I made the switch to tubulars this season and I am hooked. I really like the ride. I have two tubular wheelsets for cross races. One set are mounted with tufo elite lps 32's which I really like on dryer fast courses. I have a new to me (used) wheelset which I want to mount up for use on really muddy courses. What do you guys recommend? I can't afford dugasts. I was thinking about the challenge grifo or the new vittoria cross tire. Has anyone tried the new vittorias? Should I stick with the tufos but go smaller like the 30 size?I really want a set that will perform well when it gets muddy. Just want to get some feedback before I drop a bunch of money for tires.

I know you said no Dugasts, but....

They're what I raced on at Nats, and they simply rocked. 28's, which cut through most of the nasty stuff. And the traction wasn't bad either. I rode a bit on my 30 Tufos (pit bike) and it felt like I was riding on pontoons. Traction was pretty poor. The Dugasts hooked up a lot better.

I'd go narrow and find a tread that cleared well for the type of mud you're racing in.

And check here for the bible of mud description:
http://members.aol.com/napavelo/mud.htm

I'd say that Nats had everything from 3 to 10.

And check here for the bible of mud description:
http://members.aol.com/napavelo/mud.htm

I'd say that Nats had everything from 3 to 10.


What we need to know to discuss mud intelligently. Thanks

I've been using tufos and challenge tires this year and I would definitely say that the tufos are not great in mud. I think the harder compound of the tread is bad in wet conditions, and they are treacherous in corners when the track gets muddy. I have had pretty bad luck with flats on the challenge tires so I tend to not use the wheels with them unless I'm pretty confident that it is free of debris. They ride like a dream compared to the tough-ohs. However, all things considered the narrow sized challenge is probably a good bet for the budget minded mud racer. The vittoria tread looks like a great one for mud and it is only available in a rather small casing. This is also probably a good choice, but I have no experience on this tire.

Oh yeah, and if money is no object and you live in europe, I'd say the best tire for mud would be the black michelin mud tread on a 30 casing, like I saw this weekend at GP Sven Nys! You definitely can't get these in the US. So sick!

So bring some back with you. I know you could get a bidding war of tubular nerds going on this board (myself included). I'm curious, you did say if money is no object, so what are we talking, Dugast expensive?

about 100$ a tire. He'll make a tire out of whatever tread you get him. From my experience in the pits at 2004 Nats I'd say Grifos worked better than Tufos. Page won the Napa US Nats on Tufos in serious mud so who knows. I just heard racers complaining about their Tufos at Portland. I ran Grifos @ Infineon in wet clay and they were doing well until a stick or something ripped through my rear sidewall.

Oh yeah, and if money is no object and you live in europe, I'd say the best tire for mud would be the black michelin mud tread on a 30 casing, like I saw this weekend at GP Sven Nys! You definitely can't get these in the US. So sick!

Do you know of anyone who can do this besides "Dugast" (or least he's the only one I've heard of doing it)?

Do you know of anyone who can do this besides "Dugast" (or least he's the only one I've heard of doing it)?


anyone can do it with the adhesives available today. your's might
not last as long and you may be inefficient at it, but it's a low-tech
procedure. adam mcgrath had his own home-brewed versions of
this at the nj usgp series. it was like, "what do you mean i can't
glue these mich treds to this tubie??!!"

So when your tubies get worn you just re-cap 'em?

Oh yeah, and if money is no object and you live in europe, I'd say the best tire for mud would be the black michelin mud tread on a 30 casing, like I saw this weekend at GP Sven Nys! You definitely can't get these in the US. So sick!

They can be had in the US, you just have to know where to look. I have some that I used in Portland @ nationals.

Do you know of anyone who can do this besides "Dugast" (or least he's the only one I've heard of doing it)?

It's not difficult, just time consuming. All you really need is a hot-knife and some good adhesive. I have been making several "other" tubulars since getting the Dugast.

1. Find a clincher tread you like
2. Cut the bead off
3. Use the hot-knife to separate the top layer of tread from the casing
4. glue to a tubular casing (use your hot-knife to remove to old tubular tread).

They can be had in the US, you just have to know where to look. I have some that I used in Portland @ nationals.

Really, Dugasts with Michelin tread? I've seen these only once in the US, on someones bike at a race in Philedelphia. I am going to try to find some of these while I'm here in Belgium.

Really, Dugasts with Michelin tread? I've seen these only once in the US, on someones bike at a race in Philedelphia. I am going to try to find some of these while I'm here in Belgium.

Yup, Dugasts with Michelin Mud 2 treads.

Yup, Dugasts with Michelin Mud 2 treads.

So where did you get them??!!

So where did you get them??!!

From Richard @ Dugast.

From Richard @ Dugast.

How does that work? You supply the tread, they build the tire to your specs? That's gotta be expensive.

How does that work? You supply the tread, they build the tire to your specs? That's gotta be expensive.

Pretty much. You can send him a tire (complete) or just the tread. He can remove the tread if needed. He charges a few extra euro to do so. Then tell him what width casing you want and va-voom.....new tires. Not too bad on the price. Price fluctuates with dollar/euro conversion rates. I don't remember exact price because I ordered several sets/tires.

Pretty much. You can send him a tire (complete) or just the tread. He can remove the tread if needed. He charges a few extra euro to do so. Then tell him what width casing you want and va-voom.....new tires. Not too bad on the price. Price fluctuates with dollar/euro conversion rates. I don't remember exact price because I ordered several sets/tires.

Unfortunately, I'm probably too poor for these right now but it's nice to know it's possible to do from the US. I am going to see if I can find something like this while I'm here, might be a bit less $$$ than from home but I'm not optimistic about that. The dollar is doing so badly, it makes this trip really expensive. Some day...

Unfortunately, I'm probably too poor for these right now but it's nice to know it's possible to do from the US. I am going to see if I can find something like this while I'm here, might be a bit less $$$ than from home but I'm not optimistic about that. The dollar is doing so badly, it makes this trip really expensive. Some day...

Keep an eye out around the parking lots while you are over there. Someone is typically at the races selling various treaded Dugasts out of their car/etc.