Last week, I posted here checking if anyone wanted to take my new 585 out of my greedy little hands. Well, my moment of strength only lasted a few hours. By the end of the next day, my 585 was built. My credit will have to recover later.

I've ridden it 4 times in the last week. I'll post a follow-up review later but I'll put up the photos now.

The size of the frame is 51cm. It weighs exactly 1033 grams = 2.27 pounds with the seat collar. The fork is 298 grams uncut, 268 grams cut.

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Sorry for the photo overload. Anyway, the bike is missing a front derailleur right now (and hasn't needed one on the local short hills). A front der is on the way.

Current weight is 14.91 lbs.

francois










francois

My 51cm 481sl is going up for sale pretty soon!

<img src="http://www.mtbr.com/author/photos/IMG_0566.jpg">

That is the sexiest bike I've seen on this board in a long time. Nice work!

Thanks for the peek. Tell us how it rides and please 'splain why the cages are upside down.

Great looking bike.... You've tempted me to put my 381i up for sale..

Dave

Thanks for the peek. Tell us how it rides and please 'splain why the cages are upside down.

Are those cages upside down??

When I use them the other way, the two bottles get in each other's way.

When I use it this way, it's got good clearance and the cage really grabs the bottle nicely. That lip goes in the skinny part of a large water bottle. However, it is hader to get the bottle in and I'm scratching the heck out of the bottles. I'll probably return them to the normal position.

francois

My 51cm 481sl is going up for sale pretty soon!

<img src="http://www.mtbr.com/author/photos/IMG_0566.jpg">


Francois,

forgive me if I missed something, but I read your earlier post and pics about your 481 SL and you seemed to love it. Can you tell me why you have decided to essentially dump it in favour of the 585?

WBC

That is one gorgeous bike. I need one.
Noticed the palm trees. Where is the weather that good right now?

That is one gorgeous bike. I need one.
Noticed the palm trees. Where is the weather that good right now?

Location is Saratoga, CA... beside San Jose. The weather is good now. We had 17 straight days of rain but have now been blessed with 7 days of sun with no rain in sight.

francois

Francois,

forgive me if I missed something, but I read your earlier post and pics about your 481 SL and you seemed to love it. Can you tell me why you have decided to essentially dump it in favour of the 585?

WBC

The 481SL is the best bike I've ever ridden. It is light, fast, smooth and handles like a dream. Switching to a 585 is a little bit silly for a person of my abilities (cat 4). But... I am industry insider and I don't have to suffer the ~$1000 penalty from this kind of upgraditis.

I'll post a review of the bike later but essentially the 585 is lighter, faster, quicker. I will contend that Look now has the best superbike in the world. I've ridden Colnago C40s, CT1s and Merlin extralights, Trek 5900... and they have nothing on the 585.

francois

Beautiful build! I'm still waiting on my own 05 481SL (supposedly stuck in customs) and find myself waffling - 481? 585? 481? 585?
But I think I'm not quite ready to go compact (plus I'd need a 53cm, which has a steeper head angle than the 481) so I'll stick with what I ordered.
But looking at this makes me wonder...

Nice one!

Very nice.

My LBS is building my 51cm 585 in two weeks' time - also with DA10. Thanks for giving me something to ogle while I wait.

The weight of the frame seems a little off the claimed 990g for a medium size though.

How are you getting on with your EC90 seatpin? Any saddle slippage in that CF bracket?

Thanks

CC

Very nice.

My LBS is building my 51cm 585 in two weeks' time - also with DA10. Thanks for giving me something to ogle while I wait.

The weight of the frame seems a little off the claimed 990g for a medium size though.

How are you getting on with your EC90 seatpin? Any saddle slippage in that CF bracket?

Thanks

CC

What's the EC90 seatpin?

On my first long ride, this EC90 seatpost slipped down an inch. The post was heavily greased and the seatpost bolt wasn't on very tight.

This seatpost slips down easily since it has a very smooth, glossy finish on it. On my last steel bike, I had persistent slipping problems with this post so I put a dab of Shoe Goo on it problem solved! Hopefully, I won't have to do that on the 585.

My frame is definitely not 990 grams. I've got a really good scale. It was 1043 grams until I took out the 4 water bottle bolts and it came out to 1033 grams.

The fork was true to the advertised weight though.

francois

On my first long ride, this EC90 seatpost slipped down an inch. The post was heavily greased and the seatpost bolt wasn't on very tight.

francois

DON"T YOU KNOW!?!?!? You never put grease on a carbon fiber seatpost!!!! :eek:

DON"T YOU KNOW!?!?!? You never put grease on a carbon fiber seatpost!!!! :eek:

i know nuthin.

Time to clean it out then!

francois

i know nuthin.

Time to clean it out then!

francois
the missing front derailleur. A Look seatpost would also look much nicer than the Easton. Have fun and count your blessings regarding the weather--we are now scheduled to see our first sunny and warm day the 5th of July!! (Seattle)

Update!!
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Here's a photo with the bike 'completed'. 15.27 lbs with the computer and cages. I have Zero Gravity brakes coming and possibly a Reynolds wheelset so I have a shot at a sub-14 bike. Why I even try... I don't know.

Changes are the front der and corrected bottle cages. I also put on my more comfortable Aliante saddle.

Here's a quick review.

- the frame/fork combo is incredibly light. It is about 1 lb lighter than the 481 sl, HSC4 that I used to have. This is quite noticeable when riding the bike

- the bottom bracket is stiffer, the front triangle is stiffer. The 481 sl is very, very smooth on the front triangle. It seems designed to flex and be vertically compliant. With the 585 I feel more bumps and have more road feedback. It's not quite harsh because it's 'carbon-muted'. Road vibrations are still muted effectively.

- this bike ac-celerates. this bike climbs. It is a pure performance machine. The stiffness of the bottom bracket and the light weight of the bike really translates to moments of euporia while climbing. Sometimes pedaling on slight grades seems like no effort. I think this just means it's a little more efficient than my old bike and it flatters me.

- the handling of the bike is laser sharp. It's a quick handling bike and it's very precise. I think the compact geometry and the stiffness of the frame play a role in this. I got a glimpse of the true strength of the bike today in a small windy road with rolling hills. Descend, brake, turn, accelerate. repeat... I hope to learn more about this part of the bike in the coming season.

francois

I like the look (no pun intended) of the white seat. Makes it look classy. You mentioned that you changed the seat to a more comfortable one. I'll bet that with that saddle to bar drop you may never be fully comfortable on the butt. That's one thing I learned. More important than the saddle itself is the amount of drop your personal anatomy can handle.

Beautiful machine though. If I was looking for an hour long a&& kikin race machine the 585 would be it. I'm still gonna go for the 481 in credit agrigole colors so I can ride to the cottage in a little more comfort this year. I've been told now that my frame won't come in till mid Feb.

WBC

Conversely I don't think that's very much saddle to bar drop. About 5cm? Very reasonable - and many ride or (especially) race with two or three times that...

Two things would have been nice on the 585 - a braze on front mech and internal cable routing. But I guess you can't have it all.

CC

I also put on my more comfortable Aliante saddle

More comfortable than an Arione!? I've not tried the Aliante, but the Arione is THE most comfortable saddle I've ever tried. Of course, saddles are like a$$... very personal.

Seriously, Francois - that is one beautiful machine! I'm eyeing a 585 also - working on a way to swing it. My LBS has a medium in the same color as yours hanging on the wall. Like you, I'll build it with DA10 and maybe Zero Gravity brakes, but I'll stick with Shimano for the pedals. The handlebars will be an FSA K-Wing that I've got on my 486 right now (I'll put ITM aerobars back on the 486 and leave it built up for TT only). I also think I'll go with a Zipp 303 wheelset...

...and the seatpost must be a LOOK.

More comfortable than an Arione!? I've not tried the Aliante, but the Arione is THE most comfortable saddle I've ever tried. Of course, saddles are like a$$... very personal.

Seriously, Francois - that is one beautiful machine! I'm eyeing a 585 also - working on a way to swing it. My LBS has a medium in the same color as yours hanging on the wall. Like you, I'll build it with DA10 and maybe Zero Gravity brakes, but I'll stick with Shimano for the pedals. The handlebars will be an FSA K-Wing that I've got on my 486 right now (I'll put ITM aerobars back on the 486 and leave it built up for TT only). I also think I'll go with a Zipp 303 wheelset...

...and the seatpost must be a LOOK.

I have a love/hate relationship with the the Arione. Most times, I don't even notice it during a ride. Then once in a while, it just bugs me. It is a firm saddle. There's good but firm padding on it. the nose is very hard and unpadded.

The aliante, on the other hand is a pillow. Padding is more generous, specially on the tip. And, the base/shell is a kevlar net so it has a lot of give. This carbon-rail model is also 50 grams lighter than the Arione.

Niiiiiice plans on your 585. Have you tried the KEOs though? They are simply perfect!

francois

Conversely I don't think that's very much saddle to bar drop. About 5cm? Very reasonable - and many ride or (especially) race with two or three times that...

Two things would have been nice on the 585 - a braze on front mech and internal cable routing. But I guess you can't have it all.

CC

Yeah, my saddle to bar drop isn't that much. Some of my photo angles probably exagerate it. The Arione saddle is quite firm and the Aliante is much softer with a soft shell.

Look wanted the 585 under 1000 grams. They claimed to hit 990 (even though mine didn't). But that just means they had to give on the features like the ones you mentioned above. They also dropped the sliding rear dropouts and the front cable der adjusters.

francois

But it sure looks like a Giant TCR, other than the paint job, the lugs vs. molded, the 'history',
and just about in every other way!! Sorry, had to get that in.

I want that bike! But it's off to some garden variety , inexpensive aluminum race-rocket for now. Thanks for sharing your wondrous toy.

hrv

KIDDING! Man that is a sweet bike. I really love my 461 but that tempts me. I still haven't gotten used to the look of the new D/A crank, but I'll lust after the rest of it;)

Some other toys. Ok, I'm going to pile it on with some other toys for the 585.

First is set ceramic bearings from a company called Boca Bearings. Six for the wheels and two for the bottom bracket.

The American Classic wheels are not known for their bearings but they told me that 2005 bearings are much improved. We'll see during the season if these make a difference. A couple of things I noticed so far:
- when I lift the bike, the front wheel turns. The front wheel has a heavy side and it always tries to fall to the bottom since there is very little bearing friction holding it back. Also, you can blow on the front wheel and it will spin.

- I've drafted downhill a couple of times now and it seems like I was braking a lot as the rider ahead never let off the pedals.

For the Bottom Bracket, the new Shimano Dura Ace BB is a friction pig. Check this out if you have a new Dura Ace BB and Crank. Remove your chain and spin the cranks freely. How many revolutions does it complete? Five??? The bearings are filled with heavy grease and it is double sealed with a bearing seal and a rubber seal. Removing the rubber seal improves things a bit. The cranks spin around 10-15 times. Of course it's less protected from the elements. Now with the Boca bearings, the cranks spin 30+ times.

Does it make a difference??? I'm sure for a top-notch athlete it does. For me, I'm wallowing in winter unfitness so it's too early to tell. I have a lot of timed hillclimbs though so I'll have a better impression by spring.

Finally a photo of a hi-tech shoe that I'm using. It's the Northwave Ti reinforced Carbon shoe. The bottom is art. The top is butt-ugly. I'm always tempted to spray paint it. It works pretty nice. I outsprinted a friend who's crushed my for two years. Maybe he's just out of shape.

francois

Nice frame the 585. The fork is also impressively light and has a good stiffness.

I'm not sure about your bearing comments however. Free spinning without load isn't a very good indicator of friction under actual use. Unless the original Shimano bearings were bad or the BB wasn't aligned perfectly, my guess is that the friction of the original set-up would be negligible in actual use.

I'm so torn on component choices for my 585 (building on Tuesday :D ).

Have a lot of sympathy with the 'it must be Look' seatpost idea, but the Easton EC90 is definitely lighter and also (?) slightly cheaper. I have an old SLR XP I can put on, but the combination of Look post and Arione looks...sweet.

I wanted to use the Easton EC90 Equipe bars, but their warranty is invalidated by use with anything other than a two-bolt stem. So it will probably be Deda 215/Newton for me.

Agree with Divve about the BB bearings, btw. Suspect the actual contribution to inertia is going to be incredibly small anyway...

CC

Ha, ha ha... I will add to the evolving 585 saga.

First off, I'm definitely not in shape yet. My hill climb record on a 30 minute climb is 3 minutes slower as of yesterday. But... I was witness to some remarkable things the new 585 could do yesterday.

I'm a small guy that likes to climb. I ride with a bunch of big guys, triathletes that fly on level ground and straight descents.

Yesterday, I chased down 3 breakaways. These guys were clearly away and I chased them down by myself!! This is significant because I've never done this before on my other bikes. The 585 is an acceleration monster.

The other related thing is on a 35 mph pedaling downhill yesterday, gaps would develop as people passed me to break the wind. I'm out of the draft but the 585 can close down these gaps so nicely. Whomp-whomp on the pedals and the gaps close so quickly. We reached speeds of 40mph with some cross-wind and this 15 lb bike was very, very stable. At 35 mph I like the way the bike has no lateral wobble and each pedal stroke is translated in to pure forward motion bliss.

Yeah, 585 is turning out alright. My mountain bikes might have to stay in the stable quite a bit this season.

francois

For the Bottom Bracket, the new Shimano Dura Ace BB is a friction pig. Check this out if you have a new Dura Ace BB and Crank. Remove your chain and spin the cranks freely. How many revolutions does it complete? Five??? The bearings are filled with heavy grease and it is double sealed with a bearing seal and a rubber seal. Removing the rubber seal improves things a bit. The cranks spin around 10-15 times. Of course it's less protected from the elements. Now with the Boca bearings, the cranks spin 30+ times.

francois

Hey francois,

Nice looking 585. A quick question how did you get the bearings out of the BB cup? Did you tap from the inside or did you use a puller?

Thanks
Wayne

Hey francois,

Nice looking 585. A quick question how did you get the bearings out of the BB cup? Did you tap from the inside or did you use a puller?

Thanks
Wayne

I tapped it from the inside. Actually, Brent from Phil Wood (who is a neighbor) did it for me. You need a vice or something to hold to BB cup (something aside from the frame) and give it a good whack from the inside. One side is easy, the other side is tougher cause there's no lip.

francois

I tapped it from the inside. Actually, Brent from Phil Wood (who is a neighbor) did it for me. You need a vice or something to hold to BB cup (something aside from the frame) and give it a good whack from the inside. One side is easy, the other side is tougher cause there's no lip.

francois

Thanks, always interested to know why Shimano put the "do not disassemble" on their external BBs.

Are you running the bearing without the rubber seals like in the photo?

Thanks, always interested to know why Shimano put the "do not disassemble" on their external BBs.

Are you running the bearing without the rubber seals like in the photo?

The 'do not disassemble' is mostly because the plastic cover for the bearings is fairly fragile. This is the big cup that contacts the cranks and holds a rubber seal. You have to tap this from the inside as well since you can't lift it from the outside without damaging it.

The rubber seal causes a lot of drag so I removed that a long time ago.

I am running a seal on my main bearing (unlike the picture) it's the only protection now from the elements. Funny thing is I took out my rubber seal cause I thought I never ride in the rain. But it seems now, all my rides are wet. I should open up those bearings and check them out.

Keep in mind that the common thought on high-end bearings for the bottom bracket is that they won't make a noticeable difference, since the rpms are so low. I installed these on mine out curiousity and I'm writing an article on them. If I had to pay for them, I'd probably just take out the outer rubber seal, open up the stock bearings, air compressor all the heavy grease out and put some light high-end grease in. You can check bocabearing.com for info.

francois

I have only taken the XT BB cups apart and I know what you mean by the lip seal.

I actually thought by the way how easy the DA BB cup spin (compared to the XT) it actually does not have that outer lip seal, you proved me wrong here.

Cheers

[QUOTE=francois]My 51cm 481sl is going up for sale pretty soon!

I am very interested in your 481 SL if it is still available for sale. I did not see this post in time to bid on Ebay. Please contact me off-line at brentsv@comast.net. I live just south of you in Monterey and could stop by to see/purchase. - Thanks