I know the idea of a lightweight steel bike is a bit of a contradiction, but for my next bike I am considering a custom steel frame and wanted to see how other people built up their bikes to a respectable weight. I am probably not going to go with one of the super light tubesets (s3, Columbus Life), but what are the possbilities?

Thanks

Colnago Tecnos (Lugged using Columbus Tecnos Tubing). swapped tecnos stell fork fork Reynolds Ouzo Pro (all Carbon 1" steerer). Easton Carbon Bars. Campy Record components (except Chorus Crank and Fr. Mech. as weight savings and difference in quality are very little but is considerably more expensive). could have saved weight w/ carbon post but record Ti looks better (my wife doesn't race, so I was going for modern classic appeal). Campy Proton wheels (got them cheap) I could have saved weight w/ nicer wheelset. if you are racing put your dollars here as rotational weight is most important. Bike is probably around 17 lbs and change. could have easily had it in the 16's.
now it isn't a 15 lb uber racer but IMHO after 70 miles you will feel fresher and that will make you faster.

I have only owned steel, and when I bought a new bike in the fall, I just could buy the proverbial beer can. So, I picked up a Columbus Foco tubed bike (Specialized Allez Cromo) and with Dura-ace et al. it's around 17.5 - 18lbs on the bathroom scale. Big weight savings, now in the middle of the pack for weight.

When my wife will allow the upgrade to custom, I want a Serotta custom steel frame, like the CDA model with the carbon seatstays. And the paint your bike software is fun to waste a lunch hour with!

I know the idea of a lightweight steel bike is a bit of a contradiction, but for my next bike I am considering a custom steel frame and wanted to see how other people built up their bikes to a respectable weight. I am probably not going to go with one of the super light tubesets (s3, Columbus Life), but what are the possbilities?

Thanks
what is lightweight to you? I can get my 62cm MXL under 20 pounds with a light wheelset. Pretty light for that size of a bike and it's plenty stiff. The main problem with super light steel frames is that you sacrifice durability and/or stiffness.

I know the idea of a lightweight steel bike is a bit of a contradiction, but for my next bike I am considering a custom steel frame and wanted to see how other people built up their bikes to a respectable weight. I am probably not going to go with one of the super light tubesets (s3, Columbus Life), but what are the possbilities?

Thanks

Fillet-brazed S3 Vanilla, sloping TT virtual 57cm
Fork: Reynolds Ouzo Pro
Shifters: Record shifters
FD: Record
RD: Record
Cables: Record
Chain: Record
Cassette: Record, 12x25
Crank: Record CF
Stem: Deda Newton - 120mm
Bar: Deda 215
Tape: Deda
Post: Deda Blackstick Magnesium
Saddle: Fixik Arione
Pedals: Look 357
Tires: Vredestein Fortezza
Tubes: Specialized Airlock
Wheels: Ritchey AERO, Hugi 204, Revolution spokes

weight as described - 17 lbs. 6 ozs.

Opportunities -

Pedals: -150 grams with Speedplay X3
Tires: -200 grams with Veloflex Records
Tubes: -100 grams with some lightweight tube
Saddle: -125 grams with SLR
Wheels: -100 grams with Speedcific/DT set

Possible weight - 16 lbs. or so.

There are lots of custom steel bikes that are under 20 lbs and lots that are heavier. I would start visiting the builders web sites that you are interested in and start asking what they can do for you in the weight range you are looking to put your bike at.

Like the other posters have said, there are fully loaded steel bikes under 18 lbs. IMHO if you are not racing, why do you need to go any lighter than 20 lbs?

I know the idea of a lightweight steel bike is a bit of a contradiction...
People commonly think that, but it's not necessarily true. It's just that it's easier to get a light alum bike than a steel one off the shelf. But get a custom builder like Curtis Inglis or the Sycip brothers to build a steel frame. It'll be close to aluminum weight.

Component weight plays a big factor in the final poundage too. Often time too much attention is paid to frame weight IMO.

I wish I still had the link, but there was a steel trade show bike by True Temper that was on display once that weighed in around 15 pounds.

People commonly think that, but it's not necessarily true.
But to have a really light steel bike you have to sacrifice durability or stiffness or both. I think there are better materials out there if you just have to play the lightweight game.

But to have a really light steel bike you have to sacrifice durability or stiffness or both. I think there are better materials out there if you just have to play the lightweight game.

Which brings us back to your original (as yet unanswered) question - "what does the original poster consider light?"

I have 6 steel bikes - my MxL weighs 20 on the nose and frankly it rides like a rocket. If someone dropped me in the saddle from a helicopter and made me pedal away, I'd never know it weighed that much. You only know it when you get off and pick it up. The Vanilla I described above feels much lighter in hand, but I'm no faster on it. The other steelies I have - Kirk, Bianchi, Gunnar, Pinarello - all vary from 18+ to 19+ lbs. and feel great. None of them sacrifice anything in stiffness, but durability - I guess I'm willing to bet the MxL could outlive them all. Except perhaps the Kirk, which was built very intelligently out of Reynolds 725 and while light-ish - feels very solid.

I guess I consider any bike under 20 to be light enough. It was fun to build a reasonably solid lightweight aluminum bike (16 and change) but again, I'm not faster on it.

Right now I ride a

Calfee Tetra Prow/ Alpha Q full carbon fork
Mix of DA 9 and ultegra drivetrain
Sram Cassette
FSA Compact Carbon Crankset,
Profile bar and stem
FSA Carbon Post
wheels built by oddsandendos.com

the bike is light, but I have actually never weighed it (which might tell you how much i am concened about weight)

I bought the framest used, and have never been completely comfortable with my position on the bike. That is my main reason for thinking custom. My previous bike was a custom Landshark (853), which I really liked. Great ride and comfortable. I live in the Chicago area, so weight isn't a major issue ,no hills around here :( I do like to go somewhere once a year and do some climbing, but I think in reality I am going to suffer whether i am on a 16 lb bike of a 20lb bike.

I have talked to a few builders about their process, etc. Sycip said they wouldn't build a bike out of S3 or ultra foco, which made me think twice about going that route. They said it was too brittle and didn't really have the normal springy feel of steel. I see that Steelman builds a lot out of Deda 14.5, which i would think would have the same issues as the other lightweight steels.

So, i guess to me a lightweight steel bike would be in the 17.5-18.5 lb range

Interesting comment on Sycip and S3. Dave Kirk refused to build me an S3 bike, not because I'm a big guy but because he didn't care to stand behind his lifetime warranty on a frame that in his words would break instead of collapse in an accident. I thought that refusal showed a great deal of integrity. And relative to Ultra Foco, I received the same stance from Carl Strong who would only use it for the top and down tubes, but not the seat and head tubes.

Yet there are plenty of bikes being built with the analogues (like EOM16.5) such as the Bianchi Boron and Pinarello Opera. Perhaps the bigger builders are less concerned with having to deal with a irate customer, face to face.

No argument though from Sacha White on my S3 frame and Waterford touts their S3 bike as the lightest steel frame available.

Built by Mike Zanconato in Worcester, Mass.

Custom lugged frame with Deda Zero tubes and Sachs lugs.
Mike Garcia wheels (Velocity AeroHead rims, Speedcific hubs)
Conti GP3000 tires
All carbon True Temper Alpha Q fork
Easton carbon bars
Thompson Masterpiece seatpost
Ritchey WCS stem
Fizik Aireone saddle
Speedplay X2 pedals
Truvativ compact carbon/alu cranks
Centaur/Chorus/Record mix
Custom paint from Hot Tubes

With a 50cm seat tube, the whole bike weighs 17.5 pounds on the bathroom scale. A very, very plush ride (thanks in large part to those tires, I imagine). I can ride it all day. But on the hills I prefer my no-name alu frame with old Ultegra 9, American Classic 420s and a mix of older carbon parts. 15.5 pounds.

With all the goodies (cages, pedals, etc.) my 54 Strong is 19.5 lbs on the nose.
It's nothing (nothing) fancy:
Foco frame
Wound Up fork w/ steel steerer
Full Ultegra 9 groupo
OP w/ Ultegra hubs and 14/15 spokes, brass nipples
SS Speedplay Zeros
Thomson post
Bontrager race stem and bar
Selle Italia Gel Flite
Michelin Pro Race tires.

I could lose a lot of weight on the bike - a new fork and wheels would shed a lot of weight. I could get it down to about 17 just by going all carbon on the fork and getting some chi-chi wheels.

I'd like some race wheels, but really this is the best riding bike I've pedaled. It's stable to 65 mph on downhills and is crazy stiff even when I'm (pathetically) mashing the pedals.

But to have a really light steel bike you have to sacrifice durability or stiffness or both. I think there are better materials out there if you just have to play the lightweight game.
Good point.

Chas Roberts (the famous english frame builder) describes this as a summer training bike at under 18.5lbs and is equiped with "S&S couplings" allowing the bike to be "folded in half" for easy transportation.



whilst at the Islington (UK) bike show last Sept there was a Roberts steel framed bike that Weighed 12lb and i had the pleasure of picking it up as i didnt believe the man on the stand. before then i didnt believe there were 12lb bikes never mind made of steel. find the right builder and i am sure you can pick a weight assuming you are willing to pay the going rate!

I know the idea of a lightweight steel bike is a bit of a contradiction

You're fooling yourself thinking this! It's a popularly held falacy that steel is consistently heavier than other materials. A custom builder will build YOU the lightest frame YOU can ride, and it could very well be down around 2 - 2 1/4 lbs. Single-event steel bikes have been below 2 lbs, but you obviously don't want to pay for those. A smart builder, too, will build a frame that gets stiffer as the tubes get thinner/lighter, so you won't end up on a noodle.

Here's mine. It's not that light, at 17.5 lbs, but the kit is where the weight comes from, and it will get much lighter with a few extras (race wheels, new stem, bars, fork, RD). Buy good steel and don't look back...no talk of "should I have bought carbon, aluminum, etc"?

I have a 59 cm Hans Schneider built from Columbus Neuron with steel fork, quill stem, Dura-Ace 9 speed and OP 32 spoke wheels. It weighs about 19 lbs. If I were still racing, I might build a set of carbon rim sew-ups but otherwise it would be fine. With carbon rims and a carbon fork, weight would be 17 1/2 lbs but I wouldn't be any faster.

The important thing for me with a custom steel frame was not so much about weight but getting other features I wanted. There are lots of custom steel builders so try to find one close to your home and meet with him at least once. The experience of talking about riding style & what you want and how that translates into frame geometry and build considerations is an extraordinary delight. In the south SF Bay Area consider Jon Tallerico, working out of the Bicycle Outfitter. Not the fastest delivery, but exactly what I wanted in build and paint.

My lugged, 60ish cm frame with Columbus carbon fork, FSA compact crank, Record/Chorus drivetrain/shifters, Centaur brakes, 32 spoke OP wheels, Look pedals = 20 lbs. I've also got a 17+ lb Calfee Tetra semi-custom that has dramatically different handling characteristics. If what you want is lightweight don't build in steel.

I rode a Merckx MX Leader for years. The only thing I did weight wise is to swap the steel fork for a Reynolds carbon. The ride characteristics did not change, it was still a cruise missile. I bought this bike when I was stationed in Washington state. I lived at the top of the highest hill around, so getting home after a long ride was always a challenge. I still had the steel fork at the time, so the bike weighed about 22.5 lbs with 9S chorus and 32 spoke wheels. I also had an 18lb Cannondale at the time with similiar components. I would rather climb on the Merckx anytime because the frame was responsive and everything I put into the pedals went to the wheel. I also felt comfortable at 50+mph on descents on this bike. As long as I am not 5% body fat, I am not going to obsess about bike weight. You have to love what you ride. I ride an aluminum Pegoretti now, but it is not a lightweight although it is about 4 lbs lighter than the merckx. I just recently had the Merckx restored and repainted. It is still in the box because it is not worth building it up out here in Hawaii. I had both chainstays chromed, but the order was messed up so the entire bike was chromed. The chrome was scuffed on the rest of the bike so it could be painted. I had the old fork painted as well, it didn't get chromed. The insides of the tubes have been rustproofed. One day I will build it back up when I don't have to move every three years. Want to make a steel bike light? Throw your waterbottles in the ditch at the base of a climb.

My winter project is a steel race bike (pics to follow in the next couple of days). It's a custom Strong frame about 57-58cm and witch straight DA and American Classic 350s sits at 17 even. I'll have to think about what I can do to drop it under 17 but I don't think that's really going to matter in the long run. This thing is going to be a rocketship.

This'll build up a lightweight gal without breakin' the bank...

http://www.voodoocycles.net/model-rada.html

In weight-weenism, the saying goes: light weight, durability and price...pick two. I have a steel Serotta mountain bike and a steel Serotta road bike. The mountain bike I built up as my absolute dream bike while keeping weight in mind...money was less of a consideration. I'm quite happy with it's 21 lb weight and it definitely blows the 19lb aluminum mountain bike it replaced in ride quality. I'm a steel believer. That's why I later got the steel road bike. Not the slimmest road bike around at 19 lbs, but it rides real well and I somehow managed to spend less than $1000 (bought the frame on eBay), built it up with less than top of the line parts. I built it up with Ultegra, truvativ elita cranks, bontrager select wheels, wound up fork, egg beaters, carbon record seatpost, and SLR saddle.

If you ask me, get a Serotta. Fully custom, great quality, lifetime guarentee, and pretty light. If I had the cash, I'd get a CDA too, like sickitty, with the carbon rear end. Darn sexy bikes in my opinion.

In weight-weenism, the saying goes: light weight, durability and price...pick two. I have a steel Serotta mountain bike and a steel Serotta road bike. The mountain bike I built up as my absolute dream bike while keeping weight in mind...money was less of a consideration. I'm quite happy with it's 21 lb weight and it definitely blows the 19lb aluminum mountain bike it replaced in ride quality. I'm a steel believer. That's why I later got the steel road bike. Not the slimmest road bike around at 19 lbs, but it rides real well and I somehow managed to spend less than $1000 (bought the frame on eBay), built it up with less than top of the line parts. I built it up with Ultegra, truvativ elita cranks, bontrager select wheels, wound up fork, egg beaters, carbon record seatpost, and SLR saddle.

If you ask me, get a Serotta. Fully custom, great quality, lifetime guarentee, and pretty light. If I had the cash, I'd get a CDA too, like sickitty, with the carbon rear end. Darn sexy bikes in my opinion.


Don't think you could have spent $1,000 any wiser than you did on your road bike - hat's off!

Man, only $1000 that is pretty mind boggling.

I spent $1100 on my Steelman SS crosser. But, that's without shifters or derailleurs.

Good Job!

We both have some nice steel rides! And, both Bonty Selects!

My folding, steel Slingshot was about 19lbs when I received it, with really nothing too exotic.

Slingshot 55cm steel folding frame (by no means the lightest!)
True Temper Alpha Q carbon fork
King headset
Ritchey WCS stem
ITM Millenium bars
Full 7800 Dura Ace 10 39/53, 12-25
Dura Ace 7800 wheelset
Conti GP 3000 tires
Thomson seatpost (420mm, uncut)
Flite gel saddle

Which brings us back to your original (as yet unanswered) question - "what does the original poster consider light?"

I have 6 steel bikes - my MxL weighs 20 on the nose and frankly it rides like a rocket. If someone dropped me in the saddle from a helicopter and made me pedal away, I'd never know it weighed that much. You only know it when you get off and pick it up. The Vanilla I described above feels much lighter in hand, but I'm no faster on it. The other steelies I have - Kirk, Bianchi, Gunnar, Pinarello - all vary from 18+ to 19+ lbs. and feel great. None of them sacrifice anything in stiffness, but durability - I guess I'm willing to bet the MxL could outlive them all. Except perhaps the Kirk, which was built very intelligently out of Reynolds 725 and while light-ish - feels very solid.

I guess I consider any bike under 20 to be light enough. It was fun to build a reasonably solid lightweight aluminum bike (16 and change) but again, I'm not faster on it.

"I'm no faster on it" is a very good point. Light weight bikes are an ego thing. I hang my bikes from the ceiling, and when I pull down my Look, I think man, this things a pig. (It weighs a touch over 20lbs.) But on a fast group ride, I have no more difficulty hanging on the Look even on hills than on a 16lb bike (I used to have :( )
There are several websites that have very good info on tubesets and materials. None of which come to mind, other than Torelli. Punch up Torelli.com and check out the frames, and within that he goes over the Columbus tubeset types.
One comment that I have heard from a seemingly knowing guy at an LBS is that the superlight steel bikes have to go with oversized tubesets for stiffness, causing them to have a harsher ride, mitigating the original reason to go with steel. His other comment was that ultralight framesets (in any metal) will not go on season after season. They are short term racing bikes and the stresses of hard riding will stretch them out and fatigue the material. I know this is true of sailboats, and it makes sense that it is true in bikes. Probably a good caveat when buying a used lightweight frame, or when having your ultimate custom "last bike I'll ever own" built.
To the poster with six steel bikes... My wife freaks out that I have 3 bikes. You impress me!

The Fondriest Status steel frame is 3 pounds. The newest one has carbon seat & chainstays, mine older frame just has a carbon seat stay. Total weight with Record components is 18 pounds. The ride is much better than the aluminum bike I've tried, and it's only .5 pounds heavier than aluminum frames in its price range.

....built out of OX platinum (basically a 57cm frame) Campy Record, Speedplays, Rolf Prima elan Wheelset, Alien Carbon, Look HSC 2..... With Ciussi cages it weighs 17 lbs on the nose. The frame itself weighs in at 3.6 lbs I believe.

You're doing the right thing not going with S3. I'ts basiically a disposable steel. My builder has now gone to putting OX platinum stays on his fillet brazed S3 frames after both he and a customer snapped chain stays on their all-S3 frames.

I look at it this way: The average aluminum/aluminum carbon frame weighs in around 3 lbs. The average high-end steel frame comes in at 4 lbs or less. (Using compact geometry would probably save a littlle weight) That's a 1 pound difference on average that is easily offset by components choices. If I went with a new carbon crankset, carbon bars, Synace stem, ti pedals and ti bb, I'd have a bike that weighed close to 16 pounds.





I know the idea of a lightweight steel bike is a bit of a contradiction, but for my next bike I am considering a custom steel frame and wanted to see how other people built up their bikes to a respectable weight. I am probably not going to go with one of the super light tubesets (s3, Columbus Life), but what are the possbilities?

Thanks

The Fondriest Status steel frame is 3 pounds. The newest one has carbon seat & chainstays, mine older frame just has a carbon seat stay. Total weight with Record components is 18 pounds. The ride is much better than the aluminum bike I've tried, and it's only .5 pounds heavier than aluminum frames in its price range.

Carbon seat stays alone can add 1/4 to 1/2 a pound to any bike, and don't really seem worth it (for ride quality) on a steel bike. I would guess that prodigous use of the right carbon chainstays could add some much-needed sprinting stiffness to a light steel frame, and I'd suck up a half pound for that. Now, to find a builder...

Carbon seat stays alone can add 1/4 to 1/2 a pound to any bike, and don't really seem worth it (for ride quality) on a steel bike. I would guess that prodigous use of the right carbon chainstays could add some much-needed sprinting stiffness to a light steel frame, and I'd suck up a half pound for that. Now, to find a builder...

At 3 pounds and not using S3 steel, it makes me doubt that the carbon is adding weight to this particular frame. I wouldn't be surprised if it helps the stiffness though, as it feels pretty stiff while under power, while also having a very smooth ride.

I'll just say this... you steel guys need some cameras. Where's the gosh darn pics???

fc

[QUOTE=francois]I'll just say this... you steel guys need some cameras. Where's the gosh darn pics???

these were posted in a couple other forums but I'm sure proud to show them./
best part did this complete bike for under 2 G. this was my wives Valentines day present.

[QUOTE=francois]I'll just say this... you steel guys need some cameras. Where's the gosh darn pics???

these were posted in a couple other forums but I'm sure proud to show them./
best part did this complete bike for under 2 G. this was my wives Valentines day present.
Man, is there a head tube in there? :D Nice bike!

I can't figure out how to get a larger image to fill the screen at 100k, but here's a low-res shot. if anyone who knows Iphoto wants to explain to me how to resize a file without being left with a puny pic I'd love to hear about it.

the specs:
custom stainless lugged frame
Rolf Prima elans
2000 Record Gruppo
Prima 199 bars
ritchey WCS 110mm
Use post,
aliante carbon saddle
Speedplay x2
HSC 2 fork





[QUOTE=francois]I'll just say this... you steel guys need some cameras. Where's the gosh darn pics???

these were posted in a couple other forums but I'm sure proud to show them./
best part did this complete bike for under 2 G. this was my wives Valentines day present.

it's a 49 C-T, a tiny bit small in the ST but perfect reach for her. between the chrome lugs you can see the HT. I used a shiny silver King Headset to extend it visually.
yes it's very nice, am quite jealous every time I come home.

what is lightweight to you? I can get my 62cm MXL under 20 pounds with a light wheelset. Pretty light for that size of a bike and it's plenty stiff. The main problem with super light steel frames is that you sacrifice durability and/or stiffness.

No one has mentioned Zona Megatube, as shown here on the '03 Professional. Light, not uberlight, but plenty strong and you don't take a hit on the ride quality. It ain't no al-loo-MIN-ney-yum ride, :D and it certainly ain't a noodle. A great tubeset for heavier riders, (right now I'm 207 lbs.). This has a 56.13 TT, 40.38 chainstay, and 73.0/73.0/45 angles. Nice touches are the pump peg & chain hanger. I got the frame/fork/HS for $225. like-new. Best money on a bike I've ever spent.

I haven't been able to weight it frame-only yet, but it wouldn't be hard to get this to 18 lbs. with changing just wheels/tires, saddle, and brakes or fork.
The other steel I'd want is Spirit, for example the '05 Orbea. That loses around 300 grams from the Zona frame, but is not stupid light. Price is fairly reasonable at $999. SRP.
.
.

Wow, just weighed my seatpost, 360 grams. =)

My Fondriest Status (steel frame w/Carbon seat stays). Should be just under 18 pounds when I get a decent seatpost. Front & rear wheels don't match, waiting until OddsAndEndos.com gets black front hubs in stock:

http://www.basaltic.com/misc/CRW_4724.jpg

Not a featherweight but not heavy, either.



Dedacciai Less-Than-Zero tubeset, fillet brazed
Easton EC90 SLX fork
Chours gruppo with 12-25 block on the back
Mavic Reflex CD 32, x3, double butted w/Tufo elite road tires
Chris King headset
Thompson seatpost
Airone saddle
FSA 120 stem
Deda Newton anatomic bars
2 elite ciussi cages

I could easily get this below 18 lbs with some Ti compnents, but why bother? Bike is rock solid, ultra-reliable, smooth and nimble.

They've got a sweeeeeeet 80's era Nag all pantographed and campy'd out next door in your size.

I know the idea of a lightweight steel bike is a bit of a contradiction, but for my next bike I am considering a custom steel frame and wanted to see how other people built up their bikes to a respectable weight. I am probably not going to go with one of the super light tubesets (s3, Columbus Life), but what are the possbilities?

Thanks
Try a pegoretti, I built a marcello that weighed 16.5 pounds with record and neutron wheels, I have also built their palosantos at my shop at sub 18 pounds depending on the kit :)

I am building a Chris Chance Road at the moment which will look at 7,5 kg. Other nice options in my opinion are IF (obviously) and Brent Steelman. Steep on the price, but what a finish!

My recent built of a '99 Schwinn Paramount (lugged, 853 tubing) came in at 19.25 lbs, and there's absolutely no 'lightweight' stuff on it. That's on the bike shop's scale, before I put the cages on it, FWIW, but I've got a pave saddle (not ti rails,) steel fork, Chorus 9 (al) drivetrain, Thomson seatpost and stem (not ti or carbon fiber,) speedplay stainless zeroes, and handbuilt 'training' type wheels - velocity rims, centaur hubs, with training tires. By my napkin math, I could save about a pound on a carbon fork, and another -- I dunno, pound or so? with 'race' wheelset and tires, not to mention something like an SLR saddle with carbon post, and however much using a gruppo with more carbon.

*shrug*

But that's not the point of this machine anyway. Just when it comes down to it, how much of the weight of a bike is in the frame? Nice steel frames aren't THAT much heavier than carbon ones, are they? A couple of pounds?

The image won't copy right, for some reason, but a bad picture I quickly took was :

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=25069

I got all on ebay complete of frames and then parts. all were about 1500 or less (except the c40--got carried away with my desire there: 2k)
As frames alone, all my steel bikes were close to 3.4 lbs on my scale, except the waterford 1200
56 cm pinarello opera, eom 16.5 it rides great, and is pretty stiff 18lbs with record and open pros
55 cm (sloping) bianchi boron--think this is also eom, maybe even stiffer 18lbs with chorus and am classic/velocity areohead
54 cm moser tk1--zero ht, smooth, not as stiff just shy of 19lbs with chorus and chorus/aerohead (wrong size, so now a frame--3.4)
56 waterford 1200, reynolds 753, SMOOTHEST, currently just a frame, was 19+ with chorus and open pros
have a new never built moser tk1 in correct 56 cm size
and just picked up a 56 cm coppi genius carbon 3.4 lbs

my c40 with record 8 and shamals is 20lbs--very smooth and good response (stiff)
my calfee tetra pro (56) with chorus and rolf siestre is 17.5

I am selling most of these soon as i start residency in july. plan on keeping the calfee (love it) and the bianchi (best combo of feel and handling and doubt it will command much)
may keep one frame--either the moser or the coppi

anyway, on my 3-4 hr rides i can't honestly say which bike is best--all the steel are great.
tyring to go fast in rock creek park (DC area), i go faster up hill in the calfee
feel/go fastest overall on the c40--think those shamals make a difference.

i weigh 170 and don't race--i am thinking about it, but need to get some group/cornering skills first.


good luck--i have ridden good carbon, ti (colnago titanio, litespeed vertex) and aluminum (coppi kcs)

if i ever have to go with just one, it will be steel
my moser has great fit and finish--the bianchi is more fun.

jim

Nice steel frames aren't THAT much heavier than carbon ones, are they? A couple of pounds?

A pound, maybe? No frame should weigh under 1.8 lbs or so (900 g should be the lower limit?), and no "nice steel frame" should weigh more than two-and-a-half to three pounds.

Nice bike - here's your pic:

<img src='http://forums.roadbikereview.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16739&stc=1'>