How many of y'all would never use your HRM again if your power meters crapped out?

I recently got a Power Tap, and I can't believe how greatly my power and HR vary when in a specific "zone". Kinda makes me wonder if I have been short-changing my training all along...

Anyone else feel the same way?

Anyone else feel the same way?

Apparently, you're one of the lucky ones that can afford to drop a grand or so on such a device.

Lucky bastid.

Signed,
HRM Slave

How many of y'all would never use your HRM again if your power meters crapped out?

I recently got a Power Tap, and I can't believe how greatly my power and HR vary when in a specific "zone". Kinda makes me wonder if I have been short-changing my training all along...

Anyone else feel the same way?
Had to send my PT Pro CPU in for a warranty replacement. Got it back and took it for a spin yesterday. Heart rate wasn't picking up at all (low battery perhaps). Didn't give me one worry at all. The heart rate response while using my Ergomo goes a little batty at times. Again, no big deal for me. The only time I even consider heart rate is if I'm doing an endurance ride. For level 3 or above, HR is totally worthless to me. Training with power has given me a better sense of perceived effort so the HRM is useless.

One thing about training with power and seeing that heart rate fluctuate, the more you are in shape, the more the heart jumps around. I can be out doing threshold intervals on my usual route which requires 3 ninety degree right turns. I have to stop pedaling in those turns and slow down (gravel, traffic, etc). In just a few seconds my HR will drop 5-10 bpm.

Apparently, you're one of the lucky ones that can afford to drop a grand or so on such a device.

Lucky bastid.

Signed,
HRM Slave


LOL!!! Man, I've been saving like crazy... and pretty much sold anything and everything that had been laying around in my basement and garage to come up with the necessary $$$.

But I will say this - it's well-worth every penny! I mean, I see guys drop more than a grand on a new set of wheels, or new frame, etc... IMHO, Nothing will help your riding/training with greater effect than a Power meter.

Yeah, well that's a sign of good fitness - you're recovering well from your efforts.

The biggest thing that I noticed was during my Threshold workouts as well - my HR rose steadily throughout the interval, and eventually surpassed the "ceiling" for that zone before the interval was over. Normally, I would have backed off to keep it "in the zone", but the power tap told me that the effort was still consistent. So that means that in the past, there was a good chance that I was not getting all of the benefit from my hard work, because I backed down when I should have keept going. Very cool!

Does training with a power meter actually help you if you don't have the time and discipline to log all the information in the computer and spend a couple hours a week analyzing the data and adjusting your training plan?

How many of you guys keep computer records that detailed?
How many hours a week do you train?
Are you coached?
Do you work full time?
Are the hours spent staring at the gadgets not lost hours of training?

I am really curious, the devices are expensive but the non-training time required is what bugs me more, I can easily afford the device.. I am a big believer in carefully selecting your intensity level for each workout, but I question at what level you actually need the power meter.

I've seen articles on Lance, Chris Carmichael, USPS/Discovery, etc.. maintaining a huge database of power/heart/speed/altitude information and using it for training. I bet they have several full time people just to analyze this data. It doesn't even seem like the other pro teams can utilize these devices as well as they can.

I have a HRM that can download info to the computer and in the end I have not ended up taking advantage of that feature. I use the HRM to gauge my efforts maybe 50% of the time on the bike but I usually just feel like I don't have time to mess with the computer after each workout.

I know here (Boston) there are very few Cat 4 & 5 riders who have Powermeters, SRMs, etc.. and I don't even really know if that many Cat 3 riders are using them. At what point does the power meter become a necessary training device?

All that said I have a power meter type device built into my Tacx trainer and it does seem like a very interesting measurement. I don't put much faith in it though because the trainer is not the road and I feel like my body is overheating inside which is killing my power output.

Is there any coach or training book which has a sensible protocol for an amateur to benefit from these devices without wasting a lot of time in front of the computer?

I'd also be curious to hear any of your stories, if you are kicking serious butt since you started using your powermeter, etc.. and if you think it really made the difference, what kind of race wins did it help you get, did you move up in Category, etc.. Was it the device or did you make further lifestyle changes and added dedication to training which could have made the difference?

Does training with a power meter actually help you if you don't have the time and discipline to log all the information in the computer and spend a couple hours a week analyzing the data and adjusting your training plan?

Well, one of the cool features with the Power Tap is that it downloads everything when you hook it up to a computer - so it takes about 2 minutes total per day to "log" the info. And honestly, I spend about 5 minutes a day "analyzing" the data - if that.

How many of you guys keep computer records that detailed?
How many hours a week do you train?
Are you coached?
Do you work full time?
Are the hours spent staring at the gadgets not lost hours of training?

~10-12 Hours per week
No
Yes
No... I don't spend hours "playing with the gadgets". And believe it or not, it actually saves you time because you can ensure that all of your workouts are "quality". For instance, can now get a ride that used to take me 3.5 hours done in 3 hours and know I'm getting the same benefits (if I eliminate coasting, slacking, etc...) because of the total energy expended. Now, I know that 3 out of 3 "Threshold" workouts are on the mark instead of 1 out of 3...

I am really curious, the devices are expensive but the non-training time required is what bugs me more, I can easily afford the device.. I am a big believer in carefully selecting your intensity level for each workout, but I question at what level you actually need the power meter.

If you're a "big believer" in carefully selecting your intensity level for each workout, you'll love the power meter. Why? Because it's an accurate representation of exactly how hard you're working. I mean, how can you "carefully select" intensity via means of a device that isn't accurate?

I've seen articles on Lance, Chris Carmichael, USPS/Discovery, etc.. maintaining a huge database of power/heart/speed/altitude information and using it for training. I bet they have several full time people just to analyze this data. It doesn't even seem like the other pro teams can utilize these devices as well as they can.

They are PROS. They have a lot on the line, so making sure that they have the highest quality data and training is of the utmost importance. We are not PROS.

I have a HRM that can download info to the computer and in the end I have not ended up taking advantage of that feature. I use the HRM to gauge my efforts maybe 50% of the time on the bike but I usually just feel like I don't have time to mess with the computer after each workout.

I know here (Boston) there are very few Cat 4 & 5 riders who have Powermeters, SRMs, etc.. and I don't even really know if that many Cat 3 riders are using them. At what point does the power meter become a necessary training device?

Probably never. If you want to get the "most" out of your training time, it's a great tool to have. But people have been racing and training for 100+ years without one so....

All that said I have a power meter type device built into my Tacx trainer and it does seem like a very interesting measurement. I don't put much faith in it though because the trainer is not the road and I feel like my body is overheating inside which is killing my power output.

Well, that's the beauty of power! You can see the negative effects of things like heat/dehydration on your workouts because you can see the power #'s drop.

Is there any coach or training book which has a sensible protocol for an amateur to benefit from these devices without wasting a lot of time in front of the computer?

I'd also be curious to hear any of your stories, if you are kicking serious butt since you started using your powermeter, etc.. and if you think it really made the difference, what kind of race wins did it help you get, did you move up in Category, etc.. Was it the device or did you make further lifestyle changes and added dedication to training which could have made the difference?

I haven't had it long enough to tell... but I've known people who have made more gains in one season training with power than the previous 2 or 3... Thats' what convinced me to buy one!

Thanks for answering the questions.

I know it doesn't take long to download the data to the computer... the question is what are you doing with it...

Eventually you are going to have to analyze that data along with your race results to decide if what you are doing is worth it or not and how to adjust your workouts.

That is the difficult part... coaches, shops, etc.. all seem to say I should buy this device but not many of them can give me a plan to utilize the data.... (I KNOW shops/online places benefit if I buy them but I also suspect coaches are getting perks to sell them, as many of them resell their preferred model)

If the meter is $1000 I think I will be inclined to spend $1000 on coaching first, and if the coach really feels that the meter is absolutely necessary then I would consider getting one.

Honestly, I'd get the coach first... if you're not a "data head", you can just send him your data and let him do the analysis for you.

I use one piece of software called Cycling Peaks that actually does most of the "analysis" for me. Here's where the real benefit comes in - let's say that at a given race I expended 2000kj of energy. I know that to adequately prepare for this event next time, I need to work my training so that I have enough endurance to do 2000kj worth of work in a session. Secondly, let's say I get in what turns out to be the "winning break" but get dropped before the finish. During that winning break, I sustained 450 watts for 3 minutes.

I can now take that data and structure my workouts so that I build up to being able to sustain 450 watts for say.... 5 or 8 minutes... or whatever... see what I mean?

And I know that from test to test whether I'm getting better or not. If on test 1 I could sustain 270 watts for 20 minutes and 6 weeks later I can sustain 290 watts for 20 minutes, I KNOW that I'm improving and my training is going well. You can't do this w/HR or speed (unless you have *exact* conditions from test to test).

Now another point... most people schedule their workload by hours (9 hours week 1, 10 week 2 and so on), but do they really know what their actual "training load" is? With power data, you can tell exactly the amount of load that leads to adaptation and exactly the amount of load you can sustain before you start to overreach.

If this sounds interesting at all, and you're not a "data head", get the coach first.

Check this out:

http://www.peakscoachinggroup.com/Power_Training_Chapter.pdf

It's a little "techie" but...

http://www.racelistings.com/rzone/articles/article.asp?recid=256

and...

http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411.html

Thanks for answering the questions.

I know it doesn't take long to download the data to the computer... the question is what are you doing with it...

Eventually you are going to have to analyze that data along with your race results to decide if what you are doing is worth it or not and how to adjust your workouts.

That is the difficult part... coaches, shops, etc.. all seem to say I should buy this device but not many of them can give me a plan to utilize the data.... (I KNOW shops/online places benefit if I buy them but I also suspect coaches are getting perks to sell them, as many of them resell their preferred model)

If the meter is $1000 I think I will be inclined to spend $1000 on coaching first, and if the coach really feels that the meter is absolutely necessary then I would consider getting one.


Yes... this is key. I trained with a coach for a year just using HR. I was super impressed with my growth and decided to step up my training this year. I now have a new coach and an old PT (2000 Tune, $330 on ebay). I'm accomplishing more with the PT, but I'm also more aware of what it's costing me in terms of energy expenditure to do the work. I'm making much better use of both my training time and recovery time because I can quantify the amount of work I'm doing in each workout.

A good coach can certainly help you to use your data effectively to develop (and keep developing) a training plan that reflects your growth.

I'm a big fan of Cycle-Smart. Their coaches use power meters in their own training and the training programs are largely built around training with a power meter.

Will I see more gains? Probably, I'm more fit now than I was at the end of last summer. More importantly, I know I'm not digging too deep and burning myself out before the season even begins.

Right... let's say you have a year's worth of data, and after looking back at some particularly hard weeks you see a trend. You noticed that when your total "training load" went over X, you had a hard time recovering.

So now, if you see yourself approaching "X", you know to back it down a notch before it's too late.

How many of y'all would never use your HRM again if your power meters crapped out?

I recently got a Power Tap, and I can't believe how greatly my power and HR vary when in a specific "zone". Kinda makes me wonder if I have been short-changing my training all along...

Anyone else feel the same way?


Without a doubt! ;)

It has made a huge difference. Especially when looking at LT intervals or what I now refer to as Power Pulse intervals. Also race data on given courses plus being able to look back at last years data of the same course!

Lets say I am doing an interval for 15 minutes at 300 watts and my target HR is 174 bpms. If I start my interval and my HR doesn't go up I know my body isn't fully recovered and I should lay off a little until I get more rest. If I am out on the road and I hit the first hill and my perceived effort is tougher than it should be at a given power over a hill I ride everyday I know I should lay off and these things keep me from exhausting my body. Also if my HR is a few beats lower I can push my power up during intervals and see if my HR responds so I can get the most of my interval training

Thanks for answering the questions.

I know it doesn't take long to download the data to the computer... the question is what are you doing with it...

Eventually you are going to have to analyze that data along with your race results to decide if what you are doing is worth it or not and how to adjust your workouts.

That is the difficult part... coaches, shops, etc.. all seem to say I should buy this device but not many of them can give me a plan to utilize the data.... (I KNOW shops/online places benefit if I buy them but I also suspect coaches are getting perks to sell them, as many of them resell their preferred model)

If the meter is $1000 I think I will be inclined to spend $1000 on coaching first, and if the coach really feels that the meter is absolutely necessary then I would consider getting one.
If you know what you are doing, you can self coach quite easily with a power meter. It will take a little time to analyze your power data, track your progress, follow your daily, weekly, monthly TSS points, etc. But if you can, you can achieve quite good gains with a power meter.

If you want a coach and a power meter, I suggest you hang out at www.topica.com/lists/wattage/read for a little bit. There are exceptional coaches that inhabit that list that are early adopters of power and have developed training programs around power.

Just got the PowerTap SL model last month. CyclingPeak software does a great job analyizing the data. It even breaks down how much power you can sustain in 5s, 10s, 30s, 1 minutes, and etc intervals. In important thing is that power reading tells you how hard you are working, irrespective to your HR and other variables like wind and course profile. I will never go back to HR training again. :) Also, when your training is broken down to numbers, you can always increase it.


How many of y'all would never use your HRM again if your power meters crapped out?

I recently got a Power Tap, and I can't believe how greatly my power and HR vary when in a specific "zone". Kinda makes me wonder if I have been short-changing my training all along...

Anyone else feel the same way?

Apparently, you're one of the lucky ones that can afford to drop a grand or so on such a device.

Lucky bastid.

Signed,
HRM Slave

Hey, that's his version of a NorthFace jacket. Don't hate.