I had to delete the Zero Gravity ripoff thread because the poster put up the dealer price on the products. This is a no, no. C'mon dealer insiders, let's respect the manufacturers.

francois

I had to delete the Zero Gravity ripoff thread because the poster put up the dealer price on the products. This is a no, no. C'mon dealer insiders, let's respect the manufacturers.

francois

censorship is even a bigger no, no.

censorship is even a bigger no, no.

Right.

fc

Right.

fc


couldn't you just have deleted the dealer price from the post?

What's wrong with consumer's knowing the dealer price? Happens every day in the auto world, for example.

Or, aren't we supposed to look behind the curtain? Of course, RBR has their ad sponsors to protect as well.

couldn't you just have deleted the dealer price from the post?

Two reasons: We do not edit posts. It just ain't good practice. The other thing is this whole post was about price... dealer price going up.

fc

What's wrong with consumer's knowing the dealer price? Happens every day in the auto world, for example.

Or, aren't we supposed to look behind the curtain? Of course, RBR has their ad sponsors to protect as well.

Dealer prices are a very sensitive issue in the bike market and in many, many industries. I understand the reasons why and I'd like to respect them.

Nice little stab there against our integrity AJS. That company has never given us a cent. However, I'd like to protect any manufacturer as well as consumer who is being abused.

Roadbikereview is far from being a profitable operation but maybe in time with the help of folks like you it will.

francois

Dealer prices are a very sensitive issue in the bike market and in many, many industries. I understand the reasons why and I'd like to respect them.

Nice little stab there against our integrity AJS. That company has never given us a cent. However, I'd like to protect any manufacturer as well as consumer who is being abused.

Roadbikereview is far from being a profitable operation but maybe in time with the help of folks like you it will.

francois


Not meant as a stab, just as a fact. Nothing 'personal' against you or ZG. I figured you guys have banner ad space here that you expect to be paid for to keep the site going.

I had to delete the Zero Gravity ripoff thread because the poster put up the dealer price on the products. This is a no, no. C'mon dealer insiders, let's respect the manufacturers.

francois
I see absolutely no reason why a public forum should protect manufacturers and/or dealers. They also would rather that we didn't know the actual weight of their products. Taboo also? This forum should be about knowledge. - TF

I see absolutely no reason why a public forum should protect manufacturers and/or dealers. They also would rather that we didn't know the actual weight of their products. Taboo also? This forum should be about knowledge. - TF

No, No, No, we can't have that because as they say: "Knowledge is power". Much better for the profit margin to keep The Great Unwashed in the dark.

No, No, No, we can't have that because as they say: "Knowledge is power". Much better for the profit margin to keep The Great Unwashed in the dark.

Apparently RBR doesn't want you to know how badly LBSs' are screwing you. Funny thing is, this "policy of not posting dealer prices" is not discussed in the "Terms of Use" listed at:

http://www.consumerreview.com/channels/consumerreview/data/main/terms.html

I suppose this could be a e-centives.com general policy. Sometimes I feel like a lab rat being studied by these huge corporations who monitor my every post and mouse-click. :)

Apparently RBR doesn't want you to know how badly LBSs' are screwing you. Funny thing is, this "policy of not posting dealer prices" is not discussed in the "Terms of Use" listed at:

http://www.consumerreview.com/channels/consumerreview/data/main/terms.html

I suppose this could be a e-centives.com general policy. Sometimes I feel like a lab rat being studied by these huge corporations who monitor my every post and mouse-click. :)

What do you think the "Reviews" section is for - our benefit so we know about more about bikes & parts? Nope.

It's a form of advertising for the companies that get their products reviewed - for free I might add - by us.

Two reasons: We do not edit posts. It just ain't good practice. The other thing is this whole post was about price... dealer price going up.

fc

it's not good practice to edit posts? ok, sounds reasonable to me ... but then it is OK to delete them wholesale? the least of all evils to me would have been to delete the para which stated the dealer price, or just delete the initial post in the thread.
I enquired on the thread if it was a violation of dealer agreements to post the dealer price. looks like it was. I respect that, and I am fine with the part about the dealer price being deleted. we aren't in the auto industry, and if you want to argue about whether dealer prices should be secret or not, you should start a whole new thread over on general. however, the rest of the thread contained some good discussion and should have been left alone. after all, the dealer price went up, but the MSRP went up too.

What do you think the "Reviews" section is for - our benefit so we know about more about bikes & parts? Nope.

It's a form of advertising for the companies that get their products reviewed - for free I might add - by us.

All part of the master plan for world domination. Of course, now that you discovered our plan, I am going to have to have you eliminated by our master assasin- red skin suit guy. He shows up at your house, and you laugh yourself to death.

Several companies may not be enjoying all the free advertising- see i.e. Spinergy. Unless its one of those youth things were bad means good, and shody construction means buy ten of them. I can't keep up with all these trends.

Off for my black helicopter ride. . .


:rolleyes:

I see absolutely no reason why a public forum should protect manufacturers and/or dealers. They also would rather that we didn't know the actual weight of their products. Taboo also? This forum should be about knowledge. - TF

without responding to whether or not we should be protecting manufacturers or dealers, Zero Gravity has been known to be (gasp) honest about their product weights. trust the obsessive-compulsive weight weenies at this site: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/listings/components.php?type=rimbrakes
Reynolds has also been pretty honest, Shimano and Campy are pretty accurate with their component weights.

All part of the master plan for world domination. Of course, now that you discovered our plan, I am going to have to have you eliminated by our master assasin- red skin suit guy. He shows up at your house, and you laugh yourself to death.

Several companies may not be enjoying all the free advertising- see i.e. Spinergy. Unless its one of those youth things were bad means good, and shody construction means buy ten of them. I can't keep up with all these trends.

Off for my black helicopter ride. . .


:rolleyes:

Well, you can crack wise all you want CH, but isn't what I said the real bottom line here?

Uhh...yep.

And I wouldn't be hinting around too much about tin hats and Kool-Aid if'n I were you. Didn't we already see that movie before? Hey, I'm just trying to play nice like I'm supposed to. ;)

Personally i´m not too bothered about knowing the dealer price or not (although more information is always better to have) - the price that interests me is the one i´m being charged at the LBS or website.
as for deleting the original thread because it goes against the manufacturer´s interest, well only two threads below this one is a thread started by francois some time ago, stating that look keo ti pedals are loads of money for little weight gain, and basically implying that they´re way too expensive and that no-one should even consider buying them over the cro-mo version. is this thread not against look's manufacturer interests????? how many people have bought the cro-mo pedal instead of the ti one because the founder of RBR said the ti ones are too expensive???? how much money have look lost because of this????? i know the situations are not the same (between the zg and look threads), but it all seems a bit hipocritical to me. i´m not saying that the look thread should be deleted too, but if you start deleting stuff because it goes against manufacturer's interests, then you´d have to delete half the threads on here.....

Personally i�m not too bothered about knowing the dealer price or not (although more information is always better to have) - the price that interests me is the one i�m being charged at the LBS or website.
as for deleting the original thread because it goes against the manufacturer�s interest, well only two threads below this one is a thread started by francois some time ago, stating that look keo ti pedals are loads of money for little weight gain, and basically implying that they�re way too expensive and that no-one should even consider buying them over the cro-mo version. is this thread not against look's manufacturer interests????? how many people have bought the cro-mo pedal instead of the ti one because the founder of RBR said the ti ones are too expensive???? how much money have look lost because of this????? i know the situations are not the same (between the zg and look threads), but it all seems a bit hipocritical to me. i�m not saying that the look thread should be deleted too, but if you start deleting stuff because it goes against manufacturer's interests, then you�d have to delete half the threads on here.....

It's not about manufacturer interests. I tell it like it is good or bad and I encourage you guys to do the same. Thousands of bad reviews and negative posts exist on this website that I created. That is fine. It helps me make better buying decisions. And I hope it has benefited you guys as well.

However, the issue of posting dealer prices violates a contract between the manufacturer and the dealer. It is not allowed and I suspect the manufacturer will pursue legal action against the poster. It was reported to me and I choose to respect that and do something about it.

We do not edit posts or reviews. We do not like changing the words of a user and more importantly, if we edit a review, we become liable for it's contents.

Finally, this is not a public, free-for-all-forum. This is a private website. It is controlled and moderated by me, Gregg and a few volunteers. We delete posts, we ban people, we respond to problems. I hate doing it and we try not to intervene but it is absolutely necessary.

This is the last I'll comment on this issue. Please email me directly if you have comments.

francois

...only two threads below this one is a thread started by francois some time ago, stating that look keo ti pedals are loads of money for little weight gain, and basically implying that they�re way too expensive and that no-one should even consider buying them over the cro-mo version. is this thread not against look's manufacturer interests?????

OTOH, credit must be given to francois for that post on the top Keo's. He was honest and forthcoming about it. We need more straight talk about products like that from the mods and the members as well.

AJS you ass kisser!!!

So much for the revolution =D

AJS you ass kisser!!!

So much for the revolution =D

Hey! Get OFF me, man!!

(Just laying some ground work for the future. It's PSYOPS, which I learned well in Army Intel. This revolution stuff gets complicated.)

Moderator's note:

As this thread has had it's run, I am going to go ahead and lock it down.

Any one wishing to further discuss the issue can start a new thread in the Site Issues forum.

I will leave this thread here for now, and add a link to the new thread if one is started.

Thanks,

Coolhand