Well, not yet. But why not? But it does raise a question. I just read about a judge who has allowed manslaughter charges to be brought against a clinic that accidentally destroyed a family's eggs. If life begins at conception, then why aren't they out there protesting proceedures like IVF (in vitro fertilization). I mean in that proceedure 8-15 eggs are fertilized and only the top 3-4 are actually implanted.
Far, far more potential babies are destroyed during the fertility proceedure than at a abortion center. Lets not even go to he whole aspect of discarding unwanted eggs.

I await a picket line. If not the only explanation is that these people prefer to hit their victims at their most vulnerable.

Good point. As a younger conservative, I feel that the Republican party needs to distance itself from the "abortion debate". The hyporacy that both parties show on a consitant bases is very upsetting because each sticks to a "party line".

As a conservative I believe in less government, yet the Republican party is trying to shove more government into this issue. I'm sorry I tend to belive that its not the government nor anyone else business. So I pretty much agree with my friends on the left on this particular issue. :eek:

Well, not yet. But why not? But it does raise a question. I just read about a judge who has allowed manslaughter charges to be brought against a clinic that accidentally destroyed a family's eggs. If life begins at conception, then why aren't they out there protesting proceedures like IVF (in vitro fertilization). I mean in that proceedure 8-15 eggs are fertilized and only the top 3-4 are actually implanted.
Far, far more potential babies are destroyed during the fertility proceedure than at a abortion center. Lets not even go to he whole aspect of discarding unwanted eggs.

I await a picket line. If not the only explanation is that these people prefer to hit their victims at their most vulnerable.

IVF is okay because it's for rich people and the kids won't need welfare/food stamps.

Yes that was sarcasm. I'm totally with you on this, been railing on about it for months.

Well, not yet. But why not?
I await a picket line. If not the only explanation is that these people prefer to hit their victims at their most vulnerable.

One word: Hypocrites

Obviously for the radical right, the right to life is subjective.

As I've said before, a picture of a cryovial in the biohazard trash doesn't pack much of an emotional wallop.

and how many Fundie Cons have used IVF? I'm sure they thnak god for the 'miracle' of their child. In fact they have a body count higher than most 'low income, use abortion for birth control stereotypes' they squak about. I hope on judgement day the Lord points this out a condemns them to hell not for their attitudes but for their hypocracy.

and how many Fundie Cons have used IVF? I'm sure they thnak god for the 'miracle' of their child. In fact they have a body count higher than most 'low income, use abortion for birth control stereotypes' they squak about. I hope on judgement day the Lord points this out a condemns them to hell not for their attitudes but for their hypocracy.
I don't see no Neocon "Squakin' " here, just libbies so far.

I don't see no Neocon "Squakin' " here, just libbies so far.

Address the issue. Oh, wait, being a right wing hack makes it very difficult for you do actually do that. Try, a simple question was asked, and perhaps you could enlighten all us "squakin libbies" why y'all are so damn hypocritical.

I'm sure they slept during that part of high school debate class

Address the issue. Oh, wait, being a right wing hack makes it very difficult for you do actually do that. Try, a simple question was asked, and perhaps you could enlighten all us "squakin libbies" why y'all are so damn hypocritical.
Hell, I don't know. I honestly didn't see anything about this thread I thought needed or deserved an answer. It's just squakin. Obviously you feel it is relevant and those hated neocons don't. That was the width and breadth of my comment. Kinda shallow.

are you a pro lifer, life begins at conception?
if so then you must be anti IVF as it causes a ton of 'murders' of innocent 'people' (read: blastocysts)
the fact that none of you have the nerve to comment on this point shows volumes.

any right to lifer / life begins at conception but used IVF out there?
How ya feeling? any out there have the ball$ enough to admit they've done this (IVF) and are share this stance on where life begins? Care to share your feelings knowing you've sentenced somewhere between 20-40 Children to death by bleach? Are you praying for forgiveness?
hmm I think this is where the 'judge ye not' stuff becomes very relevant.


any right to lifer / life begins at conception types out there wanna comment?

if the Fundie Cons have there way and the Supreme Court rules to this definition
In Vitro clinics will be closed as well. comment?

explains why so many of the RR have a hard time getting pregnant.

(no ball$)

are you a pro lifer, life begins at conception?
if so then you must be anti IVF as it causes a ton of 'murders' of innocent 'people' (read: blastocysts)
the fact that none of you have the nerve to comment on this point shows volumes.

any right to lifer / life begins at conception but used IVF out there?
How ya feeling? any out there have the ball$ enough to admit they've done this (IVF) and are share this stance on where life begins? Care to share your feelings knowing you've sentenced somewhere between 20-40 Children to death by bleach? Are you praying for forgiveness?
hmm I think this is where the 'judge ye not' stuff becomes very relevant.


any right to lifer / life begins at conception types out there wanna comment?

if the Fundie Cons have there way and the Supreme Court rules to this definition
In Vitro clinics will be closed as well. comment?
I don't hide behind some high sounding phrase, I'm anti abortion. I believe abortion is wrong. I don't think that precludes believing in the death penalty and I have no position on invitro fertilization. Once the embryo is implanted, it should go to term unless the morthers life is threatened. I believe abortion is proper to save the mothers life, in cases of rape or incest, that is the choice of the mother. I do not believe in abortion as birth control. I think this whole invitro argument is stupid and irrelavant to the abortion issue.

if 'life begins at conception' then it is completely relevant.
this point is also the basis behind stem cell research.
Our President said "you shouldn't have to take a life to save one"
so it follows that "you shouldn't have to take a life to make one"
all cells are fertilized at IVF clinics. when people are done having kids via this route they've already 'killed' about 30 'lifes'. but there are usually leftovers.
what to you makes more sense, giving them a nice bleach wash or using them to cure a number of diseases? either way they are destroyed one with no outcome, the other with boundless opportunuties.
it's relevance is key to the whole debate.
also for those who believe it begins at conception every blastocycst is therefore sacred.
you've already drawn a line, 'once it's implanted'.
do you know what culling is? once again if you do, we again have muder via IVF.
lemme know if you need that explained.

if 'life begins at conception' then it is completely relevant.
this point is also the basis behind stem cell research.
Our President said "you shouldn't have to take a life to save one"
so it follows that "you shouldn't have to take a life to make one"
all cells are fertilized at IVF clinics. when people are done having kids via this route they've already 'killed' about 30 'lifes'. but there are usually leftovers.
what to you makes more sense, giving them a nice bleach wash or using them to cure a number of diseases? either way they are destroyed one with no outcome, the other with boundless opportunuties.
it's relevance is key to the whole debate.
also for those who believe it begins at conception every blastocycst is therefore sacred.
you've already drawn a line, 'once it's implanted'.
do you know what culling is? once again if you do, we again have muder via IVF.
lemme know if you need that explained.
You are rehashing all the ethical questions that were raised over this process in the beginning. I have already told you, I consider killing a baby in it's mothers womb to be wrong and the conditions in which I believe it is up to the mother. I still have no position on the procedure you are describing. It is possible you are absolutely right and the new Supreme Court will ban the process. I can accept the decision on it as I have accepted the abortion issue. I am not an activist but will vote my conscience when given the opportunity.

What's next with these mutants - laws against tossing out your used condom? Arresting women for losing eggs during menstruation?
.
.

during IVF doctors implant a number of fertilized embryos in hopes that one will hold. many times more than 1 hold (reason so many twins etc.. are born this way) sometimes there are 3 or more that hold and the doctor culls (removes 2-3) to reduce # to 1 or 2.
so those are in the womb, therefore an abortion, therefore ban!

during IVF doctors implant a number of fertilized embryos in hopes that one will hold. many times more than 1 hold (reason so many twins etc.. are born this way) sometimes there are 3 or more that hold and the doctor culls (removes 2-3) to reduce # to 1 or 2.
so those are in the womb, therefore an abortion, therefore ban!
Ok, ban that too. When we reverse Roe V Wade (and we will after the nuclear option) we'll put an end to this barbarism as well. all better now?

Snakebit, I respect you enough for taking the foray into this debate that I won't tear at your argument. It takes guts to sound off on this one because the deck is really stacked against you. What I don't respect are Moneyman and LIFELOVER who will write 4,000 words on why Clinton was the worst president ever but can't find a word to say about this.

So lets hear it Lifelover, you put that name in your handle, I don't think you bike, the only reason you are hear is to spew neocon propaganda, so put your best argument forward. Why don't you picket fertility clinics?

Snakebit, I respect you enough for taking the foray into this debate that I won't tear at your argument. It takes guts to sound off on this one because the deck is really stacked against you. What I don't respect are Moneyman and LIFELOVER who will write 4,000 words on why Clinton was the worst president ever but can't find a word to say about this.

So lets hear it Lifelover, you put that name in your handle, I don't think you bike, the only reason you are hear is to spew neocon propaganda, so put your best argument forward. Why don't you picket fertility clinics?

Show me where I wrote even 400 words on why Slick Willie sucked.

My stance on abortion is here Incubation Theory (http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=226001#post226001). I don't feel the need to repeat myself. This would hold true for IVF as well. Bleach um until there are other options.

I don't picket cause I don't really care enough to invest the time. I'm to busy caring for my family to help everyone else care for thiers.

:rolleyes:

... I don't think you bike ...

I don't think you puke. Because of biking anyway.

Lifelover, sorry if I don't follow you on a daily basis. Gee, how could I have made the mistake considering your politics and handle. But, I will actually admit I made the wrong assumption, something people should do here more often.

Lifelover, sorry if I don't follow you on a daily basis. Gee, how could I have made the mistake considering your politics and handle. But, I will actually admit I made the wrong assumption, something people should do here more often.

Rec rider only. 1st century will be this spring.

Mostly ride a FS K2 with semi slicks or a Cdale MTB SS geared for the road. Just purchased an Airborne Zeppelin (used). Should be fitted in a few weeks.


Would love to see more of it around here but don't have high hopes.

I Could post a link explaining how my handle is separate from my political views but I won't.

Do you puke intentionally?

well I guess that makes you Pro Abortion. If you are a 'incubatorist' by theory then you are Pro Abortion until about week 26 which is far over present limits. Most babies delivered before that date don't survive. First trimester are worthless without ole mom. 2nd tri don't fare much better. Now as far as your fetal transplant via technology, who's gonna pay?
The mom who wants out (doubtful) the mom to be? or the Gov'mnet?

well I guess that makes you Pro Abortion.

What it makes me is glad that I don't have to make that decision for myself or anyone else.

I mean for me, well my wife and I had an unplanned pregnancy and we Chose to have the child. That is our position, we're not dictating our ethics to the world.
as for whether it is a crime against God, well if so God will settle it, it isn't our job to judge (as our Fundie Con friends will remind us) we are men with a host of faults and Judge ye lest ye be judged. (they seem to forget this passage)

and how many Fundie Cons have used IVF? I'm sure they thnak god for the 'miracle' of their child. In fact they have a body count higher than most 'low income, use abortion for birth control stereotypes' they squak about. I hope on judgement day the Lord points this out a condemns them to hell not for their attitudes but for their hypocracy.

Which also brings us right into the stem cell research issue...

is relevant.
I mean if IVF stays legal, then 'at conception' isn't the issue. Since all blastocycsts are fertile, the ones that aren't used are discraded (bleach and garbage) wouldn't everyone rather they went to helping mankind vs tossed in the trash? I don't understand how a 'bleach abortion' is more sacred than using it to cure a variety of illness'.
I personally (again) think the reason most are against it is, they are ignorant of the facts.

I don't hide behind some high sounding phrase, I'm anti abortion. I believe abortion is wrong. I don't think that precludes believing in the death penalty and I have no position on invitro fertilization. Once the embryo is implanted, it should go to term unless the morthers life is threatened. I believe abortion is proper to save the mothers life, in cases of rape or incest, that is the choice of the mother. I do not believe in abortion as birth control. I think this whole invitro argument is stupid and irrelavant to the abortion issue.

pro life you'd link arms and prevent people from entering graveyards for burial - you could make up a sign - it could say "There are options."

I saw a priest on TV claim that we had to stick to "the hard scientific fact that life begins at conception." I thought it was a great idea to let science and religion mix and sent him a letter asking if I could borrow some communion wine and wafer after they had been blessed to test for the presence of Christ's DNA. I mean, if you are going to use science to support your dogma then you really can't just stop at one tennent.

He never responded for some reason.

I personally (again) think the reason most are against it is, they are ignorant of the facts.

I don't. I think the reason is simple blind allegiance to whatever position(s) the Religious Right/Republicans take, for fear of being kicked out or ridiculed as a non-believer in their "righteous" cause. One must toll the mark 100% or else it doesn't work.

a guy I work with got into a creationism debate the other night with a pastor and his son over drinks (bad decision#1). Got to Cain and Abel, so Cain kills Abel gets sent away. starts having kids, where'd his wife come from? no mention. Pastor assumes must be another child of Adam and Eve? My friend says 'well doesn't that make the entire human race the product of incest?" so this gets their dander up, words are exchanged and the pastors son sucker punches my co-worker (mistake #2) as my co worker is a 230 lb ex skinhead (not the Nazi kind, just a Punk). Needless to say Pastor's son had a nice evening in the hospital. No charges against my co worker as whole bar saw the sucker punch.

pro life you'd link arms and prevent people from entering graveyards for burial - you could make up a sign - it could say "There are options."
I hope that isn't your best shot.

I hope that isn't your best shot.

but it's my funniest...

a guy I work with got into a creationism debate the other night with a pastor and his son over drinks (bad decision#1). Got to Cain and Abel, so Cain kills Abel gets sent away. starts having kids, where'd his wife come from? no mention. Pastor assumes must be another child of Adam and Eve? My friend says 'well doesn't that make the entire human race the product of incest?" so this gets their dander up, words are exchanged and the pastors son sucker punches my co-worker (mistake #2) as my co worker is a 230 lb ex skinhead (not the Nazi kind, just a Punk). Needless to say Pastor's son had a nice evening in the hospital. No charges against my co worker as whole bar saw the sucker punch.

"Who was Cain's wife?" - one of the oldest and most aggravating conundrums in the Bible, especially for true believers. Betcha the pastor's son won't be having that discussion in a bar again for awhile.

that always kill me. if they only had boys (Cain and Abel) why didn't humanity end after them? "On the 7300th day god made some hot chix so Cain could get some"
besides the fact that Gen 1 is lifted w/ slight mods of the Gilgamesh's creation story.
Divine Word? uh God's been buster for being a plagiarist.

but it's my funniest...
I'm sure.

I'm sure.

let's hear your best abortion joke?

a guy I work with got into a creationism debate the other night with a pastor and his son over drinks (bad decision#1). Got to Cain and Abel, so Cain kills Abel gets sent away. starts having kids, where'd his wife come from? no mention. Pastor assumes must be another child of Adam and Eve? My friend says 'well doesn't that make the entire human race the product of incest?" so this gets their dander up, words are exchanged and the pastors son sucker punches my co-worker (mistake #2) as my co worker is a 230 lb ex skinhead (not the Nazi kind, just a Punk). Needless to say Pastor's son had a nice evening in the hospital. No charges against my co worker as whole bar saw the sucker punch.

Also, it's always fun to ask these types wether Adam and Eve had belly buttons.

Also, it's always fun to ask these types wether Adam and Eve had belly buttons.

Did They?

Did They?
maybe they had horns or were part of some alien race?

http://www.burlingtonnews.net/skulls.html

Did They?

Of course they did! They were born straight from apes, right? You tell me, Carblover.