Maybe it's just me, but the Opera bikes (not the Pinarello Opera model, but the separate line) just do not provoke the same lust in me. Why bother?

By the way, anyone can find a 52cm Prince SL in Fassa colors?

...that Pinarello had an exclusive agreement with Dedaccai (large tubing manufacturer) and the Opera brand was created so that materials not offered by dedaccai at the time could be used, i.e. carbon, ti

Maybe it's just me, but the Opera bikes (not the Pinarello Opera model, but the separate line) just do not provoke the same lust in me. Why bother?

By the way, anyone can find a 52cm Prince SL in Fassa colors?

...that Pinarello had an exclusive agreement with Dedaccai (large tubing manufacturer) and the Opera brand was created so that materials not offered by dedaccai at the time could be used, i.e. carbon, ti

That's what I heard too. That and the fact that Pinarello had made a lot of noise about not building bikes in those new-fangled materials.

...that Pinarello had an exclusive agreement with Dedaccai (large tubing manufacturer) and the Opera brand was created so that materials not offered by dedaccai at the time could be used, i.e. carbon, ti

This is correct. If you want a little more info, I posted about this in the Pinarello forum a few weeks ago, but it is because Pinarello has an exclusive contract to only use Dedacciai tubing on their frames and there was enough demand that they produce a carbon and a Ti frame (Deda doesn't offer tubesets for either, instead opting to develop Magnesium frame tubing) so Pinarello's only option was to spin off a separate division of Opera bikes.

Russ

except that Deda does offer carbon tubesets -- my Fondriest uses Deda carbon, and I think Ciocc and one or two others are using Deda carbon tubes, as well.

except that Deda does offer carbon tubesets -- my Fondriest uses Deda carbon, and I think Ciocc and one or two others are using Deda carbon tubes, as well.


I could be wrong on this, but are you sure your entire frame was made by Deda and not just the stays? I know Deda makes carbon seat and chainstays for frame builders, but do they build the entire frame, or do they just offer the pre-built stays? I could very well be wrong, but I didn't think Deda offered carbon tubesets, and stays are not a full tubeset.

Either way, the reason for spinning off Opera bikes was to use non-Deda tubing... regardless of if Deda offers carbon tubesets or not. But thanks for the heads up either way.

Looking at the wording on Fondriest-USA's site, they make it out like they manufacture their carbon themselves (at least for the Top Carbon, which was the only bike I read about) so I do wonder if Deda is making the bike or just the rear end? Anyone know for sure?

Russ

I could be wrong on this, but are you sure your entire frame was made by Deda and not just the stays? I know Deda makes carbon seat and chainstays for frame builders, but do they build the entire frame, or do they just offer the pre-built stays? I could very well be wrong, but I didn't think Deda offered carbon tubesets, and stays are not a full tubeset.

Either way, the reason for spinning off Opera bikes was to use non-Deda tubing... regardless of if Deda offers carbon tubesets or not. But thanks for the heads up either way.

Looking at the wording on Fondriest-USA's site, they make it out like they manufacture their carbon themselves (at least for the Top Carbon, which was the only bike I read about) so I do wonder if Deda is making the bike or just the rear end? Anyone know for sure?

Russ


Also, regarding the Ciocc frames... the only frame they make that is full carbon is an Easton GX2 frame. The hybrid Al/carbon frames use Deda stays, but from what I can find about Ciocc bikes, their full carbon is not a Deda frame, but an Easton frame.

Russ

This is what I'm talking about
http://info.product-finder.net/reparto/Ciocc-Carbon-Frameset.html
My Fondriest is the P4, which I always understood to be made of Deda tubes. Fondriest isn't making it anymore (I can't even find much in the way of links, anymore; the Cyclingnews piece, http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/?id=2002/reviews/fondriest_P4, is about a different iteration, I think, because the tubes don't look the same). I had heard it was because Fondriest thought that he had an exclusive on the Deda tubeset until Deda disabused him by allowing Ciocc and, I think, one or two others to use the tubeset. But I could be wrong.

I don't know anything about Opera, but Dedaccia also has a carbon glue it yourself custom whatever angles tube/lug series now.

I don't know anything about Opera, but Dedaccia also has a carbon glue it yourself custom whatever angles tube/lug series now.


Yep! I just found it.... finally after looking for a while.... Deda does indeed actually offer a full tubeset.... but he's the thing.... it's new for 2004... so this makes for a happy thread because everyone was right.... Deda does now offer a carbon tubeset, but didn't at the time Pinarello spun off Opera bikes.... Bill and I are both right. But the Deda stuff is called the DCS tubeset and as of right now, very few sets have actually been imported into the US (a few handfulls, from what I can tell.)

Cool... I guess you really do learn something new everyday.

Russ

Opera is basically a Pinarello. Thie earlier posting is correct, in order for Pinarello to build in other materials he had to branch off legally. If the afficianados now and research who the bike is made by does all this name stuff really matter? it's the ride that counts. I have seen and ridin a few of these bikes and it is as plush and responsive as any other top of the line Italian bike. The reason we bought Pinarellos years ago was the elusiveness and mystery behind the bike that was winning all over Europe. You could be the first guy in the local bunch to own one and you will be pleasantly suprised on how beutiful it rides. I liked it so much I bought one for my wife (Giorgioni) who said it is so solid it is like being on auto pilot when riding. I'm saving for the Leonardo.

Also, Dedacciai tubing is very expensive. If Pinarello wanted to offer a different price range, they would have to find some less expensive materials. Not that Operas are cheap, but the deda tube and the comparable (metalurgically exact) tube from a non-labelled manufacturer would have a big difference in price.

Sorry but Opera only uses the best tubing in what ever the Material is of chioce. Eastan Scandium is second to none in properties and craftmanship which is used in its Giorgioni. It has been well debated on how Eastan stands up to Tiawan on drawing Scandium. Only the best hi-modulous carbon fiber in its Leonardo. Do you have any Idea where dedacciai carbon material is made? The material in Opera is only premium product. Also how you make the frame and the type of carbon has a huge change in stifness and ride quality. Pinarello has no reason to cheapen its product. Mater of fact I think their Opera brand is slightly more expensive.

FWIW, I like the Opera bikes much more than the Pinarello bikes. I had a team issue Prince and it was nice but I didn't like it that much while I got my hands in this awesome Pinarello Opera steel frame that I really liked. I guess that they didn;'t make the steel bikes under Opera but it stayed with me and I kind of the like the Operas now.

....one shop can sell Pinarellos, another Operas. I've heard that this is one of the reasons...

FWIW, I like the Opera bikes much more than the Pinarello bikes. I had a team issue Prince and it was nice but I didn't like it that much while I got my hands in this awesome Pinarello Opera steel frame that I really liked. I guess that they didn;'t make the steel bikes under Opera but it stayed with me and I kind of the like the Operas now.

I agree with Serpa23. I have 02 Prince and Opera (steel), and I like the latter a lot more for its wonderful ride quality. What I don't understand, though, is why Pinarello designed its Opera logo that is so similar to what CycleOps uses. If I owned CycleOps, I would feel very uncomfortable about it. Has anyone heard of a case of leagal battle between the two over this issue?

I agree with Serpa23. I have 02 Prince and Opera (steel), and I like the latter a lot more for its wonderful ride quality. What I don't understand, though, is why Pinarello designed its Opera logo that is so similar to what CycleOps uses. If I owned CycleOps, I would feel very uncomfortable about it. Has anyone heard of a case of leagal battle between the two over this issue?

well.. it seems you and sherpa have a PINARELLO opera; a steel frame. the opera brand, otoh, has no steel in it's line up. confusing? yeah. quite..

well.. it seems you and sherpa have a PINARELLO opera; a steel frame. the opera brand, otoh, has no steel in it's line up. confusing? yeah. quite..

Yes, yes. Absolutely right Colker. I noted that in my post. In a way, it's really not relevant to this thread except that the original poster was talking about hte lack of panache with Opera and asked if other people felt that way. As dumb as it is, I like the Opera brand more (panache wise) because I had such a great experience with the PINARELLO opera. Opera never made a steel bike, even.

It's one of those things, I guess but marketing perception is what we're talking about and however the manufacturer gets it across is part of the game.