Ha ha...first thread in the Shimano forum!!!!

Ha ha...first thread in the Shimano forum!!!!
I think that pretty well sums up why there is a Shimano forum. I don't dislike Campy,.... - TF

I suppose owning anything Campy, even if its one of Campy's lower lines, buys you the privelage to pose and snob. This one is comparable to driving up into the middle of a Corvette rally in a Neon and boasting about Dodge.

Thanks for the laugh!

Tequila!

I suppose owning anything Campy, even if its one of Campy's lower lines, buys you the privelage to pose and snob.

Oh pul-LEEEZE.

I suppose owning anything Campy, even if its one of Campy's lower lines, buys you the privelage to pose and snob. This one is comparable to driving up into the middle of a Corvette rally in a Neon and boasting about Dodge.

Thanks for the laugh!

Tequila!
that was great, these guys are poseurs with bottom of the line campy.....HAHAHAHA

that was great, these guys are poseurs with bottom of the line campy.....HAHAHAHA

Let's mix it up a smidge. I use Shimano due to the first few road bikes I owned being equipped with Shimano 600, the nice looking scrolled stuff. So naturally I bought Shimano tools to repair my Shimano equipped bikes. Since Dura Ace is way too expensive I've since used Ultegra on my bikes with the exception of one old do-everything (mostly coffee rides) bike that has 8 year old 105 in great working order. Let me mention that my Ultegra is all 9 speed. I always here that Campy is great, better blah blah blah, blah. To each his own or do we really need to show off and align ourselves with "certain" brands for bragging rights? Is anyone of us non-professional riders getting payed to use any certain brand of bike part? If so, please share with the rest of us since I like many of you have certainly spent a nice chunk of change over the years on bike parts. Here's the dealy-o. With Shimano users we generally accept that Ultegra is nicer than 105 and Dura Ace is nicer than Ultegra. Why is it that every time campy-philes need to put down Shimano and then talk about how great Centaur is. Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Centaur third from the top of the line in the Campy group????? I always here how spending more for Campy is better. Why the hell wouldn't you go with the next to the top of the line or even Record if your favorite bike part manufacturer is the cat's ass?! Must be the cheapest way to get into the "club" eh?! Someone please enlighten me and don't start with the usual b.s. about Campy, it's been done to death. Please let me say in closing that should anyone care to convert me over to Campy, (might as well make it Record) I will accept it graceously. Please feel free to drop by and install it on my bike due to my not owning any Campy tools.

P.S. Cranks: 172.5 mm and bottom bracket is standard English threaded.

Both systems are good, and they both have strengths and weaknesses. Shimano has a completely different shifting feel and hood design. I like the feel of campy but, to each his own, right? and it basically comes down to personal preference. Beyond that, it's just fun to make fun of the other team right!

So why is Centaur so great? I'll give you one simple reason: cassettes, with shimano the cheaper the cassette the cheaper the metal used, you get down to Tiagra and 105 and you're talking cheap, right? With Campy the steel cassette rings used in Chorus, Centaur and Veloce are exactly the same, they just use cheaper spacers in the lower groups to save money but add weight. (Record is different because its meant for racing and uses titanium.) So you get the same shifting quality from Veloce to Chorus but it just weighs more. Thats just one reason...

Both systems are good, and they both have strengths and weaknesses. Shimano has a completely different shifting feel and hood design. I like the feel of campy but, to each his own, right? and it basically comes down to personal preference. Beyond that, it's just fun to make fun of the other team right!

So why is Centaur so great? I'll give you one simple reason: cassettes, with shimano the cheaper the cassette the cheaper the metal used, you get down to Tiagra and 105 and you're talking cheap, right? With Campy the steel cassette rings used in Chorus, Centaur and Veloce are exactly the same, they just use cheaper spacers in the lower groups to save money but add weight. (Record is different because its meant for racing and uses titanium.) So you get the same shifting quality from Veloce to Chorus but it just weighs more. Thats just one reason...
Why are you preaching Campy on a Shimano forum? Who are you trying to convince? Give it a break! - TF

first bike (17 years ago) had 600 gears and athena brakes - still have no preference for one or the other. not sure i understand why there is so much argument as to which is best. in 17 years of using both i've never managed to work out if one is better than the other.

bring back suntour, mavic and sachs....

Why are you preaching Campy on a Shimano forum? Who are you trying to convince? Give it a break! - TF


Pound sand. Thommy asked to explain why campy is so great, I gave one reason, the cassettes. Hardly preaching. I'm not trying to convince anyone, he asked for reasons I gave one.

Pound sand. Thommy asked to explain why campy is so great, I gave one reason, the cassettes. Hardly preaching. I'm not trying to convince anyone, he asked for reasons I gave one.

Forgive me if I ramble; too much Tequilla and O.J. early Sunday mornings as I write stuff. Go back and re-read my post.
Why Centaur when Chorus and Record are much nicer?
That, is the question. Thank you.

Why doe's shimano out sell campy at about 10 to 1 ?

I actually dont think it does. But it also depends on which markets you were to compare. For example if you were to be talkign about the entire bike market, seeing how campy doesnt make a mtb group anymore you might be right.

Both have their points of difference, and campy is still lighter then shimano and lasts longer but it getting more expensive; or at least it appears that way.

I run both shimano and campy, I perfer the feel of campy and the shifting of shimano. Now what would kick butt would be if one group brought the best of both together.

I actually dont think it does. But it also depends on which markets you were to compare. For example if you were to be talkign about the entire bike market, seeing how campy doesnt make a mtb group anymore you might be right.

Both have their points of difference, and campy is still lighter then shimano and lasts longer but it getting more expensive; or at least it appears that way.

I run both shimano and campy, I perfer the feel of campy and the shifting of shimano. Now what would kick butt would be if one group brought the best of both together.
I would say 10 to 1 is with high end road groups. Overall has to be has to be much greater than that. I would guess something on the order of 1000 to 1. - TF

I would say 10 to 1 is with high end road groups. Overall has to be has to be much greater than that. I would guess something on the order of 1000 to 1. - TF

From what I see, it appears as though most shops push shimano because its easier on them. but with the people I ride with its a clear 1:1

Both Campy and Shimano are nice. Just with Shimano your break something be ready to replace the entire unit. Campy break it and it get's a replace part at a price. Otherwise both work great and do great jobs. I personally like Campy. Peace! GO LANCE!

If campy is so good why are Lance , Ivan and Jan not using it?(Its a question not a retort)

If campy is so good why are Lance , Ivan and Jan not using it?(Its a question not a retort)
Mostly because they could not care less. The bike is just a tool and both work. I've known one Cat2 racer who didn't even know if the race bike had Shimano or Campy. - TF

If campy is so good why are Lance , Ivan and Jan not using it?(Its a question not a retort)

Because they are paid to ride it. I like Campy. I ride Campy. But Campy doesn't pay me. If Shimano wants to pay me, I'll ride Shimano.

All stock trek and giant bikes are shimano equiped too. Does shimano pay them too?

All stock trek and giant bikes are shimano equiped too. Does shimano pay them too?

No, Shimano doesn't pay Trek or Giant to use their components but they do give the large bicycle companies deep discounts. Shimano is able to do this because of the large production volume and relatively cheap labor availible in Asia. Campagnolo, being from Italy, can't discount their products as much as Shimano.

No, Shimano doesn't pay Trek or Giant to use their components but they do give the large bicycle companies deep discounts. Shimano is able to do this because of the large production volume and relatively cheap labor availible in Asia. Campagnolo, being from Italy, can't discount their products as much as Shimano.
But are the quality from the two brands the same?(Like record and dura ace)

No campy record is noticeably better.

Why does the cheapest POS road bike in a bike shop come with shimano?

Ha ha...first thread in the Shimano forum!!!!

I know this is a dead horse thread... but Campy evangelizers are like Mac addicts... always feeling the need to prove something to overcome their minority status.

But are the quality from the two brands the same?(Like record and dura ace)

Yes, the quality is the same.

I know this is a dead horse thread... but Campy evangelizers are like Mac addicts... always feeling the need to prove something to overcome their minority status.

Would that make Shimano evangelizers like PC/Windows addicts ... always dealing with continued failures because they think there's no other choice?

I hope all of you are kidding... Marketing Marketing Marketing....... And go into any shop and ask real cyclists and mechanics if Record is better; Regardless of what they ride, majority will say Record. I do have Centaur on one of my bikes,not because I'm a poser, but rather because I like the ergolevers, the fact that as I put miles on the grouppo it only shifts better, and yes, the look and heritage DO matter to me ( but hey, nothing says cycling like japanese). If Shimano is soooo great, please tell me why then. I know its been discussed WAY too many times, but I love hearing the reasons........ Thanks.

If you wish to disregard the 1980 to the present Campy has a spotless record.

Syncro
Syncro II
Any mountain group
sgr pedals
Campy invested most of the 80's making little pictograms of it's features while Shimano was actualy making them work. Now Campy has adopted all of Shimano's features. From about 1985 on Shimano has a very good history in europe.
Shimano is making history not resting in it.
It''s like you are saying Greg Lemond or Lance Armstrong had no business racing in the tour becouse they are not european. I have been to europe. Just becouse it's made in italy doe's not make it good. They make crap like everyone else.I just don't understand this closed door mentality.
It looks like Shimano is going to better Campy on the electronic shifting also.

Ok, now this surely must be a joke. Talk about close minded. Have YOU ever used campy? Crap huh. Come on, even die hard campy fans don't talk as much s*** about shimano as you are about campy. Get a life dude. Oh, and you're right. Greg and Lance have no business racing since they're not European. Come on now, where did you get that from............... And as far as the electric shifting goes, its a moot point, because no one will buy it. Maybe you haven't looked around this site, but 99% of the people on here think its pointless (too complicated, too many chances for problems, cable activation works fine). If you're preaching that new is always better, than you're wasting everyone's time by posting worthless comments.

I have 3 Campy equiped bikes now & parts to build a few more. All my Campy bikes are friction shifting from the 80's. In fact my favorite road group of all time is the original c-record.
Remender that group? It originaly came with the defective delta brakes. Campy replaced them with the cobalto brakes until the bugs were worked out of the deltas. The ones with the blue stone in the pivot bolt. I think that was about the time Shimano came out with sis shifting & duel pivot braking. I must say my c-record still works as good as when it was new!

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I know this is a dead horse thread... but Campy evangelizers are like Mac addicts... always feeling the need to prove something to overcome their minority status.

This is dead wrong. Both companies are sole-sourced, comparing to Mac and PC computers is ridiculous. Maybe one thing is correct here, Mac has better video, and I do prefer the looks
of Campy.:)
If you own a porsche or some other jewel like Campy and someone says you are in a minority status, then fine, one should enjoy the status.

Shimano never won a race, Campy never won a race.

" I don't mind being driven, I just don't want to be taken for a ride."

It is alot like Microsoft & Apple!
Super Record is to dos what Dura Ace is to Mac OS what the current Record is to Millennium.
Campy had the bare bones record group in the 80's. Shimano came along with this huge improvement with 7400 Dura Ace. Campy changed the entire system to be be more like
Shimano's OS.:eek:

ShimaNO can't be rebuilt, looks worse, feels cheapers. Campy for Life hands down. MAC and windows both suck. use linux.

If you wish to disregard the 1980 to the present Campy has a spotless record.

Syncro
Syncro II
Any mountain group
sgr pedals
Campy invested most of the 80's making little pictograms of it's features while Shimano was actualy making them work. Now Campy has adopted all of Shimano's features. From about 1985 on Shimano has a very good history in europe.
Shimano is making history not resting in it.

Shimano made many mistakes as well: it took them three generations of Dura Ace wheels to offer something that finally is up to par. And when the 9s DA was launched, the cranks couldn't be fixed to the octalink bb (now abandoned, but the new system is leaving riders with the left crank attached to the shoe), racers were still using the older Look style pedals (in fact shimano had to wait for the Look patent to expire to finally make nice pedals, from which Lance came off twice during the Tour), the head of the seatpost moved in the tube, the cogs required thin spacers here and there, the brake pads drove everyone crazy and had to be changed twice... still a great success though.
But Campy was far ahead with composites, differential brakes, a very nice wheel range including full carbon wheels, nice threadless and integrated headsets, nicer hubs and other things I can't remember. And they're very late with crank/bb system, I admit.
In fact, talking about mistakes, Shimano introduced STI in XTR and for 2007 had to bring back to older and better traditional shifters, was late with triples (so late they released DA triple when everybody wanted the compact), late with compacts, late with 10 speed (if you care for 10 speed, but the demand was there).
It will be very interesting to see what will happen with electronic groupsets, totally useless IMHO.
Sorry for my invasion in the Shimano field, I ride Campy.

first bike (17 years ago) had 600 gears and athena brakes

Now that's a lot of shifting! :D

Why is Shimano shifting mechanism ssoooooooo large? Reason,
they can't copy Campy's patented system which is sooooooo nice and
mechanically small so that it doesn't look like a set of bull horns on a bike.

No, Shimano doesn't pay Trek or Giant to use their components but they do give the large bicycle companies deep discounts. Shimano is able to do this because of the large production volume and relatively cheap labor availible in Asia. Campagnolo, being from Italy, can't discount their products as much as Shimano.

So in your words Italy enjoys a higher standard of living than Japan?? Interesting, and is it also your opinion that Fiat is a more successful automotive company than say Toyota? Hmmm...

So in your words Italy enjoys a higher standard of living than Japan?? Interesting, and is it also your opinion that Fiat is a more successful automotive company than say Toyota? Hmmm...

No and no. My words included nothing about standard of living or Fiat.

No and no. My words included nothing about standard of living or Fiat.

Your words did reference Asia having a lower labor burden. Japan still produces Dura Ace (which is what I am referencing since most on here have been trumpeting how great Record is) and enjoys a similar standard of living that the West does. I simply rebutted your statement. Record is more chi chi, but doesn't work as well. Shimano designs with tight tolerances for the slick shifting that we all know. Campy clunks into gear but can be rebuilt. I personally like getting a new bike every year so the rebuildable argument is a waste for me. Shimano can discount due to production volumes, not cheap labor (not including Soria in this argument). Economies of scale...

crappy or you mean campy?? hahahah

crappy or you mean campy?? hahahah

Ah, it's so nice to know that a 2 year dead thread resurfaces...so warming:).

Ok, are you really that insecure about your desicion that you have to say shimaNO or campagnogo every time you mention it? I have also realised that campy users are very protective of their product and at any time will take the chance to insult shimano, or that they are worse just because they are made in japan or that they make fishing poles too. Also who CARES wich pro uses wich brand, there PAID to use campy or shimano, saying that campy has won more times in the pro tour really doesnt matter at all, neither does saying that lance won the tour 7 times with shimano. Ive ridden both, and there both exellent choices. Im a bit bias towards shimano not because they make better products, but every other campy owner is a complete snob.

Someone lock this thread up already.

Gregg?? :D

Its like choosing between Toyota or BMW. You want it to work or you want it to feel good. I have '07 Record and the plating is peeling off the chainring like a '57 Fiat bumper. But it feels great shifting! Oh, and bye the way, there is no warranty on cosmetic defects!

I have always had Shimano due to............???? Well, because it is what I always opted for. I would love to try Campy to compare but it is not like Campy is Pandora's Box calling my name until I have no willpower to resist.

If someone ever let's me ride a Campy equipped bike I will decide for myself which I like. That being said I have always been the person to get the model right below best......so I have Ultegra and love it and for the cost difference I think it to be best in the Shimano lineup.

No campy record is noticeably better.

Thats objective BS really they both work great.

I switched from Shimano to Campy and love the way the Campy shifts. Granted I upgraded when I went to Campy so I am sure that has a little to do with it but recently I borrowed a bike with Shimano and learned that the brake lever distance to the bar is much greater on the Shimano. As a woman I don't have very larger hands (actually avg size for a woman) but I found the reach to the Campy levers was much more comfortable and obtainable then the Shimano. This (and the new enhancements for 2007) was enough for me to upgrade again when I just ordered my new Serotta. I just simply have a hard time reaching for the brakes on Shimano which I think is sort of important riding in South Florida with all our crazy drivers.

I hate the Campy only mentality. It's elitist. Only real snobs preach about their Campy being so white hot.

SRAM Force for the win!



(I ride Ultegra.) :D

My first "Real" road bike was all Campy, back in '82. The up-starts from Japan then were lead by SUNTOUR not Shimano. I still have the old celeste Bianchi, take it out from time to time just for stylin. When I got into MTB in '89, the only real drivetrain was Shimano, there was nothing else that worked as well on the trail. I have built up 3 other road bikes since then and they have all been Shimano, including my '06 Colnago MXL. As a matter of fact the only thing Italian on the mike other than the frame and fork is the Cinelli bar tape! I use DA der's cassette and calipers, Ultegra brifters, and I really like the way they work, flawlessly, every time.

ShimaNO can't be rebuilt, looks worse, feels cheapers. Campy for Life hands down. MAC and windows both suck. use linux.

So LINUX must be SRAM Force according to this threads' analogy!! :D


A friends' 05 Campy Record drive train was very noisy, it never seemed to be in gear. He's tried several different cables and still had to make constant fine adjustments. :mad2: He finally found an aftermarket pair of replacement pulley wheels for the rear derailleur. They introduced "play" so the chain could find the center of the chain ring with out making all that chatter!! So much for Campy precision!! Shimano introduced play years ago.
My 8 spd and 10 spd DA drive train bikes are very quiet and fast shifting. Campy for looks and DA if you want it to work!

So LINUX must be SRAM Force according to this threads' analogy!! :D


A friends' 05 Campy Record drive train was very noisy, it never seemed to be in gear. He's tried several different cables and still had to make constant fine adjustments. :mad2: He finally found an aftermarket pair of replacement pulley wheels for the rear derailleur. They introduced "play" so the chain could find the center of the chain ring with out making all that chatter!! So much for Campy precision!! Shimano introduced play years ago.
My 8 spd and 10 spd DA drive train bikes are very quiet and fast shifting. Campy for looks and DA if you want it to work!

Your friend was a terrible mechanic. High-end Campy and high-end Shimano are both ridiculously easy to work on, and both work really, really well, at least when new. Old Shimano can wear out and needs to be replaced, but other than that is pretty good.

Your friend was a terrible mechanic. .........................

Actually it was the LBS that sold him the CR1 and they did much of the work. He was never satisfied and would try and tweak it himself. The LBS found a guy in Penn. that makes a replacement pulley wheel that is slightly narrower then stock Campy pulley wheel. This allows the wheels to move slightly side to side in the cage and allowing the chain to find the center which eliminated the chatter. Others must have of had this problem too, otherwise why would this guy be making them!

Actually it was the LBS that sold him the CR1 and they did much of the work. He was never satisfied and would try and tweak it himself. The LBS found a guy in Penn. that makes a replacement pulley wheel that is slightly narrower then stock Campy pulley wheel. This allows the wheels to move slightly side to side in the cage and allowing the chain to find the center which eliminated the chatter. Others must have of had this problem too, otherwise why would this guy be making them!


Not all shop mechanics are created equal, either. Lots of pulleys are out there, and many are different widths. I've got two separate Campy kits that have been on 4 different bikes now, and with no issues.

Why is Shimano shifting mechanism ssoooooooo large? Reason,
they can't copy Campy's patented system which is sooooooo nice and
mechanically small so that it doesn't look like a set of bull horns on a bike.

SRAM's are about the same size as Campy right?

SRAM's are about the same size as Campy right?

Campy 10spd. is a little smaller then their 9spd. which were very comfortable.
SRAM FORCE is more comfortable and a little larger/better shaped then current Campy (my opinion).

DA offers more hand positions!

Single speed will solve anyone problems, unless we're going to debate over who makes better chain rings... :rolleyes: