Hello to all the friendly Roadbikereview readers!
First off, let me point out that you have all corrupted me- as a result of reading the discussions on this website, I have become obsessed in the last year with biking and becoming better at it. A huge "thank you!" to everyone for their posts, help, and friendly advice. You have truly helped make me a better cyclist.

I have researched a fluid trainer vs. rollers, but am still confused and need help on the finer points. Here's where I am at: bought my first road bike last spring. After multiple test rides, I got lucky and found an AMAZING deal on a Kestrel Talon (nice, all-carbon bike) at kimsbikes.com ($500 below list- thank you Jennifer). I've been dying for winter to end so I can ride again soon, and in the meantime wanted to get back on the saddle and train at home. The Kestrel is the only roadbike I own (no beater-bike at the moment).

I know now that rollers are good for balance and developing a better stroke, and that fluid trainers are better for resistance. I would like to know if clamping a trainer on is (relatively) safe for a carbon frame, and if there is an affordable one I could go for? I would also like to know what benefits I can enjoy back on the road (once it warms up) by going for the fluid vs. rollers. Last, I've seen a lot of posts on the Kreitlers. Frankly, I can't spend $400 on this getup, so with price being a consideration, which one is better? Is it worth it for me to wait and save up for good rollers? Or better to just get the $140 Nashbar fluid trainer advertised on the front page of this site, and start my training sooner?

A huge thanks to everyone for their help.

Best regards,
~Nate Lusk

used rollers can be had.
i've never regretted spending top dollar on anything I've actually used.
I assume you've reviewed the periodic debates on rollers/trainers. I'm convinced that a fair number of people who go off on what you can't do on rollers do not appear to me ever to have used them. I have rollers and a trainer. The trainer is good for mindlessly watching the girls go by warming up for a race. Everything else is done on rollers (I have Kreitlers with the wind-resistance unit). I hate the trainer.

used rollers can be had.
i've never regretted spending top dollar on anything I've actually used.
I assume you've reviewed the periodic debates on rollers/trainers. I'm convinced that a fair number of people who go off on what you can't do on rollers do not appear to me ever to have used them. I have rollers and a trainer. The trainer is good for mindlessly watching the girls go by warming up for a race. Everything else is done on rollers (I have Kreitlers with the wind-resistance unit). I hate the trainer.


Thanks Bill! I have indeed read the other debates, however the conversations seemed to concentrate on which they used MORE, not the benefits of either in terms of what to expect once the season came around. From the sound of it, a lot of people prefer rollers because of the ease of use. I was looking for a more technical reason to go with one over the other. Come spring, I don't want to have to work so hard to get back to where I was.

At present, Kreitler rollers have the edge in my mind, but there's no way I'll be able to afford the headwind machine- you can only spend so much on bike gear before you realize "Clothes. They want me to wear clothes to work."

I'll start shopping eBay.

Thank you again!
~Nate

(Anyone have some rollers they want to part with?)

Welcome aboard Nate. A few pointers before I get to the meat:
1. There is a fair bit of sarcasm flying around on these boards. Take none of it as an insult or attack. If someone is insulting you, it will be obvious, then others will step in and call them a jackass.
2. You will be the brunt of several or many jokes because of what you post. It's all in good fun so take it in stride, compliment the sharp wit but keep a short list of people you need to get back at in the future. Joust wit with wit, don't just insult their mother or bike and then log-off.
3. There are no absolutes, just opinions (no matter how backed up by facts they are). Shimano vs. Campy, Ti vs. Carbon vs. Steel vs. Al, Contis vs. Michelins vs. Vreds... who cares! State what you like based on your experience, back up and rebuttal are optional.
4. When you pass 100 posts, you're rookie season is over.

Now, as to what type of trainer, I would consider a heart rate monitor as mandatory equipment and one that I should be added to the overall cost of what you are getting. Since you're starting out and developing smoothness is a must, I would go with rollers. Better to go with a cheap set of rollers and an HRM than a good set of Kreitlers and no HRM.

Learning how to use a HRM is key. You'll get in much better shape with less work and you can taylor your workouts to work on different things (endurance, sprinting, etc). Spring will be here soon so the earlier you can start the train the better.

Hello to all the friendly Roadbikereview readers!
First off, let me point out that you have all corrupted me- as a result of reading the discussions on this website, I have become obsessed in the last year with biking and becoming better at it. A huge "thank you!" to everyone for their posts, help, and friendly advice. You have truly helped make me a better cyclist.

I have researched a fluid trainer vs. rollers, but am still confused and need help on the finer points. Here's where I am at: bought my first road bike last spring. After multiple test rides, I got lucky and found an AMAZING deal on a Kestrel Talon (nice, all-carbon bike) at kimsbikes.com ($500 below list- thank you Jennifer). I've been dying for winter to end so I can ride again soon, and in the meantime wanted to get back on the saddle and train at home. The Kestrel is the only roadbike I own (no beater-bike at the moment).

I know now that rollers are good for balance and developing a better stroke, and that fluid trainers are better for resistance. I would like to know if clamping a trainer on is (relatively) safe for a carbon frame, and if there is an affordable one I could go for? I would also like to know what benefits I can enjoy back on the road (once it warms up) by going for the fluid vs. rollers. Last, I've seen a lot of posts on the Kreitlers. Frankly, I can't spend $400 on this getup, so with price being a consideration, which one is better? Is it worth it for me to wait and save up for good rollers? Or better to just get the $140 Nashbar fluid trainer advertised on the front page of this site, and start my training sooner?

A huge thanks to everyone for their help.

Best regards,
~Nate Lusk

is what Nashbar is selling. Performance sells the same model, diff color. I have that one. So far I like it, like the ability to change resistance on the fly by either shifters or the trainer control mech. This is my second trainer, i wore the first one out.

I also have rollers. With rollers the first thing you notice after mastering the balance act is when you transition to the road, your riding and balance skills are honed. You react quicker to imbalace and your reaction is not exagerated. I think Labicicletta.com has Trax rollers for around $130?

My observations with trainer vs. rollers is I can duplicate workouts easier with the trainer. It seems for me to be a more controlled environment which right now is what I'm shooting for. Later this spring I'll transition to the rollers and hone the balance skills and keep on base training. Both units have their roll, right now I'm hesitant to pick one over the other. As a newer rider I would think that rollers might be a better option, you will gain better skills than just droning on with a trainer.

I have ridden rollers but have migrated to my CycleOps Fluid 2. For me, rollers were harder and require a ton of concentration. You need to try them before you sink alot of money on a set. I like the fluid trainer because it is quite and the base is sturdy. I train on heart rate during the off season and like to focus staying within a tight range and watching mindless TV to make the time go by.

I've had a CycleOps Fluid2 for about a year and a half and it can do a fairly good leg workout. I don't think there's too much to worry about about as far as the clamping action damaging your frame (I use my campy 04Talon on my trainer regularly). On the 04 Talons at least, the droupouts of the frame are made of alloy and the worst that can really happen is a little scratching.

My only gripe with the Cycleops/trainers in general...

1)Is the majority of the workout is in your legs, if you're training to assume an aero position, you lower back muscles don't get excersised quite so much (that's the sensation I get) as compared with actual riding; I think this has to do with the fact that the bike is clamped in a vertical alignment-so you don't have to work to stay upright

2)Most cyclocomputers (wireless) don't do rear wheel mounting so you the only acurate gauge of your 'virtual speed' is by calculating out gear-inches for each gear, and then extrapulating speed from a certain known cadence.

The upside to trainers is that you can do anything whilst getting a workout...watch a DVD/read a book...etc'-because you don't need to concentrate on keeping your balance

I like the way the clamp action on the Cycleops line works: it's fast and convenient; other mechanisms on other brands I see just look like a pain in the a$$ in comparison

I'm thinking about getting a pair of rollers; I've looked around-but haven't come to any conclusions yet...except---"Don't leave PVC rollers out in the sunlight all day long!!"

and i find i am using them almost every day. i hated trainers and really only ride for cross training for..um..life, health, kayaking, etc. read; not a competitive cyclist. but after having failed to ever use any wind or mag trainer i ever bought over the past ten plus years, i find it interesting to be able to ride the rollers. i never thought it was something i would be able to do. maybe it's the novelty of it but i'm still hyped on the rollers. it's not too hard to learn, and still fun after a couple of months. ive also noticed it has helped me hone my position on my current bike as i gravitate towards a sweet spot on the bike.

get the trainer and start your collection of spinervals videos. I hated the trainer until I started using those DVD's and now find the rollers deadly boring in comparison. Actually I use a stationary spinning bike, and don't need my Performance fluid trainer. Let me know if you are interested. I think I bought it for $190, and can sell it and the front wheel stand for $100...(sorry to all about shameless spam)

This past fall, I bought a "watt master" trainer from nashbar. I got it for under 200 bucks and it has been great. Having the current watts output and average watts output, for me, is the most valuable training information. I think that having the trainer with 5 levels of adjustment and a watts measurement along with speed, distance etc. all for under 200 bucks is a good deal. I've never used rollers so, ultimately, I can't say which is better but having a cheap power meter is a huge bonus.

I was in a similar situation back in October. I knew winter was coming and didn't want to lose any fitness when the days got shorter and colder. I decided that I would buy both a cheap fluid trainer and cheap rollers (both from Performance) to see which I used more. Once I figured out which I preferred, I could buy better quality stuff later.

Six months have passed and I've used the fluid trainer for a grand total of about 30 minutes. There's nothing wrong with the equipment - it just doesn't simulate riding enough for me to enjoy using it. I do find the fluid trainer useful in dialing in my bike fit and it also doubles as a helpful stand when I'm adjusting my drivetrain. However, for the purposes of exercise, it's about as much fun as trying to dig a hole in sand.

On the other hand, the rollers get used almost every day for at least 30 minutes at a time. I really like riding them and find that the time flies by due to the need to concentrate on my riding form and the feeling that I'm actually riding my bike. Pop on the mp3 player, surround yourself with fans, and ride your bike. Because I liked them so much, I not only maintained aerobic fitness through the winter but actually improved.

Since I've ventured out on the roads again in the last couple weeks, I've noticed a definite improvement in both my effeciency and handling. I can spin much faster for a longer period of time without problems. I can also take my hands off the bars and get a drink without wandering all over the road.

I might have a different opinion if I was trying to build leg strength or do some very specific training. I don't currently race, though, and just enjoying riding my bike as far and as fast as possible. So, my goals for training are just to improve my form and efficiency while increasing my aerobic capacity. At times, I drop my tire pressure a bit and ride in the 53x(12,13,14,15) gears on the rollers to build up strength/endurance as well.

For me, the choice is pretty easy. I am glad I have both, though - I can always take the trainer with me on vacation or, if I ever start racing, to events for warm-up purposes. However, I think I'll probably have a set of kreitlers by the end of the year since I enjoy the rollers so much more.

- khill

Thanks for the info guys! I think you've sealed it for me- I'll try to find some affordable rollers and go from there.

I hear you on the initiation, Fogdweller. Thanks for the support! (from everyone, for that matter). I took my lumps at the beginning of last season and that was what initially inspired me to log on to this site and start my research. I got smoked by so many people the first month, it made me frustrated, and aggressive about becoming better. By the summer's end, I could hold my own with the pack. Next goal, I want to chase down the hotshots that break from the pack.
In the end though, I just really, really love to ride my bike. I dream about getting on it all through the work day during the summer. It's my first road bike, and since switching from Mtn, I haven't looked back.

So, once I have a HRM and rollers, anyone know of a post that'll tell me how to use the HRM? Or the benefits of using one? My traing schedule for last year was simply "Ride. A lot." I'd like to be a little more precise (but not overly obsessed) with it this year.

Thanks again everyone!
~Nate

...I've been dying for winter to end so I can ride again soon, and in the meantime wanted to get back on the saddle and train at home...

The most important factor will be what will you actually ride. Neither trainers or rollers do any good unless you are using them.

Initial question; what are your goals for 2005? Do you plan to race, triathalons, centuries, hang with the big boys on Saturday morning?

These answers could influence whether to go with a trainer or rollers.

Second question; what are your limiters for riding outside? Snow on the roads? Too cold, buy some winter riding apparel. Limited sunshine and long work hours? Weekend time?

If you can get outside then you can do intervals and hard efforts on the road and pick up finesse and balance on the rollers.

At present, Kreitler rollers have the edge in my mind, but there's no way I'll be able to afford the headwind machine...

No need for the headwind machine. Get the "Lytes" with the 3" rollers and you should have plenty of resistance.

first off, i started on a nice elite fluid trainer... i sold it a few months later after trying rollers once. The feel is what did it for me, much more like really riding since you are not locked in place, the bike rocks back and forth and side to side ever so slightly, and your body learns to compensate to eliminate this.

Also, everyone is different... some people are not comfortable on rollers, and prefer the stability of a trainer. I've been riding my rollers for about 5 years now, and i sit around and watch movies while on them, i can stand up and hammer, go into a full on high rpm sprint and even pull off layers of clothing! So, i'd say anything is possible on rollers, just as long as you are comfortable.

Lastly, i'm sure kreitlers are nice, but my pvc performance rollers have served me just fine for 5 years now, keep 'em out of the sun and they wont warp. They also make accessory aluminum drums, and a magnetic resistance unit if you want a little less of a free from workout...

hope that helps!

gears
pmiska

It may be similar to the Nashbar.

I have not seen a reason for the rollers. I only use the trainer for early work indoors, mainly base milage. It's kind of relaxing to be able to listen to music and zone out for an hour or three on the trainer. On rollers I would probably fall off and go flying when I zone out.

I got a good ebay trainer cheap with all the whistles and bells and electronics. But if you have a speedometer mounted to the rear wheel it can tell you what you need to know. If it has cadence thats even better. The fluid adjustment unit is okay and works but I find I can get all the resistance changes I need just by shifting speeds on the bike.

The trainer is also good for one legged drills. It's easy to unclip one food and hang the foot on the rear wheel support.



Hello to all the friendly Roadbikereview readers!
First off, let me point out that you have all corrupted me- as a result of reading the discussions on this website, I have become obsessed in the last year with biking and becoming better at it. A huge "thank you!" to everyone for their posts, help, and friendly advice. You have truly helped make me a better cyclist.

I have researched a fluid trainer vs. rollers, but am still confused and need help on the finer points. Here's where I am at: bought my first road bike last spring. After multiple test rides, I got lucky and found an AMAZING deal on a Kestrel Talon (nice, all-carbon bike) at kimsbikes.com ($500 below list- thank you Jennifer). I've been dying for winter to end so I can ride again soon, and in the meantime wanted to get back on the saddle and train at home. The Kestrel is the only roadbike I own (no beater-bike at the moment).

I know now that rollers are good for balance and developing a better stroke, and that fluid trainers are better for resistance. I would like to know if clamping a trainer on is (relatively) safe for a carbon frame, and if there is an affordable one I could go for? I would also like to know what benefits I can enjoy back on the road (once it warms up) by going for the fluid vs. rollers. Last, I've seen a lot of posts on the Kreitlers. Frankly, I can't spend $400 on this getup, so with price being a consideration, which one is better? Is it worth it for me to wait and save up for good rollers? Or better to just get the $140 Nashbar fluid trainer advertised on the front page of this site, and start my training sooner?

A huge thanks to everyone for their help.

Best regards,
~Nate Lusk

I guess under goals for 2005 that "get much better" probably doesn't qualify as specific enough.

The current things that are keeping me inside are the cold, salt on the roads, a 60 hr work week, and a sprained ankle (which I keep skiing on anyway).

The goal at the moment is to get something to ride on now, indoors, so I can build strength back up in the ankle early on, and diminish the atrophy my legs are experiencing from inactivity. When summer comes around, Century rides are nice but I'm not worried about them. I've been very lucky that long distance endurance has been the strong suit for my legs. What I'm looking for is have the ability to maintain a higher speed over distance. I know how long it takes me to ride my favorite route, I want to cut that time down even further, and do it repeatedly. I also want to be able to stay longer at the head of the pack, breaking for the group. I know there are a lot of riders who will grab your wheel but won't return the favor, and I don't want to be that guy- I want to pull my weight for the group.

I'm looking to spend $200 on rollers, but that may not happen. Apparently, I also need to get a HRM, but I need to learn what its for and how to use it first.

As usual, thanks for the help! I feel like I've got two dozen people all keeping an eye on me and helping me to learn more. I really appreciate it.

Best regards,
~Nate Lusk

I have both, and used them for different things. When I start my training for the season, I'm basically doing low-intensity stuff w/drills such as spin-ups, etc. The rollers are perfect for this, because the'll help to hone your technique and make you more efficient on the bike (you'll notice big-time if your pedal stroke isn't fluid). Rollers are great for developing technique and efficiency.

Once my workouts start getting harder though, (at this phase of my training I'm not really doing any drillwork anymore) I put away the rollers use my trainer for indoor riding because I need the resistance.

Year-round, most of my recovery rides are done on the rollers because it's easy to just sit there and spin. You don't have to worry about going to hard, and it's a good time and method to keep your balance honed.

If $$ is an issue, I know that you can get a cheap (yet good enough) set of rollers for ~150 and a decent trainer for about the same.

The current things that are keeping me inside are the cold, salt on the roads, a 60 hr work week, and a sprained ankle (which I keep skiing on anyway)...

No need for intensive intervals then if you have time limiters. Go for the rollers to keep your legs spinning and stay in a reasonable zone. Working those hours you do not need to be standing and sprinting on a trainer, you can do everything else on a good set of rollers.

...I also want to be able to stay longer at the head of the pack, breaking for the group. I know there are a lot of riders who will grab your wheel but won't return the favor, and I don't want to be that guy- I want to pull my weight for the group...

Rollers will develop your technique making you a smoother rider. I would rather spend two minutes following a clean wheel that rides a nice straight line than ten minutes following some masher who ground out the hours on a trainer, but is all over the road. Also by fine tuning your technique and cadence you will become a more efficient rider which means more energy to lead the pack.

I'm looking to spend $200 on rollers, but that may not happen. Apparently, I also need to get a HRM, but I need to learn what its for and how to use it first.

Spend you money on the rollers now. Ride based on perceived effort. Once you find yourself using the trainer or rollers on a regular/consistent basis then you can consider an HRM.

No need for intensive intervals then if you have time limiters

If time is a limiter, wouldn't there be a GREATER need for intensive intervals?

If time is a limiter, wouldn't there be a GREATER need for intensive intervals?

If Nate had not atrophied as a result of his injury and inacitvity then a fluid trainer and intensity would make sense. However, intervals and recovery usually do not mix well and could lead to another injury. In addition a trainer could allow for some bad pedalling mechanics as he favors his weak ankle. In his individual situation my impression is that he needs to work on some base miles with easy spinning. The perfect recipe for rollers.

The current things that are keeping me inside are the cold, salt on the roads, a 60 hr work week, and a sprained ankle (which I keep skiing on anyway).

The goal at the moment is to get something to ride on now, indoors, so I can build strength back up in the ankle early on, and diminish the atrophy my legs are experiencing from inactivity.

If Nate had not atrophied as a result of his injury and inacitvity then a fluid trainer and intensity would make sense. However, intervals and recovery usually do not mix well and could lead to another injury. In addition a trainer could allow for some bad pedalling mechanics as he favors his weak ankle. In his individual situation my impression is that he needs to work on some base miles with easy spinning. The perfect recipe for rollers.

Right... but once he's rehabbed his ankle, the trainer is going to be more useful long-term than rollers.

You can dial the resistance to whatever you want with a trainer... not so w/the rollers. Personally, I alternate between the two (see my post above).

For more info on the HRM usage there is a Polar Usage forum here

http://www.pursuit-performance.com.au/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID2&conf=DCConfID1

Lots of good info.