! If it sounds real and you can afford it, . . . . .

I have always wondered what other cyclist's hobbies were, and since I'm one of those psycho audiophiles as well, couldn't help but smile at your wisdom. I kind of suspected the mechanical workings of a tonearm related to the same on a bicycle. Same with watches (another passion).

Funny you mention watch collecting, because my father is sort of into that. But don't get me started on audio! boneman and me already hijacked another thread the other day with it! ;^ /

Marron: I agree
I have no problem spending a lot of money on any product if I can justify it to myself in terms of quality

I looked on their forum. Serotta owners appear an intelligent, passionate bunch. The bikes look great, and the whole tailor made approach has its appeal

It is still a lot of money though !

Indeed, because "run-of-the-mill" higher end bikes have become so very good, it's well beyond the simple question of utility out at the costy extremes. You've got to really love it to take the plunge. I know only one Serotta rider...well...former rider since his Legend was stolen. I had a few chances to ride it and was mightily impressed; even though it didn't fit me at all well it had a lively and comfortable ride and certainly climbed better than any bike I own. At the time my friend bought it (late '90s) it was the best bike he could find for his riding style--and had few direct equivalents on the market. Now there are plenty. He loved that bike and rode and raced it a LOT (conservatively 20k mi/yr), but when he needed to replace it he bought a carbon Merckx because time marches on and the marketplace doesn't sit still.

As to my friend's motivations and ego, what he wants to do is ride and truly couldn't care less what it says on the frame.

BTW, his Legend did suffer a weld failure (chain stay-BB) which Serotta repaired under warranty.

Incidentally I picked up a CAAD7 frame/fork/headset recently for $365 on ebay. Like new condition.

Serottas as marketed at those with lots of disposable income. John Kerry was seen riding one. Great bikes but way overpriced IMO.

"cognitive dissonance"... well-crafted turn-of-phrase :D

B~

The raving part is a funny thing. Could anyone stand the cognitive dissonance of dropping 6-10k on a bike and having it ride like a pig?

I often end up riding with people who I meet out on the road. Generally we talk about bikes - the one we're riding, the ones we own.

Of all the bike conversations I've ever had, the only one that turned to cost was with a Serotta rider. I was riding a custom of mine, we got talking about whether custom was price efficient vs. off the rack, he was fishing for what I had paid. His comment, "Well you know, this bike was over 6 grand." I gladly informed him that mine had cost 1/2 of that.

......is a bit "over the top", but in all truth I think the Record gruppo has to be the epitome of off the shelf excess. It's too expensive, over designed, has CF for no practical reason, and is just too damn beautiful to be parts for a dirty road bike.

You mean dirt like this?

Yes, dirt exactly like that. You should be ashamed, divve. Even as we speak, no doubt Tullio is spinning in his grave. :p

Need I remind you of the rules that real road-grime is only allowed on Centaur-level and lower parts?

Just it's expensive. You spending much less than retail actually helps prove it. Would you pay $5200 for the frame alone? I bet not.

When you are talking $2K+ for a frame, what are you looking for? To me: it's performance, craftsmanship, racing heritage, aesthetics. The Ottrott is probaby a 4 in craftsmanship and a 2 in racing heritage, and a 4 in easthetics. Five grand seems a bit steep. Serotta seems fairly new to the carbon scene unlike Trek, Time, Look and Colnago, etc.

Some will quote exclusivity as a desirable feature, but that's a circular argument -- it's worth the money because it's rare. What is it rare? Because it's so damn expensive, few people buy it.

Just it's expensive. You spending much less than retail actually helps prove it. Would you pay $5200 for the frame alone? I bet not.

When you are talking $2K+ for a frame, what are you looking for? To me: it's performance, craftsmanship, racing heritage, aesthetics. The Ottrott is probaby a 4 in craftsmanship and a 2 in racing heritage, and a 4 in easthetics. Five grand seems a bit steep. Serotta seems fairly new to the carbon scene unlike Trek, Time, Look and Colnago, etc.

Some will quote exclusivity as a desirable feature, but that's a circular argument -- it's worth the money because it's rare. What is it rare? Because it's so damn expensive, few people buy it.
I agree that the price is extreme and a personal choice about how much to spend.

Craftsmanship....you give it a 4, I'm surprised, people have a lot of criticism of Serotta prices and their owners but you are the first i've heard question the craftsmanship that goes into their bikes. They do more alignment testing than just about anyone so their bikes track incredibly, their attention to detail on their welds and paint is arguably as good as anyone and better than most. What craftsmanship are you disappointed in?

Racing heritage:...you give it a 2. Again, I'm surprised. Serotta's were ridden by the 7-11 team as the first american Team to ride in the TDF back in 1986. Eric heiden won the USPro in 1985, 1991 thru 1994 they sponsored the Coors Light Team. In addition, Serotta's were ridden throughout the 90's in major european Road races, although they were usually rebadged as sponsors bikes. More recently, they sponsored the Sierra Neveda Team this year and Last on Legend ST's and the USPS Masters team on Ottrott ST's At the US Track nationals this year 5 riders won 17 medals including 8 golds and 2 world records on Serotta Bicycles. While the cost of sponsoring a Division 1 team is more than they want to swallow, they remain active in the racing scene.

As to aestetics......To each their own. I personally think that Serotta's shaped tubing, including their Shaped carbon tubing, is some of the best looking in the industry.

Len

Here in the UK you never hear of them
I was out on a ride today and saw a guy on an Ottrott St
The thing look amazing and the guy raved about it
He said it was expensive though !?!

When he told me how much the frame was I almost fell off my bike
Now me and my club mates all have nice bikes (too good for us) ;) - but the price of that Ottrott was ridiculous - the equivalent of over USD 6k for the frame without fork

Are they that expensive in the states as well?
Are they really that good?

I know it is a Ti / carbon mix, but for that price you could buy a moots AND a Parlee

Yeah, the new ones cost a bundle, but I have to tell you Serottas are magnificent to ride. I bought a used one three years ago from a guy who rode it a half dozen times and then stuck it away in his garage. It was a mid-90s model - an all steel NHX. The tires were rotted and the cables were rusty so it barely rolled and wouldn't shift and the guy sold it to me for four hundred bucks. Best bike deal I ever made. I cleaned it up, changed a few minor things, and so far have around 20,000 absolutely trouble free miles on it. It's smooth, supple, and corners like a 911 Porsche. I've ridden new Cannondales, new Treks, new all sorts of stuff, and nothing compares with my Serotta. About the only bike that would, in my opinion, is anything built by Richard Sachs, but then I'm an old dude, and I don't race anymore. What's important to me is that when I come home from a 50-mile ride on my Serotta, nothing hurts.
I called Serotta up a while back to see how much a paint job would cost. The man I spoke with asked me what my serial number was and when I told him thought a bit and then informed me he was the guy who built my frame. Told me he took a great deal of pride in the frames he built and I don't doubt that for a minute. I have a high-end aluminum bike hanging next to my Serotta that was no doubt tig welded to perfection by a robot. It's quicker up a hill than my Serotta, and it's easier to lift into the bed of my truck, but no way does it have as much soul.

Serotta is out of the loop when it comes to current top level euro road racing. Not that it matters for anyone buying a Serotta, but they haven't been in the game in a decade or so. The bikes they currently make are beautiful, exquisitely made works of art ... but they aren't top-shelf race bikes ... and they aren't meant to be.

For current state of the art in Euro race bikes, look at a Merckx Team Sc (or, Premium), a Pinarello Dogma, and Cannondale Six13. Those are purpose-built race bikes with current design and engineering.

Serottas, and specifically Ottrotts, are wondrous things ... but they aren't Euro grade race bikes, and they haven't been for years. There is an order of magnitude difference between Euro D1 racing, and the racing done by Sierra Nevada and USPS Masters.

Serotta is perfectly capable of making bikes for Euro racing. They don't, by choice. Such bikes wouldn't suit or serve their market niche.

The bikes they currently make are beautiful, exquisitely made works of art ... but they aren't top-shelf race bikes ... and they aren't meant to be.

For current state of the art in Euro race bikes, look at a Merckx Team Sc (or, Premium), a Pinarello Dogma, and Cannondale Six13. Those are purpose-built race bikes with current design and engineering.

Serottas, and specifically Ottrotts, are wondrous things ... but they aren't Euro grade race bikes, and they haven't been for years. There is an order of magnitude difference between Euro D1 racing, and the racing done by Sierra Nevada and USPS Masters.

Serotta is perfectly capable of making bikes for Euro racing. They don't, by choice. Such bikes wouldn't suit or serve their market niche.Let's just agree to disagree.

You seem to think that they couldn't be raced in division 1....that they aren't good enough. I think they could be, but Serotta chooses to not buy their way onto the division 1 team.

There isn't one team bike under a division 1 rider that has bought and paid for that position. Money doesn't make them more capable........it makes them marketing expenses.

I don't buy the "Just because it's raced in europe it's a "more capable" bike" argument.

Len

Alas, all is not well in Serotta land. Here's a link to the Serotta forum that someone posted on RBR a couple of weeks ago: http://www.serotta.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5050

Even some Serotta fans are questioning the value proposition. Where I stand (not that it matters): Use your $$ to take care of your people first: family, friends, employees, charities. Whatever's left over, buy a bike. If you've got enough for an Ottrot, more power to you. Just don't drive a freakin' SUV, man.

I finally went to the website to see what all the fuss was about. Wow; pretty awesome looking bike!

If you can afford it, and go into it knowing that you can get just as good for less money, go for it. If you think you must spend that much to get the best, then you must be an audiophile. ;)

I admit that a lot of the discussion is subjective, but having owned a Concours Ti, I remember Serotta's craftsmanship was pretty good, but not really noticeably better than the likes of Merlin and Seven. The idea of sticking carbon tubes in ti joints has always struck me as a bad idea. For example, you are creating 4 joints on the toptube (ti/ti, ti/carbon, carbon/ti, and ti/ti) while it's 2 joints pretty much with all other bikes.

As for racing heritage, despite everything you listed, I can't imagine it being much better than Fuji, let alone Colnago and Pinarello.

Here in the UK you never hear of them
I was out on a ride today and saw a guy on an Ottrott St
The thing look amazing and the guy raved about it
He said it was expensive though !?!

When he told me how much the frame was I almost fell off my bike
Now me and my club mates all have nice bikes (too good for us) ;) - but the price of that Ottrott was ridiculous - the equivalent of over USD 6k for the frame without fork

Are they that expensive in the states as well?
Are they really that good?

I know it is a Ti / carbon mix, but for that price you could buy a moots AND a Parlee

I looked at the Ottrott and was staggered by the price but liked the carbon/Ti mix. After shopping around I stumbled onto Sampson Bikes. They offer a very similar bike to the Ottrott for less than half the price. I bought one last summer with a Record set up and Cane Creek wheels that I love. If you are in the market for a carbon/Ti mix try Sampsonsport on the internet and check them out. With the favorable exchange rate you will do much better price wise than I did.

Jimb

Here in the UK you never hear of them
I was out on a ride today and saw a guy on an Ottrott St
The thing look amazing and the guy raved about it
He said it was expensive though !?!

When he told me how much the frame was I almost fell off my bike
Now me and my club mates all have nice bikes (too good for us) ;) - but the price of that Ottrott was ridiculous - the equivalent of over USD 6k for the frame without fork

Are they that expensive in the states as well?
Are they really that good?

I know it is a Ti / carbon mix, but for that price you could buy a moots AND a Parlee

I was also staggered on the price of the Ottrott, but I was also very interested in the Ti/carbon set up on the Ottrott. After shopping around I discovered a company called Sampson that is owned by Eric Sampson who builds bikes in Denver, Colorado. I bought one of his Exault bikes that has the same Ti/carbon set up as the Ottrott, but the carbon tubes are more radical. I set it up with Record gear and Cane Creek wheels and I love it and the best part is it cost me half of the price of a Ottrott. If you are interested go to SampsonSports on the internet and check it out.

Jimb

Serottas are highly overrated and overpriced big time. Decent, but not worth the price, IMO.

I had one of my better rides of the year yesterday on a 15 year old bike with crappy paint and next to no components. That was 55 miles on my fixed Merckx Corsa Extra. You don't need much equipment to have a great time on two wheels and that's the reason most of us are passionate about the sport; it's biggest attraction may be the simplicity and freedom just gliding around under your own power.

For those who want to relentlessly optimize that experience I say let them have their fun as well. If it makes them happy who's to argue? Lord knows I've been down that path any number of times in pursuit of some kind of ideal expereince.

As far as the money goes; my favorite deathbed quotes is, "I only reget my economies".